25
votes
Any other tenure-track faculty on Tildes?
I've got a "holy grail" TT faculty position at an R1 university, but I'm seriously considering leaving academia. It's a fit issue, and I've had a major mental health development that has definitely changed the equation for me. I would welcome non-academic or non-TT or non-faculty input as well. It would be an immense life change for me and my family, so I'd like to look at it from all sides, and I think Tildes would be a great place to do that.
Please let me know if you're interested in a discussion or just give freeform advice. I'll update this post with specific questions if this gets any traction.
My thanks!
Allow me to
share my condolencescongratulate you on your new tenure track position at a prestigious R1 university! Many people with the training, ambition, talent, and effort to accomplish this nonetheless fail, myself among them, so what you have achieved is no small accomplishment.As for myself, my dreams of the academy were mortally wounded in my third postdoc and finally fell to ashes my in fourth. After a few years where it appeared that this calamity might take other parts of my life with it as well, things got turned around and I now work on sponsored R&D efforts. I found not be more grateful for calamity turned out to be providence. My colleague and I will regularly discuss our good fortune that we are not in academia, and thus, not in competition with smarter, harder working, more committed people like yourself. It's a little like being a research professor, but without all those pesky students around.
I write reports and proposals, but I don't have to publish any more. None of my work is peer reviewed, so science is whatever I say it is. I have not been chained behind a desk or bench in a very long time. There is no Sword of Damocles hanging over my head in the form of tenure review. My family is intact.
I have a friend who, having finally obtained tenure, is considering leaving for work in the private sector (while retaining an appointment, of course). I'm happy for him and glad I never had to compete with him. Moving out of academia wasn't painless for me, but totally worthwhile.
What field would this be in? I'd imagine there are also cultural differences between various departments and disciplines. I have a background in history (education degree) and while not active in the field (working in IT for well over a decade) I am still active in history communities with people with various positions in the academic world. But before I try to crowd source their input or point them here I wanted to check if it would be relevant.
What are your own reservations in this btw? You clearly do have some.
As someone who decided not to continue in academia because of the slim pickings when it comes to such positions, congratulations! I'm not sure I have much in the way of advice but I do want to remind you to celebrate this achievement even as you're considering the complicated practicalities. You've accomplished a lot by getting here!
I'm tenured at a community college, so it's a bit different than an R1. It's pure teaching with no research (exactly how I want it). Every time I flirt with the idea of leaving or moving to an administrative position, these facts keep me exactly where I am:
Hopefully my perspective helps in your decision-making, one way or another, and you find somewhere that satisfies you. As hard-fought as your R1 position must have been, it can't be worth it if it makes you miserable!
That’s great - I came very close to going down the CC route. Had one or two events played out differently. Luckily my job now still includes enough teaching to satisfy that part of me.
Hey, I work in student affairs and only teach a class for Resident Assistants, but I just want to let you know I see you!
I'm happy to be an ear, it sounds like you have a lot going on, but I'm not sure I'd have answers for you beyond taking care of yourself as a person before prioritizing you as an employee, but I understand the bigger picture there too about tenure and security and all of that. If I can be helpful let me know
If I might take issue with one word in this sentence: I feel like academia works best if you do not view yourself as an employee at all. As much as some university systems, especially in Europe, try to push the idea of operating a university like a business, and treating the university-academic relationship as a company-employee one, that, in my view, is both not traditional and is a neoliberal capitalist invasion of academia worth fighting against.
From a scholarly perspective, the work an academic does is and should be their own, not their university's. The work is much more closely tied to them, and when they move, moves with them. Unlike most company-employee relationships, an academic's work might be completely unchanged by moving to a different university, or even not being in a paid position at all. Choices of research interests and perspectives, and of teaching perspective and style, are often decided mostly by the individual academic. Working styles and arrangements are often unique to individual academics, and the success and failure of individuals vs the university often seem very separate.
I get your point. However, I am definitely specifically referring to that Employer/Employee relationship here and not their relationship to being a scholar or academic in general. That's not something I can speak to as much and I'd be less helpful with interrogating that.
So while I take your point about all of that, I was intentional in what I was speaking to!
I have a toe in academia; my postdoc funding got cut recently and sent me off into the beyond, but I have always had an uneasy relationship with academia. Getting a TT position at an R1 University is an incredible feat, so congrats! More importantly, I would ask you what about the fit is not working for you. Is it this specific institution? Is it the location? Is it these students? Or do you think it might be academia in general?
I think the horrors of the lead up to tenure are well-documented, and the general idea is that you work your ass off for a few years, achieve tenure, and then have the ability to relax and settle in. The nice thing about achieving tenure is that it gives you leverage to "shop around" - you can leverage your tenured position and move to another location or institution that might be a better fit. So if it's something specific to this institution, there may be a way forward and out, if you can power through to tenure review.
On the other hand, if you just really don't think academia is for you...what are the considerations keeping you here? While uprooting a family can be hard, and I imagine "dropping out" from a TT position can feel galling, so much of my experiences in academia revolved around stress, self-loathing, and general misery. That was true in grad school, that was true in my postdoc, and it was/is true to some extent on the job market. There is so much nastiness and judgment that is completely unnecessary. And there are a lot of jobs out there that can pay well, have almost zero prestige, and probably make you feel much happier in the long run. So I would encourage you to do a self-inventory - how do you feel about your academic experiences thus far? Are you in good working order? If not, for how long? Would this be ameliorated by getting tenure? Or is this a long-running unhealthiness?
You are important, and you are more than just your CV. Being healthy and emotionally available to your family is an important thing, and I encourage you to think about who you want to be for the people on your life. If you are having major mental health struggles, it does sound like this is not a great fit, but before you make a decision, check and see if there are any resources at your institution that might offer support specifically for TT or junior faculty - I imagine this happens pretty regularly and they may have resources to help, or to help you make a decision.
Final thoughts: at my grad school, there was a TT couple who were brilliant but miserable. They were both incredibly capable, and one of them in particular was consulted constantly for her expertise and was involved in almost every graduate project in our department. Neither of them got tenure, which was kind of shocking. Last I heard, they moved to her home country and he started working in landscaping, where he spends time outside mowing lawns and working with his hands. He is apparently having the best time, and does not miss academia one iota. You don't have to stay, despite all the work you've done to get here, and it's possible that an entire change of employment scenery may be what you need. Talk to your family and see what they think, too - my spouse has told me that academia makes me stressed, stressful, and hard to be around, and I do value his opinion and well-being, too.
I ended up leaving the US and am much happier with the culture here.
After I finished my PhD I was planning on trying to go toward teaching focused positions or else private / government sector jobs.
Then I happened to get a remote post doc with the main aim of doing the aspect of my research I still enjoyed, then that got extended a year, and then I happened to see a posting for a job outside the US that was almost custom made for my background. It meant going back to the sub field I didn’t want to be in, but I decided to stick it out for a couple years for the broader life experience. I loved living there, but the research was way too cutthroat and intense for me.
After that, I almost left academia again, except another postdoc eerily fit for my background opened up in a different country we were targeting. It’s a small institution not in a big city and the research is once again the kind of thing I really enjoy. Last year I finally got promoted and am no longer a postdoc. TT isn’t really a thing here, but the positions are open ended and everyone is really inclusive with grant writing an collaboration, so it’s about as good as it gets by my standards.
So now I expect to be in academia for the rest of my career, but it came about more out of coincidence rather than a drive, and maybe because of that lack of drive, I was more open to hopping around based on opportunities.
The mental health issues were persistent until my current job. I’m not cut out for an R1 type institution. I did my PhD at one and ended up starting a weekly support group among the grad students because it was so rough on me.
My wife is a tenured professor at a Canadian University that is an R1 equivalent - McMaster University, a Medical / Doctoral institution. I am a programmer / manager of programmers. So I may be able to offer some kind of insights into things? I'm happy to listen-read to anything you want to share.
Pm'd