24 votes

Cow magnets

32 comments

  1. skybrian
    Link
    From the article: ...

    From the article:

    Cattle commonly swallow foreign objects, because they do not use their lips to discriminate between materials and they do not completely chew their feed before swallowing. Sharp metal objects (such as nails or iron wires) are a common cause of hardware diseases.

    ...

    A rancher or dairy farmer feeds a magnet to each calf at branding time; the magnet settles in the rumen or reticulum and remains there for the life of the animal. The magnet is administered after fasting the cow for 18–24 hours. This is most effective if done to the entire herd before the age of one.

    The cow magnet attracts such objects and prevents them from becoming lodged in the animal’s tissue. While the resultant mass of iron remains in the cow’s rumen as a pseudobezoar (an intentionally introduced bezoar), it does not cause the severe problems of hardware disease. Cow magnets cannot be passed through a cow’s 4th bonivial meta-colon.

    17 votes
  2. [19]
    GenuinelyCrooked
    Link
    That can't be comfortable for the cow, right? Like, just because it's in a less dangerous part of the stomach doesn't mean there isn't a ball of sharp metal in their stomach. It seems like running...

    That can't be comfortable for the cow, right? Like, just because it's in a less dangerous part of the stomach doesn't mean there isn't a ball of sharp metal in their stomach. It seems like running a magnet over the pasture every so often would be a much kinder solution. You wouldn't even need a person to do it, just a big pasture-roomba with a magnet on the bottom instead of a vacuum could go around once a day (or however often stuff that can drop metal screws and wires traverses the pasture) and pick up everything before the cows can get to it.

    10 votes
    1. [5]
      PetitPrince
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      If there's no visible discomfort from the cow as it is the case with what is described as hardware disease then I think it's OK. After all, it's stuck in one of the stomach, not moving and...

      Like, just because it's in a less dangerous part of the stomach doesn't mean there isn't a ball of sharp metal in their stomach.

      If there's no visible discomfort from the cow as it is the case with what is described as hardware disease then I think it's OK. After all, it's stuck in one of the stomach, not moving and probably will be dulled over time.

      just a big pasture-roomba with a magnet on the bottom

      I suspect navigation on irregular terrain is harder than you think it is.

      13 votes
      1. [4]
        GenuinelyCrooked
        Link Parent
        There are lawn roombas that cut grass on hillsides all around my town. It seems to me that it would be even easier if it didn't actually need to make contact with any of the grass.

        I suspect navigation on irregular terrain is harder than you think it is.

        There are lawn roombas that cut grass on hillsides all around my town. It seems to me that it would be even easier if it didn't actually need to make contact with any of the grass.

        2 votes
        1. [3]
          boxer_dogs_dance
          Link Parent
          I think you aren't imagining conditions in the arid West where cows range over vast distances

          I think you aren't imagining conditions in the arid West where cows range over vast distances

          9 votes
          1. [2]
            GenuinelyCrooked
            Link Parent
            There's a whole lot that I might not be properly imagining, but if stuff that drops wires and screws can handle the distance, why can't a magnet-roomba?

            There's a whole lot that I might not be properly imagining, but if stuff that drops wires and screws can handle the distance, why can't a magnet-roomba?

            4 votes
            1. boxer_dogs_dance
              Link Parent
              This article might help. Edit but also the profit margins for ranches doesn't support it. https://discover.texasrealfood.com/stocking-rate-by-state/texas The metal has likely been present for decades.

              This article might help.

              Edit but also the profit margins for ranches doesn't support it.

              https://discover.texasrealfood.com/stocking-rate-by-state/texas

              The metal has likely been present for decades.

              12 votes
    2. jujubunicorn
      Link Parent
      They are already forcefully milking, slaughtering, and branding the cows... I feel like their comfort is the least of their worries.

      They are already forcefully milking, slaughtering, and branding the cows... I feel like their comfort is the least of their worries.

      11 votes
    3. [12]
      DanBC
      Link Parent
      I feel this is tricky because magnets are weird. There's the inverse square laws that mean power drops off quite rapidly with distance from the magnet. For this application we'd need a lot of...

      You wouldn't even need a person to do it, just a big pasture-roomba with a magnet on the bottom

      I feel this is tricky because magnets are weird. There's the inverse square laws that mean power drops off quite rapidly with distance from the magnet. For this application we'd need a lot of magnet - magnets that are large and strong, that get mounted to a bar that gets hitched to the back of a vehicle and dragged over the ground, but without touching the ground. The fields are very large.

      I'd be interested to know if the metal is mostly newer stuff dropped when fences are changed, or if it's historic stuff that just got left when farms were being built.

      Farm animal welfare is difficult, so having cows outside but exposed to eating metal is possibly better than cramming them into pens, but it's not great.

      4 votes
      1. boxer_dogs_dance
        Link Parent
        At least in California, cows graze on land that is too steep for vehicles. Not exclusively, but I see them on the hillsides. Flatland is for crops and orchards for the most part.

        At least in California, cows graze on land that is too steep for vehicles. Not exclusively, but I see them on the hillsides. Flatland is for crops and orchards for the most part.

        5 votes
      2. [10]
        GenuinelyCrooked
        Link Parent
        I was also thinking if the magnet-roomba doesn't work, go ahead and attach the magnet to the cow, but on the outside. Maybe a little chin-strap thing with a plastic guard so that when the metal is...

        I was also thinking if the magnet-roomba doesn't work, go ahead and attach the magnet to the cow, but on the outside. Maybe a little chin-strap thing with a plastic guard so that when the metal is pulled to the magnet it doesn't hit them in the face.

        I suppose the most important thing is to determine if having that metal inside them even bothers them. I don't understand how it could possibly not, but I know very little about cow anatomy. I did a quick google, but the answers were from magnet companies and cattle farmers, and frankly I don't necessarily trust that perspective on comfort.

        1 vote
        1. DefinitelyNotAFae
          Link Parent
          Cow stomachs are designed to do some weird stuff with heavier bits of chewed food and I'm definitely not an expert either. I added veterinarian to my searches and did get a number of things from...

          Cow stomachs are designed to do some weird stuff with heavier bits of chewed food and I'm definitely not an expert either. I added veterinarian to my searches and did get a number of things from university sites.

          I also found this story of a cow who had surgery due to being a show cow and more valuable. Which also mentions what is usually done with magnets.

          6 votes
        2. [8]
          DanBC
          Link Parent
          There are some disgusting images of cow research where they have a port cut into the side of them allowing researchers to get access to the "stomach" (cow stomachs are complicated and I can never...

          There are some disgusting images of cow research where they have a port cut into the side of them allowing researchers to get access to the "stomach" (cow stomachs are complicated and I can never remember which bit is called what).

          I tend to feel uncomfortable when I look at industrial animal production because I forget the vast scale of it, and what they do to make it affordable. I'm buying less meat, and trying to buy higher welfare, but I haven't looked at what that higher welfare actually means so there's a good chance I'm just believing labels that are mostly meaningless.

          I live in the UK and we used to have good standards, but I don't know if those are dropping or not.

          3 votes
          1. [7]
            GenuinelyCrooked
            Link Parent
            Even being willing to look into that stuff, I'm having a really hard time finding anyone discussing whether or not the cows show any signs of discomfort if they've been fed those magnets. Lots of...

            Even being willing to look into that stuff, I'm having a really hard time finding anyone discussing whether or not the cows show any signs of discomfort if they've been fed those magnets. Lots of sources that it's an effective preventative for hardware disease, but no one talking about the actual experience of the cows.

            I don't eat meat, but I do eat cheese, so I'm still on the hook for the industrial treatment of cows. I get most of our dairy from a farm that I can drive down to and look at the cows, and seem pretty happy, but I can't get that close to them, and it's not like they could tell me if they were miserable. I've been trying to move towards vegan alternatives when I have the option, this is all the more motivation.

            4 votes
            1. [6]
              boxer_dogs_dance
              Link Parent
              When I think of hardware disease, I think of beef cattle in regions where they range effectively wild for long periods of time. Dairy cattle are more closely supervised. I wonder how much hardware...

              When I think of hardware disease, I think of beef cattle in regions where they range effectively wild for long periods of time.

              Dairy cattle are more closely supervised. I wonder how much hardware disease they see in dairy cows.

              5 votes
              1. [5]
                GenuinelyCrooked
                Link Parent
                The wikipedia page says that dairy cows are actually more likely to get it, but the claim is unsourced. The dairy farm near me is actually what I was imagining when I came up with my magnet-roomba...

                The wikipedia page says that dairy cows are actually more likely to get it, but the claim is unsourced.

                The dairy farm near me is actually what I was imagining when I came up with my magnet-roomba idea. I see mower-roombas cutting the grass on identical hills every time I go there in the summer. Maybe I'll see if I can stop by sometime when the farmers are around and ask them about it. I may need to bring a Swedish friend for translation.

                3 votes
                1. [4]
                  boxer_dogs_dance
                  Link Parent
                  How steep are these hills mowed by the Roomba? Would a jeep or land Rover tip over if they tried to drive the hill?

                  How steep are these hills mowed by the Roomba? Would a jeep or land Rover tip over if they tried to drive the hill?

                  2 votes
                  1. [3]
                    GenuinelyCrooked
                    Link Parent
                    Not at all. I usually take the bus to this farm and it has no trouble getting up there.

                    Not at all. I usually take the bus to this farm and it has no trouble getting up there.

                    1 vote
                    1. [2]
                      boxer_dogs_dance
                      Link Parent
                      Hill can be such an ambiguous word depending on where you are and what is typical for the landscape.

                      Hill can be such an ambiguous word depending on where you are and what is typical for the landscape.

                      4 votes
                      1. GenuinelyCrooked
                        Link Parent
                        I'm from South Florida, so if it's higher or steeper than a 10 minute walk, it's not a hill it's a mountain. :)

                        I'm from South Florida, so if it's higher or steeper than a 10 minute walk, it's not a hill it's a mountain. :)

                        1 vote
  3. imperialismus
    Link
    So let me get this straight: the problem is there's too many sharp metal objects in cow pastures, and the solution is to put magnets in cows so the sharp metal objects they ingest are less likely...

    So let me get this straight: the problem is there's too many sharp metal objects in cow pastures, and the solution is to put magnets in cows so the sharp metal objects they ingest are less likely to injure them? That's like having the problem of trains derailing on the regular so you solve it by putting airbags in train cars.

    8 votes
  4. [2]
    Akir
    Link
    I am very confused by the particular mixture of feelings that reading this has caused me. I'm happy because this is funny, but I also feel kind of sorry for cows that will need this, and I also...

    I am very confused by the particular mixture of feelings that reading this has caused me. I'm happy because this is funny, but I also feel kind of sorry for cows that will need this, and I also feel some astonishment that this is a thing at all.

    Is this a common thing?

    7 votes
    1. PetitPrince
      Link Parent
      In one of the second order source cited by Wikipedia , the introduction says: (emphasis mine) Note that 1 is from 1954, while 2 and 3 are from 1976 and 1979, and and 4 and 5 are from 2000 and...

      Is this a common thing?

      In one of the second order source cited by Wikipedia , the introduction says:

      One of the first large studies found that the incidence of TRP was as high as 80% [1], but more recent reports have shown that it is now approximately 2–12% [2,3,4,5].

      (emphasis mine)

      Note that 1 is from 1954, while 2 and 3 are from 1976 and 1979, and and 4 and 5 are from 2000 and 2005. Also 3 and 4 are in German.

      6 votes
  5. [9]
    caliper
    Link
    Naming it “Hardware Disease” makes me sick. Instead of resolving the actual problem - nails, wire and other metal objects ending up in cattle - we name it a “Hardware Disease” and start putting...

    Naming it “Hardware Disease” makes me sick. Instead of resolving the actual problem - nails, wire and other metal objects ending up in cattle - we name it a “Hardware Disease” and start putting magnets in cows. This is so backwards, how terrible. How can people work at companies like this, let alone come up with unethical solutions like this?

    8 votes
    1. [5]
      gowestyoungman
      Link Parent
      I would think the unethical thing would be not finding a solution that makes life comfortable for the cow. I dont know if you've seen a cow in distress but its hard to watch, laying on the ground...

      I would think the unethical thing would be not finding a solution that makes life comfortable for the cow. I dont know if you've seen a cow in distress but its hard to watch, laying on the ground and sometimes moaning in pain, with bloated bellies while a vet (if they get there in time) is trying to diagnose a problem. Not exactly easy and without this magnet the cow would likely need surgical intervention, which, depending on the cow, may not happen, it may just be slaughtered instead as the surgery is too difficult and/or expensive to be worth it. So indeed putting a magnet in there to deal with anything they accidentally eat is a much more humane way to help them live a healthy life.

      13 votes
      1. [4]
        caliper
        Link Parent
        I totally agree, but I don’t think treating the symptom of the problem is the right approach. Metal shouldn’t be entering the cow in the first place.

        I would think the unethical thing would be not finding a solution that makes life comfortable for the cow

        I totally agree, but I don’t think treating the symptom of the problem is the right approach. Metal shouldn’t be entering the cow in the first place.

        3 votes
        1. teaearlgraycold
          Link Parent
          There is metal around things humans build. Some cows are living in 60 year old barns. Even the most well built barn will shed a few nails after that much time. It’s not like they’re just...

          There is metal around things humans build. Some cows are living in 60 year old barns. Even the most well built barn will shed a few nails after that much time. It’s not like they’re just sprinkling metal around the cows. Things break off, fall out, and get lost.

          I do think there’s an ethical discussion to be had over raising animals for slaughter. But if you accept that then this is a minor downstream side effect.

          10 votes
        2. boxer_dogs_dance
          Link Parent
          If these cows are ranging over hundreds of miles of range land there is no way to police that

          If these cows are ranging over hundreds of miles of range land there is no way to police that

          6 votes
        3. gowestyoungman
          Link Parent
          Im not sure you're aware of how big a cow pasture can be. There's no feasible way to sweep acres of land and find every little piece of metal that a cow could ingest. Finding a nail would...

          Im not sure you're aware of how big a cow pasture can be. There's no feasible way to sweep acres of land and find every little piece of metal that a cow could ingest. Finding a nail would literally be finding a needle in a haystack: https://thecowdocs.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/cows-in-se-pasture.jpg?w=600

          2 votes
    2. [3]
      skybrian
      Link Parent
      I don’t know what you mean. From a farmer’s point of view, it appears to be a disease - the cow isn’t doing well and it’s not so easy to diagnose. It’s not clear that the magnets are unethical,...

      I don’t know what you mean. From a farmer’s point of view, it appears to be a disease - the cow isn’t doing well and it’s not so easy to diagnose. It’s not clear that the magnets are unethical, either. Do the cows suffer? What do you know about cows?

      12 votes
      1. [2]
        caliper
        Link Parent
        That’s some mental gymnastics. When hit by a car driving over a sidewalk, I’ve never heard anyone say they’re suffering from a “vehicle disease”. The car shouldn’t be on the sidewalk, just like...

        That’s some mental gymnastics. When hit by a car driving over a sidewalk, I’ve never heard anyone say they’re suffering from a “vehicle disease”. The car shouldn’t be on the sidewalk, just like metal object shouldn’t be in feed or on the pasture.

        5 votes
        1. skybrian
          Link Parent
          If a cow got hit by a car, they wouldn’t call it a disease either.

          If a cow got hit by a car, they wouldn’t call it a disease either.

          4 votes