This video is actually a part two of a conversation based on the book Guns, Germs, and Steel. The first part is worth a watch as well! The book itself is slightly controversial, not least since...
This video is actually a part two of a conversation based on the book Guns, Germs, and Steel. The first part is worth a watch as well!
The book itself is slightly controversial, not least since the author's background was initially in biochemistry and ornithology, rather than history (although he is now a professor of geography). Regardless, the book attempts to draw a view of history as a series of inevitabilities based on geography and on how the natural world shook out, and removes a significant portion of human agency from the "narrative." He's a compelling writer, and the book is definitely worth a read, but with a critical eye.
CGP Grey meanwhile, continues to produce excellent educational content, and I encourage folks to watch some of his other work if they haven't. He releases sparingly, but the work is consistently high-quality, well-researched, and quite witty.
Slightly controversial is an understatement. Many historians absolutely rip into Jared Diamond on it. Just go over to r/AskHistorians and search for some examples.
Slightly controversial is an understatement. Many historians absolutely rip into Jared Diamond on it. Just go over to r/AskHistorians and search for some examples.
To be fair, academics like to rip into anyone who is actually popular. I don’t even necessarily agree with the narrative he articulates, but I think bashing Diamond has become something of a meme...
To be fair, academics like to rip into anyone who is actually popular. I don’t even necessarily agree with the narrative he articulates, but I think bashing Diamond has become something of a meme among historians in the same way people loved to hate on Twilight. Yeah it’s got its issues and I get that it’s frustrating that it gets on the lecture circuit/best seller lists when you think there’s so much worthier work out there. But let’s not lie to ourselves and pretend there isn’t a decent amount of pettiness underlying it.
I do agree that historians (and scientists, and engineers, and academics more generally. Noticing a theme here…) need to be better at communicating to the general public. Folks like Diamond fill a...
I do agree that historians (and scientists, and engineers, and academics more generally. Noticing a theme here…) need to be better at communicating to the general public. Folks like Diamond fill a void for people who want to learn but are put off by highly technical/specific journal articles.
CGP GREY is posting absolutely tyrannical descriptions of the domestication process. His explanation is incredibly vulgar! He says zebras have brains like little grey lumps and that they "lack a...
CGP GREY is posting absolutely tyrannical descriptions of the domestication process. His explanation is incredibly vulgar! He says zebras have brains like little grey lumps and that they "lack a family structure" and that makes them unsuitable. He calls them crappy horses. He literally flashes the phrase "exploit family values" on screen. It's such a triumphalist screed. I think humans have a profoundly selfish sense of their relationship with animals and I won't stand for it! Have you watched factory farm videos? I'm telling you, they convert the viewer instantaneously. It's horrible what we're doing and we need to change course.
To clarify: Is this sarcastic, or are you really upset with how CGP grey talks about the topic? 'Cause I'm reading his tone here as flippant and joking, while also talking relatively factually...
To clarify: Is this sarcastic, or are you really upset with how CGP grey talks about the topic? 'Cause I'm reading his tone here as flippant and joking, while also talking relatively factually about the reasons history happened as it did, not placing value or judgement on it.
He's not saying Zebras are Horses, just worse. Within the very clear context of the video, what he's saying is: Zebras are worse than horses for domestication. He's also talking quite positively (riding a bear would be awesome!) about those species that didn't make the cut.
His tone is more than flippant, it is smug! I believe he is entirely sincere about the value proposition he is describing. I bet he also believes we're in a great golden age of successfully...
His tone is more than flippant, it is smug! I believe he is entirely sincere about the value proposition he is describing. I bet he also believes we're in a great golden age of successfully engineered people. I'm sure you would agree that no bear in the history of bears has ever wished that a human would climb on its back. If you haven't seen the factory farms, I repeat, they are extremely convincing.
… Are you serious? I'm going to ask the same thing @vektor asked: Is this all sarcastic? If it's not, please watch the video you linked without assuming ill intent from the get go. CGPGrey isn't...
… Are you serious? I'm going to ask the same thing @vektor asked: Is this all sarcastic?
If it's not, please watch the video you linked without assuming ill intent from the get go. CGPGrey isn't the one domesticating these beasts.
While I don't take particular issue with this video, and even found it somewhat enjoyable, I do think it's centered in and uncritical of how deeply ingrained animal exploitation is in our culture,...
While I don't take particular issue with this video, and even found it somewhat enjoyable, I do think it's centered in and uncritical of how deeply ingrained animal exploitation is in our culture, especially with lines, flippant or not, like "Cows are machines that convert grass into beef", so if you have animal liberation tendencies, it'll definitely rub you the wrong way. I know I've felt similar values dissonance with otherwise innocuous youtube videos myself, like when Real Engineering or whoever else gushes over some piece of active use military hardware and I'm like, "Golly gee, that sure is one sexy tool of child-killing imperialism!".
In this case I at least interpret it in the opposite way, though. Statements like are quips to bring attention to the animal exploitation inherent in our culture. That's the whole point of the...
In this case I at least interpret it in the opposite way, though. Statements like
Cows are machines that convert grass into beef
are quips to bring attention to the animal exploitation inherent in our culture. That's the whole point of the statement - it reduces that inherency to its most base level, which then sounds absurd, and logically you'll follow that up the chain of simplification which leads to a re-examination of the fundamental idea.
Like a common (although perhaps even darker) quip you see now is something along the lines of "In the US, women are just a container to produce future tax-payers". That's not supposed to be in support of that sentiment, it's satirizing the common anti-abortion arguments and in fact critical of it.
I do fear Poe's Law in these situations. I'm pretty sure I've met enough people who have genuinely joked about that very line ("Cows are machines..."), not finding it absurd at all (just funny),...
I do fear Poe's Law in these situations. I'm pretty sure I've met enough people who have genuinely joked about that very line ("Cows are machines..."), not finding it absurd at all (just funny), while being explicity opposed to animal rights discussion.
Assuming such ill intent on everybody is a sure fire way of both feeling like shit on the web, and making others feel like shit too. CGP Grey is a treasure. We need more humans like him.
Assuming such ill intent on everybody is a sure fire way of both feeling like shit on the web, and making others feel like shit too.
CGP Grey is a treasure. We need more humans like him.
I think there's an important distinction here in that the societal default (uncritical carnism) is precisely to treat cows as machines that turn grass into beef. Without context suggesting...
Like a common (although perhaps even darker) quip you see now is something along the lines of "In the US, women are just a container to produce future tax-payers". That's not supposed to be in support of that sentiment, it's satirizing the common anti-abortion arguments and in fact critical of it.
I think there's an important distinction here in that the societal default (uncritical carnism) is precisely to treat cows as machines that turn grass into beef. Without context suggesting otherwise, which the video, being uncritical of animal exploitation, lacks, it's more like the "haha only serious" kind of quips from the alt right than it is criticism.
EDIT: More bluntly, "Cows are machines for turning grass into beef" hits a lot differently coming from someone who eats factory farmed beef than it does coming from a vegetarian.
While he's not a vegan/vegetarian, on Hello Internet (his podcast with Brady Haran) I remember CGP Grey talking about how eating meat is the worst thing he still does (ethically speaking), and in...
hits a lot differently coming from someone who eats factory farmed beef than it does coming from a vegetarian
While he's not a vegan/vegetarian, on Hello Internet (his podcast with Brady Haran) I remember CGP Grey talking about how eating meat is the worst thing he still does (ethically speaking), and in a discussion on synthetic meat he even compared factory farming to slavery, and called it "inhumane"... so I think it's safe to say he isn't a huge fan of factory farming, and @Qis' assumptions about CGP's beliefs are pretty off-base.
CGP is an edutainer. This video was meant to be an entertaining, very quick breakdown on domestication, not a critical dissection of the ethics (or unethical aspects) involved of the process. Simple as.
Moreover, any criticism of domestication or factory farming or attached topics basically must be subtle due to his audience being, presumably, largely omnivores. I don't think you can go as heavy...
CGP is an edutainer. This video was meant to be an entertaining, very quick breakdown on domestication, not a critical dissection of the ethics (or unethical aspects) involved of the process. Simple as.
Moreover, any criticism of domestication or factory farming or attached topics basically must be subtle due to his audience being, presumably, largely omnivores. I don't think you can go as heavy on the criticism as what would have satisfied critics in this thread, without thoroughly losing a large part of the audience. I think he's getting that balance quite right here: If you are already primed on the subject, it'll read as absurdifying(?) and critical; if you aren't, there's at least a chance this gets you thinking a bit. Eating habits are such a core part of our personality, any outright criticism of attached topics is highly likely to... well, result in butthurt, to put it bluntly.
This video is actually a part two of a conversation based on the book Guns, Germs, and Steel. The first part is worth a watch as well!
The book itself is slightly controversial, not least since the author's background was initially in biochemistry and ornithology, rather than history (although he is now a professor of geography). Regardless, the book attempts to draw a view of history as a series of inevitabilities based on geography and on how the natural world shook out, and removes a significant portion of human agency from the "narrative." He's a compelling writer, and the book is definitely worth a read, but with a critical eye.
CGP Grey meanwhile, continues to produce excellent educational content, and I encourage folks to watch some of his other work if they haven't. He releases sparingly, but the work is consistently high-quality, well-researched, and quite witty.
Slightly controversial is an understatement. Many historians absolutely rip into Jared Diamond on it. Just go over to r/AskHistorians and search for some examples.
To be fair, academics like to rip into anyone who is actually popular. I don’t even necessarily agree with the narrative he articulates, but I think bashing Diamond has become something of a meme among historians in the same way people loved to hate on Twilight. Yeah it’s got its issues and I get that it’s frustrating that it gets on the lecture circuit/best seller lists when you think there’s so much worthier work out there. But let’s not lie to ourselves and pretend there isn’t a decent amount of pettiness underlying it.
I do agree that historians (and scientists, and engineers, and academics more generally. Noticing a theme here…) need to be better at communicating to the general public. Folks like Diamond fill a void for people who want to learn but are put off by highly technical/specific journal articles.
CGP GREY is posting absolutely tyrannical descriptions of the domestication process. His explanation is incredibly vulgar! He says zebras have brains like little grey lumps and that they "lack a family structure" and that makes them unsuitable. He calls them crappy horses. He literally flashes the phrase "exploit family values" on screen. It's such a triumphalist screed. I think humans have a profoundly selfish sense of their relationship with animals and I won't stand for it! Have you watched factory farm videos? I'm telling you, they convert the viewer instantaneously. It's horrible what we're doing and we need to change course.
To clarify: Is this sarcastic, or are you really upset with how CGP grey talks about the topic? 'Cause I'm reading his tone here as flippant and joking, while also talking relatively factually about the reasons history happened as it did, not placing value or judgement on it.
He's not saying Zebras are Horses, just worse. Within the very clear context of the video, what he's saying is: Zebras are worse than horses for domestication. He's also talking quite positively (riding a bear would be awesome!) about those species that didn't make the cut.
His tone is more than flippant, it is smug! I believe he is entirely sincere about the value proposition he is describing. I bet he also believes we're in a great golden age of successfully engineered people. I'm sure you would agree that no bear in the history of bears has ever wished that a human would climb on its back. If you haven't seen the factory farms, I repeat, they are extremely convincing.
… Are you serious? I'm going to ask the same thing @vektor asked: Is this all sarcastic?
If it's not, please watch the video you linked without assuming ill intent from the get go. CGPGrey isn't the one domesticating these beasts.
While I don't take particular issue with this video, and even found it somewhat enjoyable, I do think it's centered in and uncritical of how deeply ingrained animal exploitation is in our culture, especially with lines, flippant or not, like "Cows are machines that convert grass into beef", so if you have animal liberation tendencies, it'll definitely rub you the wrong way. I know I've felt similar values dissonance with otherwise innocuous youtube videos myself, like when Real Engineering or whoever else gushes over some piece of active use military hardware and I'm like, "Golly gee, that sure is one sexy tool of child-killing imperialism!".
In this case I at least interpret it in the opposite way, though. Statements like
are quips to bring attention to the animal exploitation inherent in our culture. That's the whole point of the statement - it reduces that inherency to its most base level, which then sounds absurd, and logically you'll follow that up the chain of simplification which leads to a re-examination of the fundamental idea.
Like a common (although perhaps even darker) quip you see now is something along the lines of "In the US, women are just a container to produce future tax-payers". That's not supposed to be in support of that sentiment, it's satirizing the common anti-abortion arguments and in fact critical of it.
I do fear Poe's Law in these situations. I'm pretty sure I've met enough people who have genuinely joked about that very line ("Cows are machines..."), not finding it absurd at all (just funny), while being explicity opposed to animal rights discussion.
Assuming such ill intent on everybody is a sure fire way of both feeling like shit on the web, and making others feel like shit too.
CGP Grey is a treasure. We need more humans like him.
I think there's an important distinction here in that the societal default (uncritical carnism) is precisely to treat cows as machines that turn grass into beef. Without context suggesting otherwise, which the video, being uncritical of animal exploitation, lacks, it's more like the "haha only serious" kind of quips from the alt right than it is criticism.
EDIT: More bluntly, "Cows are machines for turning grass into beef" hits a lot differently coming from someone who eats factory farmed beef than it does coming from a vegetarian.
While he's not a vegan/vegetarian, on Hello Internet (his podcast with Brady Haran) I remember CGP Grey talking about how eating meat is the worst thing he still does (ethically speaking), and in a discussion on synthetic meat he even compared factory farming to slavery, and called it "inhumane"... so I think it's safe to say he isn't a huge fan of factory farming, and @Qis' assumptions about CGP's beliefs are pretty off-base.
CGP is an edutainer. This video was meant to be an entertaining, very quick breakdown on domestication, not a critical dissection of the ethics (or unethical aspects) involved of the process. Simple as.
Moreover, any criticism of domestication or factory farming or attached topics basically must be subtle due to his audience being, presumably, largely omnivores. I don't think you can go as heavy on the criticism as what would have satisfied critics in this thread, without thoroughly losing a large part of the audience. I think he's getting that balance quite right here: If you are already primed on the subject, it'll read as absurdifying(?) and critical; if you aren't, there's at least a chance this gets you thinking a bit. Eating habits are such a core part of our personality, any outright criticism of attached topics is highly likely to... well, result in butthurt, to put it bluntly.
Off-topic, but sometimes I think of my cat as a machine that converts kibble into kitty.