I used to be much more into rock and metal music. I started falling off of it in part because I started recognizing this almost subgenre of metal that's like a bully's wet dream. Like there are...
I used to be much more into rock and metal music.
I started falling off of it in part because I started recognizing this almost subgenre of metal that's like a bully's wet dream.
Like there are songs where the whole theme of the song is about the singer talking about how badass he is and how he's gonna kick your ass, but that makes it sound like the singer is the bad guy. So the song is written as though it's a revenge story where the other guy did something bad to deserve being punished.
Except the songwriter didn't bother to come up with a real backstory, so instead there's just a bunch of vague allusions to the idea that someone did something to deserve getting beat up. Lots of "you poked the bear and awakened the beast and now the storm of retribution is going to fall upon you, because I don't start fights but I sure as hell finish them." You know, macho tough guy shit like that.
I feel like I stopped listening to rock music because there got to a point where I'd head those kind of alpha tough guy songs on the radio all the time and I just got sick of it.
This is basically what had gotten me entirely off of country music at the start of the century. And I honestly wonder if it's one of the reasons why Taylor Swift's early country career was so...
Like there are songs where the whole theme of the song is about the singer talking about how badass he is and how he's gonna kick your ass, but that makes it sound like the singer is the bad guy. So the song is written as though it's a revenge story where the other guy did something bad to deserve being punished.
This is basically what had gotten me entirely off of country music at the start of the century. And I honestly wonder if it's one of the reasons why Taylor Swift's early country career was so popular. It's also why I didn't like rap even though I grew up in a neighborhood that was big on it; gangster rap was what was in vogue and all everyone was listening to was full of lyrics that were all about hyping one's self up, and a bit later about being rich. It took a long time to get over my reflexive distaste for it.
This is a problem I've been feeling with Metal a lot lately. A lot of the *core genres display a lot of toxic masculinity and the more traditional metal genres seem to have a fascination with...
This is a problem I've been feeling with Metal a lot lately. A lot of the *core genres display a lot of toxic masculinity and the more traditional metal genres seem to have a fascination with serial killer/horror movie imagery. It gets to me, sometimes, but there are a few bands that tend have more interesting lyrics that I have been going back to when I get tired of the other stuff. And some of the bands that have more aggressive lyrics are at least doing it in more interesting ways than the kind of boneheaded machismo that you're talking about.
There is a lot of that in the genre, but that's because Metal is largely made by and for Nerds, Dorks, Geeks and on. We're not a tough lot, so it's fun to get to listen to music that makes us feel...
There is a lot of that in the genre, but that's because Metal is largely made by and for Nerds, Dorks, Geeks and on. We're not a tough lot, so it's fun to get to listen to music that makes us feel powerful; plus it is an inherently aggressive, posturing genre of music. Listening to Metal is the equivalent of the animal that puffs itself up to make itself look bigger so that other animals will leave it alone.
That said, if that's all one is listening to, yeah it could get tiring, but I can fire off at least a dozen bands with interesting lyrical themes, from Fantasy, SciFi, Being Metal, Smoking Weed, Partying, Sex, Introspection, History, Politics, Social Issues, Environmental Causes and of course, the old standby, Satanism. If you're just listening to stuff about being an Alpha Male God, you're not branching out much and getting into the truly interesting stuff.
Don't get me wrong, I don't listen to Metal as much as I used to after 30 years, but I still listen to a lot of it and there's plenty of interesting bands out there.
I need to echo this: My metal catalog is super deep, but mostly doom, stoner, and sludge. It can’t think any tracks off the top of my head that are close to the toxic masculinity / mindless...
I need to echo this:
If you're just listening to stuff about being an Alpha Male God, you're not branching out much and getting into the truly interesting stuff.
My metal catalog is super deep, but mostly doom, stoner, and sludge. It can’t think any tracks off the top of my head that are close to the toxic masculinity / mindless aggression realm.
The closest I can think of is the tracks on the Blood Lust album by Uncle Acid, but that’s a horror/occult themed album not really “aggro.”
Yeah, I should say that I was mostly sympathizing with OP. I have been somewhat successful at finding bands that I vibe with the lyrics on, especially on the stoner/doom side of the genre. My...
Yeah, I should say that I was mostly sympathizing with OP. I have been somewhat successful at finding bands that I vibe with the lyrics on, especially on the stoner/doom side of the genre. My bigger issue is when I love the sounds of a subgenre but don't really like the typical lyrics of that subgenre. Like, I love the aggressive sound of the more hardcore influenced subgenres like metalcore/deathcore but the lyrics tend to be pretty bad. I do listen to some prog/stoner type stuff (mostly mastodon and a couple others, I'd always love some other recommendations along those lines) but lately what I've really been wanting is something with the aggression of, say, Filth or Kublai Khan TX but with less cringy lyrics. In particular, I'd love to find bands with angry political lyrics like RATM or Rise Against but with a more modern aggressive core influenced sound.
The closest I get to the *cores is probably fantasy x power metal, e.g Falconer and Rhapsody (of Fire), unfortunately. SLEEP is the og of stoner/sludge. More “recent” stoner/sludge/doom has a ton...
The closest I get to the *cores is probably fantasy x power metal, e.g Falconer and Rhapsody (of Fire), unfortunately.
SLEEP is the og of stoner/sludge. More “recent” stoner/sludge/doom has a ton of options like Weedeater, Bongzilla, Monolord, Spaceslug, Electric Wizard, The Wander Midget, Hands of Orloc, etc. Poking around Metal Archives is the best way to find new stuff in my opinion.
I have a couple of problem with this kind of analysis. Firstly, looking at music from the past 50 years obviously doesn't take into account music from before this time, such as the simplification...
I have a couple of problem with this kind of analysis. Firstly, looking at music from the past 50 years obviously doesn't take into account music from before this time, such as the simplification going from Baroque to Classical music. Secondly, it doesn't take into account music from outside the mainstream, which naturally tends towards the most common denominator.
This slightly old but still relevant video from Tantacrul breaks down why these are important. https://youtu.be/VfNdps0daF8
Repetitive music isn't something that's happening everywhere, just in the most popular stuff. If you're bored of it, check out some independent bands on bandcamp or independent radio stations and you'll quickly find something different.
I really like James Acaster's Perfect Sounds podcast for this stuff. Go in with an open mind and don't expect to like everything.
As a metalhead, I definitely contribute to latter trend. I dislike the "more repetitive" part, though. I also feel like modern music sometimes feels like it's watered down (and not only metal, but...
As a metalhead, I definitely contribute to latter trend. I dislike the "more repetitive" part, though. I also feel like modern music sometimes feels like it's watered down (and not only metal, but also pop). But that may just be me getting old.
In what way do you feel modern music is watered down? To me it seems like it is expanding in every direction. I listen to a lot of prog metal, maybe that's just not what shows up in the places...
In what way do you feel modern music is watered down? To me it seems like it is expanding in every direction.
I listen to a lot of prog metal, maybe that's just not what shows up in the places you're looking or in the style you prefer.
Even death and black metal are doing awesome things. Tomb Mold is an old school death metal band that is changing a lot and now has a lot of prog and atmospheric elements. Dissimulator is another...
Even death and black metal are doing awesome things.
Tomb Mold is an old school death metal band that is changing a lot and now has a lot of prog and atmospheric elements.
Dissimulator is another cool new band that came out of nowhere (at least for me).
Excellent point. Yes, I also like prog, though I strongly prefer thrash, death, and melo death with some power metal thrown into the mix, just for fun. What I feel is watered down are the metal...
Excellent point. Yes, I also like prog, though I strongly prefer thrash, death, and melo death with some power metal thrown into the mix, just for fun. What I feel is watered down are the metal charts. If I want to discover new things, I listen to those. But maybe this is very skewed because core and modern metal is so popular. Or, as I said, it may very well be just an unjustified feeling.
While I know the headline and study could contribute to thoughts of modern music dying and not being as good as the old days, I find the results to be of little significance to a music listener's...
While I know the headline and study could contribute to thoughts of modern music dying and not being as good as the old days, I find the results to be of little significance to a music listener's experience. More music is being released than ever, so although music might be 15% more repetitive on average, there is a greater quantity of unique music to choose from. The internet makes it easier to find less popular music with a click of a button and algorithms will recommend songs you like, even more unique ones than average if that's what you value.
Yeah, this reminds me of the old meme of "wow music is so trash today look at these lyrics: baby baby baby oh baby baby baby no baby baby baby" Or the inverse Exhibit B It's completely...
Yeah, this reminds me of the old meme of "wow music is so trash today look at these lyrics: baby baby baby oh baby baby baby no baby baby baby"
It's completely meaningless. There is more music of all types than time to listen to it. It's not like pop music used to be high quality, it's just that it had other low-quality conceits (Ayy, bitch, wait 'til you see my dick/Wait 'til you see my dick/Ayy, bitch, wait 'til you see my dick/I'ma beat that pussy up/Ayy, bitch, wait 'til you see my dick/Wait 'til you see my dick/Ayy bitch, wait 'til you see my dick/I'ma beat that pussy up) instead of anger. So the general audience isn't really getting a lower quality of music. And if you want to put in a modicum of work to find something else, you can always find Sufjan Stevens.
Thanks for sharing the article! After skimming it, I feel like the study doesn't prove anything. The dataset is from last.fm users, which means the songs represented for each year are not randomly...
Thanks for sharing the article! After skimming it, I feel like the study doesn't prove anything. The dataset is from last.fm users, which means the songs represented for each year are not randomly selected. The songs examined from 1974, for instance, would be the songs/lyrics that last.fm users listened/read on last.fm, which means not the ones listened to in 1974. Time has done the job of filtering out flash-in-the-pan songs from 1974.
All the study can really say is that people who listen to old music today pick out songs that are more complicated lyrically than what is popular with people who listen to contemporary music. The same could be said of literature--those who like reading classics prefer novels with richer language compared to people who like reading only contemporary novels.
I used to be much more into rock and metal music.
I started falling off of it in part because I started recognizing this almost subgenre of metal that's like a bully's wet dream.
Like there are songs where the whole theme of the song is about the singer talking about how badass he is and how he's gonna kick your ass, but that makes it sound like the singer is the bad guy. So the song is written as though it's a revenge story where the other guy did something bad to deserve being punished.
Except the songwriter didn't bother to come up with a real backstory, so instead there's just a bunch of vague allusions to the idea that someone did something to deserve getting beat up. Lots of "you poked the bear and awakened the beast and now the storm of retribution is going to fall upon you, because I don't start fights but I sure as hell finish them." You know, macho tough guy shit like that.
I feel like I stopped listening to rock music because there got to a point where I'd head those kind of alpha tough guy songs on the radio all the time and I just got sick of it.
This is basically what had gotten me entirely off of country music at the start of the century. And I honestly wonder if it's one of the reasons why Taylor Swift's early country career was so popular. It's also why I didn't like rap even though I grew up in a neighborhood that was big on it; gangster rap was what was in vogue and all everyone was listening to was full of lyrics that were all about hyping one's self up, and a bit later about being rich. It took a long time to get over my reflexive distaste for it.
This is a problem I've been feeling with Metal a lot lately. A lot of the *core genres display a lot of toxic masculinity and the more traditional metal genres seem to have a fascination with serial killer/horror movie imagery. It gets to me, sometimes, but there are a few bands that tend have more interesting lyrics that I have been going back to when I get tired of the other stuff. And some of the bands that have more aggressive lyrics are at least doing it in more interesting ways than the kind of boneheaded machismo that you're talking about.
There is a lot of that in the genre, but that's because Metal is largely made by and for Nerds, Dorks, Geeks and on. We're not a tough lot, so it's fun to get to listen to music that makes us feel powerful; plus it is an inherently aggressive, posturing genre of music. Listening to Metal is the equivalent of the animal that puffs itself up to make itself look bigger so that other animals will leave it alone.
That said, if that's all one is listening to, yeah it could get tiring, but I can fire off at least a dozen bands with interesting lyrical themes, from Fantasy, SciFi, Being Metal, Smoking Weed, Partying, Sex, Introspection, History, Politics, Social Issues, Environmental Causes and of course, the old standby, Satanism. If you're just listening to stuff about being an Alpha Male God, you're not branching out much and getting into the truly interesting stuff.
Don't get me wrong, I don't listen to Metal as much as I used to after 30 years, but I still listen to a lot of it and there's plenty of interesting bands out there.
I need to echo this:
My metal catalog is super deep, but mostly doom, stoner, and sludge. It can’t think any tracks off the top of my head that are close to the toxic masculinity / mindless aggression realm.
The closest I can think of is the tracks on the Blood Lust album by Uncle Acid, but that’s a horror/occult themed album not really “aggro.”
Yeah, I should say that I was mostly sympathizing with OP. I have been somewhat successful at finding bands that I vibe with the lyrics on, especially on the stoner/doom side of the genre. My bigger issue is when I love the sounds of a subgenre but don't really like the typical lyrics of that subgenre. Like, I love the aggressive sound of the more hardcore influenced subgenres like metalcore/deathcore but the lyrics tend to be pretty bad. I do listen to some prog/stoner type stuff (mostly mastodon and a couple others, I'd always love some other recommendations along those lines) but lately what I've really been wanting is something with the aggression of, say, Filth or Kublai Khan TX but with less cringy lyrics. In particular, I'd love to find bands with angry political lyrics like RATM or Rise Against but with a more modern aggressive core influenced sound.
The closest I get to the *cores is probably fantasy x power metal, e.g Falconer and Rhapsody (of Fire), unfortunately.
SLEEP is the og of stoner/sludge. More “recent” stoner/sludge/doom has a ton of options like Weedeater, Bongzilla, Monolord, Spaceslug, Electric Wizard, The Wander Midget, Hands of Orloc, etc. Poking around Metal Archives is the best way to find new stuff in my opinion.
The paper has some interesting graphs showing the change more visually too which I recommend having a look at.
I have a couple of problem with this kind of analysis. Firstly, looking at music from the past 50 years obviously doesn't take into account music from before this time, such as the simplification going from Baroque to Classical music. Secondly, it doesn't take into account music from outside the mainstream, which naturally tends towards the most common denominator.
This slightly old but still relevant video from Tantacrul breaks down why these are important. https://youtu.be/VfNdps0daF8
Repetitive music isn't something that's happening everywhere, just in the most popular stuff. If you're bored of it, check out some independent bands on bandcamp or independent radio stations and you'll quickly find something different.
I really like James Acaster's Perfect Sounds podcast for this stuff. Go in with an open mind and don't expect to like everything.
As a metalhead, I definitely contribute to latter trend. I dislike the "more repetitive" part, though. I also feel like modern music sometimes feels like it's watered down (and not only metal, but also pop). But that may just be me getting old.
In what way do you feel modern music is watered down? To me it seems like it is expanding in every direction.
I listen to a lot of prog metal, maybe that's just not what shows up in the places you're looking or in the style you prefer.
Even death and black metal are doing awesome things.
Tomb Mold is an old school death metal band that is changing a lot and now has a lot of prog and atmospheric elements.
Dissimulator is another cool new band that came out of nowhere (at least for me).
Not to mention other already known acts like Xoth, First Fragment and Archspire.
Excellent point. Yes, I also like prog, though I strongly prefer thrash, death, and melo death with some power metal thrown into the mix, just for fun. What I feel is watered down are the metal charts. If I want to discover new things, I listen to those. But maybe this is very skewed because core and modern metal is so popular. Or, as I said, it may very well be just an unjustified feeling.
While I know the headline and study could contribute to thoughts of modern music dying and not being as good as the old days, I find the results to be of little significance to a music listener's experience. More music is being released than ever, so although music might be 15% more repetitive on average, there is a greater quantity of unique music to choose from. The internet makes it easier to find less popular music with a click of a button and algorithms will recommend songs you like, even more unique ones than average if that's what you value.
Yeah, this reminds me of the old meme of "wow music is so trash today look at these lyrics: baby baby baby oh baby baby baby no baby baby baby"
Or the inverse
Exhibit B
It's completely meaningless. There is more music of all types than time to listen to it. It's not like pop music used to be high quality, it's just that it had other low-quality conceits (Ayy, bitch, wait 'til you see my dick/Wait 'til you see my dick/Ayy, bitch, wait 'til you see my dick/I'ma beat that pussy up/Ayy, bitch, wait 'til you see my dick/Wait 'til you see my dick/Ayy bitch, wait 'til you see my dick/I'ma beat that pussy up) instead of anger. So the general audience isn't really getting a lower quality of music. And if you want to put in a modicum of work to find something else, you can always find Sufjan Stevens.
Thanks for sharing the article! After skimming it, I feel like the study doesn't prove anything. The dataset is from last.fm users, which means the songs represented for each year are not randomly selected. The songs examined from 1974, for instance, would be the songs/lyrics that last.fm users listened/read on last.fm, which means not the ones listened to in 1974. Time has done the job of filtering out flash-in-the-pan songs from 1974.
All the study can really say is that people who listen to old music today pick out songs that are more complicated lyrically than what is popular with people who listen to contemporary music. The same could be said of literature--those who like reading classics prefer novels with richer language compared to people who like reading only contemporary novels.
Very good points. Methodology is so important, and can often mislead when not considered.