37
votes
Career advice (or success stories) thread
I've seen a few posts on Tildes now about careers - sometimes personal posts about burnout and how to manage it, other times links to articles about layoffs.
The end result of both of these is often a need to find a new job. For some it may be as simple as applying for the same title at a different company and having success, for others it may be a long process of determining what type of career to go for next and perhaps education or other factors that can help them get there.
I wanted to try starting a thread to see if those of us who are struggling can ask for advice, and perhaps those who are doing well can help or even post their career journey to show how they got where they are today.
I'm in what I hope will be the last leg of my career, and the path has been twisty, sometimes to the point of incredulity. I've toggled back and forth between the public and private sectors a total of six times, with stints in academia, law enforcement, and the "C-suite".
Patterns I've observed looking back:
Mistakes I've made worth sharing:
Straight up advice:
This was actually a neat reflection exercise. I enjoyed writing it.
I'm a software engineer and I think the ~4 years of experience that I have so far isn't attractive to employers nor does it align with my personal goals. I worked on a kanban team for 3 years fresh out of college solely doing ad-hoc SQL scripts for a massive company. They weren't even that complex, usually just separating the credentials of newly-divorced customers who shared an account. I didn't like the work but it paid well for the area and they let me work from home after the pandemic started. I interviewed around at other places during my 3 years there but the leap of leaving my first full-time job and not being able to work from home kept me rooted. Eventually tech layoffs came for me and the line of business I worked under, which didn't feel great but it lit a fire under me to get another job fast.
Fortunately I was able to land a contracting job as a junior Java engineer where I've been for the last 12 months. I've learned so much working here doing "real work", and learning from some great engineers on my team. But still, while the work I do is much more rewarding it's not where I want to stay. The bulk of my work is fixing bugs that come from integrating new features with ghastly legacy code. I want to work on building new things with new technology rather than supporting a legacy product that's being sunset in 6 months anyway.
It probably seems arrogant or naive to want ownership of building new features or even a new platform when I have just 1 year of experience supporting an older system but it's really what attracts me to the field. I've been speedrunning building websites and systems with a few different tech stacks, just to get the experience of building from the ground up. More recently I've been experimenting with building Go microservices in docker containers and front-end sites with Vue, and I like it a lot. I just don't know how to go about getting a job working with these things when most job listings want staff engineers with ~10 years of experience. I'd be okay with taking another junior engineer role if I was allowed to move fast and grow fast in it, but as far as I can see there aren't any junior positions hiring for these stacks right now.
I feel like I could build a better case for myself if I was to get an interview with the companies I apply to but I've only received rejections in the last couple of months. I just want to know what I can do to sell myself to these companies that are building new products with new tech. It feels like there's so much to learn but there are things I can't learn working by myself on websites that get no traffic, and I would benefit from working in a environment with other engineers. Maybe I'm looking at it all wrong, and I just need to hear someone else's perspective to reframe how I view things.
@ShroudedScribe thanks for posting posting this thread. I've had this on my chest for a bit and it feels good to write it all out, even if I don't get any advice.
Alas, IME the way to go is to get lucky once finding a place that'll take a chance on you, and then it gets easier from there.
Don't be afraid to
lieengage in creative reinterpretations of things you've done before, as long as you're not putting yourself in a position where people can find out: that is, don't lie about easily verified facts, and don't claim to know things if the first interview question will make it obvious that you don't, but e.g.rephrase this as working on the new features and it can suddenly sound more impressive while still being technically correct. If you want someone to hire you to do X, giving them the impression that you've done X successfully may be the difference between them at least talking to you vs skipping to the next candidate in the list.
Thanks for the advice! I try to enhance my experience as much as possible my resume without being outright lies, and I admit when I don't know something in an interview but emphasize that I'm a quick learner ready to work on anything new. That was my strategy during interviews last year and it worked to get me my current job but this time around I'm not getting any takers on my applications at all. It's starting to get worrisome but I've still got time.
Remember when headlines feature layoffs, you might be swimming upstream against the current while job hunting.
Don't blame yourself and do get creative if you have to
It feels like these headlines are perennial staples though, doesn't it. Tech is unfortunately seen as a cost rather than revenue by most companies, even some tech companies.
Unless your company makes money by tending your tech talents to others and change those guys money. Then it's pretty awesome.
I remember some previous tech booms and busts. But there is no guarantee that silicon valley remains a boom town. Detroit was very wealthy and employed huge numbers until it didnt
Here is a copy/paste from a reply of mine elsewhere in the thread:
Applicant tracking systems will scan your resume when you upload it and give it an automatic score based on the match to the description posted. Making sure the ATS easily processes your resume and hits a 90% posting match will greatly improve your odds of getting an interview. Additionally, a well-written cover letter that obviously addresses the specific job is your chance to hook the reviewers and make them want to ask you questions. When I finally broke into the executive realm and met with the final decision maker for the hire, they had my cover letter printed out and talked about how much they were intrigued by my opening paragraph.
I'm happy to answer any follow-up questions. Along the way, I was lead technical contributor, director of engineering, etc. I've hired dozens and dozens of technical positions and can give a pretty good idea of what people are looking for.
Thanks for the advice! I did pay for an ATS/resume review from Indeed or LinkedIn last year and it felt like a total waste of money, but I guess there's much better services out there. How can you tell a job will be worth interviewing for before paying money to have your resume tailored to its job description / ATS? $900 is a lot of money for me, and most companies listed on Indeed/LinkedIn I've never heard of. There are MAANG companies but I rarely apply, mostly because I don't feel like I would get the job anyway. Every time I start writing a cover letter I end up deleting it too because it feels so forced, I never know what to write.
The $900 was for the whole package with the resume writer which included the interviews, unlimited rewrites, and unlimited ATS (applicant tracking system) resume scams customized for each job posting.
Edit: it also included them updating your LinkedIn page to reflect the changes. You say a temp password, give them access, they do their thing, then let you know to change the password.
That said, I don't think you need that unless you are really making an aggressive or strategic leap and you don't know how to make the initial reformulation of your resume and to word your experience in the best possible way.
So a few things
make sure your resume is machine readable. Use the Word and PDF tools for accessibility and screen readers to make sure computers parse it correctly.
use active language and talk about what matters. What matters is whatever is emphasized in the position description. When the people review these they take the required and preferred skills or experiences and put them in a matrix. Each resume either checks the boxes, or it doesn't. If you miss one of the required skills, right into the trash.
you've gotta figure out how to write a compelling cover letter if you want to advance quickly. I know all the memes about I'm here for the money, etc, regarding interview questions like what interested you in the position. But the best jobs have people who actually want to do them and want the top compensation that goes with it. You've got to figure out something to motivate you and tap into that energy for your cover letter. Example: I like helping research get done. I'm applying for a senior position. I talk about how much I enjoy aligning organizational processes to enable more research. I dress it up with happy or excited or confident language as appropriate. You need to find a way to connect the work you would be doing with an outcome you care about and the organization cares about. If you can't do that, you will get beat out by the people who can.
Does Tilde have a DM feature? I'm happy to connect and share an example of my resume and cover letter, and review and give feedback on yours, but don't want to share those things publicly.
Teaching at a warm and welcoming school has made my life very fulfilling and happy.
But education is not for everyone. Nobody is lukewarm on it. You love it or it's fucking miserable for you.
In lower-paying states with poor benefits, getting into education is fairly easy, but staying in is hard due to burnout. Rough schools in big cities can be absolutely brutal. Traumatic even - for the kids and the teachers.
In higher-paying states with better benefits, teaching has a pretty high barrier for entry and there are a lot of hoops even after you get certified.
Upsides:
Love the kids dude. They are hilarious and I've only met one kid I truly didn't like. Every other time I thought I wasn't going to like a student, they end up revealing some awesome trait they have.
Very rewarding. Constantly changing. Every day is a unique challenge.
Great hours and lots of time off.
Usually attracts warm and caring people. As a man, I've really enjoyed working in a field dominated by women. They tend to be more thoughtful and welcoming in my experience than male-dominated fields. As an example, they threw me an amazing baby shower. It was so incredibly nice.
Lots of variation for different types of people. Teaching special Ed is way different than teaching technology which is way different than teaching Social Studies, etc.
Opportunities to get paid to have fun. Start a video game club, coach a sport, whatever.
Get to help people. You're never just a teacher. You're a social worker, friend, parent, and more.
Downsides:
Your job is subject to the political whims of the time and place.
Blamed for all of society's failures.
Tons of paperwork.
Work outside of work is very common, especially for the first few years or anytime you teach a new class.
Lot of schools are top-heavy. This goes back to those hoops I talked about. Admin can make or break a school. They really can make your life hell because they decide whether or not you jumped high enough and in the way they like. Depending on where you are, they are often reporting their opinion of you back to the state through their observation reports and other documentation. It can be stressful. I've never had an issue but I can totally see how it could be a tool for power tripping.
Parents can be amazing or horrible.
Pay and benefits vary massively between states or even cities/towns.
You're a local celebrity. Social media, being drunk in public, having a bad day - all of these can get you fired easily.
There is more I could share. But I'll summarize with this: sometimes it's a dream job where you make a difference every day. Other times you're trying to add buzzwords to a lesson plan, hoping that - without changing a single thing about your actual lesson - you've managed to spice up your plan enough to please the powers that be. Oh, and you'll be answering a billion emails while you try to do that. Your entire job revolves around sticky notes and to do lists!
Have you read the book Up the Down Staircase? It's one of my favorites
I slightly envy your position. Partially because you clearly love your job despite the downsides. But also because you're doing something that makes a positive difference in the world. Outside of my first part-time job, I feel like all the work I've done has been a net negative to the world, either due to the industry I've worked for, or because I feel the products I'm supporting are a rip-off. And I know that many of the applications I've worked on get trashed a few months after completion, due to how inefficient these big companies I've supported are. I would love to do something that makes the world a better place.
I totally understand that. My buddy is a web developer and has shared a similar sentiment.
I'll say this, I don't dread my Mondays. On days when I don't like my job, I still love it, and on the days when I don't love it, I still like it. If that makes any sense.
It helps that I'm in a "good" state for teachers. Wife and I are broke right now like everyone else but I do have stability and my regular pay raises will, about 10 years from now, make my wages more comfortable. I'm also set up for a mostly-comfortable retirement.
Do you think you could do your same job but find a better employer? Are there companies or nonprofits in need of your services that would be more fulfilling for you? Or maybe even a government agency?
Only aspects of my job, which are hard to prove without job titles that align directly with the experience or education to back it up. The core service we provide is directly tied to software we resell as a partner, and the software we're currently focused on feels like a huge scam based on absurd pricing, limited functionality, and difficulty to learn.
I'm admittedly also a bit trapped by the high wages this job offers (which are higher than I think I'm worth, unfortunately). I'm willing to take a small cut to work somewhere more fulfilling (especially since I effectively don't have health benefits at my current employer), but some newer employers in the area want to pay less than living wages for a harsh working environment, which I refuse to do.
I do think I'm doing what I can, which is work on my education. Hopefully either this job continues to exist while I finish school (even though I hate it), or I'm able to find something else now that I can state on my resume that my Bachelor's is in-progress.
Is it bad form for me to ask for your favorite stories about this kid? If you can narrow the bad ones down to a single person I can't help but be morbidly curious.
I don't mind at all. But honestly, if I had a "favorite" story about this kid, then I would probably like him.
I'm a softie. I've had disruptive kids, kids with very little ability or willingness to learn, and kids with honestly terrible behavior, but I always find something positive in them or an explanation for their behavior (usually home life) that makes sense to me and gives me some patience and empathy for them.
This kid was just so miserable to deal with that his backstory, which was admittedly not good, didn't stir anything in me. If he had a redeeming quality, I didn't personally find it.
One story that comes to mind was when I saw him do something in the hallway. Can't recall what - stealing, pushing, threatening - something. And when I called him out for it, he just denied doing it at all. He wanted to get nasty and argue with me, so I said, "Okay, let's just go to the office and they can check the camera. They can deal with it." We go to the office, they pull up the camera, and he's on camera doing what I said he did, clear as day. His response? "I didn't do that. You guys are targeting me and this school is racist."
He got in trouble, absolutely refused to speak to me for like a month even though he pretty much had to in order to complete certain assignments. Wouldn't even ask me questions or acknowledge me when I told him he needed to do this or that.
Later, I caught him cheating by googling every single test question. I took screenshots and recordings of him copy and pasting the questions into google. I nicely told him that he was getting a zero, but that I'd give him another chance to retake it later if he wanted. This was me holding out the olive branch. ANY other kid would have received a zero with no chance to retake it. But in the name of peace and harmony, I made him this concession.
Was he understanding or thankful? Nope. I was again called a racist and told that I was targeting him. Oh, and also he didn't cheat. He would never do that. I was trying to get him trouble, of course.
This kid also brought a backpack full of food every single day and sold it for a ridiculous markup to other kids. I always assumed this was an urban legend because I've heard about kids doing this but never saw. Sure, kids sell things, but usually in one-off deals. None of them actually make it a business. This kid did! He must have made hundreds of dollars doing it too. Probably upward of a thousand. It was a daily battle because he really isn't supposed to be selling things at school. Causes way too many problems when kids bring money and goods to school.
I'll say this about him, he was shameless and resourceful. He didn't actually think anyone was being racist or targeting him. He knew we knew it was him on camera. He was just very manipulative and was always trying to get one over on people. He wanted to do what he wanted to do. If caught, he would throw anything at the wall on the off chance that it might stick. He was conniving, dishonest, and manipulative in my opinion. I do know one teacher who liked him and she says the kid was always so nice to her. Part of me thinks maybe he found someone to connect with. I hope that's the case. But another part of me thinks he was just nice to her because it was the most advantageous way to engage with her. She was more chill and probably wouldn't have caught him cheating in the first place. And if she did catch him, no matter how many times she caught him, she would have said something like, "That was sneaky! I'll let it slide this time but don't do it again!"
Anyway, if you want good stories, ask a teacher about their funniest student. That's where the stories are.
I'll bite - who has your funniest student been?
I'll start off the thread by sharing my current struggles:
I'm questioning which career path to go down, both due to wavering interests and difficulties finding a job.
I feel like I've been a bit trapped by current job. I always intended for it to be temporary, but it's now been my longest place of work (5 years). I'm a consultant who supports companies with "no-code/low-code" software we try to sell them (along with our services). I feel like the product we've recently pivoted to is somewhat immoral to sell due to the exorbitant cost, limitations in the software, and difficult (knowledge) barrier to entry. Currently, I'm not working for a client, and concerned that they may not keep me on the payroll much longer if they can't get any sales.
Some of the skills I've developed from this position (and my previous one, as Programmer Analyst) that align more with my current goals are business analysis (requirements gathering), project management (timeline/milestones review with customers), and training (developing documentation, 1-on-1 mentoring, and webinar/group training). However, not having "Project Manager" or "Business (Process) Analyst" as a title on my resume likely isn't helping me move more towards this path.
I have a mild interest in programming, but it's been somewhat of a "if you don't use it, you lose it" situation - there's no way I can currently pass coding exercises or programming interviews, and even if I had the knowledge in my head, my severe struggle with test anxiety will likely still keep me from being successful. Both my current and past jobs involve(d) some heavy SQL, so I would say I have roughly medium-level skills there.
I also have an interest in SysAdmin or maybe even DevOps type work. But my only professional experience in this field is my first part-time helpdesk job.
I have an associate's degree in IT and recently decided to pursue my BS in IT in hopes of being considered more seriously in job applications. I'm at least a year out (optimistically) from completing the bachelor's program, though.
Between working for a VERY small company and taking classes online, I haven't found many opportunities for networking. All of my jobs (so far) have been obtained via networking, and I've been searching for over four years now without much luck. (I've gotten some interviews, including final interviews, but no offers.) I'm not sure if finding a mentor would be helpful, especially since a lot of people who pop up on LinkedIn with business analyst or PM titles have Master's degrees, which is something I likely don't see myself doing. I recently got invited to join my school's honors program, so I'm considering that.
Has anyone transitioned from a technical role in IT to a more business-centric role like Business Analyst or Project Manager? If so, any advice?
I transitioned from lead technical contributor to project manager and then progressed through the management and leadership ranks. There were a few things that helped along the way. First, I had to reframe my approach to work, and instead of thinking in terms of "what is the best technical product we could produce," I thought in terms of "what does the organization need?" and "what is visible and important to the organization." Maximizing deliverables completed to a sufficient standard rather than making each one as good as I might like it to be. That meant learning when "good enough" was achieved so I could stop working on a project and free up time to engage in planning sessions and committees. I also listened to podcasts on management. (manager-tools, I think, was one), focused on my writing skills, paid for my own Grammarly license, etc.
One of the core things you need to do in any business-centric role is to be able to conduct listening sessions, succinctly and clearly capture the organization's needs in written form and presentations, and distribute requirements/work to the different business units. Learning how to make effective spreadsheets and visualizations that can be understood at a glance also helps. Most people make things too busy or use a type of chart that doesn't suit the data. Lucid-Chart is great and makes some really nice-looking workflows, timelines, etc.
Once I laser-focused on completing just the necessary technical objectives and not indulging in nice-to-haves that no one asked for, I spent time volunteering to participate in meetings, shadowed a few people in the org to learn their habits, and studied on my own; it ended up being a fairly natural transition. I did an MBA to complement my STEM degrees a few years later, and it really gave me the language and tools to operate in large organizations.
When I was ready to start going for aspirational roles, I hired a resume writer. They interview you, capture all of your accomplishments, and take in your past resumes, CVs, and whatever you have. They ask you what positions you are going for and tailor the resume to the role. The one I used had their own hosted applicant tracking system, where they would take the position description of the job you wanted to apply for, post it on their private module, and submit their draft resumes to it until it passed with a 90%+ scan/keyword match. I paid about $900 for the continuing support package that gave me access to unlimited resume scans. They did a really good job in ensuring I landed the interview, and once in the interview, it was up to me from there.
Best of luck!
Not the OP but some good tips in there. Thank you!!
This is one of the things I enjoyed most in my last role, and can only do some of the time in my current role. It drives me up the wall when my bosses or others do a very poor job at requirements gathering, and I end up producing an application that doesn't do half of what the business needs it to. This is also part of my motivation to move to a role focusing on this, which could be PM or BA/BPA.
The resume writer info is interesting. I often modify my resume per application to include keywords from the job description, which sounds like what the service you paid for was doing, though I'd imagine they're much more efficient. I'll consider it, but that is a lot of money, especially when I've made it to final interviews myself in a good number of cases.
I first hired the resume writer when I started applying for CIO, VP, and AVP positions and wanted as much help as possible preparing my materials for an executive search process. I did buy their most expensive service, so I suggest them for anyone who is struggling to get to the interview stage or who feels like they have experience but can't put it down into the right format, they they have less expensive options. Sometimes that impartial outside perspective makes all the difference.
Good luck on the PM route!
I’ve done both PM and BPA work; currently employed as a datamonkey doing more traditional fullstack dev stuff.
My top suggestion by a mile is to get your PMP certification, assuming you’re confident you like PM work. It will also be a nice bonus even if you do wind up a BPA or something more in that vein.
Play up your SQL skills on your resume. Tons of analyst roles will require nothing more, but if you can find time to put together a portfolio piece or two together using any scripting language you like - just to show basic competence - it’ll be another nice bonus, though not necessary at all.
The bachelors is a great idea. Masters is definitely not needed and probably more of a liability than anything else.
Good luck, and hope this helps!
Thanks, I appreciate the advice. I usually do mention the SQL experience on my resume (though I have a few variants for different types of jobs I've applied for). I'm currently taking a data analytics course and maybe I'll try to take inspiration from the projects I'll be completing and put something similar up on my website.
I'm always nervous about certification exams, and looking more at the PMP I'm not sure I'd be able to qualify to even apply. My PM-lite work would be a bit of a stretch to equate to "experience leading projects." I'll keep that in mind after I get my bachelors and possibly have more opportunities to get some real PM experience.
Ah whoops, I’m rusty - CAPM is the cert you’ll want without prior experience. Both tests are equally useless BS (in terms of content), but they open a ton of doors.
Either way though, you’re working in the right direction and shouldn’t have too much trouble once you land your bachelor’s.
Reflections on the current state of affairs (and honestly the last decade or so of working and applying for jobs):
There's honestly probably a lot more to reflect upon and offer, but I think this is a good start for a list of important reflections and notes on how to be successful at your job.
Tons of good advice here, and this point is probably the most actionable for me currently:
I can't really give hard numbers for most of what I've done (internal process improvement is harder to measure than sales volume), but I do have at least one metric that comes to mind saved, and I should be able to list something like "implemented process that saves X hours per new submission" or similar for some others.
You can back of the napkin calculate out the estimated effect for all employees it applies to and call it resulting in x hundred/thousand hours saved per year. In large companies small scale efficiency projects can have really huge effects. If you're at a smaller company the hours per task might be the better looking metric. Scale as appropriate.
Older topic.
Does anyone have a "feel" for what's a good area of tech to learn, to update skills? What kind of "certification" or technology will be in demand in the coming few years?
On job ads, saw a bunch of words like uipath, RPA and I don't even know what those are.
If you were in software or software adjacent and want to pick up a new skill, what would you recommend?
I dont even know what it is yet......do you mind telling me a bit more about the job posting? If there is a new race to a new bottom I want to hear about it....and try to stay just ahead if possible...