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"Civil War" discussion thread
Here's the IMDb page: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt17279496/
A journey across a dystopian future America, following a team of military-embedded journalists as they race against time to reach DC before rebel factions descend upon the White House.
I saw this movie on a whim yesterday - didn't even realize it was release day. I'd seen a trailer and expected something overly preachy and tacky but was pleasantly surprised. Going in completely blind, I didn't even know this was about combat reporters. I think that was a nice angle.
It was obvious when Jessie asked Lee if she'd take a photo of her if she died that Lee was going to die at the end, photographed by Jessie. I don't think that scene played out as well as it could have. It felt like it hit all of the right beats, but should have defied my expectations a bit.
Kind of a shame we didn't see more of Offerman. It's funny that this is his second apocalypse role in the last couple years (since his big gay episode in The Last of Us).
My favorite bit:
I had the exact same thoughts about Lee's death. Felt very anti climatic. Especially who stupid it was for the younger reporter to try and take that picture.
I was also underwhelmed. A couple people actually laughed in my theater and that made me chuckle as well lol. Lee is clearly smart and capable, so why didn't she stay down? She saves the young reporter, gets up, and just stares at her?
I'm looking forward to seeing Offerman again. I was pretty neutral on him in general, apart from enjoying him in Parks and Rec., but his episode in The Last of Us was mine and my partner's favourite episode, by some way, of that series.
That was the most riveted and stressed I've been while watching a movie in a long while (I'm not really a horror or war movie person, but the concept of this really grabbed me).
I really loved how much it did with so little. The small details and jarring glimpses into a terrifyingly possible world. I thought it was an interesting and probably smart choice not to dive into the politics of the sides or the why of the war, but to focus on the realities of it instead (the horror and the laughter - both incredibly powerful tools).
I was bothered like so many others by Lee's death as it felt so anticlimactic and so pointless. And then I read a comment online that helped me realize that the pointlessness was the point (thinking back to earlier in the movie where Lee was wondering if she'd done any good at all). The other journalists - Jessie, Tony, Bohai, and even Joel - are shown to be adrenaline junkies that make fatally stupid choices. Moreover, they're in it for the glory or the money shot, and not for humanity or integrity or any kind of greater purpose.
And of course: the sound design and photography were absolutely fantastic. That all said, I don't know if I'll ever want to watch this again if I'm not in a very fatalistic mood - I guess we'll see what November brings.
Fully agree. Lee’s death was fully foreshadowed/telegraphed. I wasn’t shook by it either because of it, and because by this point I was a limp dishrag of overwhelmed, but I think both were deliberate choices by AG.
Lee was disassociated/dehumanized by war and violence from the jump. She was already dead inside to an extent and spent the movie trying to protect Jessie from this and/or explain the inevitability of it.
This is about the dehumanization of Jessie. It’s a more horrifying, more alien, and more difficult thing to ask the audience to be moved by- or even recognize. IMO that’s the point. We’ve seen war bring death in literally hundreds of movies. IMO AG was trying to show the dehumanizing, generations-long trauma and damage it brings to people that even do make it through. That’s a much more difficult thing to do and why I respect the hell out of this movie.
Death has been done (to death). This was about the death of the idea that life is precious. This is about dehumanizing people. This is about what we are currently doing to each other in order to justify going to war.
I believe this is what strikes a nerve. I watched two film critics try and talk about this movie on YouTube- one was with a newspaper, and one was with CNN, and the CNN guy kind of refused to analyze or criticize the film at all. He just insisted he didn’t understand what “the film was trying to do”.
That is exactly what the movie is about. It’s the exact same denial of humanity that allows pits of human bodies into existence again. If life isn’t precious, what does that make you?
I think that’s why some people won’t “get it” or won’t “like” it, or will be angry with it, or will try to deny the film its message. Because so many of us are already so dehumanized for whatever reason.
I really should ghost write TED talks. Gotta love Monday morning procrastination rants.
edit: This movie man, it's definitely gotten under my skin. I was just thinking about the journalism aspect of it. Of the exchange at the end re: getting a quote and of Jessie shooting Lee getting shot. Somewhere along the line I heard or read that some native Americans believed that a camera could steal your soul. Just an observation. Pretty sure this film illustrates how media is complicit in dehumanizing people as well.
I just saw it yesterday and your post made some of my random thoughts and confusion about it click better.
It is definitely a film where I had to force myself to try and forget any expectations or precognitions. When I first heard about it I thought it was going to be a traditional war movie depicting all the horrors of war but with the extra element of being American civilians murdering their neighbors. Actually it was more regular military against military. Then later it was clear that the focus was on journalism, and then my expectations fell in the category of being on the importance of objective heroic journalism in wartime. But it wasn't exactly that either. The press people we go on a journey with are their own kind of adrenaline chasing crazies, and there is something deeply unsettling with how they just go around taking pictures like some paparazzi of a man bleeding to death. There isn't really anyone to really root for in this film, because the ending where they reach their goal of getting a shot of the president, their humanity is completely destroyed in the process. It doesn't feel like a celebratory depiction of war journalism at least.
I applaud Garland for not giving us clear answers and letting us reflect ourselves on what we just watched. This review from the Hollywood Reporter also has a good quote on this:
Thank you for saying this. It’s something. I was considering seeing it again in a theater, but it’s too intense for me. I’d buy someone a ticket who was considering going though. I really want the ideas in this film to be a conversation that’s held widely.
I've seen a lot about Lee's death being anticlimactic and I think that's the point, and I think that's illustrated by the context of her death. The entire movie has been building to finding the president. Everyone who dies along the way, whether they're shooting a gun or shooting a camera, is risking everything to get the shot that will mean the most. Lee got caught in the crossfire. As important to she was to Jessie and to the plot, I think it was an appropriate send off. And I think the way they kept it pushin without spending too much time on it was done well. I also think Sammy's death got Lee killed. If Sammy had survived, I don't think she would have spiralled to a point where springing for Jessie was her first impulse.
Alex Garland's last movie tended to dip a bit to much into what I call "nice guy performative feminism". It's the "I'm one of the good ones" spiel".
Which isn't necessary a bad thing but it was more then typically egregious in Men.
I thought this was a huge step on the right direction for him.
It seems like he really got to flex his pure skill as a film maker here. Especially the sound design and editing.
I hate to be pedantic but it's spiel not shpeel.
Have a good day!
Not, OP, but I love well-meaning pedantry, lovely delivery, friend.
P.S. I resisted slipping a howler like "pedantism" into my comment to make your day.
Lmao thanks
Thank you for the summary, I thought this was about the Marvel Civil War movie.
Some people pointed out the trailer makes the movie out as something else although I could tell it is basically about journos in a warzone. Movie on the war itself would have drawn more people into it imho
I liked this more than I thought I would. I think it functions more like an exploitation film (all the gore and hyper violence we see), with the “political” idea being more of a backdrop.
I think the needle drops really show how the film is going more for an entertainment/shock value sort of thing rather than strong messaging. A lot of exploitation films tend to have political undercurrents anyways, and this has vaguely anti-war and journalism messaging.
The action scenes have incredible sound and great editing. And Cailee Spaeny is really a star in the making.