First off, I should say that I'm coming at this as an autistic white male. As such, I visually fit many of the stereotypes of the 'successful white male' but once the autism is found out, either...
Exemplary
First off, I should say that I'm coming at this as an autistic white male. As such, I visually fit many of the stereotypes of the 'successful white male' but once the autism is found out, either through my own confession or a series of involuntary slip ups in my masking, things turn very different.
Imposter syndrome took a fairly universal feeling of discomfort, second-guessing, and mild anxiety in the workplace and pathologized it.
First off, Imposter syndrome is not recognized as anything pathological. Its not even in the DSM. It is just what the author describes it as, a (more concise) name for a fairly universal feeling of discomfort, second guessing, and mild anxiety in the workplace. It has never been pathologized outside of pop psychology magazines.
As white men progress, their feelings of doubt usually abate as their work and intelligence are validated over time.
I know anecdotal evidence doesn't disprove a theory, and I am yet young enough that I may not have reached this stage yet, but several of my family members have had imposter syndrome caused depressive episodes that put them out of work for weeks. My uncle, a upper management businessman, still hasn't been able to return to work because of it. Imposter syndrome can appear with or without others doubting your abilities. While I know that systemic biases can make it worse, it can also be completely self contained, especially for people with mental health issues.
The label of imposter syndrome is a heavy load to bear. “Imposter” brings a tinge of criminal fraudulence to the feeling of simply being unsure or anxious about joining a new team or learning a new skill.
It is supposed to remind you of criminal fraudulence, because that is what it feels like. You doubt yourself, feel like your ripping off the company by demanding your paycheck even though you feel your skills are worthless. Your terrified that those around you will find out and oust you. The fraudulent connotation is entirely intentional, not because one is a fraud, but because someone feels like a fraud.
Add to that the medical undertone of “syndrome,” which recalls the “female hysteria” diagnoses of the nineteenth century.
So this is one of the big gripes I have about this article. Its written like imposter syndrome only persistently occurs in women, and as such is a women's 'disorder'. It is not. I'm not sure why it irritates me so much, but it reminds me of all the resources I have tried to go through as an adult with autism only to be met with a brick wall when the adult part comes up. This article acts like imposter syndrome only affects one demographic when in reality it is a fairly universal phenomenon, just like many organizations and even individuals act like autism is something that only exists in kids.
We often falsely equate confidence — most often, the type demonstrated by white male leaders — with competence and leadership. Employees who can’t (or won’t) conform to male-biased social styles are told they have imposter syndrome.
Forewarning, this section goes a bit beyond just this article to a slight problem I have with gender studies as a whole. Keep in mind I have no formal education in the field apart from some literature classes I took for my liberal arts associates degree at community college (working on my CS degree now, not much gender studies there). I am more speaking as someone who comes across these articles regular and reads them in full.
I am... uncomfortable to say the least about the stereotype that has emerged around 'white males'.
A more precise term, and the one that I use, is 'toxic masculinity', Why is 'white male' a bad term for the sets of behavior that critical gender theory refers to when it uses that phrase? Because it is a stereotype, one that not all, and Id even argue a minority of, white men fit into. Furthermore, it is a stereotype used to designate or refer to harmful and toxic behavior. The same behavior that some in academia assign to 'white males' often harms men, white included, that don't fit into the 'white male' stereotype. I changed college degrees because the industry I was going into was dominated by 'white male' behaviors and practices, despite being headed by a young woman.
Heck, just look at the language in the article. Women are referred to as just that, women. As they should be. (this is outside the reference to female hysteria, where the clinical 'female' reminds us of the time when women were viewed as less human.) A quick grep shows us 1 female to 37 women. On the other hand, men are almost always referred to as 'males', a more clinical, less human noun. Searching for ' men ' (with spaces, or you get a lot of 'women' gives us 2 men to 5 males. As seemingly inconsequential as these words seem, they do have meaning, and using 'female' as a noun to refer to women is generally frowned upon. Why is 'male' to refer to men more popular in diversity related writing?
I guess what I am trying to say is that as a white male that does not fit into the mold of 'white male', the stereotype that seems to have been adopted by academia is harmful to people, in the same way feminine and racial stereotypes are harmful.
Imposter syndrome is especially prevalent in biased, toxic cultures that value individualism and overwork.
This is what I do agree with with the article. My fundamental disagreement is the cause of that culture. I would postulate that it is not any inherent masculine trait that causes it (Come on people? what happened to gender being a social construct!) and more the perverse incentives offered by our incredibly profit oriented capitalistic culture.
It sounds more like you have a problem with pop gender studies than actual gender studies. "Toxic masculinity" comes from academia. They'll also always point out that it hurts men. Likewise with...
It sounds more like you have a problem with pop gender studies than actual gender studies. "Toxic masculinity" comes from academia. They'll also always point out that it hurts men. Likewise with using less clinical language for people and using similar language for men and women.
I would postulate that it is not any inherent masculine trait that causes it (Come on people? what happened to gender being a social construct!)
If gender is a social construct, then masculinity is one as well, right? I'd say valuing overwork and excessive individualism are both traits of a kind of toxic masculinity.
I just want to chime in with more anecdotal evidence. I've been working in web development my entire adult life (in my 30s now) and I am constantly struggling with fear, doubt, and anxiety about...
I know anecdotal evidence doesn't disprove a theory, and I am yet young enough that I may not have reached this stage yet, but several of my family members have had imposter syndrome caused depressive episodes that put them out of work for weeks.
I just want to chime in with more anecdotal evidence. I've been working in web development my entire adult life (in my 30s now) and I am constantly struggling with fear, doubt, and anxiety about my abilities. I've been gradually moving upwards in my career the whole time and despite regular raises, glowing reviews, and being praised for my work I'm terrified I'm not good enough. One day someone's going to realize I'm shit at my job and can me. Every once in a while I get handed a project that really puts me through my paces. I mean it really challenges me (which is great, that's how we learn!), but I just shutdown because the fear and doubt creep up around me and send me into a depressive spiral for a few days or weeks until I'm able to talk myself down.
There's absolutely no logical reason I should be like this. On paper I'm a good developer and a great employee, but it's never enough for my anxiety and depression. I've got years of challenges conquered and survived under my belt, but the imposter syndrome still happens.
Bipolar white male here myself, and I agree with everything you said. I think a large quantity of men (especially white men as generally addressed in articles like this one) don't fall into the...
Bipolar white male here myself, and I agree with everything you said. I think a large quantity of men (especially white men as generally addressed in articles like this one) don't fall into the mold they are cast into. Sure, we might look the part, and even benefit from doing so because of sexist/racist management. We have just as many doubts and insecurities as anybody else, but given our average emotional repression, have trouble seeking help for them.
Problem being that even if 80% of men feel this way, progress won't be made on these fronts unless we're willing to call out the other 20% on their bullshit. That's really hard to do when the person you need to call out can ruin your life.
Imposter syndrome affects everyone, and the anxiety can be tremendous. One of my manic episodes resulting in involuntary hospitalization was triggered in part due to that feeling.
Don't get me wrong, this does not hold me back from calling them out on their BS. (no, the thing that holds me back is the specter of homelessness.) I just prefer to use somewhat less generalizing...
Don't get me wrong, this does not hold me back from calling them out on their BS. (no, the thing that holds me back is the specter of homelessness.) I just prefer to use somewhat less generalizing language while doing so.
I, personally, prefer the term Toxic Masculinity.
[...] If I could highlight just two sentences in this article it's these two. I don't want to generalize too much here, but I think this is a problem with a lot of our take on phenomena like...
Even as we know it today, imposter syndrome puts the blame on individuals, without accounting for the historical and cultural contexts that are foundational to how it manifests in both women of color and white women.
[...]
Rather than focus on fixing imposter syndrome, professionals whose identities have been marginalized and discriminated against must experience a cultural shift writ large.
If I could highlight just two sentences in this article it's these two. I don't want to generalize too much here, but I think this is a problem with a lot of our take on phenomena like "burnout" and "imposter syndrome" and hell even more clinically defined things like depression: the causes are more systemic than we like to admit. But more and more the onus is on the individual to fix themselves with conferences, books, meditation, medication, self-care, wellness, etc. Pitching an individual solution to a social or systemic problem really makes it less likely the underlying problem will ever be actually addressed, because then if you're burnt out or feeling like an imposter, it's on you to overcome as an individual. Then, to blame the problem on a bad environment (especially if you are a member of a minority group) is seen as a kind of cop-out or personal failure or in the worst case, to "play the [minority group] card".
I think a lot of people are made uncomfortable when asked to understand these things as systemic issues, or acknowledge that they may have a systemic component - especially if related to a sensitive issue like sex or race. The reasons why are certainly complex and not something I would like to get into specifically right now, frankly. But it really did give me something to think about - that what some people call "imposter sydrome" might just be someone reacting rationally to be treated like an outsider in a work culture that does not really accept them, and that generally this will happen more often with people who are not aligned with the cultural majority of their workplace.
Tell your female BIPOC coworker that's all it is, and back her up, if that's the case. You want to foster an inclusive environment? Support your "diverse" coworkers. If the issue is a race or...
Tell your female BIPOC coworker that's all it is, and back her up, if that's the case. You want to foster an inclusive environment? Support your "diverse" coworkers. If the issue is a race or gender issue, address it, but a lot of the time there's also just the internal component of somebody lacking confidence in their abilities, not because of some sort of internalized misogyny or racism, but a good old-fashioned lack of self esteem. Fixing one will not eliminate the possibility and reality of the other.
The article is swinging the social justice hammer at a largely self-esteem nail here. If there is an issue of gender bias or race causing one to not be confident in their work, this isn't something you'd call "imposter syndrome." This is racism and/or sexism.
As some of the others pointed out....it's hard to do when the environment that fosters these feelings also tends to be punishing talking about those feelings. I work in an IT department where men,...
Tell your female BIPOC coworker that's all it is, and back her up, if that's the case. You want to foster an inclusive environment? Support your "diverse" coworkers.
As some of the others pointed out....it's hard to do when the environment that fosters these feelings also tends to be punishing talking about those feelings.
I work in an IT department where men, especially white men, are a minority. There's none of the sexism or racism. But you know what is there? An incredibly toxic workplace. Because workplace toxicity transcends diversity and inclusion.
The workplace is usually a heirarchy, and that breeds toxicity.
First off, I should say that I'm coming at this as an autistic white male. As such, I visually fit many of the stereotypes of the 'successful white male' but once the autism is found out, either through my own confession or a series of involuntary slip ups in my masking, things turn very different.
First off, Imposter syndrome is not recognized as anything pathological. Its not even in the DSM. It is just what the author describes it as, a (more concise) name for a fairly universal feeling of discomfort, second guessing, and mild anxiety in the workplace. It has never been pathologized outside of pop psychology magazines.
I know anecdotal evidence doesn't disprove a theory, and I am yet young enough that I may not have reached this stage yet, but several of my family members have had imposter syndrome caused depressive episodes that put them out of work for weeks. My uncle, a upper management businessman, still hasn't been able to return to work because of it.
Imposter syndrome can appear with or without others doubting your abilities. While I know that systemic biases can make it worse, it can also be completely self contained, especially for people with mental health issues.
It is supposed to remind you of criminal fraudulence, because that is what it feels like. You doubt yourself, feel like your ripping off the company by demanding your paycheck even though you feel your skills are worthless. Your terrified that those around you will find out and oust you. The fraudulent connotation is entirely intentional, not because one is a fraud, but because someone feels like a fraud.
So this is one of the big gripes I have about this article. Its written like imposter syndrome only persistently occurs in women, and as such is a women's 'disorder'. It is not. I'm not sure why it irritates me so much, but it reminds me of all the resources I have tried to go through as an adult with autism only to be met with a brick wall when the adult part comes up. This article acts like imposter syndrome only affects one demographic when in reality it is a fairly universal phenomenon, just like many organizations and even individuals act like autism is something that only exists in kids.
Forewarning, this section goes a bit beyond just this article to a slight problem I have with gender studies as a whole. Keep in mind I have no formal education in the field apart from some literature classes I took for my liberal arts associates degree at community college (working on my CS degree now, not much gender studies there). I am more speaking as someone who comes across these articles regular and reads them in full.
I am... uncomfortable to say the least about the stereotype that has emerged around 'white males'.
A more precise term, and the one that I use, is 'toxic masculinity', Why is 'white male' a bad term for the sets of behavior that critical gender theory refers to when it uses that phrase? Because it is a stereotype, one that not all, and Id even argue a minority of, white men fit into. Furthermore, it is a stereotype used to designate or refer to harmful and toxic behavior. The same behavior that some in academia assign to 'white males' often harms men, white included, that don't fit into the 'white male' stereotype. I changed college degrees because the industry I was going into was dominated by 'white male' behaviors and practices, despite being headed by a young woman.
Heck, just look at the language in the article. Women are referred to as just that, women. As they should be. (this is outside the reference to female hysteria, where the clinical 'female' reminds us of the time when women were viewed as less human.) A quick grep shows us 1 female to 37 women. On the other hand, men are almost always referred to as 'males', a more clinical, less human noun. Searching for ' men ' (with spaces, or you get a lot of 'women' gives us 2 men to 5 males. As seemingly inconsequential as these words seem, they do have meaning, and using 'female' as a noun to refer to women is generally frowned upon. Why is 'male' to refer to men more popular in diversity related writing?
I guess what I am trying to say is that as a white male that does not fit into the mold of 'white male', the stereotype that seems to have been adopted by academia is harmful to people, in the same way feminine and racial stereotypes are harmful.
This is what I do agree with with the article. My fundamental disagreement is the cause of that culture. I would postulate that it is not any inherent masculine trait that causes it (Come on people? what happened to gender being a social construct!) and more the perverse incentives offered by our incredibly profit oriented capitalistic culture.
It sounds more like you have a problem with pop gender studies than actual gender studies. "Toxic masculinity" comes from academia. They'll also always point out that it hurts men. Likewise with using less clinical language for people and using similar language for men and women.
If gender is a social construct, then masculinity is one as well, right? I'd say valuing overwork and excessive individualism are both traits of a kind of toxic masculinity.
I just want to chime in with more anecdotal evidence. I've been working in web development my entire adult life (in my 30s now) and I am constantly struggling with fear, doubt, and anxiety about my abilities. I've been gradually moving upwards in my career the whole time and despite regular raises, glowing reviews, and being praised for my work I'm terrified I'm not good enough. One day someone's going to realize I'm shit at my job and can me. Every once in a while I get handed a project that really puts me through my paces. I mean it really challenges me (which is great, that's how we learn!), but I just shutdown because the fear and doubt creep up around me and send me into a depressive spiral for a few days or weeks until I'm able to talk myself down.
There's absolutely no logical reason I should be like this. On paper I'm a good developer and a great employee, but it's never enough for my anxiety and depression. I've got years of challenges conquered and survived under my belt, but the imposter syndrome still happens.
Bipolar white male here myself, and I agree with everything you said. I think a large quantity of men (especially white men as generally addressed in articles like this one) don't fall into the mold they are cast into. Sure, we might look the part, and even benefit from doing so because of sexist/racist management. We have just as many doubts and insecurities as anybody else, but given our average emotional repression, have trouble seeking help for them.
Problem being that even if 80% of men feel this way, progress won't be made on these fronts unless we're willing to call out the other 20% on their bullshit. That's really hard to do when the person you need to call out can ruin your life.
Imposter syndrome affects everyone, and the anxiety can be tremendous. One of my manic episodes resulting in involuntary hospitalization was triggered in part due to that feeling.
Don't get me wrong, this does not hold me back from calling them out on their BS. (no, the thing that holds me back is the specter of homelessness.) I just prefer to use somewhat less generalizing language while doing so.
I, personally, prefer the term Toxic Masculinity.
I agree, and the homlessness is what i was referring to.
Can't call your boss toxic if it'll put you on the street.
[...]
If I could highlight just two sentences in this article it's these two. I don't want to generalize too much here, but I think this is a problem with a lot of our take on phenomena like "burnout" and "imposter syndrome" and hell even more clinically defined things like depression: the causes are more systemic than we like to admit. But more and more the onus is on the individual to fix themselves with conferences, books, meditation, medication, self-care, wellness, etc. Pitching an individual solution to a social or systemic problem really makes it less likely the underlying problem will ever be actually addressed, because then if you're burnt out or feeling like an imposter, it's on you to overcome as an individual. Then, to blame the problem on a bad environment (especially if you are a member of a minority group) is seen as a kind of cop-out or personal failure or in the worst case, to "play the [minority group] card".
I think a lot of people are made uncomfortable when asked to understand these things as systemic issues, or acknowledge that they may have a systemic component - especially if related to a sensitive issue like sex or race. The reasons why are certainly complex and not something I would like to get into specifically right now, frankly. But it really did give me something to think about - that what some people call "imposter sydrome" might just be someone reacting rationally to be treated like an outsider in a work culture that does not really accept them, and that generally this will happen more often with people who are not aligned with the cultural majority of their workplace.
Tell your female BIPOC coworker that's all it is, and back her up, if that's the case. You want to foster an inclusive environment? Support your "diverse" coworkers. If the issue is a race or gender issue, address it, but a lot of the time there's also just the internal component of somebody lacking confidence in their abilities, not because of some sort of internalized misogyny or racism, but a good old-fashioned lack of self esteem. Fixing one will not eliminate the possibility and reality of the other.
The article is swinging the social justice hammer at a largely self-esteem nail here. If there is an issue of gender bias or race causing one to not be confident in their work, this isn't something you'd call "imposter syndrome." This is racism and/or sexism.
As some of the others pointed out....it's hard to do when the environment that fosters these feelings also tends to be punishing talking about those feelings.
I work in an IT department where men, especially white men, are a minority. There's none of the sexism or racism. But you know what is there? An incredibly toxic workplace. Because workplace toxicity transcends diversity and inclusion.
The workplace is usually a heirarchy, and that breeds toxicity.
Agree. Exhibit One: All the white male people with imposter syndrome.
woops, @deimos can you fix the title to just "Stop Telling Women They Have Imposter Syndrome"
feel free to noise this comment
fixed
p.s. You can ping all the curators with title editing in the Discord using
@Curator: Titles