In general, which laptop maker (OEM) provides the best compatibility for Linux desktops in terms of driver support and things like wifi, bluetooth, power efficiency, etc?
On most laptops I've had to deal with, Linux was at least installable and bootable, the only exception was perhaps the cheap bay trail tablets and notebooks released around the years 2017-19 that came with Intel Atom processors. These weird devices came with a 32-bit UEFI and 64-bit architecture, thus making it pretty much impossible to even boot with something other than the Windows 10 version specifically made for them. Legacy BIOS support wasn't there and Linux driver support was like terrible.
But other than that, based on my own experience, at least Dell laptops seem to have out of box support for Ubuntu and Debian. I think some even come with Linux or FreeDOS pre-installed.
And from what I've heard from others and online, Lenovo usually has first class support for Linux and especially the Thinkpad line seems to be a favorite of many Linux enthusiasts. Also heard some good things about Asus in this regard.
I don't even mind if the laptop comes pre-installed with Windows (guess the OEM has to do that in some cases depending on their terms with Microsoft?). All I want is that it should be relatively painless to boot to UEFI/BIOS, be able to install Linux and drivers for WiFi, Bluetooth, efficient battery life, etc. (which are pretty much necessary in laptops these days).
Of the mainstream OEMs, Lenovo, followed by Dell. Any model which is available from the factory with Linux installed will obviously be pretty easy to install Linux on later, regardless of what it actually shipped with. But to be honest, modern laptop hardware is perhaps surprisingly whitebox, and so you're likely to have a decent experience with almost any OEM.
Wifi and Bluetooth are usually handled by the same module. Modules manufactured by Atheros are ideal; Intel is fine; Broadcom is preferably avoided. Some laptop OEMs (looking at you, Lenovo) whitelist modules and won't boot up if hardware the system firmware doesn't recognize is present on the bus, so that's something you'll want to research if you can.
Thinkpads are a favorite because once upon a time they were basically the apex of laptop industrial design. Linux compatibility is as much an effect of that as of manufactured compatibility; kernel hackers liked the machines, so they worked on support for them, so they're well-supported, so they're popular with kernel hackers… The net result is good support, though, and while Lenovo's industrial design is a pale shadow of IBM's, the line remains both popular and well-supported.
Of the non-mainstream OEMs, any that sells systems with Linux pre-installed or no OS (e.g. System76, Framework) will obviously work well.
Personally speaking, I’ve always had odd problems running Linux on dell laptops. The last one I bought had components that were all individually supported, but there was some problem with the firmware that would make it fail to boot; it was something to do with the AMD-V memory space, and required me to figure out some fairly arcane-looking boot options to manually override.
Granted, that laptop is very old now, so they may be better now, but I wouldn’t buy one of their Windows laptops if I wanted to put Linux on it; I’d just buy their Linux laptops.
I think a highly recommended exercise before buying any new laptop is google search it with terms like "wifi issues in <laptop model>", "running debian in <laptop model>", etc. This will highlight any known issues beforehand. Also make sure that broadcom wifi component isn't used on the motherboard, that one specifically gives troubles with Linux installation.
I don’t personally use one, but the framework laptop is intentionally really friendly with Linux.
https://frame.work/ca/en/linux
They sure are and are customizable and repair friendly from what I've heard, but they're pretty expensive.
You can buy an older refurb laptop for around $100 and install linux on it, or you can buy an $800-$1000 framework laptop with linux preinstalled, admittedly a much better laptop though.
If I had the spare capital I'd buy one, partly out of principle, but the cheap refurb workstation laptops have served me perfectly well on linux so far.
Where does one buy these $100 refurbs in decent shape?
Newegg and sometimes Amazon.
The first one I got was ~$80 for an old dell, the second was ~$120 for an hp probook.
this is probably the kind of thing I would buy, I use my laptops for programming so they just have to run a web browser and vscodium pretty much. I also don't like the cheap plastic and super thin ones that disintegrate if you look at them too hard, think plastic walls and a puffy rounded shell are my preference since they can usually survive being dropped.
I do usually avoid dell though unless it's a very old model since dell is pretty trash and their modern laptops are held together with spit and paperclips. Usually I'll shop for a bit to find the best fit for me, this isn't perfect but it's a quick pick as an example.
https://www.newegg.com/p/2S3-0007-00103?Item=9SIBBPDK6P0432
Apparently walmart for some reason sells one for $110
Also just while checking neweggs refurb laptop prices again I found something that just seems crazy:
https://www.newegg.com/p/1TS-000E-0VXB9?Item=9SIA24GGPV7938
92% off an $800 computer? Do you have to trade in your firstborn as well?
Out of curiosity I purchased that x1 Nano. It said $69 in the cart but they charged me $669.99 on the receipt. Cancelled immediately. If it’s too good to be true…
Figures, thanks for testing.
X270 ThinkPads are something like $170 but I am not sure what you could get for 100
eBay. I’ve bought a bunch of computers from there and found a bunch of solid deals. $100 is a bit too little for any modern laptop though, $300-400 seems to be the sweet spot for value from what I’ve seen.
Framework and system76. If its my money I would buy a framework.
As a system76 laptop owner, ditto.
Hi @PuddleOfKittens Curious, would you care to provide an anecdote or details aroiund why you wold choose Framework considering you're an owner of a system76 laptop?
I didn't own a system76 laptop but I owned a clevo laptop from another reseller and the build quality was worse than I expected and my expectations were low. The thing had coil whine and the screws would strip easily. I returned it and got a framework.
Ah-ha, ok, thanks that helps! Yeah, i had not known until recently that system 76 really just rebranded clevo laptops. (Not sure if still the case, or if the case for all their models, etc.) But, yeah, that's good to know. While i really want to support companies that put linux first - like system76 - i also am not in a position often to willy-nilly spend my hard-earned money on products that aren't super up to snuff. ;-)
Trackpad is awful, coil whine when charging (in specific circumstances to do with putting pressure on the chassis that I forget), charger itself has too short a cord between the brick and the laptop, the price is kind of unclear and I paid way more than I expected (shipping was $300, for a laptop).
The ports are annoying, too - there's a bunch of room to the sides of the keyboard, but I get basically squat in return. I don't want a HDMI port (HDMI but no DisplayPort, despite the latter being the open standard that FOSS drivers are more able to support). I want multiple USB-ports (plus charge port) while still being able to stand up the laptop sideways, this isn't rocket-science.
If that seems nitpicky on ports, the Framework delivers just fine and that's the key point of comparison.
Oh, also it charges via barrel jack. I want USB-C charging, dammit. Supposedly they're able to charge via USB-C, but multiple different chargers and USB-C cables empirically disagree with that claim.
There's probably other stuff I've forgotten, too. On the plus side, the laptop just works on linux (with a caveat or two, like the time a firmware update made the keyboard keep double-typing), which is my main concern on Framework.
Ultimately, I bought the system76 because 1) they both seemed pretty good, 2) I do want to support FOSS-native developers, and 3) Framework hadn't announced they ship to my country at the time, so system76 won by default.
Also the keyboard is shit (making the arrowkeys half-sized and putting page-up/page-down above left/right is awful), but that seems to be the unescapable standard in all laptops nowadays. Although, it's possible that Framework (or a third party) will release a TKL keyboard module in the future. That's more hope than I have for the lemur pro - the keyboard layout is built into the chassis.
Thanks so much; very helpful and informative!
When in doubt, go with off lease enterprise grade laptops (Latitude and Thinkpad). Anything else usually ends up being a path filled with pain.
I don't know if this is necessarily true anymore. I just got an Asus TUF 15. Not a single instruction of the NT kernel ever made it to a register; the first thing it saw was a Fedora 39 USB drive and the first thing it did was wipe the NVME. Everything's been fine with it.
Quite often the consumer grade stuff is more likely to have quality issues. That isn't to say it won't necessarily work. I've had weird issues with the control keys not working (and having to remap the caps lock as a control key).
Applying that logic, all Mac Book Pros and Airs should be super compatible with Linux!
On the other hand, extremely cheap devices (like the Bay Trail tablets/netbooks I mentioned) are a real pain. But anything mid range like Dell Inspirons or Lenovo Ideapads should be fine with Linux I think.
I mean, prior to the M1 shift that was true. The reverse-engineering the new arch is still a WIP.
The Inspirons and Ideapads might be ok, but the build quality is sus (but this is try of any "consumer grade" hardware). I think there were some Inspiron systems that Dell produced that had extra support for Linux that would be excellent. One of my current laptops is actually a Dell G3 3500, and it's run Linux flawlessly.
The macs usually end up ok if they are the older systems - the last 6-7 years they've added weird stuff that isn't supported well (touchbar?), and I think recent wifi chipsets were a little weird. On the bright side, there's been a lot of work by the OpenBSD folks for the aarch64 macs :)
I'd never heard of these before. I've only realized in the last few years how many things in computing are named after aspects of the SF bay area. Even TCP congestion control algorithms are named after spots where SF people go to vacation.
I agree that Lenovo is fairly well regarded in the Linux community. I've had two Thinkpads and had no issues with arch and Ubuntu.
I had a ASUS ROG laptop circa 2014 that was alright, but it had a broadcomm WiFi card that I could never get to work, so I had to use a wired connection
I used to use Gentoo years ago and it didn't have broadcom drivers so I had to use b43-fwcutter on a different computer and then bring it over on a flash drive but it worked fine after that.
Others have already said it, but...
If money is not an issue, I'd recommend Framework or System76. Linux is basically a first-class citizen with both vendors. I think if I were in the market again for a laptop, it would be Framework. If I were in the market for a desktop I didn't want to build myself, it would be System76.
If money is an issue, I'd probably recommend Lenovo or something enterprise-grade. Linux support tends to be good there. In times where I was a bit broke, I'd peruse Craigslist, eBay, and Facebook Marketplace for used Thinkpads. More than once I ran across someone who had a few because their employer was getting rid of a bunch of hardware since it had reached end-of-life. Typically, they were only 3-5 years old and in good shape.
I second the distinction between Desktop and Laptop suggestions. I own both a desktop and a laptop from System76, and the desktop is a quality product, while the laptop feels a bit cheap, despite a reasonably pricy tag.
I fully recommend the desktop, though. It’s been a breeze and a pleasure.
Been using a Lenovo Thinkpad x395 for some time now, one of the AMD Ryzen ones. The Thinkpad line is one of the only ones that fully release firmware updates via
fwupdmgrwhich saves a huge bit of hassle.Early on, it had trouble with GPU drivers, as they were almost brand-new to the kernel. But that got smoothed out over the course of the 5.x series. 100% reccomend AMD for this reason. You'll get far better performance than the Intel and far less hassle than the Nvidia drivers.
The only significant problem I have with this particular laptop is the dock for it. It's real finicky about the USB devices.
A bit offtopic, but a bunch of people have recommended System76 in this topic. I bought a System76 laptop years and years ago, and it was decent for the price. But back then System76 weren't an OEM, they just bought rebranded machines from Clevo, then installed Linux on them for you, and provided customer support afterwards. Nothing wrong with that, per se, since System76s customer support was great, and I've heard their new custom distro, Pop!_OS is great too. However, OP is specifically asking for an OEM.
So has System76 changed since then, and they're actually manufacturing their own components in-house now? If not, and they're still just rebranded Clevo machines, OP might want to just go buy a comparable laptop directly from Clevo instead.
That advice might work in Europe, but AFAIK Clevo does not sell directly in USA, which can make buying them more expensive or risky for people who live there.
Ah, I didn't realize that. I also only found out they apparently don't directly sell to end users anywhere either:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clevo#Customers
So the only way to get them is to buy rebranded versions. In which case, people might as well go with System76 since they specialize in Linux versions and offer specialized support for them.
One such rebrand that sells in the USA is Sager. Had one for awhile, solid machines, but can't attest to the Linux compatibility.
https://www.sagernotebook.com
Another vote for Thinkpads. Solid build quality and Linux friendliness (Fedora in my case across 5 or so various Thinkpads over the years).
I recently got a Framework 13 (Intel 13 gen), and Linux support is great. They have official support for a few distros. I use Ubuntu, and the only incompatibility issue I've run into is the screen brightness function keys (strangely, the audio and other function keys work fine). Everything works fine with minimal tweaking (they have an easy-to-follow setup guide), and I've had amazing battery life without needing to follow their battery optimization guide.
I also loved their "bring your own" options because you can get SSDs and RAM significantly cheaper than what Framework sell them for. It really is super easy to work on these laptops.
The only downside is the wonky screen resolution. Things are too small at 100% scale, way too large at 200% scale, and Ubuntu doesn't really do fractional scaling well. My solution was to do 100% scale with "big font" accessibility.
I would recommend. It ended up being cheaper than System76 laptops with the "bring your own" options.
IME, you just have to reach or exceed a modest minimum price point, and that mostly ensures that the components (wifi, graphics, etc.) are high-enough quality that Linux compatibility is more assured. What you'll want to do, though, is take your prospective purchase, identify the components that would be in it, then research Linux compatibility one by one, at least for the most important bits.
I found that, with the low end of the price spectrum, the installed parts were cheap and obscure brands, and so Linux support was spotty.
Lenovo is one of the bigs to have a good track record regarding Linux support. They have a dedicated page for that: https://lenovo.com/linux.
Also, to have an idea of Linux support by various manufacturers I would suggest these two sites:
PS: If you want to go with non-mainstream OEMs whose raison d'etre is Linux support, you can't go wrong with either System76 (US) or Tuxedo (EU).
I'm going to pile on another vote for Lenovo. I run a Thinkpad P1 with Fedora and other than graphics drivers for the Nvidia add-on graphics card, install and upgrade has been a breeze. And the Nvidia driver mess isn't really a Lenovo issue. I've struggled with it on other machines too.
I just got a Framework and my initial impression has been generally amazing. 10/10 will again! The fact the cards are like nine dollars alone makes it a winner.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned TongFang. I've been pretty happy with the Tuxedo Pulse 15 which is based on the TongFang PF5NU1G.
The keyboard feels a bit cheap but everything else is great
https://gist.github.com/davwheat/49b67aa02dd033d4aa32839e8d9b8bbd
But this specific laptop is already 2-3 years old. It's still running great. Plenty fast. But not sure what the latest equivalent of this is
I have 3 asus laptops between myself my wife and one of my kids. One is a high end gaming laptop one is a middle of the road business laptop and one was literally the cheapest one that i could possibly buy. All 3 run Linux (Fedora 39) just great. The only issue that I have had was the business grade one (expertbook) defaulted to an apm mode that made it not wake from suspend and needed a kernel parameter to make it come in and out of sleep correctly. (mem_sleep_default=deep). The asus ones have all been extremely durable and don't have any hinge issues or anything and basically still work like new. (the oldest laptop of the 3 is about 7 years old and has only needed a battery replaced).
On the flip side, I also have a Lenovo laptop that had its plastic shell start cracking and disintegrating after about 2 years of light use, and the lid no longer would support itself when I retired it. Which is a shame because lenovo laptops used to be practically invincible and I love the trackpoint mouse.
I've never had problems with Lenovo Thinkpads, though I've bought mine refurbished a few years after the models were introduced.