My experience of transphobia today: "Ew, fucking gross, that's a man"
Said to my friend while we were minding our own business yesterday when walking from A to B in the city. For this old bigoted man that we happened to walk past, simply (gasp) looking at a trans person was too much for him. How dare she go outside while being transgender? Nope, gotta call that out! Gotta tell this stranger that I find her disgusting! That's super important and I am doing the right thing..!
At least, that's what I imagine his train of thought was like. Who knows.
Blows my mind that people can't just keep homophobia/transphobia to themselves. For reference, there was no pride event or anything, like we weren't dressed in kinky outfits, we weren't waving dildos around or something. Not that being dressed a certain way would have excused his behavior, but it's just to say we were wearing very normal clothing and looked decidedly ordinary and neutral. The only thing that revealed to this guy that my friend is trans is that she hasn't done voice training. She passes perfectly fine outside of that, and so do I - we've both been on hormones and transitioning for 3-4 years.
So perhaps the crime we committed was to make him think we weren't transgender? And then he heard her voice, and felt fooled? I suppose to him, it's the end of the world if he was accidentally attracted to a trans woman if even for a second.
My friend thankfully doesn't let this kind of stuff get to her. She grew up extremely conservative (her family still has a "don't ask, don't tell" policy for example) so she's always had nerves of steel to deal with everything, and I'm glad for her that she can shut this kind of stuff out. I really admire her for how strong she is and how she's able to always persevere. She's probably already forgotten about it but for me, I need to work on similarly not letting this stuff get to me. The man wasn't even talking to/about me but I think the reason I'm so upset about it is that it may just as well have been said to me.
I'm trying to focus on the good, and to not let one vile person ruin it. Because me and my friend had such a nice day together.
That is absolutely awful. I'm so sad this happened to you and your friend.
You shouldn't look for reason in transphobia. You did nothing wrong, and there is no reason for you to find in their behavior. This is hate and perversity. Pure and simple. They don't deserve your generous consideration.
Thank you. And that's very true - I wish it didn't get to me
I am sorry that this happened to you.
I am a straight white male. I've been learning a lot about my privilege, and one part of it is to be able to exist in public spaces without experiencing things like this. Because of that, I'm concerned that I might respond in a way that takes agency from the person being harassed, or even makes things less safe for them.
So I have a sincere question: If I am walking into the store and witness this, what is a response from me that would be helpful to you?
In this case where presumably the car is gone, my initial impulse is something like, "What an asshole. I hope you know everyone does not feel that way. Do you need anything?"
But if the person were still there, I would be less certain. I would be concerned that something I said would escalate the conflict, and whether to do that or not is something that should be your choice, not mine.
I am open to any suggestions if you or others with similar experiences are willing to share them.
All I can speak to are my feelings on the subject, and I'd appreciate someone expressing what you said. Or even just a simple "sorry about the asshole" kinda thing.
Even just mean looks at the guy being a dick is probably enough.
It really does. Reality is that it is one person in a hundred (probably less even) that will openly spout this hateful stuff, but it's enough to make you at best be on your guard all the time, and at worst become avoidant like you describe. It feels like death by a thousand cuts.. sorry you've had such experiences too.
I kinda went off about this here and here in the past week.
It's exhausting when you and the people close to you are all genuinely under attack. Even if just one in a hundred people says something hateful, and just one in a hundred of those people does something hateful, it's still too common for you or someone you know to be irreparably injured.
I bolded this because I really liked that add-on to it.
I have similarly, in recent years, become more and more disillusioned about many people around me - I suppose it is to an extent about the social contract/tolerance paradox, but I think it's more that my limit for bullshit is a lot smaller now. I used to be the type that said "let's not talk politics" if I disagreed too much with somebody. But nowadays I will be like "please let's talk about it" because then it's a shortcut to whether or not I should sort that person out or not..
But that may as well be a general thing about politics though, even 10 years ago, I feel like you could mostly agree to disagree and still be cool with each other. But now there are such huge differences between sides of the aisle that it's downright impossible - especially when queer - to be cool with somebody that argues that your existence should be forbidden. An extreme example is how one of my uncles believes homosexuality is so unnatural that we should all be sent to an island and not bother anyone else. Which, to anyone not familiar with Adolf Eichmann here's some light reading... So yeah, safe to say I am never going to be in the same room as him. Digressing a little bit here but it's interesting how our perspectives change.
I think it's important to remember that 99 of the 100 don't mind me, or at least just don't care. The focus is on the 1 though, even though the 1 is an extreme outlier that should not even be granted a second thought. But it really is difficult to focus on the good as I said in my original post. Something to work towards I guess.
Denying anyone's entitlement to human dignity1 is a line that should never be crossed. It's the foundation of modern human rights as set out in the 1948 U.N. Declaration. That declaration was a direct response to the Nazi atrocities of WWII in line with your Eichmann comment, as well as the preceding century of genocidal wars around the globe.
In my mind, tolerating a degrading, dehumanizing remark is a foot placed on that ski jump to secular Hell on earth, and it's my duty to warn someone away from the precipice. And yes, I can be just as self-righteous and moralizing as a religious person convinced their afterlife happiness is dependent on saving others from the "hell" of tolerance.
1 You can put too much effort into defining "human dignity". There's a useful history of the philosophy here.
I'm very sorry that happened to you and your friend.
Two very clumsy attempts to "look on the bright side":
I do think that that attitude, or at least the public display of such, is dying out quickly. Within one or two generations people will keep their thoughts to themselves and settle for just drunken rants or a mean look.
Maybe this kind of nonsense is part of being a woman. Many many many of us (I imagine probably nearly all of us actually) grew up with all kinds of insults hurled at us from the time we became "not a young child". It didn't matter whether we had breasts or no breasts, high or low voices, tall or short, or what we are wearing: we'll be called whores and "ew fucking gross" and variations. Once time, a man begging for change at the left turn curb got some money from me, and I wished him a nice day, then he looked inside my car and judged it to be free of a male passenger and then said some very ugly things. He clearly looked first.
Whatever reason he said that to you and your friend, he had first judged that you are not powerful like a man and that he could get away with it. If he thought that here are two men walking down the street who could punch him in the face twice before he hits the pavement, he wouldn't have said it.
If I had to speculate, he probably thought of some disgusting thing to say to two ladies ahead of time when he saw you from a distance, and then decided to switch out of extra malice and shame over his own lust.
I hope I don't come across as dismissive of this awful event....but rather......welcome to the club: as a fellow woman I get it. Even within my lifetime things have gotten safer for women a little, and it is my sincere wish that it would become much safer for all women, especially the most vulnerable among us, as quickly as possible.
Not clumsy at all, thank you for this comment. I do sometimes wish I was a big 2 meter 100 kg man with tattoos etc just so I could talk back to people like this. And be without fear when shushing people in the cinema too.
It's rather absurd that the experience you describe in your second point is considered relatively normal. I hear it so often from people that grew up as girls that they start getting cat called at 10 or 12, and then it more or less stops when they're in their 20s... Perverts prey on the weak. And somehow in a weird twisted roundabout way, I'm glad this guy maybe saw me and my friend as weak? If that makes sense at all, for the world we live in.
I do think it's going in the right direction because as awful as it still feels to get stared at (sometimes people's heads turn to continue to stare at me which ugh), I'd certainly much rather have that. And thanks for the welcome however I would like to cancel my membership lol
Lolol me too .... :')
How are you feeling about the incident today?
I'm okay. There was a worse incident the next day with my father which kind of took over the mental space. So I think this one has been sort of added to the pile and filed away with other similar incidents.. but thank you for checking in! That's really kind
It always makes me sad and angry when people experience hate.
Wishing the best for you and your friend
Thank you <3
I'm so sorry you and your friend had to endure that behavior. I've been on the receiving end of it, and listened to the same kind of bigotry when out and about with friends or colleagues of different races, gender or sexuality presentations, ages, accents, apparent socioeconomic or immigration status, religious attire... You name a discernable human variation, and there's now nearly always someone who'll loudly broadcast their offense about it.
I'd commented on norm policing, and these self-appointed defenders of boundaries are just plainly and simply, assholes. They make everyone's experience of the world worse, to no justifiable end.
I think about the right of self-expression, and its boundaries. What kinds of self-expression are good for the community as a whole, what's neutral/unavoidable, and what's negative. There's a whole realm of politeness, the socially mediated expressions which are acceptable/unacceptable. [In political terms, this is the Overton window.]
The nasty people are trying to recategorize ordinary politeness and decency as "wokeness", to remove their obligation to treat other people as human beings equally deserving of public respect. Freedom of expression now includes a lot of fists meeting noses (as in, "your freedom to swing your fist should end before it hits my nose").
However much I try to extend my compassion and understand the ways in which I or others might be giving offense, there is no justification for their behavior which is compatible with a pluralistic civil society and fundamental human rights. Go in the world with confidence that right and justice are on your side.
Well, when I am in traffic I can keep saying that I have the right of way, and I will be right all the way until somebody thinks otherwise and drives into me. And also, I saw this in a comment under a video of Florida nazis yesterday (took me like 15 minutes to find it again omg)
"I wear my pride shirt because I’m proud and a shirt over it because I’m smart".
I have little else to add to your comment except thank you for taking the time to write it! Indeed, stick out from the perceived norm and you're bound to find someone who disagrees with whatever you're doing.
I'm sorry that happened to your friend OP, but it would be nice if we could have thread titles that are not straight up transphobia. Because just scrolling by and reading that can be upsetting.
I think we need to see upsetting things from time to time. It's important to show people what different communities have to deal with just for the crime of existing.
You're right, I'm sorry :(
Can't change it now, I think only admins can edit post titles
Suggest a new title and I can switch it out for you.
I've made an intermediate change for @Smoontjes, until she can think of something better.
I was away all day sorry. Thank you for editing it, your version is fine with me
I don't think your title needs changing.
Most likely, he thought that a pair of girls wouldn't punch him on the nose.
The passerby didn't see a pair of girls. The passerby obviously thought at least one of the people he saw was a man - hence the rude comment "that's a man". Therefore, we know that, in his eyes, there wasn't a pair of girls present.