The video is interesting, but it's also kind of a disturbing look into East Asian idol culture. It's especially weird that it's focused on a weatherwoman instead of an idol. It's easy to be like...
The video is interesting, but it's also kind of a disturbing look into East Asian idol culture. It's especially weird that it's focused on a weatherwoman instead of an idol.
It's easy to be like "LOL Japan" about this, but we see a lot of this weird parasocial attachment to Twitch streamers and such in the States too.
There's a popular anime aired this year which talks about the idol industry in a complex and deep way. There's incidents in Japan where insane stalker fans have psychologically distress or even...
There's a popular anime aired this year which talks about the idol industry in a complex and deep way. There's incidents in Japan where insane stalker fans have psychologically distress or even hurt idols. Even if perceived positively and put on a pedestal, it always makes me uncomfortable for women to be objectified......
I would say by focusing on a weather-caster, as opposed to a traditional idol, the video highlights just how pervasive the idol culture, and para-socialality in general, is.
I would say by focusing on a weather-caster, as opposed to a traditional idol, the video highlights just how pervasive the idol culture, and para-socialality in general, is.
If you're interested in somebody because they're available, and turn on them when they're suddenly not, then you were never interested in them as a person, but as an object. I feel like the crux...
If you're interested in somebody because they're available, and turn on them when they're suddenly not, then you were never interested in them as a person, but as an object. I feel like the crux of most social issues comes down to entitlement. Who do these "fans" think they are? On the other side of the spectrum you have sycophants that will follow Jake Paul, no matter how many people he scams.
I think that in some cases, it comes from obsession. Usually, the more you invest into something or someone, the more you expect to get in return. In one direction, being too invested in someone...
I think that in some cases, it comes from obsession. Usually, the more you invest into something or someone, the more you expect to get in return. In one direction, being too invested in someone can lead to impossible expectations. In another direction, it could evoke a sunk-cost feeling. It's not easy to let go of a relationship you've invested so much in.
As soon as I saw the title I was praying it wasn't about Saya Hiyama but here we are (then again I can't imagine any other big Japanese weatherwoman) This is sadly nothing new. Japan isn't the...
As soon as I saw the title I was praying it wasn't about Saya Hiyama but here we are (then again I can't imagine any other big Japanese weatherwoman)
This is sadly nothing new. Japan isn't the only country where simps exist but it's certainly one of the countries that has heavily leaned on them for profit, and that comes with a whole load of caveats. Their entertainment industry is rife with this sort of attitude and while it's not the majority of fans, the percentage of angry fans who think an entertainer exists to serve them is loud and vicious enough to always be wary of.
It's a shame because Saya really is a genuinely wholesome weatherwoman and doesn't deserve this crap at all.
Luckily because she's a weatherwoman and not an actual idol under an idol talent agency she probably didn't get it as bad as some other women might have. There's no reason for the news channel she works under to fire her for having a relationship, something other industries wouldn't allow.
It seems like it's precisely because she's wholesome that she got rolled with this. What a catch-22 it is for anyone to actually want to be charming or relatable.
It's a shame because Saya really is a genuinely wholesome weatherwoman and doesn't deserve this crap at all.
It seems like it's precisely because she's wholesome that she got rolled with this. What a catch-22 it is for anyone to actually want to be charming or relatable.
That ikura don / Wimbledon pun was legit good, I think as an English-speaking westerner it’s probably the first time I’ve actually understood and laughed at Japanese wordplay. But yeah, everything...
That ikura don / Wimbledon pun was legit good, I think as an English-speaking westerner it’s probably the first time I’ve actually understood and laughed at Japanese wordplay.
But yeah, everything else about this is terrible. I have many hard-to-articulate concerns about parasocial idol culture and the ways it overlaps with things like the streamer/camgirl/pornstar spectrum here in the west. I think it’s absolutely a problem that so many women can’t just be women online without having to fend off hordes of thirsty simps and bitter incels. I think there’s a tie-in with the whole waifu-obsessed otaku scene but at least those women are fictional characters. My read on the situation is that there are just a lot of men — a LOT — who don’t know how to turn down the volume of their inner horndog. It’s a cross-cultural, global issue. I don’t know how to fix it.
Yeah those jokes seemed like good-natured ribbing. All the people on that stage are in show business so I guess they all low-key live in fear of something like that happening to them or someone...
That ikura don / Wimbledon pun was legit good, I think as an English-speaking westerner it’s probably the first time I’ve actually understood and laughed at Japanese wordplay.
Yeah those jokes seemed like good-natured ribbing. All the people on that stage are in show business so I guess they all low-key live in fear of something like that happening to them or someone close to them. So they're probably able to relate.
I love offbeat stories like this. Not because what happened is in any way good mind, but because it gives a glimpse into a strange world I'm never going to be in contact with. It feel like it...
I love offbeat stories like this. Not because what happened is in any way good mind, but because it gives a glimpse into a strange world I'm never going to be in contact with. It feel like it makes me able to recognise what people can be like, whether its here or halfway across the world. It's partially why I've always thought it positive that where I grew up was diverse in all sorts of ways. In a "no type of person is strange to me because I met them all" kind of way.
Having a well rounded experience with humanity makes you able to emphatise with anyone.
Those idiots harassing an innocent person online are reprehensible though. But instead of being just angry, it also makes me kind of pity them and hope they find themselves at some point in their lives.
For more exposure to Japan via television streaming I can highly recommend the Netflix show Midnight Diner and the reality program Old Enough. There is of course a lot more available content as well.
For more exposure to Japan via television streaming I can highly recommend the Netflix show Midnight Diner and the reality program Old Enough. There is of course a lot more available content as well.
This is so terribly sad to me and just a part of Japanese culture I can't fathom. If you were really a fan of someone, wouldn't you want the best for them? Why is it the expectation that these...
This is so terribly sad to me and just a part of Japanese culture I can't fathom. If you were really a fan of someone, wouldn't you want the best for them? Why is it the expectation that these poor idols or idol-adjacent men and women should live their lives perpetually single and grow older alone?
Not defending it but to those looking to understand, the general idea is that idols are entering a "contract" with the fans. They provide the fans with hopes and dreams of a pseudo-relationship...
Why is it the expectation that these poor idols or idol-adjacent men and women should live their lives perpetually single and grow older alone?
Not defending it but to those looking to understand, the general idea is that idols are entering a "contract" with the fans. They provide the fans with hopes and dreams of a pseudo-relationship and in return the fans provide financial support. That's why being in a relationship is seen as such a transgression for these fans. They paid to have someone keep their fantasies going, not destroy them. Basically it's a transactional (and very much not healthy) relationship.
I don't think that's necessarily the angle. It's more that they consider the idol someone that's "pure" and that when they're in a relationship with someone else, they're "defiling" the purity. No...
I don't think that's necessarily the angle. It's more that they consider the idol someone that's "pure" and that when they're in a relationship with someone else, they're "defiling" the purity. No one really thinks they have a shot or anything.
A really extreme example is Mary - yes, that Mary. I don't think it's a coincidence that the "first miracle" involving the symbol of purity was virgin birth. Poor Joseph, who in return gets to "be a patron saint of virgins, he is venerated as "most chaste"... A specific veneration is tributed to the most chaste and pure heart of Saint Joseph" [0].
While... a bit of a off there comparison, I think there is a bit of religious fanaticism to idol culture.
That's likely an element but in the end it's all part of the transactional nature of parasocial idol culture where some fans expect idols to be "theirs" (collectively) and not "belong" to one...
That's likely an element but in the end it's all part of the transactional nature of parasocial idol culture where some fans expect idols to be "theirs" (collectively) and not "belong" to one person specifically (ie dating someone), because they crave what little attention they can get, even if they only get it as part of a large collective.
It's not that the fans believe they have a real shot with the idol romantically, it's that while they are supporting the idol the idol is to be solely devoted to the fans period, that's the fantasy. We give you our undying support and you give your entire life to us sort of deal.
Once an idol is dating someone they have broken the contract they implicitly had with the fans, so they lose their fans' support, that's "the deal".
Obviously mysoginy and seeing women as less worthy once they're not virgins is all an enabling aspect of this culture, but it's more than that, it's people wanting sole ownership of someone else. Male idols have it just as bad.
I'm glad you mentioned male idols as well! The former idol that came out as gay recently was heartbreaking to listen to. He talked about staying in the closet, fearing the social backlash, and...
I'm glad you mentioned male idols as well! The former idol that came out as gay recently was heartbreaking to listen to. He talked about staying in the closet, fearing the social backlash, and fans can definitely be a part of that.
The expectations placed on idols are completely unrealistic. That's unfortunately part of idols' appeal for many fanatics...
I think the fans' expectations come not from the type of relationship they have with the idol, but from their preconceived notion of "ideal womanhood." I guess in this case, the fans have...
I think the fans' expectations come not from the type of relationship they have with the idol, but from their preconceived notion of "ideal womanhood." I guess in this case, the fans have identified Saya Hiyama as an ideal woman, and they get angry at her when she acts different than how they think she should.
This is completely off-topic but I had no idea the “perpetual virginity“ of both Mary and Joseph was such a point of doctrinal contention. The Bible mentions several brothers of Jesus by name....
This is completely off-topic but I had no idea the “perpetual virginity“ of both Mary and Joseph was such a point of doctrinal contention. The Bible mentions several brothers of Jesus by name. Apparently theologians can’t agree whether they are natural children of Mary and Joseph after Jesus’ birth, or Joseph’s kids from a previous marriage, or actually just cousins called brothers for some reason. I had a giggle when I first read your mention that Joseph is a patron saint of virgins, but wow. That’s an unexpectedly deep rabbit hole.
All I can say is, I hope nobody scrutinizes my sexuality to that degree, two millennia after my death. 😬
I mean I didn't write a PhD on the subject or anything, but I lived in China for a bit and we imported a substantial amount of "idol culture" from Japan and K-Pop from Korea in the 2000s and...
I mean I didn't write a PhD on the subject or anything, but I lived in China for a bit and we imported a substantial amount of "idol culture" from Japan and K-Pop from Korea in the 2000s and onwards, so that is my view on the matter.
Thanks. I have visited but not lived in Japan. I just didn't know whether members of a Shinto/Buddhist culture would have the same hangups as catholics and evangelicals.
Thanks. I have visited but not lived in Japan. I just didn't know whether members of a Shinto/Buddhist culture would have the same hangups as catholics and evangelicals.
A few months ago there was a fantastic satirical post that led people to believe that a group of Taylor Swift fans, calling themselves "fanworkers" had created a union and were asking for...
A few months ago there was a fantastic satirical post that led people to believe that a group of Taylor Swift fans, calling themselves "fanworkers" had created a union and were asking for compensation, health insurance, a say in business decisions, and commissions on her revenue. I thought it was quite a clever commentary on the relationship between superstar celebrities and their adoring, dedicated, obsessed, and often delusional fanbases.
Make me think of https://gintama.fandom.com/wiki/Diviner_Arc which starts out with the protagonist having a crush on a TV weather lady who predicts the weather by fortunetellling instead of...
which starts out with the protagonist having a crush on a TV weather lady who predicts the weather by fortunetellling instead of science but gets the crush right.
I got sad right away that I couldn’t find a better English language page about what I think of as the “onmyoji arc”. The web just isn’t what it used to be.
This is the first I'm hearing of this whole thing. My understanding is that she's a weather woman who seems to have gathered fans because she's cute and wholesome. And now that she's in a...
This is the first I'm hearing of this whole thing. My understanding is that she's a weather woman who seems to have gathered fans because she's cute and wholesome. And now that she's in a relationship, people (who were for some reason hopeful of a fantasy where they were with her) got legitimately upset? Am I missing something, or is that really the whole issue?
The video is interesting, but it's also kind of a disturbing look into East Asian idol culture. It's especially weird that it's focused on a weatherwoman instead of an idol.
It's easy to be like "LOL Japan" about this, but we see a lot of this weird parasocial attachment to Twitch streamers and such in the States too.
There's a popular anime aired this year which talks about the idol industry in a complex and deep way. There's incidents in Japan where insane stalker fans have psychologically distress or even hurt idols. Even if perceived positively and put on a pedestal, it always makes me uncomfortable for women to be objectified......
I presume you're talking about Oshi no Ko? It's an excellent show, and anyone that enjoys dramas, or anime in general, should give it a watch.
Yes but I didnt want to give the spoiler away :')
I would say by focusing on a weather-caster, as opposed to a traditional idol, the video highlights just how pervasive the idol culture, and para-socialality in general, is.
If you're interested in somebody because they're available, and turn on them when they're suddenly not, then you were never interested in them as a person, but as an object. I feel like the crux of most social issues comes down to entitlement. Who do these "fans" think they are? On the other side of the spectrum you have sycophants that will follow Jake Paul, no matter how many people he scams.
I think that in some cases, it comes from obsession. Usually, the more you invest into something or someone, the more you expect to get in return. In one direction, being too invested in someone can lead to impossible expectations. In another direction, it could evoke a sunk-cost feeling. It's not easy to let go of a relationship you've invested so much in.
As soon as I saw the title I was praying it wasn't about Saya Hiyama but here we are (then again I can't imagine any other big Japanese weatherwoman)
This is sadly nothing new. Japan isn't the only country where simps exist but it's certainly one of the countries that has heavily leaned on them for profit, and that comes with a whole load of caveats. Their entertainment industry is rife with this sort of attitude and while it's not the majority of fans, the percentage of angry fans who think an entertainer exists to serve them is loud and vicious enough to always be wary of.
It's a shame because Saya really is a genuinely wholesome weatherwoman and doesn't deserve this crap at all.
Luckily because she's a weatherwoman and not an actual idol under an idol talent agency she probably didn't get it as bad as some other women might have. There's no reason for the news channel she works under to fire her for having a relationship, something other industries wouldn't allow.
It seems like it's precisely because she's wholesome that she got rolled with this. What a catch-22 it is for anyone to actually want to be charming or relatable.
That ikura don / Wimbledon pun was legit good, I think as an English-speaking westerner it’s probably the first time I’ve actually understood and laughed at Japanese wordplay.
But yeah, everything else about this is terrible. I have many hard-to-articulate concerns about parasocial idol culture and the ways it overlaps with things like the streamer/camgirl/pornstar spectrum here in the west. I think it’s absolutely a problem that so many women can’t just be women online without having to fend off hordes of thirsty simps and bitter incels. I think there’s a tie-in with the whole waifu-obsessed otaku scene but at least those women are fictional characters. My read on the situation is that there are just a lot of men — a LOT — who don’t know how to turn down the volume of their inner horndog. It’s a cross-cultural, global issue. I don’t know how to fix it.
Yeah those jokes seemed like good-natured ribbing. All the people on that stage are in show business so I guess they all low-key live in fear of something like that happening to them or someone close to them. So they're probably able to relate.
I love offbeat stories like this. Not because what happened is in any way good mind, but because it gives a glimpse into a strange world I'm never going to be in contact with. It feel like it makes me able to recognise what people can be like, whether its here or halfway across the world. It's partially why I've always thought it positive that where I grew up was diverse in all sorts of ways. In a "no type of person is strange to me because I met them all" kind of way.
Having a well rounded experience with humanity makes you able to emphatise with anyone.
Those idiots harassing an innocent person online are reprehensible though. But instead of being just angry, it also makes me kind of pity them and hope they find themselves at some point in their lives.
For more exposure to Japan via television streaming I can highly recommend the Netflix show Midnight Diner and the reality program Old Enough. There is of course a lot more available content as well.
This is so terribly sad to me and just a part of Japanese culture I can't fathom. If you were really a fan of someone, wouldn't you want the best for them? Why is it the expectation that these poor idols or idol-adjacent men and women should live their lives perpetually single and grow older alone?
Not defending it but to those looking to understand, the general idea is that idols are entering a "contract" with the fans. They provide the fans with hopes and dreams of a pseudo-relationship and in return the fans provide financial support. That's why being in a relationship is seen as such a transgression for these fans. They paid to have someone keep their fantasies going, not destroy them. Basically it's a transactional (and very much not healthy) relationship.
I don't think that's necessarily the angle. It's more that they consider the idol someone that's "pure" and that when they're in a relationship with someone else, they're "defiling" the purity. No one really thinks they have a shot or anything.
A really extreme example is Mary - yes, that Mary. I don't think it's a coincidence that the "first miracle" involving the symbol of purity was virgin birth. Poor Joseph, who in return gets to "be a patron saint of virgins, he is venerated as "most chaste"... A specific veneration is tributed to the most chaste and pure heart of Saint Joseph" [0].
While... a bit of a off there comparison, I think there is a bit of religious fanaticism to idol culture.
That's likely an element but in the end it's all part of the transactional nature of parasocial idol culture where some fans expect idols to be "theirs" (collectively) and not "belong" to one person specifically (ie dating someone), because they crave what little attention they can get, even if they only get it as part of a large collective.
It's not that the fans believe they have a real shot with the idol romantically, it's that while they are supporting the idol the idol is to be solely devoted to the fans period, that's the fantasy. We give you our undying support and you give your entire life to us sort of deal.
Once an idol is dating someone they have broken the contract they implicitly had with the fans, so they lose their fans' support, that's "the deal".
Obviously mysoginy and seeing women as less worthy once they're not virgins is all an enabling aspect of this culture, but it's more than that, it's people wanting sole ownership of someone else. Male idols have it just as bad.
I'm glad you mentioned male idols as well! The former idol that came out as gay recently was heartbreaking to listen to. He talked about staying in the closet, fearing the social backlash, and fans can definitely be a part of that.
The expectations placed on idols are completely unrealistic. That's unfortunately part of idols' appeal for many fanatics...
I think the fans' expectations come not from the type of relationship they have with the idol, but from their preconceived notion of "ideal womanhood." I guess in this case, the fans have identified Saya Hiyama as an ideal woman, and they get angry at her when she acts different than how they think she should.
This is completely off-topic but I had no idea the “perpetual virginity“ of both Mary and Joseph was such a point of doctrinal contention. The Bible mentions several brothers of Jesus by name. Apparently theologians can’t agree whether they are natural children of Mary and Joseph after Jesus’ birth, or Joseph’s kids from a previous marriage, or actually just cousins called brothers for some reason. I had a giggle when I first read your mention that Joseph is a patron saint of virgins, but wow. That’s an unexpectedly deep rabbit hole.
All I can say is, I hope nobody scrutinizes my sexuality to that degree, two millennia after my death. 😬
Do you think this definitely applies to Japanese fans?
I mean I didn't write a PhD on the subject or anything, but I lived in China for a bit and we imported a substantial amount of "idol culture" from Japan and K-Pop from Korea in the 2000s and onwards, so that is my view on the matter.
Thanks. I have visited but not lived in Japan. I just didn't know whether members of a Shinto/Buddhist culture would have the same hangups as catholics and evangelicals.
A few months ago there was a fantastic satirical post that led people to believe that a group of Taylor Swift fans, calling themselves "fanworkers" had created a union and were asking for compensation, health insurance, a say in business decisions, and commissions on her revenue. I thought it was quite a clever commentary on the relationship between superstar celebrities and their adoring, dedicated, obsessed, and often delusional fanbases.
Make me think of
https://gintama.fandom.com/wiki/Diviner_Arc
which starts out with the protagonist having a crush on a TV weather lady who predicts the weather by fortunetellling instead of science but gets the crush right.
I got sad right away that I couldn’t find a better English language page about what I think of as the “onmyoji arc”. The web just isn’t what it used to be.
This is the first I'm hearing of this whole thing. My understanding is that she's a weather woman who seems to have gathered fans because she's cute and wholesome. And now that she's in a relationship, people (who were for some reason hopeful of a fantasy where they were with her) got legitimately upset? Am I missing something, or is that really the whole issue?