30 votes

Trump eliminates federal anti-racism training, calling it “a sickness”

30 comments

  1. [8]
    RNG
    Link
    I'm not trying to stir the pot or make enemies here, but I think we should all ask ourselves Does this belong on Tildes? I'm not a fan of Pres. Trump. Full disclosure: I best describe my politics...

    I'm not trying to stir the pot or make enemies here, but I think we should all ask ourselves

    Does this belong on Tildes?

    I'm not a fan of Pres. Trump. Full disclosure: I best describe my politics as being socialist. But do we need yet another online space that meticulously catalogues Trump's every move? We have lefty discords, subreddits, websites, and "Resistance Twitter", and it is truthfully exhausting to have to see this in every space I go to.

    I certainly see potential discussions about political philosophy, neoliberalism/liberal democracy, and sociological analyses of the current moment to be valuable, but there seems to be something more substantial about those discussions rather than the discussion of some incredibly minor "bad" policy decision.

    What might fit here better

    I think some discussions are incredibly valuable:
    • Implications on police violence and the BLM movement on racial justice
    • COVID-19 and the epistemic shift away from trusting medical professionals and potential consequences
    • How liberal democracy created a Trump, and how the liberal center seems to be in decay
    Discussions that, to me, are NOT valuable (here)
    • Trump tweets (he said a racist thing again/ called COVID a hoax again/ said mean things about the troops again)
    • Trump is the first president in 200 years to do "X"
    • Republican "X" who was a war criminal in the early '00s called out Trump and joined The Resistance
    • Pretty much any article talking about how Trump is breaking decorum and isn't behaving like a proper statesman

    Maybe I'm off-base or ideologically motivated, but I've seen communities that were great places for thoughtful discussion go down the doomscrolling rabbit hole of Trump cataloging.

    22 votes
    1. [2]
      Kuromantis
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I'm honestly not really opposed to your comment, but I have to ask for clarification here: Incredibly minor? If you're talking about the grand scheme of things then sure, Trump has done far more...

      I'm honestly not really opposed to your comment, but I have to ask for clarification here:

      There seems to be something more substantial about those discussions rather than the discussion of some incredibly minor "bad" policy decision.

      Incredibly minor? If you're talking about the grand scheme of things then sure, Trump has done far more severe things than this but this doesn't exactly seem unimportant/'incredibly minor'.

      6 votes
      1. RNG
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        In the context of everything else going on, ending sensitivity training that most people didn't know existed in the first place and then going on to say a racist thing doesn't really move the...

        In the context of everything else going on, ending sensitivity training that most people didn't know existed in the first place and then going on to say a racist thing doesn't really move the needle too much.

        Sure, it's bad, but if every bad thing at this level was discussed here, we'd have 5 new posts daily on the bad stuff Trump does, and it'd simply overwhelm any other substantial discussions that could've been had.

        Please check out r/politics. Actually click on it and scroll. The past 15 posts are from today, each just as bad if not worse than the OP. r/politics used to have content that wasn't Trump Cataloguing, but there simply isn't time for anything else there now.

        6 votes
    2. [2]
      Eric_the_Cerise
      Link Parent
      My dos centavos. For better or worse, the things that Trump does are both important politically and relevant current news. They affect the world I live in. I want to know about it, and I want to...

      My dos centavos. For better or worse, the things that Trump does are both important politically and relevant current news. They affect the world I live in. I want to know about it, and I want to be able to discuss it, most especially here in Tildes where there is still some civility and propriety online.

      This is in ~misc, and probably should have been put in the ~news section, but apart from that quibble, I like seeing this kind of content.

      For my part, I've long since stopped reading anything about what Trump says (, writes, tweets, etc) ... but the things he does matter, and almost nothing this guy has done in his time in the WH has been minor.

      6 votes
      1. RNG
        Link Parent
        I don't disagree. Again, no disagreement here. In order to properly capture every bad thing of the calibre of the original post or worse, we'd need to have 10 discussions a day tearing apart every...

        For better or worse, the things that Trump does are both important politically and relevant current news.

        I don't disagree.

        almost nothing this guy has done in his time in the WH has been minor.

        Again, no disagreement here.

        In order to properly capture every bad thing of the calibre of the original post or worse, we'd need to have 10 discussions a day tearing apart every wrong decision made by the administration. To properly "Trump catalogue" you need to devote pretty much every day to the discussions that are substantial to many folks across the states. And many places do this! I highly recommend r/politics, which does exactly that, and often has some interesting commentary.

        But considering how many online spaces already do a great job of taking on the full-time job of "Trump cataloguing" I have to ask if we need yet another one. When you get into the rhythm of capturing every bad policy move, it squeezes out room for other discussion. You may be skeptical, but check out r/politics, big liberal FB groups, or liberal discords. They are almost entirely devoid of any content or discussion outside of Trump cataloguing because, when is there time?

        5 votes
    3. skybrian
      Link Parent
      I find this tedious as well. But If someone wants to catalog what either Trump or the Trump administration is doing, a weekly topic seems like it might be a good way to keep it out of the way?

      I find this tedious as well. But If someone wants to catalog what either Trump or the Trump administration is doing, a weekly topic seems like it might be a good way to keep it out of the way?

      4 votes
    4. [2]
      TheJorro
      Link Parent
      I think a search shows that not every story involving Trump gets posted here. If something catches people's interest enough, they seem to post it here. Comments and votes take care of the rest.

      I think a search shows that not every story involving Trump gets posted here.

      If something catches people's interest enough, they seem to post it here. Comments and votes take care of the rest.

      3 votes
      1. RNG
        Link Parent
        I may have poorly articulated my point. I don't mean to imply that it is an issue currently, only that discussions about issues like the one linked fit more squarely in the "Trump cataloging"...

        I may have poorly articulated my point. I don't mean to imply that it is an issue currently, only that discussions about issues like the one linked fit more squarely in the "Trump cataloging" section (at least in my mind.)

        No, I am not defending the move, as with most things of this nature there are serious legitimate concerns, I am simply worrying (maybe unnecessarily) that it's these types of discussions that drag a community into Trump cataloging

        7 votes
  2. [8]
    Eabryt
    Link
    Wait, but I was told "...making people sit through this trash to keep their jobs is a crime and just shows how out of control this bullshit is. " You know what's more annoying? That my company...

    Wait, but I was told "...making people sit through this trash to keep their jobs is a crime and just shows how out of control this bullshit is. "

    You know what's more annoying? That my company makes me go through a course every year about how we can't accept bribes, and how we should go to HR or talk to a manager if we think someone is trying to be bribed.

    Sure, I understand the thought process of "it paints white people are inherently racist", I bet that's almost as bad as "all black people are criminals."

    7 votes
    1. [7]
      vektor
      Link Parent
      The only difference being that to a degree one is true and the other is not even close. Everyone, no matter their skin color has some amount of racial prejudices and biases. Or at least so close...

      Sure, I understand the thought process of "it paints white people are inherently racist", I bet that's almost as bad as "all black people are criminals."

      The only difference being that to a degree one is true and the other is not even close. Everyone, no matter their skin color has some amount of racial prejudices and biases. Or at least so close to everyone that I'd consider a person being provably without racial biases to be a notable find. The question is how much power your prejudice wields in your decisions and how much power your decisions wield in other people's lives.

      20 votes
      1. [6]
        BonsaiDojo
        Link Parent
        But it's not true that white people are inherently racist. That's not even a good way to go about this situation. Pointing fingers isn't the best way to deal with it.

        But it's not true that white people are inherently racist. That's not even a good way to go about this situation. Pointing fingers isn't the best way to deal with it.

        7 votes
        1. [4]
          MonkeyPants
          Link Parent

          Everyone, no matter their skin color has some amount of racial prejudices and biases.

          14 votes
          1. [3]
            BonsaiDojo
            Link Parent
            I agree and that's why targeting white people won't do anything positive.

            I agree and that's why targeting white people won't do anything positive.

            6 votes
            1. [2]
              moonbathers
              Link Parent
              White people are "targeted" because white people hold most of the power in this country. All but one president has been white, every vice president has been white, Congress has always been more...

              White people are "targeted" because white people hold most of the power in this country. All but one president has been white, every vice president has been white, Congress has always been more white than the population as a whole, you get the idea. While everyone does have biases regardless of race, the reason the country is going to shit right now is because of racist white people. If you feel targeted or threatened by these sort of initiatives you need to check your priorities, because lots of white people don't feel targeted or threatened because they try their best to not be racist.

              18 votes
              1. eladnarra
                Link Parent
                Plus, white people (as a group in the US) benefit more from racism and are much less likely to experience it (if ever). So not only are we (as a group) most able to enact change because of...

                Plus, white people (as a group in the US) benefit more from racism and are much less likely to experience it (if ever). So not only are we (as a group) most able to enact change because of institutional racism putting us in positions of power, we're the ones most likely to get defensive or simply not see it. We're the ones who need these types of classes the most.

                6 votes
        2. no_exit
          Link Parent
          you're literally just repeating Trump's mischaracterization of CRT here. obviously nobody is born a racist, it's a product of socialization.

          you're literally just repeating Trump's mischaracterization of CRT here. obviously nobody is born a racist, it's a product of socialization.

          4 votes
  3. [13]
    vegai
    Link
    That's not a bad move. I'm sure lots of moderates are on his side on this.

    That's not a bad move. I'm sure lots of moderates are on his side on this.

    4 votes
    1. [2]
      ohyran
      Link Parent
      One of the Linux people I've sort of kept an eye on who is kinda popular (although less now) and a bit of a shit has become complete "wooo trump!" lately. He was ... well "moderate" works. You...

      One of the Linux people I've sort of kept an eye on who is kinda popular (although less now) and a bit of a shit has become complete "wooo trump!" lately. He was ... well "moderate" works. You know those "I don't care about politics. Lets just be cool to each other! Yeah!" and now "That guy was shot because he had it coming."

      4 votes
      1. vegai
        Link Parent
        It's frustrating, but in order to gain power in a democratic society, that segment needs to be thought of as well. In longer run, you can of course hope to educate these people, but unfortunately...

        It's frustrating, but in order to gain power in a democratic society, that segment needs to be thought of as well. In longer run, you can of course hope to educate these people, but unfortunately the other side is trying to do that as well. Manipulation of this largest segment might just be a necessity in politics if you wish to gain any sort of power.

        6 votes
    2. [10]
      ThatFanficGuy
      Link Parent
      I fail to see how beheading a measure against one of the leading causes of suffering in the US is not a bad move.

      I fail to see how beheading a measure against one of the leading causes of suffering in the US is not a bad move.

      14 votes
      1. [9]
        Kuromantis
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I'm guessing what he means by this is that moderates that don't see themselves as enforcing or benefitting from racism will easily buy into his rhetoric that this law "totally says exactly that"?...

        I'm guessing what he means by this is that moderates that don't see themselves as enforcing or benefitting from racism will easily buy into his rhetoric that this law "totally says exactly that"? But then again, polarization seems to be way too high for that to be effective.

        4 votes
        1. [8]
          ThatFanficGuy
          Link Parent
          In other words, some US citizens will buy into their president peddling bullshit. I can see that happening. It's by no means a good thing.

          In other words, some US citizens will buy into their president peddling bullshit.

          I can see that happening. It's by no means a good thing.

          5 votes
          1. [7]
            Micycle_the_Bichael
            Link Parent
            I think vegai is saying “bad move” in terms of election chances rather than morality. While I think this is a fucking terrible thing, I don’t think it’s a “bad move” in that I don’t think it’ll...

            I think vegai is saying “bad move” in terms of election chances rather than morality. While I think this is a fucking terrible thing, I don’t think it’s a “bad move” in that I don’t think it’ll make trump less popular with people who would consider voting for him. Which, again, to your point, is a total condemnation of America and it’s issues with history and racism.

            8 votes
            1. vegai
              Link Parent
              Yes, exactly so. Sorry for being too concise.

              I think vegai is saying “bad move” in terms of election chances rather than morality.

              Yes, exactly so. Sorry for being too concise.

              7 votes
            2. [5]
              ThatFanficGuy
              Link Parent
              There are usually clarifiers to go with secondary meanings. Of all places, Tildes is the place to ask for those.

              I think vegai is saying “bad move” in terms of election chances rather than morality.

              There are usually clarifiers to go with secondary meanings.

              Of all places, Tildes is the place to ask for those.

              1 vote
              1. [4]
                cfabbro
                Link Parent
                You could always ask @vegai for some clarification on their exact meaning... but I'm with Kuro and Micycle on this in assuming that they meant it's not a bad move politically speaking, given they...

                You could always ask @vegai for some clarification on their exact meaning... but I'm with Kuro and Micycle on this in assuming that they meant it's not a bad move politically speaking, given they specifically said "lots of moderates are on his side on this"... which sadly might be true. Unfortunately there seem to a lot of white people, even self-professed "moderates" in the US, that are vehemently against anything they see as "reverse-racism" (against whites specifically) such as affirmative action, diversity training, etc. It's absolutely ridiculous IMO, but it's what they feel, and Trump is stoking that fear/anger. :(

                4 votes
                1. [3]
                  ThatFanficGuy
                  Link Parent
                  I've seen a surprising amount of reverse-racism passive-aggressive defensive on Tildes. It offends me that such a thoughtful forum could have such sentiment spreading freely. I find it easier to...

                  You could always ask @vegai for some clarification on their exact meaning

                  I've seen a surprising amount of reverse-racism passive-aggressive defensive on Tildes. It offends me that such a thoughtful forum could have such sentiment spreading freely. I find it easier to quell it immediately. I'm an open-minded person, eager to converse with opposing ideas, but I'm just close-minded enough to not give this particular idea a pass.

                  In all of this thought process, it never occurred to me that if something quacks like a duck, it might very well be a squirrel.

                  1 vote
                  1. cfabbro
                    (edited )
                    Link Parent
                    Sometimes they actually are just squirrels despite their occasional quacking sounds. ;) I have had several conversations on here over the years with other users from the US who are strangely of...

                    Sometimes they actually are just squirrels despite their occasional quacking sounds. ;) I have had several conversations on here over the years with other users from the US who are strangely of the mindset that "affirmative action = reverse racism = ungood" and "meritocracy = doubleplusgood" despite demonstrably being allies in all other respects. I typically link them to Meritocracy: the great delusion that ingrains inequality and The Myth of Reverse Racism, since those authors articulated the arguments better than I ever could, and at least once so far my having done that apparently changed that someone's mind on the issue.

                    5 votes
                  2. vegai
                    Link Parent
                    This thread disappoints me a bit as well. Lots of misunderstanding that admittedly rose from my comment being too brief. Sorry about that.

                    This thread disappoints me a bit as well. Lots of misunderstanding that admittedly rose from my comment being too brief. Sorry about that.

                    3 votes
  4. Kuromantis
    Link

    Trump’s decision to eliminate the anti-racism training — featuring “critical race theory” and discussions of “white privilege,” according to the directive — comes amid a nationwide reckoning on racial injustice the president has firmly opposed.

    The change was announced in a memo sent to the heads of federal agencies from Russell Vought, director of the Office of Management and Budget. Vought wrote that Trump ordered the sessions canceled after learning federal agencies are spending millions of dollars training employees in “divisive, anti-American propaganda.”

    The decision is particularly salient, given that it comes amid one of the largest civil rights movements in American history, which has seen ongoing anti-racism protests that have sparked conversations about racial inequities in a number of industries.

    Critical race theory aims to examine the systemic racism people are currently protesting

    Trump’s decision seeks to root out trainings on critical race theory, framing it as an insidious idea that conceptualizes white people and institutions as inherently racist. This is not accurate, however.

    Critical race theory is a school of thought that examines how race and racism is perpetuated through existing legal and cultural systems. It supposes that examining and critiquing social institutions — and creating spaces for people of color to share their experiences — can help create a fairer world. Examining the advantages white people enjoy in social, economic, and political areas (also known as white privilege) is a part of understanding and challenging those systems.

    4 votes