Yeah I pretty much agree. Not to be that guy, but I think a decent way to create something today like that self-teaching environment that Windows 9x had is to set up a Linux box with the right...
Yeah I pretty much agree. Not to be that guy, but I think a decent way to create something today like that self-teaching environment that Windows 9x had is to set up a Linux box with the right desktop environment. A lot of those DE's still function and feel like oldschool Windows, as far as someone who doesn't know how to use a command line is concerned.
Plus it would have the advantage of easing the kid into more serious OS knowledge slowly as they get deeper into it. They could have the "icon and start menu" experience and then, if they got interested in it, figure out command line usage by exposure. The only downside is they would be disappointed by the comparative "kiosk-ness" of computers they used at school or friends' houses.
Oh wait, schools and friends' houses barely ever even have desktop PC's anymore, so never mind - there is no downside after all!
I find it pretty odd how much people care about OS choice when it doesn't matter. Each and every one has a long list of pros and cons. But he customized the experience pretty easily right away but...
I find it pretty odd how much people care about OS choice when it doesn't matter. Each and every one has a long list of pros and cons. But he customized the experience pretty easily right away but still makes a big deal the small issues they ran into.
So, there is basically little you can do with Windows out of the box but buy subscriptions and log into pre-installed social media apps.
Well ya'know, except for everything else any OS is capable of. It's kind of ironic the author seems to want his kid to have more control over the device, but also in a heavily controlled environment. Seems like he'd be better off figuring out how to setup an education edition and fully manage it.
I still don't understand TikTok. I'm 27 for context. I've installed it twice on my phone out of curiosity and gave it an hour or so each time to figure out my preferences. It was comically bad at...
I still don't understand TikTok. I'm 27 for context. I've installed it twice on my phone out of curiosity and gave it an hour or so each time to figure out my preferences. It was comically bad at serving me content I would be interested in. I'm told there's stuff on there I'd like but it was just a bunch of twerking videos?
Sorry friend, the algorithm knows. It might be a tough pill to swallow, but deep down you are a person that likes twerking videos. I don't know if you're like me and never vote, like, share, or...
Sorry friend, the algorithm knows. It might be a tough pill to swallow, but deep down you are a person that likes twerking videos. I don't know if you're like me and never vote, like, share, or save anything, but that can be a huge difference maker. Whenever I use TikTok or IG reels, they always end up defaulting to thirst trap videos until I really start saving, following, and liking things.
Lol, I had the same experience. I was like "why do I get all these "here is my outfit" videos" until I realized they all started in their underwear and I'd linger longer than other videos. Thirst...
Lol, I had the same experience. I was like "why do I get all these "here is my outfit" videos" until I realized they all started in their underwear and I'd linger longer than other videos. Thirst traps and disappointing self reflection was definitely my experience on there.
I saw this article pop up on Hacker News a few days ago and I completely agree with the author's sentiments. I've used MacOS and Linux for quite a while now (over two decades) but still...
I saw this article pop up on Hacker News a few days ago and I completely agree with the author's sentiments.
I've used MacOS and Linux for quite a while now (over two decades) but still occasionally have to use Windows.
With Windows XP through 7, it was totally fine and usable. I just preferred the user interface paradigm of OS X more but didn't mind Windows.
But with Windows 10 and 11, it's just an ad-infested mess. Whenever I have to use Windows now it's like I'm constantly fighting against the OS to get anything done.
If you are forced to use Windows, I highly suggest looking into Windows LTSC. Its not easy to get, but it's basically a stripped down version of Windows for enterprise customers without all the bloatware.
I don't think most people should use LTSC, it can be a nightmare for compatibility with newer software. I don't like seeing it recommended online, because people following that advice rarely...
I don't think most people should use LTSC, it can be a nightmare for compatibility with newer software. I don't like seeing it recommended online, because people following that advice rarely understand the reason for its existence.
De-bloating Windows isn't very hard, and neither is removing the "ads" that are in the Start Menu. The out-of-the-box Windows experience isn't as good as it used to be, but for people who know what they're doing its not much work to customize it to a more reasonable state.
I’ve had zero issues with LTSC and software compatibility. What have you heard/run into? I’m curious…maybe I’ve just been lucky? The problem I’ve had with debloating Windows is that Microsoft has...
I’ve had zero issues with LTSC and software compatibility. What have you heard/run into? I’m curious…maybe I’ve just been lucky?
The problem I’ve had with debloating Windows is that Microsoft has a nasty habit of re-enabling/adding in new obnoxious features with Windows updates. So you’re constantly battling to keep the system from ending up covered in ads/unwanted features.
Video games are the big one off the top of my head. Some games need a version much newer than the current LTSC. It is missing features that make modern fullscreen gaming a lot more tolerable. You...
Video games are the big one off the top of my head. Some games need a version much newer than the current LTSC. It is missing features that make modern fullscreen gaming a lot more tolerable. You also lose out on things like Gamepass.
Because LTSC is not really available to consumers, and only used by enterprise customers with very specific needs, anyone building consumer software for Windows 10 is pretty safe in assuming their users are no more than a year or two out of date.
The problem I’ve had with debloating Windows is that Microsoft has a nasty habit of re-enabling/adding in new obnoxious features with Windows updates. So you’re constantly battling to keep the system from ending up covered in ads/unwanted features.
I haven't had this problem on my Windows box, though I use Pro for Workstations rather than the Home version.
Yeah, one of the downsides is that it’s usually a year or two behind feature-wise. So for newer stuff like Android apps, you might have to wait a 2+ years.
Yeah, one of the downsides is that it’s usually a year or two behind feature-wise. So for newer stuff like Android apps, you might have to wait a 2+ years.
I feel that I have managed to remove all of the Windows 11 bloatware. There's a powershell command that essentially lists all Windows Store apps and then pipes them into the uninstall command....
I feel that I have managed to remove all of the Windows 11 bloatware. There's a powershell command that essentially lists all Windows Store apps and then pipes them into the uninstall command. I've been running that since I started using Windows 8.
Frankly I don't know anyone who has admitted to using software from the Microsoft Store. The only reason why I have ever interacted with it was because I needed to use it to get the Minecraft VR...
Frankly I don't know anyone who has admitted to using software from the Microsoft Store. The only reason why I have ever interacted with it was because I needed to use it to get the Minecraft VR beta and for one piece of software that required a Microsoft-written media codec that was only available that way.
I've installed Ubuntu and Minecraft through it. Honestly I'd install more from it, but I don't remember it exists enough (and my windows computer is only for gaming). I try to get things from the...
I've installed Ubuntu and Minecraft through it. Honestly I'd install more from it, but I don't remember it exists enough (and my windows computer is only for gaming).
I try to get things from the mac app store when possible. Effectively the same as a package manager. It ensures the binaries are unmodified and updates them when there's an update.
I use it all the time. It works and it's easier than finding random executables online. Coming from Linux, it feels natural to use it as I used my package manager.
I use it all the time. It works and it's easier than finding random executables online. Coming from Linux, it feels natural to use it as I used my package manager.
Lots of Windows features, like WSL and Windows Terminal, are distributed through the Windows Store. Know anyone who likes Xbox Game Pass? They use a Windows Store app for it. Lots of winget...
Lots of Windows features, like WSL and Windows Terminal, are distributed through the Windows Store. Know anyone who likes Xbox Game Pass? They use a Windows Store app for it. Lots of winget packages even pull directly from the Windows Store now.
Most of these can be installed by other means, but it doesn't really make a lot of sense to do so. I would think most programmers and tech-savvy individuals would understand the benefits of using a package manager by now.
Get-AppxPackage | Remove-AppxPackage Be warned this will remove things like the Microsoft Store and XBox Game Bar, which will lead to occasional troubles. For example I wanted to update the...
Get-AppxPackage|Remove-AppxPackage
Be warned this will remove things like the Microsoft Store and XBox Game Bar, which will lead to occasional troubles. For example I wanted to update the firmware on my XBox controller. I don't have an XBox so I needed to use a Microsoft Store app to do the update. I was able to download the app in a one-off fashion from a Store webpage (and then painstakingly find and install all Store-originated dependencies for that app). In the end it worked! I also used to get error pop-ups when launching games because Windows would try to find the XBox Game Bar app and would fail.
Oh, one more thing. WSL 2 is meant to be downloaded from the Microsoft Store. If I recall correctly I asked ChatGPT how to install it without using the Store and it successfully walked me through the steps of installing WSL 2 from the command line.
Yes, people shouldn't be removing the store from their installations of Windows. It's about as silly as removing APT from Ubuntu. I see a lot of weird advice in many of these threads and I'm...
Yes, people shouldn't be removing the store from their installations of Windows. It's about as silly as removing APT from Ubuntu.
I see a lot of weird advice in many of these threads and I'm convinced it mostly comes from people with a very '90s idea of what an operating system is. You can de-bloat Windows without removing its package manager, so I can't fathom why people would want to do that unless you don't understand why package managers exist in the first place.
It's not preinstalled. The default Windows 11 start menu simply shows some of the most popular MS Store apps, presumably to make it easier for people to find/install them. But it's only if you...
That kid is 10, and TikTok is one of the things I am actively trying to prevent from getting into his world as long as possible. Why is this pre-installed on a clean Windows installation?
It's not preinstalled. The default Windows 11 start menu simply shows some of the most popular MS Store apps, presumably to make it easier for people to find/install them. But it's only if you click the icons that they will actually be installed. So his major complaint is largely based on a misunderstanding. MS isn't very clear about that though, so his confusion is not entirely his fault.
Bitching about the new start menu is totally understandable though, since they are complete shit. But Start11 (which is also available on Steam) or OpenShell (an updated Classic Shell fork) fixes the majority of the issues with it.
IMO he's right that Windows is probably not the best environment for a 10 year old anymore though, especially vanilla Win 11. PopOS! or ChromeOS are probably a lot better. Although he should prepare himself for some headaches if his kid wants to play any popular games with their friends, like Roblox or Fortnite, since neither officially support Linux. Roblox you can get working through WINE, but Fortnite is still a no-go so they will have to dual-boot Windows to play it. And even Minecraft is a massive PITA to get working on ChromeOS, which I learned the hard way when my nephew wanted to play it on his Chromebook. Although there is thankfully now an early access version of Minecraft for Chromebook that supposedly works.
IIRC you get a download confirmation/UAC prompt when you click them. But it's been a long time since I last fresh installed Win 11 and tried it so I can't say for sure. Edit: NM. My father...
IIRC you get a download confirmation/UAC prompt when you click them. But it's been a long time since I last fresh installed Win 11 and tried it so I can't say for sure.
Edit: NM. My father actually just got a new Surface with Win 11 a few days ago, so I was able to test it. It didn't ask for any confirmation when I clicked the TikTok icon. It did show a very clear download progress indicator afterwards though. And after it's done installing there was a large notification informing that it's been installed. My account is an admin account though, so I don't know if no UAC prompt is normal.
However, even if it is, if you don't want a child to be able to install any apps you don't approve of then you can restrict that in a number of ways in the Parental Controls. You can even set it up so that they require your explicit permission before they can install any apps, requests for which are sent to you via a notification informing you of the app name and details. I had that set up on my nephew's old laptop (a hand-me-down) before he got his new Chromebook.
It occurs to me that almost all of my Linux problems are due to proprietary software which thinks of cross-platform as Windows, Mac, and maaayyyyybe Ubuntu 18. Sure there are Linux nuisances...
It occurs to me that almost all of my Linux problems are due to proprietary software which thinks of cross-platform as Windows, Mac, and maaayyyyybe Ubuntu 18. Sure there are Linux nuisances caused by the ecosystem, but most of those have workarounds. The problems are ones with no viable workaround.
This reply brought to you by me spending the morning fighting with Citrix client software.
Is that really a huge issue anymore now that they have online versions of most of their programs? Or are they still hopelessly lacking in important features? (Given that they made their Office...
Is that really a huge issue anymore now that they have online versions of most of their programs? Or are they still hopelessly lacking in important features?
(Given that they made their Office file format an ECMA and ISO standard and then took over a decade to make their program strictly compatible with it, it wouldn't surprise me to see the web version has compatibility as a low priority)
The DBA in me just had an anurism, and this is the rant that flowed from it "This is the reason ERP systems were invented 40+ years ago!! Stop doing ERP things in Excel, do them in the damn ERP. I...
excel sheet....payroll........broken...
The DBA in me just had an anurism, and this is the rant that flowed from it
"This is the reason ERP systems were invented 40+ years ago!! Stop doing ERP things in Excel, do them in the damn ERP.
I mean this as no personal offense to anyone...but seriously people spreadsheets should be used in roughly the same capacity as a desktop calculator. If it becomes more than that... you need to make sure other bits like version control, backups, and auditing are in place. Turns out for most medium-> large companies, there's a massive database somewhere that does just that.
It’s going to happen eventually with every product that is built in an environment of quarterly reports and maximizing stockholder value. In this thing, there’s no such thing as « good enough »,...
It’s going to happen eventually with every product that is built in an environment of quarterly reports and maximizing stockholder value. In this thing, there’s no such thing as « good enough », you MUST make more revenue quarter over quarter, or else you are failing the shareholders.
The calculus in these companies isn’t « how can we optimize value for the user? » but « how many new revenue tools can we sneak in while keeping users? »
I'd actually recommend installing the Education version of Windows if you're looking for a stripped down yet still compatible version of modern Windows. It doesn't bundle with games, has much (but...
I'd actually recommend installing the Education version of Windows if you're looking for a stripped down yet still compatible version of modern Windows. It doesn't bundle with games, has much (but not all) of the tracking disabled for compliance reasons, and essentially has the feature set of Pro.
You still need to disable things like news, but otherwise it's mostly tolerable. I still prefer mac (I firmly believe my computer should work for me, not the other way around, and mac seems to follow that ideal much closer), but using Win11 Edu is much better than stock Win11 Home.
Yeah I pretty much agree. Not to be that guy, but I think a decent way to create something today like that self-teaching environment that Windows 9x had is to set up a Linux box with the right desktop environment. A lot of those DE's still function and feel like oldschool Windows, as far as someone who doesn't know how to use a command line is concerned.
Plus it would have the advantage of easing the kid into more serious OS knowledge slowly as they get deeper into it. They could have the "icon and start menu" experience and then, if they got interested in it, figure out command line usage by exposure. The only downside is they would be disappointed by the comparative "kiosk-ness" of computers they used at school or friends' houses.
Oh wait, schools and friends' houses barely ever even have desktop PC's anymore, so never mind - there is no downside after all!
plus, with a theme like chicago95 you can recreate that sweet windows 95 look and feel! I keep going back to that on xfce.
I find it pretty odd how much people care about OS choice when it doesn't matter. Each and every one has a long list of pros and cons. But he customized the experience pretty easily right away but still makes a big deal the small issues they ran into.
Well ya'know, except for everything else any OS is capable of. It's kind of ironic the author seems to want his kid to have more control over the device, but also in a heavily controlled environment. Seems like he'd be better off figuring out how to setup an education edition and fully manage it.
I still don't understand TikTok. I'm 27 for context. I've installed it twice on my phone out of curiosity and gave it an hour or so each time to figure out my preferences. It was comically bad at serving me content I would be interested in. I'm told there's stuff on there I'd like but it was just a bunch of twerking videos?
Sorry friend, the algorithm knows. It might be a tough pill to swallow, but deep down you are a person that likes twerking videos. I don't know if you're like me and never vote, like, share, or save anything, but that can be a huge difference maker. Whenever I use TikTok or IG reels, they always end up defaulting to thirst trap videos until I really start saving, following, and liking things.
Lol, I had the same experience. I was like "why do I get all these "here is my outfit" videos" until I realized they all started in their underwear and I'd linger longer than other videos. Thirst traps and disappointing self reflection was definitely my experience on there.
Not sure I’ll ever convince you, but I genuinely do not find twerking to be sexually appealing.
I saw this article pop up on Hacker News a few days ago and I completely agree with the author's sentiments.
I've used MacOS and Linux for quite a while now (over two decades) but still occasionally have to use Windows.
With Windows XP through 7, it was totally fine and usable. I just preferred the user interface paradigm of OS X more but didn't mind Windows.
But with Windows 10 and 11, it's just an ad-infested mess. Whenever I have to use Windows now it's like I'm constantly fighting against the OS to get anything done.
If you are forced to use Windows, I highly suggest looking into Windows LTSC. Its not easy to get, but it's basically a stripped down version of Windows for enterprise customers without all the bloatware.
I don't think most people should use LTSC, it can be a nightmare for compatibility with newer software. I don't like seeing it recommended online, because people following that advice rarely understand the reason for its existence.
De-bloating Windows isn't very hard, and neither is removing the "ads" that are in the Start Menu. The out-of-the-box Windows experience isn't as good as it used to be, but for people who know what they're doing its not much work to customize it to a more reasonable state.
I’ve had zero issues with LTSC and software compatibility. What have you heard/run into? I’m curious…maybe I’ve just been lucky?
The problem I’ve had with debloating Windows is that Microsoft has a nasty habit of re-enabling/adding in new obnoxious features with Windows updates. So you’re constantly battling to keep the system from ending up covered in ads/unwanted features.
Video games are the big one off the top of my head. Some games need a version much newer than the current LTSC. It is missing features that make modern fullscreen gaming a lot more tolerable. You also lose out on things like Gamepass.
Because LTSC is not really available to consumers, and only used by enterprise customers with very specific needs, anyone building consumer software for Windows 10 is pretty safe in assuming their users are no more than a year or two out of date.
I haven't had this problem on my Windows box, though I use Pro for Workstations rather than the Home version.
Yeah, one of the downsides is that it’s usually a year or two behind feature-wise. So for newer stuff like Android apps, you might have to wait a 2+ years.
I feel that I have managed to remove all of the Windows 11 bloatware. There's a powershell command that essentially lists all Windows Store apps and then pipes them into the uninstall command. I've been running that since I started using Windows 8.
If one doesn't read carefully, this is almost like "'rm -rf /' is how to remove all the bloatware and only the bloatware".
Not too far off I suppose.
Frankly I don't know anyone who has admitted to using software from the Microsoft Store. The only reason why I have ever interacted with it was because I needed to use it to get the Minecraft VR beta and for one piece of software that required a Microsoft-written media codec that was only available that way.
I've installed Ubuntu and Minecraft through it. Honestly I'd install more from it, but I don't remember it exists enough (and my windows computer is only for gaming).
I try to get things from the mac app store when possible. Effectively the same as a package manager. It ensures the binaries are unmodified and updates them when there's an update.
I use it all the time. It works and it's easier than finding random executables online. Coming from Linux, it feels natural to use it as I used my package manager.
Lots of Windows features, like WSL and Windows Terminal, are distributed through the Windows Store. Know anyone who likes Xbox Game Pass? They use a Windows Store app for it. Lots of winget packages even pull directly from the Windows Store now.
Most of these can be installed by other means, but it doesn't really make a lot of sense to do so. I would think most programmers and tech-savvy individuals would understand the benefits of using a package manager by now.
Be warned this will remove things like the Microsoft Store and XBox Game Bar, which will lead to occasional troubles. For example I wanted to update the firmware on my XBox controller. I don't have an XBox so I needed to use a Microsoft Store app to do the update. I was able to download the app in a one-off fashion from a Store webpage (and then painstakingly find and install all Store-originated dependencies for that app). In the end it worked! I also used to get error pop-ups when launching games because Windows would try to find the XBox Game Bar app and would fail.
Oh, one more thing. WSL 2 is meant to be downloaded from the Microsoft Store. If I recall correctly I asked ChatGPT how to install it without using the Store and it successfully walked me through the steps of installing WSL 2 from the command line.
Yes, people shouldn't be removing the store from their installations of Windows. It's about as silly as removing APT from Ubuntu.
I see a lot of weird advice in many of these threads and I'm convinced it mostly comes from people with a very '90s idea of what an operating system is. You can de-bloat Windows without removing its package manager, so I can't fathom why people would want to do that unless you don't understand why package managers exist in the first place.
Yeah it's fine to keep it. But the software I install, with really one exception of the XBox controller app, does not come from that package manager.
I even uninstall the store, too
It's not preinstalled. The default Windows 11 start menu simply shows some of the most popular MS Store apps, presumably to make it easier for people to find/install them. But it's only if you click the icons that they will actually be installed. So his major complaint is largely based on a misunderstanding. MS isn't very clear about that though, so his confusion is not entirely his fault.
Bitching about the new start menu is totally understandable though, since they are complete shit. But Start11 (which is also available on Steam) or OpenShell (an updated Classic Shell fork) fixes the majority of the issues with it.
IMO he's right that Windows is probably not the best environment for a 10 year old anymore though, especially vanilla Win 11. PopOS! or ChromeOS are probably a lot better. Although he should prepare himself for some headaches if his kid wants to play any popular games with their friends, like Roblox or Fortnite, since neither officially support Linux. Roblox you can get working through WINE, but Fortnite is still a no-go so they will have to dual-boot Windows to play it. And even Minecraft is a massive PITA to get working on ChromeOS, which I learned the hard way when my nephew wanted to play it on his Chromebook. Although there is thankfully now an early access version of Minecraft for Chromebook that supposedly works.
IIRC you get a download confirmation/UAC prompt when you click them. But it's been a long time since I last fresh installed Win 11 and tried it so I can't say for sure.
Edit: NM. My father actually just got a new Surface with Win 11 a few days ago, so I was able to test it. It didn't ask for any confirmation when I clicked the TikTok icon. It did show a very clear download progress indicator afterwards though. And after it's done installing there was a large notification informing that it's been installed. My account is an admin account though, so I don't know if no UAC prompt is normal.
However, even if it is, if you don't want a child to be able to install any apps you don't approve of then you can restrict that in a number of ways in the Parental Controls. You can even set it up so that they require your explicit permission before they can install any apps, requests for which are sent to you via a notification informing you of the app name and details. I had that set up on my nephew's old laptop (a hand-me-down) before he got his new Chromebook.
It occurs to me that almost all of my Linux problems are due to proprietary software which thinks of cross-platform as Windows, Mac, and maaayyyyybe Ubuntu 18. Sure there are Linux nuisances caused by the ecosystem, but most of those have workarounds. The problems are ones with no viable workaround.
This reply brought to you by me spending the morning fighting with Citrix client software.
Is that really a huge issue anymore now that they have online versions of most of their programs? Or are they still hopelessly lacking in important features?
(Given that they made their Office file format an ECMA and ISO standard and then took over a decade to make their program strictly compatible with it, it wouldn't surprise me to see the web version has compatibility as a low priority)
The DBA in me just had an anurism, and this is the rant that flowed from it
"This is the reason ERP systems were invented 40+ years ago!! Stop doing ERP things in Excel, do them in the damn ERP.
I mean this as no personal offense to anyone...but seriously people spreadsheets should be used in roughly the same capacity as a desktop calculator. If it becomes more than that... you need to make sure other bits like version control, backups, and auditing are in place. Turns out for most medium-> large companies, there's a massive database somewhere that does just that.
It’s going to happen eventually with every product that is built in an environment of quarterly reports and maximizing stockholder value. In this thing, there’s no such thing as « good enough », you MUST make more revenue quarter over quarter, or else you are failing the shareholders.
The calculus in these companies isn’t « how can we optimize value for the user? » but « how many new revenue tools can we sneak in while keeping users? »
I'd actually recommend installing the Education version of Windows if you're looking for a stripped down yet still compatible version of modern Windows. It doesn't bundle with games, has much (but not all) of the tracking disabled for compliance reasons, and essentially has the feature set of Pro.
You still need to disable things like news, but otherwise it's mostly tolerable. I still prefer mac (I firmly believe my computer should work for me, not the other way around, and mac seems to follow that ideal much closer), but using Win11 Edu is much better than stock Win11 Home.