I fail to see the irony here; Chinese culture has always been extremely spiritual and superstitious. They simply do not follow the principles of Abrahamic religion, which places large emphasis on...
It is one of history’s more striking ironies: the People’s Republic of China, an officially atheist, Marxist-Leninist regime that has long sought to suppress all forms of organized religion, now finds itself caught in a tidal wave of superstition.
I fail to see the irony here; Chinese culture has always been extremely spiritual and superstitious. They simply do not follow the principles of Abrahamic religion, which places large emphasis on hard rules and monotheism, but rather mix various concepts with vibes and societal norms. And this seems to be exactly what the article is describing.
I guess the main takeaway is that there is an unexpected surge of it amongst the youth, but the article's presentation seems a bit exaggerated.
Atheist doesn't even mean non-religious. It's the rejection of deities. And given the dominant religions are theist, rejecting a religion, likely to be theist, has been conflated to mean atheist....
Atheist doesn't even mean non-religious. It's the rejection of deities.
And given the dominant religions are theist, rejecting a religion, likely to be theist, has been conflated to mean atheist. (Especially with English being a language from a traditionally theist region.)
Interesting, I have literally never thought about that (the word exists in my first language as well). What would you then call someone who’s not following any religion, whether said religion is...
Interesting, I have literally never thought about that (the word exists in my first language as well).
What would you then call someone who’s not following any religion, whether said religion is with a theist belief system or not?
Not the person you asked, but I think that’s an interesting question, and it makes me think of John Green’s Crash Course series on religion, the first episode of which asks exactly that. I fell...
Not the person you asked, but I think that’s an interesting question, and it makes me think of John Green’s Crash Course series on religion, the first episode of which asks exactly that. I fell off after the first five episodes and haven’t had the chance to catch up, so I make no promises about the series after that, but I thoroughly enjoyed the episodes that I have managed to catch so far.
I would say it's highly ironic. The article describes brand new superstitions, not traditional ones that were briefly interrupted by regime change. ( See this short Chinese BBC article from 2001...
I would say it's highly ironic.
The article describes brand new superstitions, not traditional ones that were briefly interrupted by regime change. ( See this short Chinese BBC article from 2001 about efforts to target traditional superstitions since 1970s, and especially Fa Lun Gung 1999)
Crystal are new. AI analyses are new. Dreams of becoming a social media fortuneteller is new. Workshops to learn crystal nonsense to scam others is also new.
There's not a lot of let's sacrifice chickens to ancestors, not a lot of marrying your kids based on ancestral whims, not a lot of fasting, praying, incense lighting, bell striking, talismen burning, weird tea drinking, Taoist dancing, fire bowl leaping, graveside worshipping, pomelo leaves bathing kind of superstition. And this breakaway was because of the intense efforts of the regime to promote scientific thinking and placing trust in technology.
The irony is that the new superstitions arose precisely because folks have their faith in tech and science.
Important sidenote: Falun Gong not any old tradional belief, but a cult with a propaganda arm, not unlike scientology: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong. Doesn't make the violent...
Important sidenote: Falun Gong not any old tradional belief, but a cult with a propaganda arm, not unlike scientology: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong. Doesn't make the violent repression right, but still.
Ah, yes! It's such a weird cult, that one. They're going around saying they're the one true OG china, in fact. It's spinning literal space wheels mixed with a lot of money. For folks who don't...
Ah, yes! It's such a weird cult, that one. They're going around saying they're the one true OG china, in fact. It's spinning literal space wheels mixed with a lot of money. For folks who don't know, they're the people who put on the Shen Yun dance shows in major cities.
Falun Gong is not a traditional superstition; it's an extremist religion that was founded in the 1990s. Crystal healing is not new, it's been used in ancient Chinese medicine for thousands of...
See this short Chinese BBC article from 2001 about efforts to target traditional superstitions since 1970s, and especially Fa Lun Gung 1999
Falun Gong is not a traditional superstition; it's an extremist religion that was founded in the 1990s.
Crystal are new. AI analyses are new. Dreams of becoming a social media fortuneteller is new. Workshops to learn crystal nonsense to scam others is also new.
Crystal healing is not new, it's been used in ancient Chinese medicine for thousands of years with a particular focus on jade. AI horoscopes are new, but horoscopes aren't. Taking apprenticeships to learn either is also not new.
There's not a lot of let's sacrifice chickens to ancestors, not a lot of marrying your kids based on ancestral whims, not a lot of fasting, praying, incense lighting, bell striking, talismen burning, weird tea drinking, Taoist dancing, fire bowl leaping, graveside worshipping, pomelo leaves bathing kind of superstition.
Plenty of these are still around, especially the fasting, praying, incense lighting, and bell striking. Not to mention numerology (4 = death, 8 = wealth), zodiac horoscopes, feng shui, alternative medicine (acupuncture, herbal treatments, aura focusing exercises, electroshock therapy), color superstitions (red = good luck, black = death), good luck talismans (福), and religion in general (see this huge list of Buddhist temples).
And don't get me started on wedding superstitions, you could probably write a whole thesis dissertation on those.
Meet the new superstitions, just like the old superstitions. I see your points, and meet you half way : 換湯不換藥 --> the broth has changed but the medicinal "active ingredients" have not. The younger...
Meet the new superstitions, just like the old superstitions.
I see your points, and meet you half way : 換湯不換藥 --> the broth has changed but the medicinal "active ingredients" have not. The younger citizens may not go for old man at a tiny desk with a trained bird and paper stripes fortune telling, for physical palm, face, ear, tongue reading. But they would go for the new broth of sending in photos of palm, face ear and tongue to AI fortune teller. They may not want to drink talisman water, but they'll probably take AI advice and eat at sponsored partner's to boost a particular element or Chi alignment or whatever. They might still move their furniture around for better Feng Shui and place decorative animal jade or metal dragons or whatnot, but they are probably getting this advice from an app rather than a dude dressed in a robe.
But yeah the 八字 紫微斗數 (birth numbers) elements are uniquely Chinese and the same old superstitions, even if the source is now different with an App vs ye Olde 通勝 (farmers' almanac?) combined with newer crystal stuff and pseudoscience mumble and "Western" astrology mixed in.
It’s not just that the Chinese government is officially atheist. Organized religion is restricted, though less so since the 1970’s. Apparently a lot of Christians in China belong to “underground”...
It’s not just that the Chinese government is officially atheist. Organized religion is restricted, though less so since the 1970’s. Apparently a lot of Christians in China belong to “underground” or “house” churches.
At least for religion the Taiping rebellion seems like relevant context, though it's hard for me to appreciate how much something like 20-30 million dying under a rebellion of a syncretic brother...
At least for religion the Taiping rebellion seems like relevant context, though it's hard for me to appreciate how much something like 20-30 million dying under a rebellion of a syncretic brother of Christ lingers in a cultural consciousness after a century or so.
If I remember right, the CCP did clamp down on things like Confucianism but they've since leaned into it. They clamped down on I Ching, feng shui, and religions, but promoted a variety of superstitious/pseudoscientific Traditional Chinese Medicine claims.
An example that comes to mind of top-down superstition is the Beijing Olympics starting at 8:08:08 p.m. on 8/8/2008, for the lucky "8" theme (or maybe they're just big 808 fans?).
I have mixed feelings about the CCP and its methods, but I think that people are being overly simplistic in labelling them as "evil" when they're really just utilitarian and pragmatic about the...
I have mixed feelings about the CCP and its methods, but I think that people are being overly simplistic in labelling them as "evil" when they're really just utilitarian and pragmatic about the realities of governing a historically unstable country with 1 bn+ souls.
They're tight about social control because historically each time China has had a hiccup in social stability, millions or tens of millions of people died, needlessly.
I fail to see the irony here; Chinese culture has always been extremely spiritual and superstitious. They simply do not follow the principles of Abrahamic religion, which places large emphasis on hard rules and monotheism, but rather mix various concepts with vibes and societal norms. And this seems to be exactly what the article is describing.
I guess the main takeaway is that there is an unexpected surge of it amongst the youth, but the article's presentation seems a bit exaggerated.
Atheist doesn't even mean non-religious. It's the rejection of deities.
And given the dominant religions are theist, rejecting a religion, likely to be theist, has been conflated to mean atheist. (Especially with English being a language from a traditionally theist region.)
Interesting, I have literally never thought about that (the word exists in my first language as well).
What would you then call someone who’s not following any religion, whether said religion is with a theist belief system or not?
Not the person you asked, but I think that’s an interesting question, and it makes me think of John Green’s Crash Course series on religion, the first episode of which asks exactly that. I fell off after the first five episodes and haven’t had the chance to catch up, so I make no promises about the series after that, but I thoroughly enjoyed the episodes that I have managed to catch so far.
Probably areligious
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/areligious
I would say it's highly ironic.
The article describes brand new superstitions, not traditional ones that were briefly interrupted by regime change. ( See this short Chinese BBC article from 2001 about efforts to target traditional superstitions since 1970s, and especially Fa Lun Gung 1999)
Crystal are new. AI analyses are new. Dreams of becoming a social media fortuneteller is new. Workshops to learn crystal nonsense to scam others is also new.
There's not a lot of let's sacrifice chickens to ancestors, not a lot of marrying your kids based on ancestral whims, not a lot of fasting, praying, incense lighting, bell striking, talismen burning, weird tea drinking, Taoist dancing, fire bowl leaping, graveside worshipping, pomelo leaves bathing kind of superstition. And this breakaway was because of the intense efforts of the regime to promote scientific thinking and placing trust in technology.
The irony is that the new superstitions arose precisely because folks have their faith in tech and science.
Important sidenote: Falun Gong not any old tradional belief, but a cult with a propaganda arm, not unlike scientology: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong. Doesn't make the violent repression right, but still.
Ah, yes! It's such a weird cult, that one. They're going around saying they're the one true OG china, in fact. It's spinning literal space wheels mixed with a lot of money. For folks who don't know, they're the people who put on the Shen Yun dance shows in major cities.
Falun Gong is not a traditional superstition; it's an extremist religion that was founded in the 1990s.
Crystal healing is not new, it's been used in ancient Chinese medicine for thousands of years with a particular focus on jade. AI horoscopes are new, but horoscopes aren't. Taking apprenticeships to learn either is also not new.
Plenty of these are still around, especially the fasting, praying, incense lighting, and bell striking. Not to mention numerology (4 = death, 8 = wealth), zodiac horoscopes, feng shui, alternative medicine (acupuncture, herbal treatments, aura focusing exercises, electroshock therapy), color superstitions (red = good luck, black = death), good luck talismans (福), and religion in general (see this huge list of Buddhist temples).
And don't get me started on wedding superstitions, you could probably write a whole thesis dissertation on those.
Meet the new superstitions, just like the old superstitions.
I see your points, and meet you half way : 換湯不換藥 --> the broth has changed but the medicinal "active ingredients" have not. The younger citizens may not go for old man at a tiny desk with a trained bird and paper stripes fortune telling, for physical palm, face, ear, tongue reading. But they would go for the new broth of sending in photos of palm, face ear and tongue to AI fortune teller. They may not want to drink talisman water, but they'll probably take AI advice and eat at sponsored partner's to boost a particular element or Chi alignment or whatever. They might still move their furniture around for better Feng Shui and place decorative animal jade or metal dragons or whatnot, but they are probably getting this advice from an app rather than a dude dressed in a robe.
But yeah the 八字 紫微斗數 (birth numbers) elements are uniquely Chinese and the same old superstitions, even if the source is now different with an App vs ye Olde 通勝 (farmers' almanac?) combined with newer crystal stuff and pseudoscience mumble and "Western" astrology mixed in.
It’s not just that the Chinese government is officially atheist. Organized religion is restricted, though less so since the 1970’s. Apparently a lot of Christians in China belong to “underground” or “house” churches.
At least for religion the Taiping rebellion seems like relevant context, though it's hard for me to appreciate how much something like 20-30 million dying under a rebellion of a syncretic brother of Christ lingers in a cultural consciousness after a century or so.
If I remember right, the CCP did clamp down on things like Confucianism but they've since leaned into it. They clamped down on I Ching, feng shui, and religions, but promoted a variety of superstitious/pseudoscientific Traditional Chinese Medicine claims.
An example that comes to mind of top-down superstition is the Beijing Olympics starting at 8:08:08 p.m. on 8/8/2008, for the lucky "8" theme (or maybe they're just big 808 fans?).
Oh yeah I don't think the number-based superstition ever went away. You can get a cheaper phone number if it contains a bunch of the number 4.
I have mixed feelings about the CCP and its methods, but I think that people are being overly simplistic in labelling them as "evil" when they're really just utilitarian and pragmatic about the realities of governing a historically unstable country with 1 bn+ souls.
They're tight about social control because historically each time China has had a hiccup in social stability, millions or tens of millions of people died, needlessly.