Pffffft! XD Don't have one. I don't know if I should be laughing or impressed that you seem inspired to think of one by my post. I guess thank you and keep on...enjoying yourself?
Pffffft! XD
Don't have one. I don't know if I should be laughing or impressed that you seem inspired to think of one by my post. I guess thank you and keep on...enjoying yourself?
I'm sorry but I disagree. Practice is good. But not "practice and practice". Practicing something you are already good at aka. mastered or practicing something that you can do easily with your...
I'm sorry but I disagree. Practice is good. But not "practice and practice".
Practicing something you are already good at aka. mastered or practicing something that you can do easily with your muscle memory because of all your previous practices will do close to no improvement at all. (Note I said 'close to no improvement' but not 'no improvement') You will only be wasting your valuable time that you could use to add new skills/techniques that further enhance that craft. Also the progress to improve in the new one relative to time is far greater than using the time to improve on the task you have already mastered. The more skills you have at that particular craft makes the time you spend doing it more expensive.
What you should be doing instead is (1) practice till you see that you can do it without any effort then (2) switch to learning something new [b]of the same craft[/b] (maybe a new technique or another form) till you've practiced this enough times to see it takes no effort to do this as well. (3) Take some time to see what all you have learned and try to combine them to create something new creatively. You will notice that this increases your grasp on both the things that you have learned and will most likely show you some of the things that if you learned would help you make something much greater/better. Learn that new thing after you are done practicing. And repeat. Learn the new things combine with previously mastered stuff. This is how you master something. The art to mastering. You're welcome.
Why are you sorry to disagree? O.o A difference of opinion can lead to delightful conversation! While I can see your point, I've never counted any of the things I've studied to be Mastered. For...
Why are you sorry to disagree? O.o
A difference of opinion can lead to delightful conversation!
While I can see your point, I've never counted any of the things I've studied to be Mastered. For example, pencil sketching. I've been pencil sketching literally as long as I remember. Am I a master? Eeeeeeh. I'm sure that I look masterish to people starting out, but I don't feel like I've learned EVERYTHING I need to know about sketching.
I hope to still be sketching and lovin' it 50 years from now. At what point do I declare "Mastery?" I don't want to say, okay, I've mastered sketching and now it's just something to combo up. I can combo sketching with anything else creatively, at any time, regardless of level of "mastery." Nor does gaining proficiency in sketching mean that I've "mastered" the craft of art in it's entirety.
Here's a thought I've had for a while: Let others decide for themselves if they want to call you a master. And then don't worry about it. Many of the people I've seen declare self mastery seem to be declaring that they don't think there's anything left to learn. They're good at all of it, and don't need to practice any more. Forgive me, but Don't Want. Not even in the slightest. Guess I'll never achieve mastery!
This is how you master something. The art to mastering. You're welcome.
I humbly am grateful for the enlightenment. I'm afraid that I'm unable to follow it, but I respect your mastery.
Ahh I see your point about letting others decide if you've mastered something but does it apply in the field of art? I read about many artists that got famous centuries after they have passed away...
Ahh I see your point about letting others decide if you've mastered something but does it apply in the field of art? I read about many artists that got famous centuries after they have passed away and that trends decide what gets famous in art. And that a blank white canvas got sold for millions. sigh. Anyways don't beat yourself you might already be a master but are not on trend is what I'm saying :P
Let me give an insight of the other kind of people you mentioned. Cause I happen to be one. :) also I know many artists friends who think the same let me explain...
"At what point do I declare "Mastery?""
Answer) When you can do everything that YOU want to do without any effort. But as we get older and experience many things in life the bar gets set really high for the number of things we need to learn. (So we never stop learning) This is one of the reasons why people find it hard to gain new skills as they get older. They know how much there is to learn and the limited life that they have so they give up easy. (But mainly because the brain is not as young as it used to be.) So we know that we have many things to learn and we sacrifice over practicing for it. Since in real life we have limited time and we need to get realistic. As time goes on there are more techniques invented and so it takes longer for an artist to become a master now than for an artist centuries back.
But as an artist (if you follow this mentality) I feel you should understand why artists go to museums and art exhibitions. To get inspired and to discover that there is more to learn. You entered a master but you will leave as a student. Note down the things you see you don't know how to do. Research on the internet. Master the new things - cause until then you have not mastered the craft. Loop this steps till you die.
Learn, Master, See there is more to learn, Learn, Master...pretty obvious.
If you let others decide that's a nice way too as chef or programmer etc but not for art IMO. Be you be creative. Keep learning and don't waste time over practicing.
The OP of this thread wasn't about mastering your craft though. It was about getting better at it. If you're so close to becoming a master in your craft that just practice isn't enough anymore,...
The OP of this thread wasn't about mastering your craft though. It was about getting better at it. If you're so close to becoming a master in your craft that just practice isn't enough anymore, good for you. I can't think of any field where that is true for me, but I'm not going to knock you for your skill.
The post is about getting better yes but my comment was in reply to meristele. Also I feel like I have to repeat for you cause maybe you misunderstood. I'm not saying practice is bad. It's good....
The post is about getting better yes but my comment was in reply to meristele. Also I feel like I have to repeat for you cause maybe you misunderstood. I'm not saying practice is bad. It's good. But over practicing is bad. If you keep practicing what you have gotten better already then when will you learn new stuff with your limited time? I use the word 'master' but really you are just getting better. If I really meant master I would instead say to not learn any new thing but instead repeat the same action infinity times. Then you become a true master. But see I tell him to learn new stuff after master. Cause master to me is the peak reached after all the practice - so is just getting better. :)
I can't speak for @meristele, but I took "play with it" to mean the same idea as your number 3. And learning new things in the craft (your number 2) sounds a lot like "watch other people do it" to...
I can't speak for @meristele, but I took "play with it" to mean the same idea as your number 3.
And learning new things in the craft (your number 2) sounds a lot like "watch other people do it" to me. I know that video tutorials are how I get started with learning new embroidery stitches.
I'm a programmer (at work and on the side for fun). I ask a LOT of questions. I'm constantly asking questions about why people do things the way they do them or when I have some code to submit, I...
I'm a programmer (at work and on the side for fun). I ask a LOT of questions. I'm constantly asking questions about why people do things the way they do them or when I have some code to submit, I make sure to get lots of feedback on it. I know this doesn't really work for most crafts but it does for some in some way or another.
I can't imagine for which craft it wouldn't work beside witchcraft. Sorry. But seriously, in every craft asking question (and watching what others do) is the best way to learn!
I can't imagine for which craft it wouldn't work beside witchcraft.
Sorry.
But seriously, in every craft asking question (and watching what others do) is the best way to learn!
While the practice is important there are many different kinds of practice. Recent studies show that the one so-called deliberate practice can help you a lot more than just ordinary repetition.
While the practice is important there are many different kinds of practice. Recent studies show that the one so-called deliberate practice can help you a lot more than just ordinary repetition.
In the interest of encouraging rigour in referencing studies and results, could you cite a few of the studies you are referring to? I generally find actual research, when it exists, to be quite...
In the interest of encouraging rigour in referencing studies and results, could you cite a few of the studies you are referring to? I generally find actual research, when it exists, to be quite useful in discussions.
Sure, I try my best. The linked page in the original post is full of references to studies and books related to the topic. More specifically: Anders Ericsson: Peek book. He did a lot of studies on...
Sure, I try my best. The linked page in the original post is full of references to studies and books related to the topic. More specifically: Anders Ericsson: Peek book. He did a lot of studies on specific subjects as well.
Make mistakes and asking for help. Been teaching myself basic car maintenance and it's been an entertaining path. Have gotten to meet a lot of cool folks as well.
Make mistakes and asking for help. Been teaching myself basic car maintenance and it's been an entertaining path. Have gotten to meet a lot of cool folks as well.
Practice, participate, just grind out stuff. I write poetry, I run rounds of whatever game I want to climb leaderboards on, I check other people's work and strategies for work. It's important to...
Practice, participate, just grind out stuff. I write poetry, I run rounds of whatever game I want to climb leaderboards on, I check other people's work and strategies for work. It's important to note that you HAVE to practice yourself by making/playing/whatever verb-ing things, because just watching and reading can only get you so far.
While practice is of course the biggest thing, I've learned a lot from taking classes with various teachers who may know more techniques, or more advanced techniques than I do. Having 'mentors'...
While practice is of course the biggest thing, I've learned a lot from taking classes with various teachers who may know more techniques, or more advanced techniques than I do. Having 'mentors' and people with a bit more experience to talk to can really help.
One thing I do to start learning a particular skill is try to imitate some other person's work. For example, in writing music, if I like a particular song, I might try to compose a similar song in...
One thing I do to start learning a particular skill is try to imitate some other person's work. For example, in writing music, if I like a particular song, I might try to compose a similar song in the same genre. Going back and listening to what I got right and what I didn't really pinpoints the things I need to work on. Same thing with programming. I try to write a program that does something cool that another program does. Then I compare my result to the original and see what's different. But the important thing is to try. Sometimes the results are awful, but that tells me something. It points out where I need to learn more, which can be really useful. Sometimes you don't know what you don't know until you try it and can't do it right.
Simply doing my craft. I think Aurelio Voltaire put it best in his "Future Rockstar's Handbook" series when he said (paraphrasing): "You don't need to wait for some sort of higher authority to...
Simply doing my craft. I think Aurelio Voltaire put it best in his "Future Rockstar's Handbook" series when he said (paraphrasing): "You don't need to wait for some sort of higher authority to give you their blessing to be an artist. The only thing that makes you an artist is the fact that you make art! Until you get out there and make crappy drawings, write crappy songs, or otherwise just create crap, you really can't call yourself an artist."
Practice a lot, and don't take yourself very seriously. If you do, you don't have fun, you don't play around as much, you don't discover as much, and you don't learn as much. "Ever tried. Ever...
Practice a lot, and don't take yourself very seriously. If you do, you don't have fun, you don't play around as much, you don't discover as much, and you don't learn as much.
"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better."
— Samuel Beckett
I design board games, so I get better by playtesting. Weekly playtesting nights where designers bring their games and they’re played and feedback is given. Then iterate and improve your game over...
I design board games, so I get better by playtesting. Weekly playtesting nights where designers bring their games and they’re played and feedback is given. Then iterate and improve your game over the following week to have it ready for playtesting night again.
It’s also really important to just play lots of existing already-published games. Explore trends, themes, ideas, new mechanics. Something you try might inspire a new way of looking at your current project.
I think a general sense of dissatisfaction with my abilities helps with this. I do the thing, and then I feel I probably could have done it better. So next time, I do it a little better. I suppose...
I think a general sense of dissatisfaction with my abilities helps with this. I do the thing, and then I feel I probably could have done it better. So next time, I do it a little better. I suppose it's just practice and learning from your mistakes, but working to an elevated standard should push you to improve!
During free periods of my life, I practice Origami like it's my job. Even when I do get tired, a 10 minute break makes me want to get back at it. Over a period of time, I have definitely noticed...
During free periods of my life, I practice Origami like it's my job. Even when I do get tired, a 10 minute break makes me want to get back at it. Over a period of time, I have definitely noticed gradual improvements in my neatness and complexity of Origami models.
Well, I'm an aquarium educator so my biggest concern is making sure I am: 1: Familiar with the programming I'm running 2: Familiar with the animals I will be using for the programs 3: Familiar...
Well, I'm an aquarium educator so my biggest concern is making sure I am:
1: Familiar with the programming I'm running
2: Familiar with the animals I will be using for the programs
3: Familiar with the local school systems and how they function.
I recently moved across the country for my job so that last bit is has been especially time-intensive for me. The other two however are fun. Shockingly enough I love animals so learning about all the new animals I'll be working with is awesome. I also love the challenge of learning and improving upon lesson plans and games that my aquarium runs. First I learn from what others have done, then I add my own personality into the program, and finally I see what I can change and alter to better the program.
It's a fun challenge thinking up lesson plans that are focused enough to prevent meandering but flexible enough to be applied to all age groups.
As has already been said, practice. Additionally, continual learning. Most "talent" you see really boils down to years of prior practice in related skills and the willingness to seek out new...
As has already been said, practice. Additionally, continual learning. Most "talent" you see really boils down to years of prior practice in related skills and the willingness to seek out new information. For instance, I took to programming like a fish to water, but that's only because I'd spent my childhood doing things like playing puzzle games, tinkering with stuff, and doing other things that exercised my problem solving skills, and I'm naturally curious about the subject.
So if there's something you want to get better at, the answer really is as simple as practicing. That's it. No special secret techniques or anything. Just practicing and doing what you can to learn more.
Practice and experimentation. I have a side job as a commission painter, and you learn so much from just experimenting with various techniques and colors. Half the techniques I use on my projects...
Practice and experimentation. I have a side job as a commission painter, and you learn so much from just experimenting with various techniques and colors.
Half the techniques I use on my projects that people pay a lot of money for are literally things I just 'made up' while messing around with how the colors work together and stuff.
I've been practicing guitar for a year now after picking it up and putting it down many times over the years, and my main method of practice is just playing many songs I like. Some songs are...
I've been practicing guitar for a year now after picking it up and putting it down many times over the years, and my main method of practice is just playing many songs I like. Some songs are obviously very difficult for me, so I bookmark them and play easier songs until I develop the dexterity and skill required to play at a more advanced level. My biggest issue is putting everything together after I learn all the parts, and singing while playing is very difficult for me still, but I've learned three full songs so far. Echo by Incubus, Always and Never by Coheed & Cambria, and the bass track to She by Green Day. It's a very rewarding feeling playing all the way through a track on memory alone.
Some work related stuff has certifications you can pursue. Try to go for the most nationally recognized and respected certifications. Sometimes these are sponsored by federal or local government...
Some work related stuff has certifications you can pursue. Try to go for the most nationally recognized and respected certifications. Sometimes these are sponsored by federal or local government or even major companies.
I've found good certifications require a lot of studying and a major test that checks your fundamental and conceptual knowledge of concepts relating to the job.
Practice. And play with it. And practice and practice and watch other people do it and practice. XD It's super fun <3
Are you talking about your dick?
Pffffft! XD
Don't have one. I don't know if I should be laughing or impressed that you seem inspired to think of one by my post. I guess thank you and keep on...enjoying yourself?
I'm sorry but I disagree. Practice is good. But not "practice and practice".
Practicing something you are already good at aka. mastered or practicing something that you can do easily with your muscle memory because of all your previous practices will do close to no improvement at all. (Note I said 'close to no improvement' but not 'no improvement') You will only be wasting your valuable time that you could use to add new skills/techniques that further enhance that craft. Also the progress to improve in the new one relative to time is far greater than using the time to improve on the task you have already mastered. The more skills you have at that particular craft makes the time you spend doing it more expensive.
What you should be doing instead is (1) practice till you see that you can do it without any effort then (2) switch to learning something new [b]of the same craft[/b] (maybe a new technique or another form) till you've practiced this enough times to see it takes no effort to do this as well. (3) Take some time to see what all you have learned and try to combine them to create something new creatively. You will notice that this increases your grasp on both the things that you have learned and will most likely show you some of the things that if you learned would help you make something much greater/better. Learn that new thing after you are done practicing. And repeat. Learn the new things combine with previously mastered stuff. This is how you master something. The art to mastering. You're welcome.
Why are you sorry to disagree? O.o
A difference of opinion can lead to delightful conversation!
While I can see your point, I've never counted any of the things I've studied to be Mastered. For example, pencil sketching. I've been pencil sketching literally as long as I remember. Am I a master? Eeeeeeh. I'm sure that I look masterish to people starting out, but I don't feel like I've learned EVERYTHING I need to know about sketching.
I hope to still be sketching and lovin' it 50 years from now. At what point do I declare "Mastery?" I don't want to say, okay, I've mastered sketching and now it's just something to combo up. I can combo sketching with anything else creatively, at any time, regardless of level of "mastery." Nor does gaining proficiency in sketching mean that I've "mastered" the craft of art in it's entirety.
Here's a thought I've had for a while: Let others decide for themselves if they want to call you a master. And then don't worry about it. Many of the people I've seen declare self mastery seem to be declaring that they don't think there's anything left to learn. They're good at all of it, and don't need to practice any more. Forgive me, but Don't Want. Not even in the slightest. Guess I'll never achieve mastery!
I humbly am grateful for the enlightenment. I'm afraid that I'm unable to follow it, but I respect your mastery.
Ahh I see your point about letting others decide if you've mastered something but does it apply in the field of art? I read about many artists that got famous centuries after they have passed away and that trends decide what gets famous in art. And that a blank white canvas got sold for millions. sigh. Anyways don't beat yourself you might already be a master but are not on trend is what I'm saying :P
Let me give an insight of the other kind of people you mentioned. Cause I happen to be one. :) also I know many artists friends who think the same let me explain...
"At what point do I declare "Mastery?""
Answer) When you can do everything that YOU want to do without any effort. But as we get older and experience many things in life the bar gets set really high for the number of things we need to learn. (So we never stop learning) This is one of the reasons why people find it hard to gain new skills as they get older. They know how much there is to learn and the limited life that they have so they give up easy. (But mainly because the brain is not as young as it used to be.) So we know that we have many things to learn and we sacrifice over practicing for it. Since in real life we have limited time and we need to get realistic. As time goes on there are more techniques invented and so it takes longer for an artist to become a master now than for an artist centuries back.
But as an artist (if you follow this mentality) I feel you should understand why artists go to museums and art exhibitions. To get inspired and to discover that there is more to learn. You entered a master but you will leave as a student. Note down the things you see you don't know how to do. Research on the internet. Master the new things - cause until then you have not mastered the craft. Loop this steps till you die.
Learn, Master, See there is more to learn, Learn, Master...pretty obvious.
If you let others decide that's a nice way too as chef or programmer etc but not for art IMO. Be you be creative. Keep learning and don't waste time over practicing.
The OP of this thread wasn't about mastering your craft though. It was about getting better at it. If you're so close to becoming a master in your craft that just practice isn't enough anymore, good for you. I can't think of any field where that is true for me, but I'm not going to knock you for your skill.
The post is about getting better yes but my comment was in reply to meristele. Also I feel like I have to repeat for you cause maybe you misunderstood. I'm not saying practice is bad. It's good. But over practicing is bad. If you keep practicing what you have gotten better already then when will you learn new stuff with your limited time? I use the word 'master' but really you are just getting better. If I really meant master I would instead say to not learn any new thing but instead repeat the same action infinity times. Then you become a true master. But see I tell him to learn new stuff after master. Cause master to me is the peak reached after all the practice - so is just getting better. :)
I can't speak for @meristele, but I took "play with it" to mean the same idea as your number 3.
And learning new things in the craft (your number 2) sounds a lot like "watch other people do it" to me. I know that video tutorials are how I get started with learning new embroidery stitches.
I'm a programmer (at work and on the side for fun). I ask a LOT of questions. I'm constantly asking questions about why people do things the way they do them or when I have some code to submit, I make sure to get lots of feedback on it. I know this doesn't really work for most crafts but it does for some in some way or another.
I can't imagine for which craft it wouldn't work beside witchcraft.
Sorry.
But seriously, in every craft asking question (and watching what others do) is the best way to learn!
While the practice is important there are many different kinds of practice. Recent studies show that the one so-called deliberate practice can help you a lot more than just ordinary repetition.
In the interest of encouraging rigour in referencing studies and results, could you cite a few of the studies you are referring to? I generally find actual research, when it exists, to be quite useful in discussions.
Sure, I try my best. The linked page in the original post is full of references to studies and books related to the topic. More specifically: Anders Ericsson: Peek book. He did a lot of studies on specific subjects as well.
Thank you - Google Scholar links are great ways of pointing to studies.
Hidden gem right here. I had never heard of deliberate practice. Thank you!
Make mistakes and asking for help. Been teaching myself basic car maintenance and it's been an entertaining path. Have gotten to meet a lot of cool folks as well.
Practice, participate, just grind out stuff. I write poetry, I run rounds of whatever game I want to climb leaderboards on, I check other people's work and strategies for work. It's important to note that you HAVE to practice yourself by making/playing/whatever verb-ing things, because just watching and reading can only get you so far.
While practice is of course the biggest thing, I've learned a lot from taking classes with various teachers who may know more techniques, or more advanced techniques than I do. Having 'mentors' and people with a bit more experience to talk to can really help.
One thing I do to start learning a particular skill is try to imitate some other person's work. For example, in writing music, if I like a particular song, I might try to compose a similar song in the same genre. Going back and listening to what I got right and what I didn't really pinpoints the things I need to work on. Same thing with programming. I try to write a program that does something cool that another program does. Then I compare my result to the original and see what's different. But the important thing is to try. Sometimes the results are awful, but that tells me something. It points out where I need to learn more, which can be really useful. Sometimes you don't know what you don't know until you try it and can't do it right.
To getter better at my job (designer) every few tasks I add an extra constraint.
I find it forces me to look at things from different angles.
I also find I do better work when dealing with constraints, but hadn't considered imposing them myself. What a great idea.
Simply doing my craft. I think Aurelio Voltaire put it best in his "Future Rockstar's Handbook" series when he said (paraphrasing): "You don't need to wait for some sort of higher authority to give you their blessing to be an artist. The only thing that makes you an artist is the fact that you make art! Until you get out there and make crappy drawings, write crappy songs, or otherwise just create crap, you really can't call yourself an artist."
Don't be afraid to fail. Because in order to be good at anything, you need to fail at it and learn from it.
Practice a lot, and don't take yourself very seriously. If you do, you don't have fun, you don't play around as much, you don't discover as much, and you don't learn as much.
"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better."
— Samuel Beckett
Step outside my comfort zone as often as I can.
I design board games, so I get better by playtesting. Weekly playtesting nights where designers bring their games and they’re played and feedback is given. Then iterate and improve your game over the following week to have it ready for playtesting night again.
It’s also really important to just play lots of existing already-published games. Explore trends, themes, ideas, new mechanics. Something you try might inspire a new way of looking at your current project.
I think a general sense of dissatisfaction with my abilities helps with this. I do the thing, and then I feel I probably could have done it better. So next time, I do it a little better. I suppose it's just practice and learning from your mistakes, but working to an elevated standard should push you to improve!
During free periods of my life, I practice Origami like it's my job. Even when I do get tired, a 10 minute break makes me want to get back at it. Over a period of time, I have definitely noticed gradual improvements in my neatness and complexity of Origami models.
Well, I'm an aquarium educator so my biggest concern is making sure I am:
1: Familiar with the programming I'm running
2: Familiar with the animals I will be using for the programs
3: Familiar with the local school systems and how they function.
I recently moved across the country for my job so that last bit is has been especially time-intensive for me. The other two however are fun. Shockingly enough I love animals so learning about all the new animals I'll be working with is awesome. I also love the challenge of learning and improving upon lesson plans and games that my aquarium runs. First I learn from what others have done, then I add my own personality into the program, and finally I see what I can change and alter to better the program.
It's a fun challenge thinking up lesson plans that are focused enough to prevent meandering but flexible enough to be applied to all age groups.
As has already been said, practice. Additionally, continual learning. Most "talent" you see really boils down to years of prior practice in related skills and the willingness to seek out new information. For instance, I took to programming like a fish to water, but that's only because I'd spent my childhood doing things like playing puzzle games, tinkering with stuff, and doing other things that exercised my problem solving skills, and I'm naturally curious about the subject.
So if there's something you want to get better at, the answer really is as simple as practicing. That's it. No special secret techniques or anything. Just practicing and doing what you can to learn more.
I play competitive smash bros; just practice and watch pro players
Practice and experimentation. I have a side job as a commission painter, and you learn so much from just experimenting with various techniques and colors.
Half the techniques I use on my projects that people pay a lot of money for are literally things I just 'made up' while messing around with how the colors work together and stuff.
Try and Fail a LOT until you get to where you want to be.
I've been practicing guitar for a year now after picking it up and putting it down many times over the years, and my main method of practice is just playing many songs I like. Some songs are obviously very difficult for me, so I bookmark them and play easier songs until I develop the dexterity and skill required to play at a more advanced level. My biggest issue is putting everything together after I learn all the parts, and singing while playing is very difficult for me still, but I've learned three full songs so far. Echo by Incubus, Always and Never by Coheed & Cambria, and the bass track to She by Green Day. It's a very rewarding feeling playing all the way through a track on memory alone.
Some work related stuff has certifications you can pursue. Try to go for the most nationally recognized and respected certifications. Sometimes these are sponsored by federal or local government or even major companies.
I've found good certifications require a lot of studying and a major test that checks your fundamental and conceptual knowledge of concepts relating to the job.
Google has some cool certifications
(like their Training Center https://edutrainingcenter.withgoogle.com/certification )
or their App cert ( https://cloud.google.com/certification/gsuite-administrator ).
Apple has some courses ( https://www.learnquest.com/schedule-custom.aspx?s20170128=y )
Also, check your closest university. They often offer continued education classes.