51
votes
US judges say Donald Trump administration must continue food aid during shutdown
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- Title
- US judge blocks Trump administration from halting Snap benefits
- Published
- Oct 31 2025
- Word count
- 218 words
Republicans: Forcing you to go hungry until the Democrats let them take away your healthcare.
Catch me up here, whats in the proposed budget that we’re arguing over?
My very simplified understanding is that democrats are holding out for a budget with ACA subsidies to prevent healthcare premiums from skyrocketing for those under ACA. Republicans are (objectively falsely, worth noting) claiming that these subsidies are for illegal aliens. This is objectively false as illegal aliens are not eligible for ACA, and therefore cannot benefit from it. There seems to be some confusing of ACA with EMTALA, which requires that patients be seen and screened for life threatening emergencies, no matter their status (immigration, insurance, criminal, whatever). But there is nothing about EMTALA in the legislation. EMTALA (1986) far outdates ACA (2010), and they are two distinctly different things. But the rhetoric I've seen has been people confusing EMTALA with ACA, and using that to claim that democrats are trying to "hold out for free government healthcare for illegals".
I would also point out these are not new subsidies, it is preventing yanking the existing ones away.
Politicians can start complaing about budget shortfalls after we've got taxes on the top 10% back up over the 70% threshold. And that we cut all funding to the CheetoSS.
I thought I saw that some of the funding given to hospitals treating people without insurance (EMTALA) was also cut in the stupid big bill and that it was part of the demands to be addressed, especially in rural hospitals. That may have been changed? But either way still not about immigrants, it's about funding hospitals.
Trans healthcare is also at risk.
EMTALA isn't really a catch all for no insurance though. It's not like a "Payment Plan" where hospitals can file a visit to the government requesting reimbursement. It's more of a "rule" or "requirement. All hospitals that receive medicare funding (about 98%) are required to participate EMTALA. EMTALA essentially means "We can't turn you way for any reason". By "turn away", it more specifically means anyone is entitled to:
So broadly speaking, if someone is an illegal alien, a criminal, a junkie, being overtly racist to staff, has no insurance, whatever, doesn't matter -- EMTALA requires that they are examined by a physician and that they are not discharged without addressing any unstable conditions.
Yeah so I'm aware of that.
I was saying I was under the understanding that some of the federal funding sent to hospitals to cover that cost was being cut. But I'm digging deeper and it seems more like the broader Medicaid cuts are the concern. I was not aware EMTALA was an unfunded mandate.
I'm not sure what I said to give you the impression I didn't know what EMTALA itself was other than not phrasing it as "under EMTALA"? Or maybe specifying ERs? Trying to avoid the confusion in the future.
There is a potential threat to EMTALA with the federal fuckery around abortion though it seems.
Ah, my mistake. The way you parenthesis-d
(EMTALA)after referring to uninsured patients came across to me as a concept that EMTALA provided some kind of reimbursement for uninsured patients.And yes, EMTALA has become a mess, in reference to states where abortion is illegal, but women suffering obstetrical emergencies are showing up requiring care that may necessitate termination of a pregnancy. My best friend's wife is an OB/GYN and practicing in one of those states, and it's been an absolute mess, trying to walk to line of providing effective healthcare, and not being litigated.
Gotcha no I did think there was some funding there at risk but it's just cutting Medicaid in general that's going to cause rural (in particular) hospitals to close.
I appreciate those who stay in states that are making their lives hell and also I don't blame those who leave. But things just suck all around.
A friend and I were speculating about whether California might fulfill SNAP benefits soon. I have to imagine they either have the money or would accept the debt. If so they may be delaying as part of a game of chicken to make things look more dire in congress for as long as possible.
It seems to be the ultimate counter to this attack on our citizens is for the wealthier, blue-er, states to continue SNAP benefits while poorer, Trump-ier, states do not. In the marketplace of politics it's important for there to be clear benefits to voting for Democrats and living in their states.
One piece of good news is that San Francisco is continuing benefits through a separate program. They say they've sent out new cards to every SNAP recipient in the city.
Edit: I have now heard California is funding 2 weeks of SNAP, although the new funding is delayed. There are a few other states, red and blue, providing some kind of bridge funding.
New York is frankly too broke and in debt to handle the benefits. The budget hasn't recovered from covid, and as usual it's because of being forced to subsidize red state freeloading from our federal taxes all of the time. In lieu of food stamps, they are recommending everyone connect with local food banks and other programs.
This has already made several people I know in real life pretty angry - and not 'rant and shake fist' angry, more like 'gun toting shoplifting spree' furious. Older people on fixed incomes are being hit the hardest and that tends to piss off their children. Out here in the countryside it's not such an issue - this is where most of the food is grown after all. People living in the city, however, are in much worse situations.
Rice and beans, folks. Rice will keep you alive and it's a plant, healthier and far superior to any pasta. Keeps for literal decades without refrigeration. Beans will keep you hale and are a functional substitute for meat protein. Pick up any cheap gravy or broths or sauces and spices along with some other canned or frozen vegetables and you're set for a wide variety of meals. It's all still dirt cheap. Don't waste food stamps on stupid things like soda or hot pockets - switch to basics, you'll eat better and enjoy it more.
For myself, I've already filled up two full-sized freezers with almost two hundred pounds of venison to top that off. We get nuisance tags around here and a proper butchering and rendering of the meat is still about $50 for the whole animal. No supermarket on earth can touch that price or the meat quality. Sometimes it's more economical to just cut the supermarkets out of your food chain entirely.
The issue is that the food stamps are gone.
And dignity policing is exhausting. WIC, which restricts the food permitted significantly, is much harder to use and leads to tears at the checkout as it is. If people are buying prepared food whether it's because they lack the cooking facilities or the time or the skills that's not an issue that will be solved by telling them to buy beans. Not everyone enjoys eating more when they cook, even when they can.
Nuisance tags are only for landowners here, though they'll be allowed to be given to other hunters next year. Sounds like a very unlikely situation for most SNAP recipients to end up in. But I know food banks that take venison if you're so inclined to influence what poor people eat.
Let people buy a treat, have the same caffeine addiction as most Americans, live without a functioning stove, work late when kids need to heat up their own meals, etc. Especially right now what folks need is help, not lectures.
I think the real issue is that everyone expects the food stamps to come back and never considers the possibility that they won't.
We're on the edge of globalism collapsing - words won't solve this problem. People need to do what is practical for their survival more than they need feelings or illusions about status protected. That bag of coffee will last a lot longer if it goes to the basics, and if one hasn't got the basics covered, then skip the coffee. Tea costs less and still delivers the caffeine. This economy can get far, far worse in a hurry if the wrong things happen.
If it was up to me I'd cancel all other social welfare and turn social security into a healthy UBI, then back it up with a gold/asset backed crypto dollar... but that is not going to happen. The only way it could happen is if robotic manufacturing starts delivering on its potential for post-scarcity production, but we're still several years away from that best case. Be ready for depression-era living until that happens.
I'd love to be wrong here, but I don't see a happy ending for Trump's presidency.
This seems pretty far-fetched. What are signs that "globalism" is collapsing? If anything, international trade has proven remarkably resilient over the last 5 years.
This issue with food stamps is due to a particular dysfunction of how the US government works, and a lack of unity from Republicans, not any global macroeconomic conditions.
Just take a look at global shipping over time if you want to see the collapse. I must have missed the part where Trump's trade and tariff policies are working... or the part where the terminally aging demographics in the majority of world countries lead to a good resolution. Then we can mix in the ongoing wars on every continent and their trade disruptions just for kicks. Even ignoring all of that, the one single method the government has to pay off this much debt is by inflating it away and monetizing it. That means the dollar is going to go for a nice long steady ride on the inflation train.
So yes, I'm rather bearish on the near term worldwide economic situation right now. It's not hopeless but it certainly looks like a bumpy trip for the next two decades, and largely at the expense of those who are living paycheck to paycheck (northwards of 70% of all US citizens right now). We've also got accelerated job losses from automation coming. I guess I brought it up because I see this food stamp mess as just another nail in the coffin coming from a government that is too dysfunctional to handle reality.
Based on shipping indices it’s a relative mixed picture. Air rates up, container ship rates down but recovering.
Exactly? Those are policies that disrupt globalism. But when push has come to shove, other nations have started to play their cards and Trump has been forced to back down, because it is quite painful in practice. Just see the truce on the trade war that the US and China signed a week ago.
There are economic headwinds, but there’s always been economic headwinds. I think believing the worldwide economy is about to collapse and deciding to retreat from participation in said economy is just going to leave you destitute in an economy that did not, in fact, collapse.
I hope you're right. I just wonder how long we can keep tempting fate with idiotic policy before something more permanent breaks.
Globalism is many different things, so I'll take the time to apply the texbook lens of:
In this case, the opposite of globalism is nationalism. Nationalism includes hard anti-immigration stances and hostilities towards existing trade partners. Which seems to be on the rise in many places, not just the US. Trade still exists, but msot countries aren't going to sever their trade relations in 6 months like the US. China's making big moves recently that they have planed for the better part of 2 decades now.
Yes, but the mentality of "the government will figure it out and protect us" is a stance enforced under nationalism. "America First", right? Besides the Argentina bailout, and hostile actions to Venezuala, and bowing down to Rusisia, and....
I think a number of people have considered the possibility that they won't.
But your solution of "buying beans" and hunting is not actually helpful. What will help people survive is taking care of each other, not giving them advice on what to buy with the money they don't have while they still have to keep doing everything else or be homeless too. If the problem is with the system, we don't need to shame folks at the same time. I'm not sure any people in NYC are going to start taking deer on their non-existent land with nuisance tags.
I don't think your economic solutions are viable so it sort of doesn't matter if they work, but spare the world the rice and beans advice as if it's never been uttered before and donate to your local food pantry that will take hunted meat.
It is life saving advice for any humans in this situation and I'll continue repeating it. The best way to offset the food disruption is for people to prepare for themselves and their immediate family - and if possible for their neighbors. If everyone stocks up as best they can they'll have it much easier when things get bumpy. Without that resilience, things get desperate quickly, and desperation turns into violence. Frankly, I think that's what some of our leaders are hoping for pushing this shutdown on so long. I'd like to see us all disappoint them.
Things are already bumpy. This is not "stock up" time, as there are not food stamps to stock up with. You talked about not eating hot pockets because they'd feel better, you can claim this is actually just practical "life saving" advice now but you were bragging about your full freezers and not how much you were donating, or how many families you're feeding. Advice doesn't fill bellies. Nor does the idea that the poorest folks can stockpile.
As I said, people buying convenience food are doing it for reasons not solvable by telling them to buy beans or pretend that the residents of NYC are going to take a deer. Everyone has heard "rice and beans." And the ones who haven't certainly aren't here. So as someone whose family isn't getting SNAP this month your advice is worth absolutely zero.
Take those tags and work with the hunters in your area to fill your community's freezers. That's what my partner's family did with their hunting, fishing, trapping, and cooking. He's disabled now and can't do that anymore. And because he is my family he'll be ok. But community is how we take care of each other.
Neither does Trump's government. I'm almost certain he'll stall this court order as best he can. I've been on EBT before, and I have friends who still rely on it. I know how it works.
I give away more meat than I keep, I haven't got the freezer space for it all even if I wanted to keep it. The deer really are a nuisance. I have no idea what the odds are that the food donated around here will ever make it to a city, though. It's the cities I worry about. They are the most sensitive to the disruptions.
I'm glad to hear it. It wouldn't make sense to ship your food to cities if you're donating in your more rural communities. Cities have more ways for donors to acquire food. (I'm sure the deer are a nuisance the point is they're not free in time, investment or storage space. Plenty of people don't have a freezer, much less space to process a deer or land to hunt them on. )
This is just a stopgap. It's not a solution. We'll need a functional government or even a half ass functional one to recover. Pantries feed one meal for every nine that SNAP provides. You can be pessimistic about whether that happens, I'm just telling you to spare the hot pockets vs rice and beans talk.
I usually top off all family and friends' freezers and leave the rest with the butchers. I could butcher them myself but I hate the smell and the mess isn't pretty... plus the pros are better equipped for it and to sort out anything that's tainted. They'll also make use of the leather. I haven't added tanning skills to my portfolio yet. :P
Advocating orgs like that is a great way to help. Thanks
If we're at the point where rice and beans are unaffordable, then we're going to quickly hit a point not unlike Nepal earlier in the year. Except it won't just be young kids made about social media.
on a logrithmnic scale of 1-10 of "I am actively taking food drive food" to "I am financially secure and can spend a signfigant amount on donations with no impact to my QoL", I'm probably around a 3 right now. Any surplus I have right now goes to paying off debts, sadly. Not even savings.
What's a "nuisance tag"? Is that another word for roadkill?
In a world where you must buy everything from a handful of megacorps, and voting with your dollars is not viable, shoplifting is one of the only protest methods remaining.
"Well then, demonstrate before the palaces of the rich; demand work. If they do not give you work, demand bread. If they deny you both, take bread."
From the article:
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But the practical implications seem unclear:
Will SNAP benefits be paid in November? (CNN)
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How nice of them to formally admit that cutting off SNAP was intentional and not an unintended consequence of something else. That's something that needs to be on billboards everywhere.