I'm looking forward to, if nothing else, more of Robert Pattinson's Batman. As far as the live action versions go he has the most flawed qualities I look for in Batman. The gold standard is the...
I'm looking forward to, if nothing else, more of Robert Pattinson's Batman. As far as the live action versions go he has the most flawed qualities I look for in Batman.
The gold standard is the DCAU Kevin Conroy one, who has the front of a cold, overly serious tactician but is heavily damaged goods under the hood (*finger guns*). It's an important part of the character because it puts him in contrast with the rest of the DC heroes and more in line with his own rogues gallery. Some of my favourite episodes are where that Batman has to grapple with or acknowledge his own flaws or failings to connect with other people because his childhood trauma has resulted in him being emotionally disconnected and disinterested from any sort of friendship or family. It's also why the endgame result of him finally accepting that he has a friends and family that do care for him is so impactful.
The other ones, as much as I do like them, always had a disconnect between their mental state and their villains and situation. Many of them played a Batman who was just too cool, lending to the popular reading of Batman as a rich guy who beats up poor and neuro-atypical villains for fun. What damage he had in those versions was basically "I'm so angry and lonely, boo hoo".
What I liked about Pattinson's Batman is he had the broken antisocial attitude where he just did not seem to understand other people or their perspectives very well. He didn't exude confidence and quip his way through fights, he was scrappy and determined but also went about things in incorrect and flawed ways. That scene were he biffs a landing really sold me on this version of the character. His emotional conflict with Catwoman was exactly the kind of conflict I've wanted out of a live action Batman the whole time.
Of course, the movie has plenty of flaws and one of my least favourite parts was the Alfred/Bruce relationship. Their emotional conflict and climax was just... hokey and contrived to drive the plot about Thomas Wayne more than it was about or driven by either character.
Up until now, I held that the LEGO Batman had the most accurate version of Batman out of the blockbuster movies (not counting Mask of the Phantasm, as that wasn't much of a blockbuster unfortunately). A similarly antisocial Batman who existed at odds with regular society and had more in common with his villains, and had to learn to get along with and accept friendship and family.
This first movie and its script doesn't inspire me to believe that they will continue this character down to this conclusion but I think the depth and complexity Pattinson brought to the character is doing that theme a lot of justice. And perhaps the next script will address the missteps of the first and tighten things up. As others have pointed out, the first movie felt disjointed at times. A second movie is a good opportunity to find the voice and deliver something greater. It worked for the Dark Knight after all, it can happen again. Especially since the first movie was pretty good overall, and wasn't DOA like the Snyder DCCU movie scripts. I feel good about the second movie being a worthy followup with a version of Batman I can really enjoy.
I don't have a lot of hope for this. The first script was basically a radio drama and everyone loved it. There's no incentive to improve. It had way too much tell, way too little show. The...
I don't have a lot of hope for this. The first script was basically a radio drama and everyone loved it. There's no incentive to improve. It had way too much tell, way too little show. The exposition was lazy and heavy handed.
I fully expect this to double down on every mistake of the previous film.
Chuck me in with the 'loved it' crowd. The main reasons I did were that, in contrast to previous films, it really went all in on the 'World's Greatest Detective' aspect of Batman, a less physical...
Exemplary
Chuck me in with the 'loved it' crowd. The main reasons I did were that, in contrast to previous films, it really went all in on the 'World's Greatest Detective' aspect of Batman, a less physical and more cerebral interpretation of the character that really freed up the story go in a more mystery/thriller direction, and which does naturally allow for a greater emphasis on dialogue which I found quite compelling overall. Paired with the Fincher-esque atmosphere, strong casting, and suitably moody soundtrack, I think all the components gelled nicely into quite a distinctive vision of Batman / Gotham that I'm very keen to see more of.
For what it's worth, I also really enjoyed The Penguin series which rode strong on the classic HBO crime series vibes and Colin Farrell's excellent performance.
I am a fan of Batman. The Batman did fulfill certain criteria which Batman fans will likely consider good because they meet many of our long-held demands. They don't negate the lazy "radio drama"...
I am a fan of Batman. The Batman did fulfill certain criteria which Batman fans will likely consider good because they meet many of our long-held demands. They don't negate the lazy "radio drama" script, but those are good things to have on a Batman film, that is for sure.
You think The Dark Knight, in which Alfred literally sits Batman down to tell him what the Joker's philosophy is ("Well when I was in Burma..."), followed by the Joker expositing his philosphy to...
You think The Dark Knight, in which Alfred literally sits Batman down to tell him what the Joker's philosophy is ("Well when I was in Burma..."), followed by the Joker expositing his philosphy to Batman in interrogation, followed by him expositing his philosphy to Harvey Dent in the hospital, who incidentally spelled out exactly what's going to happen to him and Batman "You either die a hero or...") is less reliant on tell-don't-show than The Batman?
Too much exposition is a common problem for Nolan films: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lsqvmZbskGo I like his films a lot but there is always too much exposition.
I hadn't realised it was a recurrent problem with his movies, but it was something that bothered me with Tenet and Inception, thinking about it - most standout example was Cobb yelling "no it's...
I hadn't realised it was a recurrent problem with his movies, but it was something that bothered me with Tenet and Inception, thinking about it - most standout example was Cobb yelling "no it's okay they're just projections" to Ariadne in the final dream level, after all over half an hour of shooting at and blowing up projections.
Yeah, I couldn’t put my finger on why I didn’t like the last movie, but I don’t really enjoy it. I felt it was overly dark and cynical. Someone just felt “off”. I’m surprised with all the rumors...
Yeah, I couldn’t put my finger on why I didn’t like the last movie, but I don’t really enjoy it. I felt it was overly dark and cynical. Someone just felt “off”. I’m surprised with all the rumors about Reeve’s health we are getting another movie at all.
It was a noir film, but instead of the movie ending the solving of the initial crime, but the world spins on, it then has to mythologize Batman and end on a high superhero note, which is kind of...
It was a noir film, but instead of the movie ending the solving of the initial crime, but the world spins on, it then has to mythologize Batman and end on a high superhero note, which is kind of at odds with the rest of the film. It's a weird mismatch in my opinion.
Yes, and even though i like the Detective concept, i wish they would have gone another route. While, i would love an Batman animated series movie brought to life as a Detective tale. I wish they...
Yes, and even though i like the Detective concept, i wish they would have gone another route. While, i would love an Batman animated series movie brought to life as a Detective tale. I wish they would pivot. They have a limited amount of time with Michael Keaton or George Clooney and could have made an epic Batman Beyond film.
the internet is a funny place to me. in one thread, people were annoyed that its taking so long and wanted it shot and released tomorrow and here you instead get folks acting like the previous...
the internet is a funny place to me. in one thread, people were annoyed that its taking so long and wanted it shot and released tomorrow and here you instead get folks acting like the previous move was objectively bad.
I’m lukewarm on the film too. I liked the noir feel and detective Batman aspect, but I think it was too long and the Riddler really didn’t work for me (both the performance and the writing) — I...
I’m lukewarm on the film too. I liked the noir feel and detective Batman aspect, but I think it was too long and the Riddler really didn’t work for me (both the performance and the writing) — I enjoyed the Falcone/Catwoman/Penguin subplot way more, and felt like the movie should have ended when that was wrapped up.
Mild spoilers
I also couldn’t help but laugh when Catwoman jokingly asks Batman if he wears a mask because he’s “horribly scarred underneath” and he solemnly says “yes”. Like c’mon lol.
I hope the DCU’s Batman feels more like Kevin Conroy/TAS, I’m a little tired of “grounded” Batman.
I'm looking forward to, if nothing else, more of Robert Pattinson's Batman. As far as the live action versions go he has the most flawed qualities I look for in Batman.
The gold standard is the DCAU Kevin Conroy one, who has the front of a cold, overly serious tactician but is heavily damaged goods under the hood (*finger guns*). It's an important part of the character because it puts him in contrast with the rest of the DC heroes and more in line with his own rogues gallery. Some of my favourite episodes are where that Batman has to grapple with or acknowledge his own flaws or failings to connect with other people because his childhood trauma has resulted in him being emotionally disconnected and disinterested from any sort of friendship or family. It's also why the endgame result of him finally accepting that he has a friends and family that do care for him is so impactful.
The other ones, as much as I do like them, always had a disconnect between their mental state and their villains and situation. Many of them played a Batman who was just too cool, lending to the popular reading of Batman as a rich guy who beats up poor and neuro-atypical villains for fun. What damage he had in those versions was basically "I'm so angry and lonely, boo hoo".
What I liked about Pattinson's Batman is he had the broken antisocial attitude where he just did not seem to understand other people or their perspectives very well. He didn't exude confidence and quip his way through fights, he was scrappy and determined but also went about things in incorrect and flawed ways. That scene were he biffs a landing really sold me on this version of the character. His emotional conflict with Catwoman was exactly the kind of conflict I've wanted out of a live action Batman the whole time.
Of course, the movie has plenty of flaws and one of my least favourite parts was the Alfred/Bruce relationship. Their emotional conflict and climax was just... hokey and contrived to drive the plot about Thomas Wayne more than it was about or driven by either character.
Up until now, I held that the LEGO Batman had the most accurate version of Batman out of the blockbuster movies (not counting Mask of the Phantasm, as that wasn't much of a blockbuster unfortunately). A similarly antisocial Batman who existed at odds with regular society and had more in common with his villains, and had to learn to get along with and accept friendship and family.
This first movie and its script doesn't inspire me to believe that they will continue this character down to this conclusion but I think the depth and complexity Pattinson brought to the character is doing that theme a lot of justice. And perhaps the next script will address the missteps of the first and tighten things up. As others have pointed out, the first movie felt disjointed at times. A second movie is a good opportunity to find the voice and deliver something greater. It worked for the Dark Knight after all, it can happen again. Especially since the first movie was pretty good overall, and wasn't DOA like the Snyder DCCU movie scripts. I feel good about the second movie being a worthy followup with a version of Batman I can really enjoy.
I don't have a lot of hope for this. The first script was basically a radio drama and everyone loved it. There's no incentive to improve. It had way too much tell, way too little show. The exposition was lazy and heavy handed.
I fully expect this to double down on every mistake of the previous film.
Chuck me in with the 'loved it' crowd. The main reasons I did were that, in contrast to previous films, it really went all in on the 'World's Greatest Detective' aspect of Batman, a less physical and more cerebral interpretation of the character that really freed up the story go in a more mystery/thriller direction, and which does naturally allow for a greater emphasis on dialogue which I found quite compelling overall. Paired with the Fincher-esque atmosphere, strong casting, and suitably moody soundtrack, I think all the components gelled nicely into quite a distinctive vision of Batman / Gotham that I'm very keen to see more of.
For what it's worth, I also really enjoyed The Penguin series which rode strong on the classic HBO crime series vibes and Colin Farrell's excellent performance.
I am a fan of Batman. The Batman did fulfill certain criteria which Batman fans will likely consider good because they meet many of our long-held demands. They don't negate the lazy "radio drama" script, but those are good things to have on a Batman film, that is for sure.
What do you think is the best Batman movie?
The Dark Knight.
You think The Dark Knight, in which Alfred literally sits Batman down to tell him what the Joker's philosophy is ("Well when I was in Burma..."), followed by the Joker expositing his philosphy to Batman in interrogation, followed by him expositing his philosphy to Harvey Dent in the hospital, who incidentally spelled out exactly what's going to happen to him and Batman "You either die a hero or...") is less reliant on tell-don't-show than The Batman?
Yes.
Too much exposition is a common problem for Nolan films: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lsqvmZbskGo
I like his films a lot but there is always too much exposition.
I hadn't realised it was a recurrent problem with his movies, but it was something that bothered me with Tenet and Inception, thinking about it - most standout example was Cobb yelling "no it's okay they're just projections" to Ariadne in the final dream level, after all over half an hour of shooting at and blowing up projections.
In fariness Tenet has a line that goes "don't try to understand it, just feel it"
Yeah, I couldn’t put my finger on why I didn’t like the last movie, but I don’t really enjoy it. I felt it was overly dark and cynical. Someone just felt “off”. I’m surprised with all the rumors about Reeve’s health we are getting another movie at all.
I will root for it to be good.
It was a noir film, but instead of the movie ending the solving of the initial crime, but the world spins on, it then has to mythologize Batman and end on a high superhero note, which is kind of at odds with the rest of the film. It's a weird mismatch in my opinion.
Yes, and even though i like the Detective concept, i wish they would have gone another route. While, i would love an Batman animated series movie brought to life as a Detective tale. I wish they would pivot. They have a limited amount of time with Michael Keaton or George Clooney and could have made an epic Batman Beyond film.
I would say it was basically Se7en
You can say a lot of things. Those films are not the same.
the internet is a funny place to me. in one thread, people were annoyed that its taking so long and wanted it shot and released tomorrow and here you instead get folks acting like the previous move was objectively bad.
Taste for art is like taste buds: everyone has them, but few can tell shit from salmon
uh-huh
I mean, obviously? tildes is publicly read-able.
I’m lukewarm on the film too. I liked the noir feel and detective Batman aspect, but I think it was too long and the Riddler really didn’t work for me (both the performance and the writing) — I enjoyed the Falcone/Catwoman/Penguin subplot way more, and felt like the movie should have ended when that was wrapped up.
Mild spoilers
I also couldn’t help but laugh when Catwoman jokingly asks Batman if he wears a mask because he’s “horribly scarred underneath” and he solemnly says “yes”. Like c’mon lol.I hope the DCU’s Batman feels more like Kevin Conroy/TAS, I’m a little tired of “grounded” Batman.