People have said the battery life should be better than the original - due to both the more efficient AMD chips and more space for a battery. But I’d need to see real world benchmarks before I...
People have said the battery life should be better than the original - due to both the more efficient AMD chips and more space for a battery. But I’d need to see real world benchmarks before I would order one. When you’re competing in the world where M1 and M2 laptops exist, you are at a huge disadvantage with an old-world battery life. I don’t personally need 12 hours of WiFi web browsing, but too far below that and a device doesn’t make sense anymore.
For me I see the products as being multi-dimensional, with a complex optimization curve for determining which one is best to purchase. Serviceability is worth something to me. So I'm willing to...
For me I see the products as being multi-dimensional, with a complex optimization curve for determining which one is best to purchase. Serviceability is worth something to me. So I'm willing to compromise a bit on other things. But it doesn't get a tremendous multiplier. It's something that might come up once or twice in the lifespan of the device. I'd love to be able to fix it myself, upgrade it, etc. But I've bought a more freedom-focused laptop before (System76) and regret it as it's not really an excellent product overall. A Framework looks to be much better built than System76's product line - and more importantly I think their vision is stronger.
I think I’d draw a small distinction between Serviceability and what framework is offering. I think the two key things offered are Upgradability and how open the platform is. The key difference...
Serviceability
I think I’d draw a small distinction between Serviceability and what framework is offering. I think the two key things offered are Upgradability and how open the platform is.
The key difference for me, is the commitment to ship future parts that will work with the platform, rather than just the ability to repair and replace existing parts.
I agree the serviceability is a small modifier, but to me upgradability is actually a huge modifier. Largely because different components in laptop age at very different rates. Being able to upgrade my CPU without having to also buy a new screen is hugely beneficial to me.
I’m happy to eat the power difference between the M2 chip in the meantime for the ability to upgrade components, whereas if it was only a promise of serviceability, I probably would have gone back to Apple already.
Nah, I went from being a Thinkpad tinkerer (basically a slam dunk user for a Framework) to a Macbook Pro 16 because the screen was far better than anything else on the market, and I could trust...
Nah, I went from being a Thinkpad tinkerer (basically a slam dunk user for a Framework) to a Macbook Pro 16 because the screen was far better than anything else on the market, and I could trust the battery would hold out for multiple days without having to plug it in (due to being more power efficient and having reliable sleep mode). It's a laptop, I want it to be portable, I don't want to be worrying about plugging it in and moving the charger all about my house depending on where I happen to be using the thing. The M1 chip has been a game changer for me for that reason.
I bought an MBP before freshman year of undergrad, never had a Mac before. I had been using Gentoo on an awful HP consumer grade laptop since middle school (I was a kid, cut me some slack), but I...
I bought an MBP before freshman year of undergrad, never had a Mac before. I had been using Gentoo on an awful HP consumer grade laptop since middle school (I was a kid, cut me some slack), but I knew I'd need a non Linux OS for my laptop in college for Office and the dumb software you're often required to install for classes, which I was worried wouldn't work in wine, so it seemed pretty obvious to choose a Mac since MacOS is far more similar to Linux than Windows is. I was right, MacOS is an extremely comfy Unix imo once you get homebrew installed.
The issue was the hardware. I got it during the first wave of butterfly keyboards. The left shift stopped taking inputs in like 6 months, so I used a tool to remap shift to caps lock. Within another 6 months, caps lock physically stopped moving, like you couldn't depress it anymore, it was just frozen in place. So I used that same tool to remap shift to left ctrl. Somewhere in there the J key (I used vim for note taking) had fully broke off over a period of time where one clasp broke at a time. The minus key was mostly broken within a year but never fully came off. Several other random keys had partially broken but were still partially attached to the keyboard. One time the BIOS said some insane shit at me when I booted, and when I got into MacOS the keyboard remap to make shift work had stopped functioning; I soon figured out that something had happened where my remap had become permanent, and now only worked when the remap program was turned off, lol. Still don't know what happened there.
Then around the two year mark my screen stopped working. But actually the screen was fine, because you could see it turned on when the laptop was 80% of the way closed, it just went blank when you opened it to an angle where you could use it. I took it to an Apple store where I was told that it and the keyboard breaking constantly were an extremely common issue and it would be $1500 to replace the "display module" to make the screen usable again.
So instead I bought an XPS, went back to Linux, and haven't had an issue with hardware in the five years since.
I hear a lot about the build quality of Macs, and I know I got a particularly bad year for it but in my experience while MacOS is extremely comfy and almost makes up for it, the build quality and overall hardware design of their machines was shockingly bad. I didn't even get half of the bizarre hardware issues friends of mine with the same model got. Knew plenty with SSD failures, etc. Bonkers.
A few years of macbooks (2018ish?) had flimsy keyboards, which is a shame because more recent ones are excellent. Also the touchpads have always been excellent.
A few years of macbooks (2018ish?) had flimsy keyboards, which is a shame because more recent ones are excellent. Also the touchpads have always been excellent.
I remember liking the touchpad. And I've definitely heard the keyboards got better. Mine was 2017. I think they started releasing butterfly keyboards in 2016, and finally gave up in 2019. And...
I remember liking the touchpad. And I've definitely heard the keyboards got better. Mine was 2017. I think they started releasing butterfly keyboards in 2016, and finally gave up in 2019. And during that period almost every Macbook model had insane hardware issues, not limited to the keyboard. Most of my friends had Macbooks, and most of those got new ones for the start of undergrad, so I knew a lot of people with that era of Macbook, and all of them would have just the most absurd hardware breakages.
Yeah. I can't wait for when ARM chips, and just the blend of battery/energy consumption/heat production that the M-series Mac chips have perfect make their way over to the non-Mac world, and...
But I’d need to see real world benchmarks before I would order one. When you’re competing in the world where M1 and M2 laptops exist, you are at a huge disadvantage with an old-world battery life. I don’t personally need 12 hours of WiFi web browsing, but too far below that and a device doesn’t make sense anymore.
Yeah. I can't wait for when ARM chips, and just the blend of battery/energy consumption/heat production that the M-series Mac chips have perfect make their way over to the non-Mac world, and especially into a laptop with the ethos of the Framework. It is a true shame that Apple are the only in their league.
Especially for Linux folks I can see ARM being feasible in a couple of years. Apple got a massive jump in performance and efficiency from M1 but that trend has not continued with the M2. Yes, the...
Especially for Linux folks I can see ARM being feasible in a couple of years. Apple got a massive jump in performance and efficiency from M1 but that trend has not continued with the M2. Yes, the Pro, Max and Ultra versions are each big steps up but the base model didn't improve much between the generations. It's clear the big benefit was switching to their customized ARM chips and iterative improvements are to be expected now. So I would expect other ARM chips will be within the ballpark of an M2's capabilities soon.
Based on rumors, it's looking like the M3 is shaping up to be a much more significant generation, if only because it's built on TSMC's 3N(B/E) node (M2 was 5NP vs M1's 5N). M2 was somewhat...
Based on rumors, it's looking like the M3 is shaping up to be a much more significant generation, if only because it's built on TSMC's 3N(B/E) node (M2 was 5NP vs M1's 5N). M2 was somewhat analogous to the "tock" of the "tick tock" cycle that Intel used to follow, where they'd release a significant revision followed by a minor one.
To be fair, I'm not sure if a device like this is targeting Mac owners. But I do speak from bias as someone who's only really used high end laptops for professional purposes. Carrying my charger...
When you’re competing in the world where M1 and M2 laptops exist, you are at a huge disadvantage with an old-world battery life. I
To be fair, I'm not sure if a device like this is targeting Mac owners. But I do speak from bias as someone who's only really used high end laptops for professional purposes. Carrying my charger is as natural as carrying a battery pack, even just for those "just in case" scenarios.
I'm not a Mac owner myself. But I'm in the market for a new laptop and I'm content with Linux, Windows, and MacOS - so anything is on the table. I've done development under Linux, WSL, and MacOS....
I'm not a Mac owner myself. But I'm in the market for a new laptop and I'm content with Linux, Windows, and MacOS - so anything is on the table. I've done development under Linux, WSL, and MacOS. They each work fine enough for web development.
I've noticed a lot of talk about Apple's battery life in certain models with the M series chips and it's definitely a power efficient chip but you actually start using it and you'll find it's...
I've noticed a lot of talk about Apple's battery life in certain models with the M series chips and it's definitely a power efficient chip but you actually start using it and you'll find it's consuming as much battery as many other x86 ultrabooks.
I can get 8-10+ hours out of an x86 laptop with a large 90+Wh battery if all I'm doing is idling/web browsing/even watching some videos etc but start putting 20W+ load on the CPU and you're looking at 3ish hours just like the Apple. People do talk as if the concept of putting a 90+Wh battery in an x86 laptop hasn't been done though which is funny.
I got a laptop with a 97Wh battery recently and I've begun to wonder how I survived before... I agree, this should have an option for a larger battery. That said, the focus of the 16" seems to be...
I got a laptop with a 97Wh battery recently and I've begun to wonder how I survived before...
I agree, this should have an option for a larger battery. That said, the focus of the 16" seems to be on performance and the assumption it will be used plugged into the wall most often.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I jumped at the chance to get the 16" AMD version. One of my friends has the 13.5" one which I've seen in person, and while I love the keyboard that screen...
I don't know about the rest of you, but I jumped at the chance to get the 16" AMD version. One of my friends has the 13.5" one which I've seen in person, and while I love the keyboard that screen seems just a bit too small for me.
I really like what the company is doing in regards to repairability, and environmental impact. Having easily accessible components on the inside will make it (hopefully) a dream to upgrade or fix in the future.
This is going to be a shared laptop between me and my partner, with my uses being mostly mobile programming (I don't like sitting at my tower all day long) and hers being digital art and marketing her art online.
Anyone else here have one? Thinking of getting one? Any customizations that you've made or are interested in doing?
I would get Framework, the smaller one. Why I didn't get one? Too expensive for a thing that I don't actually have a need for at the moment. I absolutely love Framework's attitude towards...
I would get Framework, the smaller one.
Why I didn't get one? Too expensive for a thing that I don't actually have a need for at the moment.
I absolutely love Framework's attitude towards repairability! If I wanted to buy a laptop, I would save for Framework.
Agreed, it is one of the most expensive items I've purchased in the last several years. My thinking (hoping) is that it will outlast any other laptop that I would have bought simply because I can...
Agreed, it is one of the most expensive items I've purchased in the last several years. My thinking (hoping) is that it will outlast any other laptop that I would have bought simply because I can replace components vs buying a whole new laptop, meaning it's the cheaper option the longer that I get use out of it. We'll see how my gamble goes!
This is sort of my issue to. I've got an 8.5" laptop that I love, but if I wasn't going for something like that, I'd probably have the smaller framework.
This is sort of my issue to. I've got an 8.5" laptop that I love, but if I wasn't going for something like that, I'd probably have the smaller framework.
Ah sorry i lied, it's just 8, but here- https://gpd.hk/gpdpocket3 Obviously there's some concerns with a small HK company like that, but I've had mine for a few years now and have been nothing but...
Obviously there's some concerns with a small HK company like that, but I've had mine for a few years now and have been nothing but thrilled with it. I've dropped it quite a bit and it still works fine (a small piece of trim fell off the hinge for the screen but that's it).
I LOVE that it's got plenty of connectors, including a full sized ethernet and HDMI, and the swivel screen/tent mode stuff actually gets a lot of use for me because i have a small keyboard and mouse on me whenever i have the laptop. The touchpad layout is surprisingly nice as well since it lets you use it in a sort of "portable" mode where you just use your thumbs to navigate. It has a modular port at the back, but I've honestly almost never used it (i might if i could get the SD card module but I'm not giving ali baba my ID for that).
It's obviously not a powerhouse, but as a main "have it on me now" machine for notes/coding/remoting/etc it has been nothing but glorious
Edit -
I should mention that a 4 has been rumored for awhile and they've got other products more for gaming as well. Might want to look into if the new one is coming out if anyone does consider getting one.
Looks awesome! I saw videos on that companies more gaming oriented products, but I thought that was all they made. How much did you pay for yours? I 've been in the market for a new laptop, just...
Looks awesome! I saw videos on that companies more gaming oriented products, but I thought that was all they made. How much did you pay for yours? I 've been in the market for a new laptop, just for some note-taking and basic photo editing, and I love something compact, so this seems perfect!
$1200 since i really wanted the 16 GB of ram, nicer cpu, and the modules. I think the 16gb without the modules is $1000 and the 8GB is $800? It's obviously less power per dollar compared to...
$1200 since i really wanted the 16 GB of ram, nicer cpu, and the modules. I think the 16gb without the modules is $1000 and the 8GB is $800?
It's obviously less power per dollar compared to similar priced options, but since I use it to mostly code/internet/movies it's fine. I would maybe watch some reviews depending on how heavy the photo editing you're doing is. I don't do anything too intensive with mine outside of the occasional game, and it's of course hit or miss there.
This is exactly where I'm at. I love the concept and I definitely want to support places that have repairability as a priority. If it were a cheaper product, I'd probably buy one just to support a...
This is exactly where I'm at. I love the concept and I definitely want to support places that have repairability as a priority. If it were a cheaper product, I'd probably buy one just to support a company who's vision I agree. As it is, I am just going to wait until I need a laptop and then I'll probably buy one.
I’ve got a 13 inch (11th gen intel) and I love it. Very excited to upgrade it later this year. If I wasn’t upgrading my 13”, I’d definitely buy the 16”. I’m super excited for it, but just don’t...
I’ve got a 13 inch (11th gen intel) and I love it. Very excited to upgrade it later this year.
If I wasn’t upgrading my 13”, I’d definitely buy the 16”. I’m super excited for it, but just don’t have a good excuse to buy it when I’ve got the 13”.
This is looking to be very promising. Framework's been on my radar since the release of the 13, and this new model checks almost all of my boxes for an upgrade over my current 4 year old gaming...
This is looking to be very promising. Framework's been on my radar since the release of the 13, and this new model checks almost all of my boxes for an upgrade over my current 4 year old gaming laptop. I've also been keen to move away from Nvidia cards and so the "AMD advantage" here is very enticing. The price seems a bit steep up front, but if it's only going to be around $500 for a new discrete graphics module upgrade (judging from the price in the current configurator), this could be great value in the long term. Ryzen 7040 series and RX 7700S to start has my hopes up. I'll have to see some benchmarks and reviews of its overall build before pulling the trigger, but this is definitely at the top of my list for a potential upgrade in a few years.
It's crazy to me that AMD's mobile dGPU's really haven't been given much of a chance to prove themselves. Aside from this though I support any and all efforts to bring upgradeable GPU's to...
It's crazy to me that AMD's mobile dGPU's really haven't been given much of a chance to prove themselves. Aside from this though I support any and all efforts to bring upgradeable GPU's to laptops, I know this could all go wrong and it does require ongoing commitment and adherence to this particular standard from Framework but it does set this product apart from everything else.
Repairability isn't relevant for me, all laptops are repairable and I've never had any issue working on them but if this is a laptop that will truly be kept up to date with slot in GPU modules - and it looks like they've tackled this challenge in the only real way it can be properly achieved - then it is truly unique and appealing.
I'm in the market actually! I collected a few reviews below. These reviews all seem to be for the 13-inch model. The reviews generally say that there are no significant drawbacks compared to other...
Exemplary
I'm in the market actually! I collected a few reviews below. These reviews all seem to be for the 13-inch model. The reviews generally say that there are no significant drawbacks compared to other modern laptops. But the price is high (in exchange for modular design and repairability). The lack of a touchscreen option gives me a little pause (but not much).
I had basically two concerns about the Framework Laptop I reviewed last year. Its repairability was both attractive and admirable, but the short battery life and thin audio just made it a rough sell for its price.... They fixed both problems big time. That basically leaves the generic, plasticky look and feel as the only real knocks on this device — and those, of course, won’t be problems for everyone.
[...]
Of course, the Framework is also a good deal more expensive, which I suppose is a decent reminder that even in a world where every company under the sun is pushing sustainability as a core element of their gadgets, true user-repairability still has a price.
Ars Technica (This review is interesting because they got a 2023 laptop by upgrading their 2022 laptop with a few new parts):
If you're considering a Framework Laptop for the first time, the company has fixed many of the things about the laptop that we listed as cons last year, especially the battery life. If you're upgrading an older model, at least one or two of the components in that jumble of parts we got is worth considering as an upgrade. And in either case, you might want to wait for the upcoming AMD Ryzen edition—at least, as long as the computer you're currently using can get you by until "late Q3," when those laptops and mainboards are currently slated to ship.
There's a lot to love about Framework's inaugural laptop. Working on it is downright comfortable thanks to the nice tall screen and spacious, satisfying keyboard. It's thin and light enough to throw in a bag for all-day carry, and the 10-hour battery life should let you get away with not packing a charger. Plus, the swappable card system lets you reconfigure it on the fly with whatever ports you'll need for the day.
But the real selling point is how wonderfully accessible and repairable the Framework Laptop is, and the value of that will vary greatly depending on how excited you are to crack one open. For those of us who prize having easy access to our devices, the Framework is the best example yet that laptops can be powerful, portable, user-accessible, and still sold for a competitive price. It's a real achievement, one I'd like to see other laptop manufacturers copy.
But if you'd rather not worry about swapping out pieces of your laptop, there are other devices on the market which deliver better performance than the Framework for less. The Asus Zenbook 13 OLED, for example, is an excellent ultraportable that tops out at around $1k and offers a gorgeous OLED screen, great performance, and fantastic battery life.
And of course, a big part of the Framework Laptop's value is tied up in how well the company supports the community post-launch. Framework has admirable plans to continue releasing new expansion cards and components, as well as reference designs and specs so both partner companies and the community at large can build their own accessories and sell them on the Framework Marketplace.
If that all pans out, owning a Framework Laptop could grant you access to a community of fans and vendors for years to come. But if Framework can't follow through on its promises, Framework owners might end up on their own.
Really love what Framework are doing! I got a Macbook Pro at the end of 2021 as the Windows options didn't really stand out to me but I would've gotten a Framework 16 if it were available back...
Really love what Framework are doing! I got a Macbook Pro at the end of 2021 as the Windows options didn't really stand out to me but I would've gotten a Framework 16 if it were available back then. Hope these guys keep making computers for a long time.
Is the 13 inch too big? That seems like a good compromise between size and portability to me. I'd probably get that one if I didn't already have a Surface and a 16 inch laptop available to me.
Is the 13 inch too big? That seems like a good compromise between size and portability to me. I'd probably get that one if I didn't already have a Surface and a 16 inch laptop available to me.
I just renewed my warranty for my Alienware Area51M, which promised upgradeability and then went womp because the sockets changed between generations of CPU. With that said Framework is doing...
I just renewed my warranty for my Alienware Area51M, which promised upgradeability and then went womp because the sockets changed between generations of CPU.
With that said Framework is doing exactly what it said it would do and I really like that, so ill be saving the money to get an FW16 once the warranty is up on the A51M next year.
Debated getting a FW13 to test the feasibility but I couldn't justify spending £600+ on a laptop that'd only be used for car diagnostics so went with a refurbished Thinkpad instead for £120.
Meh, if I havent bought a new notebook a year ago, I would be open to buy the AMD variant. I now have a Schenker Via 15 Pro, which is a Tongfang PF5NU1G variant. Bought it because its slim, light,...
Meh, if I havent bought a new notebook a year ago, I would be open to buy the AMD variant. I now have a Schenker Via 15 Pro, which is a Tongfang PF5NU1G variant. Bought it because its slim, light, is AMD and has no dedicated GPU. The battery life is amazing on Linux. I can use it for two days without charging. The AMD chipsets are very good on the battery. My notebook has problems with HDMI at 4k/60hz and usb c charging seems to restart constantly. So its not perfect in that regard.
The repairability and extension options seem pretty cool. Maybe in a few years. :)
Assuming you have to rely on them to release new pnp gpus...wish more companies did this, sucks that laptops are not super modular and just basically become ewaste. I've been using the same case...
Assuming you have to rely on them to release new pnp gpus...wish more companies did this, sucks that laptops are not super modular and just basically become ewaste. I've been using the same case for my PC for nearly a decade now, still running some of my old SSDs as well. And my old parts just become my new NAS. Laptops though, just collect dust once they've lived their life which is usually 6-7 years for me and then collect dust
Still waiting on a 2 in 1 MS surface ripoff variant. And with the new battery legislation, it might even have a no-tool removable battery if they announce (that or they just won't sell that model...
Still waiting on a 2 in 1 MS surface ripoff variant. And with the new battery legislation, it might even have a no-tool removable battery if they announce (that or they just won't sell that model in the EU).
Looks real nice! I have a few outstanding questions but if they check out then my next laptop purchase will likely be one of these. I'll check out reviews and see how they are in the wild first...
Looks real nice! I have a few outstanding questions but if they check out then my next laptop purchase will likely be one of these. I'll check out reviews and see how they are in the wild first though, and I don't need one right this minute.
Being able to swap out the graphics card and motherboards easily is a big selling point to me. Having a case to put the old motherboard in to use as a server in the future is also very attractive.
The 16:10 display is also a must for me, though it's a shame the bezels are so large. It looks like a 17" form factor laptop with big bezels which is a bummer.
I'm very curious about the graphics expansion and whether it has a hdmi port on it or not? I like playing vr and passing the hdmi output through one of the expansion cards smells like trouble to me.
There are no external ports on the GPU module as far as I have seen. Internally there is an interposer bridge that looks to simply be PCIe x8 connecting the GPU to the motherboard. HDMI output...
There are no external ports on the GPU module as far as I have seen. Internally there is an interposer bridge that looks to simply be PCIe x8 connecting the GPU to the motherboard. HDMI output should not be an issue though, the machine lets you customize external ports (as far as I know they're all USB-C internally) with slot in modules: https://frame.work/fr/en/products/hdmi-expansion-card
I have the 12th edition DIY version and whilst its a nice machine, I'm disappointed by the poor battery life caused by the expansion cards constantly draining the battery, even during sleep /...
People have said the battery life should be better than the original - due to both the more efficient AMD chips and more space for a battery. But I’d need to see real world benchmarks before I would order one. When you’re competing in the world where M1 and M2 laptops exist, you are at a huge disadvantage with an old-world battery life. I don’t personally need 12 hours of WiFi web browsing, but too far below that and a device doesn’t make sense anymore.
For me I see the products as being multi-dimensional, with a complex optimization curve for determining which one is best to purchase. Serviceability is worth something to me. So I'm willing to compromise a bit on other things. But it doesn't get a tremendous multiplier. It's something that might come up once or twice in the lifespan of the device. I'd love to be able to fix it myself, upgrade it, etc. But I've bought a more freedom-focused laptop before (System76) and regret it as it's not really an excellent product overall. A Framework looks to be much better built than System76's product line - and more importantly I think their vision is stronger.
I think I’d draw a small distinction between Serviceability and what framework is offering. I think the two key things offered are Upgradability and how open the platform is.
The key difference for me, is the commitment to ship future parts that will work with the platform, rather than just the ability to repair and replace existing parts.
I agree the serviceability is a small modifier, but to me upgradability is actually a huge modifier. Largely because different components in laptop age at very different rates. Being able to upgrade my CPU without having to also buy a new screen is hugely beneficial to me.
I’m happy to eat the power difference between the M2 chip in the meantime for the ability to upgrade components, whereas if it was only a promise of serviceability, I probably would have gone back to Apple already.
Nah, I went from being a Thinkpad tinkerer (basically a slam dunk user for a Framework) to a Macbook Pro 16 because the screen was far better than anything else on the market, and I could trust the battery would hold out for multiple days without having to plug it in (due to being more power efficient and having reliable sleep mode). It's a laptop, I want it to be portable, I don't want to be worrying about plugging it in and moving the charger all about my house depending on where I happen to be using the thing. The M1 chip has been a game changer for me for that reason.
If you're buying a laptop for a family member because you're their IT support, I think you'd consider both a Framework and a MacBook Air
I bought an MBP before freshman year of undergrad, never had a Mac before. I had been using Gentoo on an awful HP consumer grade laptop since middle school (I was a kid, cut me some slack), but I knew I'd need a non Linux OS for my laptop in college for Office and the dumb software you're often required to install for classes, which I was worried wouldn't work in wine, so it seemed pretty obvious to choose a Mac since MacOS is far more similar to Linux than Windows is. I was right, MacOS is an extremely comfy Unix imo once you get homebrew installed.
The issue was the hardware. I got it during the first wave of butterfly keyboards. The left shift stopped taking inputs in like 6 months, so I used a tool to remap shift to caps lock. Within another 6 months, caps lock physically stopped moving, like you couldn't depress it anymore, it was just frozen in place. So I used that same tool to remap shift to left ctrl. Somewhere in there the J key (I used vim for note taking) had fully broke off over a period of time where one clasp broke at a time. The minus key was mostly broken within a year but never fully came off. Several other random keys had partially broken but were still partially attached to the keyboard. One time the BIOS said some insane shit at me when I booted, and when I got into MacOS the keyboard remap to make shift work had stopped functioning; I soon figured out that something had happened where my remap had become permanent, and now only worked when the remap program was turned off, lol. Still don't know what happened there.
Then around the two year mark my screen stopped working. But actually the screen was fine, because you could see it turned on when the laptop was 80% of the way closed, it just went blank when you opened it to an angle where you could use it. I took it to an Apple store where I was told that it and the keyboard breaking constantly were an extremely common issue and it would be $1500 to replace the "display module" to make the screen usable again.
So instead I bought an XPS, went back to Linux, and haven't had an issue with hardware in the five years since.
I hear a lot about the build quality of Macs, and I know I got a particularly bad year for it but in my experience while MacOS is extremely comfy and almost makes up for it, the build quality and overall hardware design of their machines was shockingly bad. I didn't even get half of the bizarre hardware issues friends of mine with the same model got. Knew plenty with SSD failures, etc. Bonkers.
A few years of macbooks (2018ish?) had flimsy keyboards, which is a shame because more recent ones are excellent. Also the touchpads have always been excellent.
I remember liking the touchpad. And I've definitely heard the keyboards got better. Mine was 2017. I think they started releasing butterfly keyboards in 2016, and finally gave up in 2019. And during that period almost every Macbook model had insane hardware issues, not limited to the keyboard. Most of my friends had Macbooks, and most of those got new ones for the start of undergrad, so I knew a lot of people with that era of Macbook, and all of them would have just the most absurd hardware breakages.
I wasn't endorsing anything, just thought I'd mention a situation where both would be considered. Many families give older folks Apple products
Having watched my family forget how to use a Windows PC over the past decade-ish (thanks Android) I really don't fancy introducing them to MacOS.
Yeah. I can't wait for when ARM chips, and just the blend of battery/energy consumption/heat production that the M-series Mac chips have perfect make their way over to the non-Mac world, and especially into a laptop with the ethos of the Framework. It is a true shame that Apple are the only in their league.
Especially for Linux folks I can see ARM being feasible in a couple of years. Apple got a massive jump in performance and efficiency from M1 but that trend has not continued with the M2. Yes, the Pro, Max and Ultra versions are each big steps up but the base model didn't improve much between the generations. It's clear the big benefit was switching to their customized ARM chips and iterative improvements are to be expected now. So I would expect other ARM chips will be within the ballpark of an M2's capabilities soon.
Based on rumors, it's looking like the M3 is shaping up to be a much more significant generation, if only because it's built on TSMC's 3N(B/E) node (M2 was 5NP vs M1's 5N). M2 was somewhat analogous to the "tock" of the "tick tock" cycle that Intel used to follow, where they'd release a significant revision followed by a minor one.
I think “tick” is the small improvement
To be fair, I'm not sure if a device like this is targeting Mac owners. But I do speak from bias as someone who's only really used high end laptops for professional purposes. Carrying my charger is as natural as carrying a battery pack, even just for those "just in case" scenarios.
I'm not a Mac owner myself. But I'm in the market for a new laptop and I'm content with Linux, Windows, and MacOS - so anything is on the table. I've done development under Linux, WSL, and MacOS. They each work fine enough for web development.
I've noticed a lot of talk about Apple's battery life in certain models with the M series chips and it's definitely a power efficient chip but you actually start using it and you'll find it's consuming as much battery as many other x86 ultrabooks.
I can get 8-10+ hours out of an x86 laptop with a large 90+Wh battery if all I'm doing is idling/web browsing/even watching some videos etc but start putting 20W+ load on the CPU and you're looking at 3ish hours just like the Apple. People do talk as if the concept of putting a 90+Wh battery in an x86 laptop hasn't been done though which is funny.
I got a laptop with a 97Wh battery recently and I've begun to wonder how I survived before...
I agree, this should have an option for a larger battery. That said, the focus of the 16" seems to be on performance and the assumption it will be used plugged into the wall most often.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I jumped at the chance to get the 16" AMD version. One of my friends has the 13.5" one which I've seen in person, and while I love the keyboard that screen seems just a bit too small for me.
I really like what the company is doing in regards to repairability, and environmental impact. Having easily accessible components on the inside will make it (hopefully) a dream to upgrade or fix in the future.
This is going to be a shared laptop between me and my partner, with my uses being mostly mobile programming (I don't like sitting at my tower all day long) and hers being digital art and marketing her art online.
Anyone else here have one? Thinking of getting one? Any customizations that you've made or are interested in doing?
I would get Framework, the smaller one.
Why I didn't get one? Too expensive for a thing that I don't actually have a need for at the moment.
I absolutely love Framework's attitude towards repairability! If I wanted to buy a laptop, I would save for Framework.
Agreed, it is one of the most expensive items I've purchased in the last several years. My thinking (hoping) is that it will outlast any other laptop that I would have bought simply because I can replace components vs buying a whole new laptop, meaning it's the cheaper option the longer that I get use out of it. We'll see how my gamble goes!
This is sort of my issue to. I've got an 8.5" laptop that I love, but if I wasn't going for something like that, I'd probably have the smaller framework.
Can you tell me what your 8.5 is? I haven't seen a sub-10-inch laptop since the netbook days.
Ah sorry i lied, it's just 8, but here-
https://gpd.hk/gpdpocket3
Obviously there's some concerns with a small HK company like that, but I've had mine for a few years now and have been nothing but thrilled with it. I've dropped it quite a bit and it still works fine (a small piece of trim fell off the hinge for the screen but that's it).
I LOVE that it's got plenty of connectors, including a full sized ethernet and HDMI, and the swivel screen/tent mode stuff actually gets a lot of use for me because i have a small keyboard and mouse on me whenever i have the laptop. The touchpad layout is surprisingly nice as well since it lets you use it in a sort of "portable" mode where you just use your thumbs to navigate. It has a modular port at the back, but I've honestly almost never used it (i might if i could get the SD card module but I'm not giving ali baba my ID for that).
It's obviously not a powerhouse, but as a main "have it on me now" machine for notes/coding/remoting/etc it has been nothing but glorious
Edit -
I should mention that a 4 has been rumored for awhile and they've got other products more for gaming as well. Might want to look into if the new one is coming out if anyone does consider getting one.
Looks awesome! I saw videos on that companies more gaming oriented products, but I thought that was all they made. How much did you pay for yours? I 've been in the market for a new laptop, just for some note-taking and basic photo editing, and I love something compact, so this seems perfect!
$1200 since i really wanted the 16 GB of ram, nicer cpu, and the modules. I think the 16gb without the modules is $1000 and the 8GB is $800?
It's obviously less power per dollar compared to similar priced options, but since I use it to mostly code/internet/movies it's fine. I would maybe watch some reviews depending on how heavy the photo editing you're doing is. I don't do anything too intensive with mine outside of the occasional game, and it's of course hit or miss there.
Seems great!
This is exactly where I'm at. I love the concept and I definitely want to support places that have repairability as a priority. If it were a cheaper product, I'd probably buy one just to support a company who's vision I agree. As it is, I am just going to wait until I need a laptop and then I'll probably buy one.
I’ve got a 13 inch (11th gen intel) and I love it. Very excited to upgrade it later this year.
If I wasn’t upgrading my 13”, I’d definitely buy the 16”. I’m super excited for it, but just don’t have a good excuse to buy it when I’ve got the 13”.
This is looking to be very promising. Framework's been on my radar since the release of the 13, and this new model checks almost all of my boxes for an upgrade over my current 4 year old gaming laptop. I've also been keen to move away from Nvidia cards and so the "AMD advantage" here is very enticing. The price seems a bit steep up front, but if it's only going to be around $500 for a new discrete graphics module upgrade (judging from the price in the current configurator), this could be great value in the long term. Ryzen 7040 series and RX 7700S to start has my hopes up. I'll have to see some benchmarks and reviews of its overall build before pulling the trigger, but this is definitely at the top of my list for a potential upgrade in a few years.
It's crazy to me that AMD's mobile dGPU's really haven't been given much of a chance to prove themselves. Aside from this though I support any and all efforts to bring upgradeable GPU's to laptops, I know this could all go wrong and it does require ongoing commitment and adherence to this particular standard from Framework but it does set this product apart from everything else.
Repairability isn't relevant for me, all laptops are repairable and I've never had any issue working on them but if this is a laptop that will truly be kept up to date with slot in GPU modules - and it looks like they've tackled this challenge in the only real way it can be properly achieved - then it is truly unique and appealing.
I'm in the market actually! I collected a few reviews below. These reviews all seem to be for the 13-inch model. The reviews generally say that there are no significant drawbacks compared to other modern laptops. But the price is high (in exchange for modular design and repairability). The lack of a touchscreen option gives me a little pause (but not much).
The Verge:
Ars Technica (This review is interesting because they got a 2023 laptop by upgrading their 2022 laptop with a few new parts):
Tom's Guide:
Really love what Framework are doing! I got a Macbook Pro at the end of 2021 as the Windows options didn't really stand out to me but I would've gotten a Framework 16 if it were available back then. Hope these guys keep making computers for a long time.
I really hope that they make an 11/12 inch one in the future, I love my small laptops.
Is the 13 inch too big? That seems like a good compromise between size and portability to me. I'd probably get that one if I didn't already have a Surface and a 16 inch laptop available to me.
Yep. The 11 inch Macbook Air was my favourite laptop for a long time, but it's getting pretty old now, so I'd like something new.
Wish they shipped worldwide, though I’d go with a 13 inch one.
I just renewed my warranty for my Alienware Area51M, which promised upgradeability and then went womp because the sockets changed between generations of CPU.
With that said Framework is doing exactly what it said it would do and I really like that, so ill be saving the money to get an FW16 once the warranty is up on the A51M next year.
Debated getting a FW13 to test the feasibility but I couldn't justify spending £600+ on a laptop that'd only be used for car diagnostics so went with a refurbished Thinkpad instead for £120.
If it had a touch screen I’d probably go for it. Given the modular nature of it, I’m surprised this isn’t an option.
Meh, if I havent bought a new notebook a year ago, I would be open to buy the AMD variant. I now have a Schenker Via 15 Pro, which is a Tongfang PF5NU1G variant. Bought it because its slim, light, is AMD and has no dedicated GPU. The battery life is amazing on Linux. I can use it for two days without charging. The AMD chipsets are very good on the battery. My notebook has problems with HDMI at 4k/60hz and usb c charging seems to restart constantly. So its not perfect in that regard.
The repairability and extension options seem pretty cool. Maybe in a few years. :)
The Verge hands on preview: Framework Laptop 16: our exclusive hands-on
Assuming you have to rely on them to release new pnp gpus...wish more companies did this, sucks that laptops are not super modular and just basically become ewaste. I've been using the same case for my PC for nearly a decade now, still running some of my old SSDs as well. And my old parts just become my new NAS. Laptops though, just collect dust once they've lived their life which is usually 6-7 years for me and then collect dust
Still waiting on a 2 in 1 MS surface ripoff variant. And with the new battery legislation, it might even have a no-tool removable battery if they announce (that or they just won't sell that model in the EU).
Looks real nice! I have a few outstanding questions but if they check out then my next laptop purchase will likely be one of these. I'll check out reviews and see how they are in the wild first though, and I don't need one right this minute.
Being able to swap out the graphics card and motherboards easily is a big selling point to me. Having a case to put the old motherboard in to use as a server in the future is also very attractive.
The 16:10 display is also a must for me, though it's a shame the bezels are so large. It looks like a 17" form factor laptop with big bezels which is a bummer.
I'm very curious about the graphics expansion and whether it has a hdmi port on it or not? I like playing vr and passing the hdmi output through one of the expansion cards smells like trouble to me.
There are no external ports on the GPU module as far as I have seen. Internally there is an interposer bridge that looks to simply be PCIe x8 connecting the GPU to the motherboard. HDMI output should not be an issue though, the machine lets you customize external ports (as far as I know they're all USB-C internally) with slot in modules: https://frame.work/fr/en/products/hdmi-expansion-card
I have the 12th edition DIY version and whilst its a nice machine, I'm disappointed by the poor battery life caused by the expansion cards constantly draining the battery, even during sleep / hibernation. The issue is described here but there's no fix that I'm aware of: https://community.frame.work/t/tracking-test-results-for-standby-battery-use-of-expansion-cards/23711/29