It's pretty meta but, I think the most noteworthy thing about this, is how noteworthy it is. This entire part of the election process is generally completely ignored by the media, devoid of any...
It's pretty meta but, I think the most noteworthy thing about this, is how noteworthy it is.
This entire part of the election process is generally completely ignored by the media, devoid of any public interest.
I was going to periodically check in the certification yesterday, knowing it was going to be long and boring, but I happened to be paying attention when shit hit the fan, and I ended up watched...
I was going to periodically check in the certification yesterday, knowing it was going to be long and boring, but I happened to be paying attention when shit hit the fan, and I ended up watched all of yesterday's events unfold in real time. It's kinda nuts with how accessible live streaming is these days, you can sit safely at home and witness history-making events as if you were there. Arguably, it's more informative than being there in person because you can watch dozens of different perspectives, while getting commentary and updates from everyone else watching.
I even stayed up till 3AM watching the entire rest of certification process after they resumed. I had no doubt what the outcome would be, but I guess I needed closure before I could sleep. As awful an effect Trump has had on the world, there isn't a civics teacher on Earth that could convince me to watch hours of a frustratingly drawn-out and strictly procedural Congressional ceremony.
I did the same. It was refreshing seeing a little fear and fire back in our elected officials. Last time they acted like this was after 9/11 - that lasted about six months (and led to some...
I did the same. It was refreshing seeing a little fear and fire back in our elected officials. Last time they acted like this was after 9/11 - that lasted about six months (and led to some terrible laws). Not quite comparable, though, since that was a foreign terror attack in a distant city from DC, and this was an American riot right in their offices. This was much more personal and immediate.
I could give the republicans the benefit of the doubt on PA if they hadn't been so in favor of those election law changes when they thought they'd win. They only started objecting once it didn't go their way, and that's blatant hypocrisy, so I've a very dim view of any of those asshats that objected 'on principle'. I feel bad for the voters in PA, but those votes flipping to Trump would change nothing anyway and they all know it.
It seems pretty clear to me that this little event didn't sink in. Some of them acted like they saw Jesus yesterday but not nearly enough. If lying on the floor in fear for your life while listening to gunshots and crazy rhetoric on the other side of the door doesn't scare you straight, then nothing will. Now that we know some of them have covid symptoms, perhaps catching the pandemic from an unruly mob will drive the point home and they'll start doing their jobs. They better hope it's not the new strain or they are all taking a trip to the hospital.
I was pretty optimistic about this shock to their worldview yesterday but not today. They can prove me wrong (not likely) with their legislation next session but I won't be holding my breath in anticipation of suddenly having a functional congress. Still too many shenanigans on display for my taste. Drafts of motions to purge republican members from the senate? Are you kidding me? I'm sure that will end well.
As with probably every Trump scandal the last five years, there's always the initial shock and reproach from the right... until a day or so later, they coalesce around a talking point and end up...
As with probably every Trump scandal the last five years, there's always the initial shock and reproach from the right... until a day or so later, they coalesce around a talking point and end up defending him. As soon as I saw the House Republican vote on Arizona's objection, it was pretty clear that no major lessons were learned by them. GOP lead Congressional districts are so gerrymandered, the Trump cult has those seats by the balls for the indefinite future.
It was definitely strange being, in a very limited sense, on the same side as Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence for a moment, but it's probably still naive to believe that their words and actions yesterday are much more or less than their most politically strategic option. I have a tiny bit of hope that they're so fed up with Trump, they might support a last minute impeachment, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
This is already happening. You already saw that YouGov poll showing how most republicans don't think that Trump had anything to do with it and how many of them are somehow blaming Biden for it....
This is already happening. You already saw that YouGov poll showing how most republicans don't think that Trump had anything to do with it and how many of them are somehow blaming Biden for it. Looking at conservative media, I'm seeing all kind of stupid rationalizations, the most common one being that your average Black Lives Matter demonstration is worse than this one.
I've said this on other occasions, but it deserves repeating here: Trump and the Republican party are not the problem, they are the symptom. The real problem is the people who are supporting them. Until we do something about them directly, we will have no peace.
I saw polls today indicating that some 40%+ of the Republican party supported this riot. Let that sink in. 40%. Some 20 million people. We are in a lot more trouble than we know right now.
I saw polls today indicating that some 40%+ of the Republican party supported this riot.
Let that sink in. 40%. Some 20 million people.
We are in a lot more trouble than we know right now.
Yeah. We need a movement in 2024 based around never voting blue or red again. It's the only way forward. One election where everyone boycotts both major parties and casts them out. Don't care who...
Yeah. We need a movement in 2024 based around never voting blue or red again. It's the only way forward. One election where everyone boycotts both major parties and casts them out. Don't care who you vote for as long as it's not the two parties that have failed us so consistently for decade after decade while laughing about it and refusing to change. I think we're just about pissed off enough now for that to work. Who knows where we'll be in four years.
AskHistorians had what is easily one of their best threads of all time yesterday. It's a meaty buffet of American history, the history of Fascism, and many other examples from around the world, presented in typical wall-of-text style.
Uh, we’re actually making some progress because more Democrats turned out in Georgia than Republicans, and you want to suppress the voting for both parties? I am more in favor of the strategy of...
Uh, we’re actually making some progress because more Democrats turned out in Georgia than Republicans, and you want to suppress the voting for both parties?
I am more in favor of the strategy of getting Democrats elected and then putting pressure on them. This is how you show power in what is still a democracy. You don’t have to like them but you need someone who will at least listen.
Third parties can be okay but you need electoral changes such as instant runoffs first.
Yeah, I'm not buying all the old rhetoric about third parties and their chances. I never found them convincing (or often, even rational) in the first place. This is a different world now. That...
Yeah, I'm not buying all the old rhetoric about third parties and their chances. I never found them convincing (or often, even rational) in the first place. This is a different world now. That ship has sailed. If and when they get their act together, I'll change my tune. So far, winning a razor thin election does not make me believe the senate is going to work again, and their grandstanding yesterday mere hours after being chased out of their own building does not bode well.
Put all the pressure you like on the Democrats. Pressuring them with actions like #forcethevote is a valid strategy, but I think you vastly overestimate the chance that'll produce anything other than empty promises. The squad turned around pretty damn fast as soon as they had power - and the progressives in the DNC just make excuses for them. At my age this is a boring, predictable story. There is nothing anyone can do that can put more pressure on them than what happened to them yesterday. That was maximum pressure.
Several senators and representatives seemed more alive, deeply concerned, and ready to drop the obstructionism. Good. I was hoping for that reaction from all of them, but it seems like a third...
Several senators and representatives seemed more alive, deeply concerned, and ready to drop the obstructionism. Good. I was hoping for that reaction from all of them, but it seems like a third were still in business-as-usual mode. Specifically, the entire PA issue felt like the same old obstructionism again. And remember, I've lived long enough to see this show before. Couple times, actually. One might be forgiven for falling for the feel-good unity pitch if it's the first time one has seen it.
I want them to drop the obstructionism and do their jobs. This is deadly serious already as we saw yesterday. We have a pandemic on our hands and a fledgling fascist movement taking root. It is impossible to overstate the risk of this combination to any civilized order. This is precisely the combination of events that ends governments. If that isn't obvious, get the history lesson right here.
Every other developed country has provided in the ballpark of $26k in aid per person in their countries. We've dished out $1800 and maybe soon, $3800. The minimum acceptable response from the fed here is $2k a month for everyone, backdated to last April and maintained as long as the word 'lockdown' is in use. Anything less is insufficient to prevent people from becoming desperate, and as we saw yesterday, desperate people will act out, and are far easier to mislead. This is in no way and in no context defensible. It's abhorrent, and there should be severe consequences.
So, keep in mind when I see an elected official (new guys on their first terms get a pass here) I see the people that are most directly responsible for the mismanagement of this mess. So when I hear their words and see their actions, keep in mind I'm interpreting them with an almost zen-like cynicism that is well-earned from decades of watching this same story repeat every election cycle. I genuinely believe many of them are sociopaths who only open their mouths to tell lies, enriching themselves at the expense of their own country. The older they are, the longer they've been there, the worse I think of them, with a few exceptions. When the good ones get in, they are subverted immediately by the old guard. It's not a swamp - it's a cult.
As far as I'm concerned, the blood of every American who dies from covid or from this period of civil unrest is directly on the hands of every elected official, and it is only there because of their inaction. What happens in the military when there is dereliction of duty, and why don't we apply that to congressmen? Every delay is insulting and I'm just sick of it.
Yesterday was their wake up call. I will have no sympathy or even pity for the ones who choose to go back to sleep. I know exactly what was going through the minds of the protesters yesterday and I know exactly how they feel. It's not something I'd ever do - assaulting institutions like that - but boy do I understand where that impetus comes from. I sympathize more with the people storming that building than I do the people inside it when this went down.
I also know if this doesn't get turned around fast, yesterday was a preview of coming attractions. As much as I may enjoy a Western movie, I don't fancy living in one for the rest of my life. :/
Perhaps it's best summed up in one of our old, sadly underused expressions: Talk is cheap. I'm done with talk. There is only action, or inaction. The excuses and smokescreens and rationalizations are irrelevant in the final analysis.
This seems like too broad of a brush? Some members of Congress continue to be obstructive, but you're condemning all of them. I'm reminded of the story about the Adlai Stevenson supporter who...
This seems like too broad of a brush? Some members of Congress continue to be obstructive, but you're condemning all of them.
I'm reminded of the story about the Adlai Stevenson supporter who called out, "Governor Stevenson, all thinking people are for you!" And he answered, "That's not enough. I need a majority."
It seems like getting a solid majority is both necessary and sufficient.
Also, when you're calculating benefits, don't forget the extra $600 a month for the unemployed.
Yes, all of them, past, present, and probably future. I know that's 'unreasonable' - so are they, and I don't care, and I'm not going to change my mind unless their actions change it. Nothing else...
Yes, all of them, past, present, and probably future. I know that's 'unreasonable' - so are they, and I don't care, and I'm not going to change my mind unless their actions change it. Nothing else will do.
That's how cynical they have made me over the years. I certainly didn't start out like this, and my cynicism stops with government. How else do you view an institution that repeatedly gets it wrong, refuses to act, or acts against the interests of their constituents? If I were doing business with someone and they performed like this, they'd be fired and I'd be on to a better business so fast they'd have whiplash. We don't have that option in government - but that is no excuse for not holding them accountable, either.
It's been one day. I'm watching, and hoping, they get the clue. They can't say they haven't been warned or don't understand the problem or don't know what to do about the problem. They certainly have both the power and the resources to make short work of the problem. They can act and start fixing our democracy or sit there and watch it burn down around them. If they don't shape up, I'm of the opinion that they will deserve what they get when it gets worse, and I won't feel sorry for them. I'll save the sorry for the people who have to rebuild from the wreckage. That's our kids.
I did miss the unemployment benefits - which they failed to renew (surprise, surprise). I also left out the what, 5+ trillion in bailouts that went... where, exactly? Certainly not to the people who needed it. At this rate, by the time they finally decide to do the right thing, we'll be too broke to afford it.
I thought that Ben nailed it yesterday. First time in my life I've heard a senator use the word 'steward' properly and in context in that chamber. I felt for Mitt as well. That man deserves props for going against his party for so long, we need more of that. Steny's speech aptly displays the reaction I'm hoping to see from long term congressmen.
You are confusing unemployment and universal payments. US is one of the few countries offering universal payments. Most countries relied on expanding unemployment benefits. America also has...
You are confusing unemployment and universal payments.
US is one of the few countries offering universal payments.
Most countries relied on expanding unemployment benefits. America also has unemployment benefits, and reasonably generous benefits, but I think social welfare has many gaps in America vs the world in terms of housing and medical and many burdensome requirements to obtain unemployment.
All that would do is cede complete control to hyperpartisans. Do you know what happens when "most people" don't vote? The people that do vote control what happens. And that already happens - it's...
All that would do is cede complete control to hyperpartisans. Do you know what happens when "most people" don't vote? The people that do vote control what happens. And that already happens - it's called confrontational politics (not a bad thing to Google, if you haven't heard about it) and it's how in particular the far right have outsized control. It's all about realizing that only 25% of people actively vote, especially in local elections - 10% are hardcore democrats, 10% are hardcore republicans, so you just need to convince the 5% kingmakers.
Boycotting an election to force change is just... an awful idea in every way.
If you want to change the system, you should vote more at the very least, and imo vote pragmatically.
Normally I'd let this response pass as I'm no stranger to this argument, but as I see it repeated so often I feel like it needs to be addressed, like dangerous misinformation. This is going to be...
Normally I'd let this response pass as I'm no stranger to this argument, but as I see it repeated so often I feel like it needs to be addressed, like dangerous misinformation. This is going to be a bit of a rant, not at you, just in general.
The core of the current corruption lies squarely on the leaders of both existing parties. The shot-callers in the RNC and DNC, specifically. This nonsense is what keeps them in power. They throw their weight around during the primaries and decide who you get to vote for on both sides - and that's not someone who will ever make real changes. That's not their agenda. One single phone call took Joe from zero to hero over a weekend this cycle. That's how this works.
Trump actually out-assed the RNC and broke in. That's what it takes. The good ones can't break through but the demagogues? No problem, especially when people are unhappy. These parties are actually putting us at risk for more Trumps, right now, with their inability to change.
I never suggested the election be boycotted. Quite the opposite - it works better if everyone votes, and especially everyone who has never voted before. Just not for any republican or democrat, unless those people defect from their parties and run under a different ticket or run as independents.
The goal is to get the politicians to defect - I'll wager plenty of them are not happy with the current state of affairs and would jump in a heartbeat if they thought there was a viable alternative. Not everyone in those parties is a hapless lemming, and especially, I suspect the younger congressmen are the most disappointed.
I'm looking for a 'no bullshit' party that's focused on solutions exclusively and has tenable plans to get it done. But that's just me. Whatever parties win will probably be brand spanking new and not carrying the baggage of decades of demonization our current third party groups have. It's not necessarily just one new party winning, either. It's potentially several, in different areas.
The big two can't recover from that. It'll end them, and that's what matters. Until they are out, you will get what they give you and tell yourself whatever stories you like about why that happened. They'll keep juggling red and blue balls for you until the end of time. You'll never see that M4A or UBI or racial justice or real reforms, though. You'll just be distracted by the carnival.
The libertarians are around 15% of the republican party, and not happy. The progressives are at around the same level, 15% of the democratic party, and not happy. There's even a 10% conservative voting wing in the democratic party of late. All you ever need to do is siphon off those people in a split and their parent parties will never, ever recover from the blow. You could win just on the people who have never voted before, if they voted.
The gerrymandering leaves them crippled in any fight that isn't with each other, as well. Shoring up weak districts at the expense of strong ones is all well and good, until your numbers mean nothing anymore and it's a new political landscape. Then you've done nothing but weaken your strongest districts and set yourself up for a takedown.
Normally this wouldn't work because people are satisfied with government and buying into the party line. By the next election I'll be surprised if there's anyone left in America who is still in that camp. Everyone is pissed, and it's definitely going to get worse (new covid strains and universal lockdowns, then an economic reckoning that'll put the great depression to shame). That's the perfect time to turn their anger into a boycott of the establishment.
The usual excuse of 'you'll just make it easier for conservatives to win' is a hangover from the 90s, and not relevant today. It's not about this or that party. It's about not-those-parties. The rest will attend to itself, and you can bet the RNC and DNC would shape up in seconds if this was happening. They've lost their ability to keep each other honest and in check. They only remember their common interests when it's time to quash a threat to their power dynamic.
Once your new parties are in, and almost nobody in the senate chamber has ever been there before, all the old garbage washes away. All the old feuds and dogmas don't even have context anymore in that scenario. This new group has one chance to right the ship and change the things the old guard wouldn't even allow debate on. They can get the fix in... and they'll need to, because the dark money will already be flowing in their direction, and it'll do the same thing to them it's done to the rest - corrupt them. Almost instantly.
Americans could only go for this if they are livid and looking to punish the RNC/DNC. Plenty like me are already there. Plenty more will be in that camp by the time this summer is over. I know all of the new progressives will also be in that camp in four years time, even if they don't know it yet. I'm not expecting Biden to knock my socks off, I know better.
The crazy people - in my opinion - are the people who keep ticking R and D every year, as if it matters at all on any truly important issue. Lemmings flipping a lever for a dopamine rush. Fuck the red team, fuck the blue team, that's our impetus for voting. No more significant than a football game. That's what human beings have been reduced to in our election system. It's frankly pathetic, and I'm just... done with it, now and for all time.
People need to demand better, period. Enough is enough.
First, I think the idea that if elements of each party's coalition break off, we somehow end up in a multi-party government with a slew of new, "uncorrupt" parties is fanciful to say the least....
First, I think the idea that if elements of each party's coalition break off, we somehow end up in a multi-party government with a slew of new, "uncorrupt" parties is fanciful to say the least. For one, there's a reason political parties are the steady state - money, knowledge and expertise are key for national elections and connections are key for local ones. It would be very difficult for, say, the liberal wing of the democratic party to be independent for long enough to sustain itself before being reabsorbed.
Secondly, fail to see how it's just a hangover about the 90s. This is predecated on a massive movement away from the two parties at the same time and in roughly equal amounts since in the immediate whichever of the DNC/RNC that has the plurality remaining coalition will have control over the government. And frankly most of the anger you're channeling is from the left, and a very specific segment of the left which cares more about policy than identity politics and social politics. As a result, if it would ever happen, it's hard to imagine anything but a R victory if 10-15% of the democratic party try to make their own party.
Also I find a lot of
Once your new parties are in, and almost nobody in the senate chamber has ever been there before, all the old garbage washes away. All the old feuds and dogmas don't even have context anymore in that scenario. This new group has one chance to right the ship and change the things the old guard wouldn't even allow debate on.
kind of rhetoric disingenuous. There's a lot of old crust in the political system, but there's also a lot of reasons for that. For instance, both party leaders try to avoid votes on items like gun control or immigration because they know it puts Democrats in right leaning states and Republicans in moderate states in a position to lose their races.
That fact doesn't change with new parties. Nothing changes the fact that you have to have a majority coalition and for the most part that involves covering the center. Much of the sweeping reforms both sides want to have (or use to want to have, Republicans seemingly have gave up on having a platform anymore) are locked away not simply because of the figurative "swamp" that wants keep the status quo.
Americans could only go for this if they are livid and looking to punish the RNC/DNC. Plenty like me are already there. Plenty more will be in that camp by the time this summer is over.
To be frank, I have a hard time seeing any of this other than on twitter. For one, the next cycle will be dominated by COVID19 matters - vaccinations, stimulus, there's going to a rally around the flag effect, Congress has proven itself surprisingly accepting of high stimulus amounts (compare the CARES act to the ones after 2008 - yeesh), and there's going to be a tailwind from that.
We'll see. I don't buy these arguments even one cent - I see many of these points as old, grandfathered-in political cliches people follow without thinking (truisms), but time will tell. If our...
We'll see. I don't buy these arguments even one cent - I see many of these points as old, grandfathered-in political cliches people follow without thinking (truisms), but time will tell. If our legislators surprise me, great. I've heard this story before, though, so the ending isn't unfamiliar.
I do expect to end up with two big parties, not a coalition - at least until that first group changes the groundwork of election law for the better. That's not something we'll ever get from the current group no matter how much we press them.
Yep. On the one hand I'm looking forward to not really needing to care about the day Congress certifies the electors in the future. On the other, not caring about those things is sort of what got...
Yep. On the one hand I'm looking forward to not really needing to care about the day Congress certifies the electors in the future. On the other, not caring about those things is sort of what got Democrats in this mess in the first place.
I don't blame the Democrats for how the Republican Party are today. I do however blame the Democrats (of which I am one) for failing to show up to all the elections, which have allowed the...
I don't blame the Democrats for how the Republican Party are today. I do however blame the Democrats (of which I am one) for failing to show up to all the elections, which have allowed the Republican Party to gain the power they now hold.
I think Georgia Democrats deserve a lot of credit for getting out the vote in a runoff election. But at the same time, it seems that a big factor in this win is that a lot of Georgia Republicans...
I think Georgia Democrats deserve a lot of credit for getting out the vote in a runoff election. But at the same time, it seems that a big factor in this win is that a lot of Georgia Republicans stayed home for some reason. I don’t think we can say that the Democratic candidates’ policies had much to do with that?
It also seems unusual for Democrats to pick a black preacher as a candidate? I’m not sure how that generalizes to elections outside Georgia.
Yes, I think “progressive politics is poison” is one of those generalizations that doesn’t generalize. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, depending on local conditions. There are times when...
Yes, I think “progressive politics is poison” is one of those generalizations that doesn’t generalize. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, depending on local conditions.
There are times when it’s unclear whether policy matters that much. Warnock seems to have gotten a lot of mileage out of commercials with his dog? Or maybe that’s just coincidence, who knows.
I keep hearing people talk about making Election Day a federal holiday, and I have no idea how it would help. The people with the most trouble voting are those working in service industries, which...
I keep hearing people talk about making Election Day a federal holiday, and I have no idea how it would help. The people with the most trouble voting are those working in service industries, which rarely close on any holiday.
That seems a large ask, seeing as there is no existing precedent in the US for a mandatory paid holiday. Universal mail-in voting seems easier to implement, and probably more likely to actually...
That seems a large ask, seeing as there is no existing precedent in the US for a mandatory paid holiday. Universal mail-in voting seems easier to implement, and probably more likely to actually boost turnout. A mandatory holiday can still have problems with voter suppression tactics like not enough polling locations in a given district.
I'm really hoping it can be sustained. Hopefully the "establishment" of the Democrats have been paying attention and taking notes from Abrams and all the other grassroots organizers around the...
This recent voter turnout was exceptional.
I'm really hoping it can be sustained. Hopefully the "establishment" of the Democrats have been paying attention and taking notes from Abrams and all the other grassroots organizers around the country.
I do have some hope that these last 4 years will create "permanent" voters. I was able to vote for the first time in 2012, which I did, but then didn't vote for the next 4 years. Finally in 2016 I moved south for work, voted in the presidential election, and then have voted in every primary and general each year since.
Remember when the President of the United States wasn't in the news every single day because of some stupid decision, racist remark or flouting the Constitution? It'll be nice to return to that....
Remember when the President of the United States wasn't in the news every single day because of some stupid decision, racist remark or flouting the Constitution? It'll be nice to return to that.
This vote seals it. I've been worried that Trump wouldn't leave office or that one of his 10,000 cockamamie schemes would work and he'd find a way to stay in office. But now it's official and there's not a damn thing he and his shameful cronies can do about it.
Biden's speech yesterday just confirmed to me that he's the right person for the job at this time. As much as I'd love to see a progressive President, it'll be nice just to have some calm for a while.
At one point he referred to the Electoral College as the Electric College (immediately corrected, just a slip of the tongue.) All I could think about was how much I'm looking forward to things...
Biden's speech yesterday just confirmed to me that he's the right person for the job at this time.
At one point he referred to the Electoral College as the Electric College (immediately corrected, just a slip of the tongue.) All I could think about was how much I'm looking forward to things like that being the big gaffs that Fox News tries to make a big deal.
I agree about the Progressive president but electing progressive senators in the midterm will be a good start.
It was a weird feeling yesterday watching 2 different speeches by Mitch McConnell and agreeing with nearly every word. Something I never thought possible. My feelings
It was a weird feeling yesterday watching 2 different speeches by Mitch McConnell and agreeing with nearly every word. Something I never thought possible. My feelings
Yeah, yesterday was a weird one in that regard. I was nodding my head to the words of guys like Mitch McConnell and Lindsay Graham, and I was rooting for the police during a clash with protesters.
Yeah, yesterday was a weird one in that regard. I was nodding my head to the words of guys like Mitch McConnell and Lindsay Graham, and I was rooting for the police during a clash with protesters.
It's pretty meta but, I think the most noteworthy thing about this, is how noteworthy it is.
This entire part of the election process is generally completely ignored by the media, devoid of any public interest.
I was going to periodically check in the certification yesterday, knowing it was going to be long and boring, but I happened to be paying attention when shit hit the fan, and I ended up watched all of yesterday's events unfold in real time. It's kinda nuts with how accessible live streaming is these days, you can sit safely at home and witness history-making events as if you were there. Arguably, it's more informative than being there in person because you can watch dozens of different perspectives, while getting commentary and updates from everyone else watching.
I even stayed up till 3AM watching the entire rest of certification process after they resumed. I had no doubt what the outcome would be, but I guess I needed closure before I could sleep. As awful an effect Trump has had on the world, there isn't a civics teacher on Earth that could convince me to watch hours of a frustratingly drawn-out and strictly procedural Congressional ceremony.
I did the same. It was refreshing seeing a little fear and fire back in our elected officials. Last time they acted like this was after 9/11 - that lasted about six months (and led to some terrible laws). Not quite comparable, though, since that was a foreign terror attack in a distant city from DC, and this was an American riot right in their offices. This was much more personal and immediate.
I could give the republicans the benefit of the doubt on PA if they hadn't been so in favor of those election law changes when they thought they'd win. They only started objecting once it didn't go their way, and that's blatant hypocrisy, so I've a very dim view of any of those asshats that objected 'on principle'. I feel bad for the voters in PA, but those votes flipping to Trump would change nothing anyway and they all know it.
It seems pretty clear to me that this little event didn't sink in. Some of them acted like they saw Jesus yesterday but not nearly enough. If lying on the floor in fear for your life while listening to gunshots and crazy rhetoric on the other side of the door doesn't scare you straight, then nothing will. Now that we know some of them have covid symptoms, perhaps catching the pandemic from an unruly mob will drive the point home and they'll start doing their jobs. They better hope it's not the new strain or they are all taking a trip to the hospital.
I was pretty optimistic about this shock to their worldview yesterday but not today. They can prove me wrong (not likely) with their legislation next session but I won't be holding my breath in anticipation of suddenly having a functional congress. Still too many shenanigans on display for my taste. Drafts of motions to purge republican members from the senate? Are you kidding me? I'm sure that will end well.
As with probably every Trump scandal the last five years, there's always the initial shock and reproach from the right... until a day or so later, they coalesce around a talking point and end up defending him. As soon as I saw the House Republican vote on Arizona's objection, it was pretty clear that no major lessons were learned by them. GOP lead Congressional districts are so gerrymandered, the Trump cult has those seats by the balls for the indefinite future.
It was definitely strange being, in a very limited sense, on the same side as Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence for a moment, but it's probably still naive to believe that their words and actions yesterday are much more or less than their most politically strategic option. I have a tiny bit of hope that they're so fed up with Trump, they might support a last minute impeachment, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
This is already happening. You already saw that YouGov poll showing how most republicans don't think that Trump had anything to do with it and how many of them are somehow blaming Biden for it. Looking at conservative media, I'm seeing all kind of stupid rationalizations, the most common one being that your average Black Lives Matter demonstration is worse than this one.
I've said this on other occasions, but it deserves repeating here: Trump and the Republican party are not the problem, they are the symptom. The real problem is the people who are supporting them. Until we do something about them directly, we will have no peace.
I saw polls today indicating that some 40%+ of the Republican party supported this riot.
Let that sink in. 40%. Some 20 million people.
We are in a lot more trouble than we know right now.
Yeah. We need a movement in 2024 based around never voting blue or red again. It's the only way forward. One election where everyone boycotts both major parties and casts them out. Don't care who you vote for as long as it's not the two parties that have failed us so consistently for decade after decade while laughing about it and refusing to change. I think we're just about pissed off enough now for that to work. Who knows where we'll be in four years.
AskHistorians had what is easily one of their best threads of all time yesterday. It's a meaty buffet of American history, the history of Fascism, and many other examples from around the world, presented in typical wall-of-text style.
Uh, we’re actually making some progress because more Democrats turned out in Georgia than Republicans, and you want to suppress the voting for both parties?
I am more in favor of the strategy of getting Democrats elected and then putting pressure on them. This is how you show power in what is still a democracy. You don’t have to like them but you need someone who will at least listen.
Third parties can be okay but you need electoral changes such as instant runoffs first.
Yeah, I'm not buying all the old rhetoric about third parties and their chances. I never found them convincing (or often, even rational) in the first place. This is a different world now. That ship has sailed. If and when they get their act together, I'll change my tune. So far, winning a razor thin election does not make me believe the senate is going to work again, and their grandstanding yesterday mere hours after being chased out of their own building does not bode well.
Put all the pressure you like on the Democrats. Pressuring them with actions like #forcethevote is a valid strategy, but I think you vastly overestimate the chance that'll produce anything other than empty promises. The squad turned around pretty damn fast as soon as they had power - and the progressives in the DNC just make excuses for them. At my age this is a boring, predictable story. There is nothing anyone can do that can put more pressure on them than what happened to them yesterday. That was maximum pressure.
I think I missed something. What, specifically, disappoints you about how Congress has acted since the riot ended?
Several senators and representatives seemed more alive, deeply concerned, and ready to drop the obstructionism. Good. I was hoping for that reaction from all of them, but it seems like a third were still in business-as-usual mode. Specifically, the entire PA issue felt like the same old obstructionism again. And remember, I've lived long enough to see this show before. Couple times, actually. One might be forgiven for falling for the feel-good unity pitch if it's the first time one has seen it.
I want them to drop the obstructionism and do their jobs. This is deadly serious already as we saw yesterday. We have a pandemic on our hands and a fledgling fascist movement taking root. It is impossible to overstate the risk of this combination to any civilized order. This is precisely the combination of events that ends governments. If that isn't obvious, get the history lesson right here.
Every other developed country has provided in the ballpark of $26k in aid per person in their countries. We've dished out $1800 and maybe soon, $3800. The minimum acceptable response from the fed here is $2k a month for everyone, backdated to last April and maintained as long as the word 'lockdown' is in use. Anything less is insufficient to prevent people from becoming desperate, and as we saw yesterday, desperate people will act out, and are far easier to mislead. This is in no way and in no context defensible. It's abhorrent, and there should be severe consequences.
So, keep in mind when I see an elected official (new guys on their first terms get a pass here) I see the people that are most directly responsible for the mismanagement of this mess. So when I hear their words and see their actions, keep in mind I'm interpreting them with an almost zen-like cynicism that is well-earned from decades of watching this same story repeat every election cycle. I genuinely believe many of them are sociopaths who only open their mouths to tell lies, enriching themselves at the expense of their own country. The older they are, the longer they've been there, the worse I think of them, with a few exceptions. When the good ones get in, they are subverted immediately by the old guard. It's not a swamp - it's a cult.
As far as I'm concerned, the blood of every American who dies from covid or from this period of civil unrest is directly on the hands of every elected official, and it is only there because of their inaction. What happens in the military when there is dereliction of duty, and why don't we apply that to congressmen? Every delay is insulting and I'm just sick of it.
Yesterday was their wake up call. I will have no sympathy or even pity for the ones who choose to go back to sleep. I know exactly what was going through the minds of the protesters yesterday and I know exactly how they feel. It's not something I'd ever do - assaulting institutions like that - but boy do I understand where that impetus comes from. I sympathize more with the people storming that building than I do the people inside it when this went down.
I also know if this doesn't get turned around fast, yesterday was a preview of coming attractions. As much as I may enjoy a Western movie, I don't fancy living in one for the rest of my life. :/
Perhaps it's best summed up in one of our old, sadly underused expressions: Talk is cheap. I'm done with talk. There is only action, or inaction. The excuses and smokescreens and rationalizations are irrelevant in the final analysis.
This seems like too broad of a brush? Some members of Congress continue to be obstructive, but you're condemning all of them.
I'm reminded of the story about the Adlai Stevenson supporter who called out, "Governor Stevenson, all thinking people are for you!" And he answered, "That's not enough. I need a majority."
It seems like getting a solid majority is both necessary and sufficient.
Also, when you're calculating benefits, don't forget the extra $600 a month for the unemployed.
Yes, all of them, past, present, and probably future. I know that's 'unreasonable' - so are they, and I don't care, and I'm not going to change my mind unless their actions change it. Nothing else will do.
That's how cynical they have made me over the years. I certainly didn't start out like this, and my cynicism stops with government. How else do you view an institution that repeatedly gets it wrong, refuses to act, or acts against the interests of their constituents? If I were doing business with someone and they performed like this, they'd be fired and I'd be on to a better business so fast they'd have whiplash. We don't have that option in government - but that is no excuse for not holding them accountable, either.
It's been one day. I'm watching, and hoping, they get the clue. They can't say they haven't been warned or don't understand the problem or don't know what to do about the problem. They certainly have both the power and the resources to make short work of the problem. They can act and start fixing our democracy or sit there and watch it burn down around them. If they don't shape up, I'm of the opinion that they will deserve what they get when it gets worse, and I won't feel sorry for them. I'll save the sorry for the people who have to rebuild from the wreckage. That's our kids.
I did miss the unemployment benefits - which they failed to renew (surprise, surprise). I also left out the what, 5+ trillion in bailouts that went... where, exactly? Certainly not to the people who needed it. At this rate, by the time they finally decide to do the right thing, we'll be too broke to afford it.
I thought that Ben nailed it yesterday. First time in my life I've heard a senator use the word 'steward' properly and in context in that chamber. I felt for Mitt as well. That man deserves props for going against his party for so long, we need more of that. Steny's speech aptly displays the reaction I'm hoping to see from long term congressmen.
You are confusing unemployment and universal payments.
US is one of the few countries offering universal payments.
Most countries relied on expanding unemployment benefits. America also has unemployment benefits, and reasonably generous benefits, but I think social welfare has many gaps in America vs the world in terms of housing and medical and many burdensome requirements to obtain unemployment.
All that would do is cede complete control to hyperpartisans. Do you know what happens when "most people" don't vote? The people that do vote control what happens. And that already happens - it's called confrontational politics (not a bad thing to Google, if you haven't heard about it) and it's how in particular the far right have outsized control. It's all about realizing that only 25% of people actively vote, especially in local elections - 10% are hardcore democrats, 10% are hardcore republicans, so you just need to convince the 5% kingmakers.
Boycotting an election to force change is just... an awful idea in every way.
If you want to change the system, you should vote more at the very least, and imo vote pragmatically.
Normally I'd let this response pass as I'm no stranger to this argument, but as I see it repeated so often I feel like it needs to be addressed, like dangerous misinformation. This is going to be a bit of a rant, not at you, just in general.
The core of the current corruption lies squarely on the leaders of both existing parties. The shot-callers in the RNC and DNC, specifically. This nonsense is what keeps them in power. They throw their weight around during the primaries and decide who you get to vote for on both sides - and that's not someone who will ever make real changes. That's not their agenda. One single phone call took Joe from zero to hero over a weekend this cycle. That's how this works.
Trump actually out-assed the RNC and broke in. That's what it takes. The good ones can't break through but the demagogues? No problem, especially when people are unhappy. These parties are actually putting us at risk for more Trumps, right now, with their inability to change.
I never suggested the election be boycotted. Quite the opposite - it works better if everyone votes, and especially everyone who has never voted before. Just not for any republican or democrat, unless those people defect from their parties and run under a different ticket or run as independents.
The goal is to get the politicians to defect - I'll wager plenty of them are not happy with the current state of affairs and would jump in a heartbeat if they thought there was a viable alternative. Not everyone in those parties is a hapless lemming, and especially, I suspect the younger congressmen are the most disappointed.
I'm looking for a 'no bullshit' party that's focused on solutions exclusively and has tenable plans to get it done. But that's just me. Whatever parties win will probably be brand spanking new and not carrying the baggage of decades of demonization our current third party groups have. It's not necessarily just one new party winning, either. It's potentially several, in different areas.
The big two can't recover from that. It'll end them, and that's what matters. Until they are out, you will get what they give you and tell yourself whatever stories you like about why that happened. They'll keep juggling red and blue balls for you until the end of time. You'll never see that M4A or UBI or racial justice or real reforms, though. You'll just be distracted by the carnival.
The libertarians are around 15% of the republican party, and not happy. The progressives are at around the same level, 15% of the democratic party, and not happy. There's even a 10% conservative voting wing in the democratic party of late. All you ever need to do is siphon off those people in a split and their parent parties will never, ever recover from the blow. You could win just on the people who have never voted before, if they voted.
The gerrymandering leaves them crippled in any fight that isn't with each other, as well. Shoring up weak districts at the expense of strong ones is all well and good, until your numbers mean nothing anymore and it's a new political landscape. Then you've done nothing but weaken your strongest districts and set yourself up for a takedown.
Normally this wouldn't work because people are satisfied with government and buying into the party line. By the next election I'll be surprised if there's anyone left in America who is still in that camp. Everyone is pissed, and it's definitely going to get worse (new covid strains and universal lockdowns, then an economic reckoning that'll put the great depression to shame). That's the perfect time to turn their anger into a boycott of the establishment.
The usual excuse of 'you'll just make it easier for conservatives to win' is a hangover from the 90s, and not relevant today. It's not about this or that party. It's about not-those-parties. The rest will attend to itself, and you can bet the RNC and DNC would shape up in seconds if this was happening. They've lost their ability to keep each other honest and in check. They only remember their common interests when it's time to quash a threat to their power dynamic.
Once your new parties are in, and almost nobody in the senate chamber has ever been there before, all the old garbage washes away. All the old feuds and dogmas don't even have context anymore in that scenario. This new group has one chance to right the ship and change the things the old guard wouldn't even allow debate on. They can get the fix in... and they'll need to, because the dark money will already be flowing in their direction, and it'll do the same thing to them it's done to the rest - corrupt them. Almost instantly.
Americans could only go for this if they are livid and looking to punish the RNC/DNC. Plenty like me are already there. Plenty more will be in that camp by the time this summer is over. I know all of the new progressives will also be in that camp in four years time, even if they don't know it yet. I'm not expecting Biden to knock my socks off, I know better.
The crazy people - in my opinion - are the people who keep ticking R and D every year, as if it matters at all on any truly important issue. Lemmings flipping a lever for a dopamine rush. Fuck the red team, fuck the blue team, that's our impetus for voting. No more significant than a football game. That's what human beings have been reduced to in our election system. It's frankly pathetic, and I'm just... done with it, now and for all time.
People need to demand better, period. Enough is enough.
First, I think the idea that if elements of each party's coalition break off, we somehow end up in a multi-party government with a slew of new, "uncorrupt" parties is fanciful to say the least. For one, there's a reason political parties are the steady state - money, knowledge and expertise are key for national elections and connections are key for local ones. It would be very difficult for, say, the liberal wing of the democratic party to be independent for long enough to sustain itself before being reabsorbed.
Secondly, fail to see how it's just a hangover about the 90s. This is predecated on a massive movement away from the two parties at the same time and in roughly equal amounts since in the immediate whichever of the DNC/RNC that has the plurality remaining coalition will have control over the government. And frankly most of the anger you're channeling is from the left, and a very specific segment of the left which cares more about policy than identity politics and social politics. As a result, if it would ever happen, it's hard to imagine anything but a R victory if 10-15% of the democratic party try to make their own party.
Also I find a lot of
kind of rhetoric disingenuous. There's a lot of old crust in the political system, but there's also a lot of reasons for that. For instance, both party leaders try to avoid votes on items like gun control or immigration because they know it puts Democrats in right leaning states and Republicans in moderate states in a position to lose their races.
That fact doesn't change with new parties. Nothing changes the fact that you have to have a majority coalition and for the most part that involves covering the center. Much of the sweeping reforms both sides want to have (or use to want to have, Republicans seemingly have gave up on having a platform anymore) are locked away not simply because of the figurative "swamp" that wants keep the status quo.
To be frank, I have a hard time seeing any of this other than on twitter. For one, the next cycle will be dominated by COVID19 matters - vaccinations, stimulus, there's going to a rally around the flag effect, Congress has proven itself surprisingly accepting of high stimulus amounts (compare the CARES act to the ones after 2008 - yeesh), and there's going to be a tailwind from that.
We'll see. I don't buy these arguments even one cent - I see many of these points as old, grandfathered-in political cliches people follow without thinking (truisms), but time will tell. If our legislators surprise me, great. I've heard this story before, though, so the ending isn't unfamiliar.
I do expect to end up with two big parties, not a coalition - at least until that first group changes the groundwork of election law for the better. That's not something we'll ever get from the current group no matter how much we press them.
Yep. On the one hand I'm looking forward to not really needing to care about the day Congress certifies the electors in the future. On the other, not caring about those things is sort of what got Democrats in this mess in the first place.
I don't blame the Democrats for how the Republican Party are today. I do however blame the Democrats (of which I am one) for failing to show up to all the elections, which have allowed the Republican Party to gain the power they now hold.
I think Georgia Democrats deserve a lot of credit for getting out the vote in a runoff election. But at the same time, it seems that a big factor in this win is that a lot of Georgia Republicans stayed home for some reason. I don’t think we can say that the Democratic candidates’ policies had much to do with that?
It also seems unusual for Democrats to pick a black preacher as a candidate? I’m not sure how that generalizes to elections outside Georgia.
Yes, I think “progressive politics is poison” is one of those generalizations that doesn’t generalize. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, depending on local conditions.
There are times when it’s unclear whether policy matters that much. Warnock seems to have gotten a lot of mileage out of commercials with his dog? Or maybe that’s just coincidence, who knows.
Stacey Abrams is a true hero.
I keep hearing people talk about making Election Day a federal holiday, and I have no idea how it would help. The people with the most trouble voting are those working in service industries, which rarely close on any holiday.
I'm fairly sure that most people advocating for it want them to be European-styled manditory vacation days.
That seems a large ask, seeing as there is no existing precedent in the US for a mandatory paid holiday. Universal mail-in voting seems easier to implement, and probably more likely to actually boost turnout. A mandatory holiday can still have problems with voter suppression tactics like not enough polling locations in a given district.
Early voting and voting by mail seem to work pretty well? More can be done but I think it’s more about outreach.
I'm really hoping it can be sustained. Hopefully the "establishment" of the Democrats have been paying attention and taking notes from Abrams and all the other grassroots organizers around the country.
I do have some hope that these last 4 years will create "permanent" voters. I was able to vote for the first time in 2012, which I did, but then didn't vote for the next 4 years. Finally in 2016 I moved south for work, voted in the presidential election, and then have voted in every primary and general each year since.
Remember when the President of the United States wasn't in the news every single day because of some stupid decision, racist remark or flouting the Constitution? It'll be nice to return to that.
This vote seals it. I've been worried that Trump wouldn't leave office or that one of his 10,000 cockamamie schemes would work and he'd find a way to stay in office. But now it's official and there's not a damn thing he and his shameful cronies can do about it.
Biden's speech yesterday just confirmed to me that he's the right person for the job at this time. As much as I'd love to see a progressive President, it'll be nice just to have some calm for a while.
At one point he referred to the Electoral College as the Electric College (immediately corrected, just a slip of the tongue.) All I could think about was how much I'm looking forward to things like that being the big gaffs that Fox News tries to make a big deal.
I agree about the Progressive president but electing progressive senators in the midterm will be a good start.
It was a weird feeling yesterday watching 2 different speeches by Mitch McConnell and agreeing with nearly every word. Something I never thought possible. My feelings
Yeah, yesterday was a weird one in that regard. I was nodding my head to the words of guys like Mitch McConnell and Lindsay Graham, and I was rooting for the police during a clash with protesters.
One for the history books.
Unfortunately.