Hi, I finally spent the afternoon writing about the services I am using and that I would recommend. Sharing this because it might be useful for some people and maybe give others ideas. I'd like to...
Hi, I finally spent the afternoon writing about the services I am using and that I would recommend.
Sharing this because it might be useful for some people and maybe give others ideas.
I'd like to hear about your journey, if you have tried other services as well.
I've been thinking about this for a while. It's hard on also super tied in. Including the phone service which has the best international plan available. I also use Android so while other OS exists...
I've been thinking about this for a while. It's hard on also super tied in. Including the phone service which has the best international plan available.
I also use Android so while other OS exists you lose a lot of convenience. But I'm wow interested in moving to graphenos where I can use Google services if needed but in a sandboxed environment
The fortunate thing about AOSP is that you can de-google your device while still using Android if you really need to. So it's a best of both worlds. Everything except maybe assistant can be taken...
The fortunate thing about AOSP is that you can de-google your device while still using Android if you really need to. So it's a best of both worlds. Everything except maybe assistant can be taken off without rooting (you can disable that, but I'm not sure if it's ever truly disabled), but you will miss some key apps (e.g. banking) that pretty much exclusively distribute on google play store.
Haven't used Graphene, but I've heard good things about it. Though there is a little quirk that they indirectly lean on google for the hardware support.
I got a Pixel 7A last year and am running GrapheneOS. Sadly, due to work requirements, I'm usually on the profile with all the Google stuff. What is this ASOP you speak of? DDG searches aren't...
I got a Pixel 7A last year and am running GrapheneOS. Sadly, due to work requirements, I'm usually on the profile with all the Google stuff.
What is this ASOP you speak of? DDG searches aren't helpful...
It's android in general. Android Open Source Project. The base nearly every shipped device starts with before adding in their own proprietary programs. It wasn't a specific recommendation; more of...
It's android in general. Android Open Source Project. The base nearly every shipped device starts with before adding in their own proprietary programs.
It wasn't a specific recommendation; more of a reminder that Android in its purest state has minimal Google interference, backed up by being able to verify the code itself. It personally gives me a bit of state of mind should I need to fully detach from Google one day that I don't need to search for an entirely new Phone OS. Unlike Microsoft and its moves with Windows 11/12.
While searching for how Immich implemented its facial recognition feature, I came across this reddit post where the main developer states that they use Insightface to train their model. This is...
While searching for how Immich implemented its facial recognition feature, I came across this reddit post where the main developer states that they use Insightface to train their model. This is problematic because Insightface explicitly states:
The training data containing the annotation (and the models trained with these data) are available for non-commercial research purposes only.
It is possible that they might run into issues as a consequence of that in the future given the non-research nature of the project. I have not used the product, but decided to share this finding here because I believe it can be problematic to attempt to create or share Google alternatives while at the same time not being careful with how said alternatives are implemented. It might be a good idea to contact the owner of the project to mention this.
We asked insightface for permission before using their models in Immich, see the note at https://github.com/immich-app/immich/blob/main/machine-learning/README.md#license-and-use-restrictions....
I honestly have no idea because it is not clear to me what they meant by "model" in this context. It looks like the problem has to do with whether they used Insightface's training data. Based on...
I honestly have no idea because it is not clear to me what they meant by "model" in this context. It looks like the problem has to do with whether they used Insightface's training data. Based on the reddit comment it sounds to me like they did, which goes against Insightface's license. They should be able to use the same library as long as they bring their own testing data, according to the license.
I attempted to de-google when I first started learning Linux and setting up my proxmox server. I did everything I could and then eventually found I don't have the time to keep up with everything I...
I attempted to de-google when I first started learning Linux and setting up my proxmox server. I did everything I could and then eventually found I don't have the time to keep up with everything I should. Google drive, maps, and Gmail are the only Google products I use still, unfortunately. They really have us trapped it feels like.
I got rid of using Google as search and switched to duck duck go. I have old Gmail accounts I simply cannot get rid of due to the fact I've had them forever and they're linked to so many accounts. I have my own domain email through protonmail though, and I'm using photoprism as a self hosted photo server, audiobookshelf for audiobooks, and Plex for media.
I set up nextcloud but found it didn't have the same capabilities as Google drive did for me, and everyone always says nextcloud is a hacking target and I just can't risk my dumbass messing it up.
I tried to stay away from obsidian for notes because I wanted it to be self hosted but I finally caved and have it linked to my icloud and it's really smooth.
The services you still use are pretty easy to replace, just depends on your criteria. There are dozens of high quality email providers out there. Is the service being free part of your criteria?
The services you still use are pretty easy to replace, just depends on your criteria. There are dozens of high quality email providers out there.
From a technical point of view you are right. From a practical point of view migrating away from Gmail can be a bit of a task. I speak from personal experience here. I have owned my Gmail account...
From a technical point of view you are right. From a practical point of view migrating away from Gmail can be a bit of a task. I speak from personal experience here. I have owned my Gmail account since 2005, which basically means that over the past 20 years a lot of things have been tied to that account.
I have been using mailbox.org with my own domain for a while now. But I still get mails on my Gmail account that are fairly important, or at least from senders where it is important they can reach me. On receiving these mails, I do take care to contact the sender or login to whatever service to change the address. But it can take a while.
So yeah, not impossible to switch, but I can certainly see it being a daunting task for people that have had their Gmail account for a while.
I’m in this situation. I’d like to take the opportunity that switching emails provides in doing a big spring clean and just deleting old accounts and logins that I no longer use, but it’s so...
So yeah, not impossible to switch, but I can certainly see it being a daunting task for people that have had their Gmail account for a while.
I’m in this situation. I’d like to take the opportunity that switching emails provides in doing a big spring clean and just deleting old accounts and logins that I no longer use, but it’s so daunting. I briefly held the naive idea that “if I haven’t used in the last few years then I won’t need it at all, right?” But reality pretty quickly showed me that actually, just in this last year, I’ve accessed long-dormant accounts from nearly a decade ago. Just because I hadn’t needed it in the interim doesn’t mean I can just yeet everything older than a few years.
I suspect once I’m done with the full email overhaul, I’ll be going back to check my old email accounts possibly forever, but having most stuff away from google services is still leaps and bounds ahead of using them as my main email provider, from the privacy perspective.
I'm curious how or why you are tied to Google Maps. I have literally never in my life used Google Maps for live navigation. Currently I use Osmand on Android, but it's surely not the only...
I'm curious how or why you are tied to Google Maps. I have literally never in my life used Google Maps for live navigation. Currently I use Osmand on Android, but it's surely not the only competitor available.
OpenStreetMap data is generally not great around where I live. For a long time, my street just didn't have houses on it, which meant I couldn't navigate home directly, I'd have to give it a nearby...
OpenStreetMap data is generally not great around where I live. For a long time, my street just didn't have houses on it, which meant I couldn't navigate home directly, I'd have to give it a nearby intersection and ignore it at the end.
(yes, I know I can add stuff to it; I would like navigation, not another new hobby)
To my knowledge no other map provider alternative has live traffic data that factors in to travel time estimates, or notifies about upcoming accidents or speed traps (Waze doesn't count because...
To my knowledge no other map provider alternative has live traffic data that factors in to travel time estimates, or notifies about upcoming accidents or speed traps (Waze doesn't count because it's also Google. Also I'm not in the Apple ecosystem). Please tell me if I'm wrong though, I'd love to switch!
For Maps, if you’re just using for navigation and only have a few saved locations, there’s no tie in. If you’ve made extensive use of the features like lists and notes, starred/saved locations,...
For Maps, if you’re just using for navigation and only have a few saved locations, there’s no tie in. If you’ve made extensive use of the features like lists and notes, starred/saved locations, and (writing) reviews, then it can be much harder to leave. I don’t know if there’s an easy way to both export all of that and import it in whatever new tool you choose.
Edit: I forgot about the social bits, like shared lists. I know a lot of families that share lists in Maps, where locations can be added and edited by anyone allowed. Everyone would have to move and the new tool, which would need to support the same sharing functionality
I haven’t tried Obsidian so I don’t know which features you’re looking for but I am currently using Logseq. It’s “more” open-source than Obsidian if I understood correctly being that the only part...
I haven’t tried Obsidian so I don’t know which features you’re looking for but I am currently using Logseq.
It’s “more” open-source than Obsidian if I understood correctly being that the only part of it that you have to pay for is the sync.
I think technically you can setup sync yourself with git repos and stuff but for 5 euros per month, it seemed worth it personally to not have to bother.
To be honest, I haven’t really dug down to the details of ProtonMail but from what I’ve seen it is one euro per month more expensive, and that plan can’t handle multiple domain names, plus that...
To be honest, I haven’t really dug down to the details of ProtonMail but from what I’ve seen it is one euro per month more expensive, and that plan can’t handle multiple domain names, plus that the privacy settings kinda require a special type of app or setup? Don’t quote me on that, especially the last part because I didn’t really go deep on that. Maybe someone else can chime in.
I also use them. There's a special place in my heart for "we sell literally one thing, you know better than we do if that is a thing you need" service companies.
I also use them. There's a special place in my heart for "we sell literally one thing, you know better than we do if that is a thing you need" service companies.
On iOS, I recently tried Apple Maps again and have been pleasantly surprised. Google Maps has had some issues where it seems to have forgotten about a few pedestrian routes around me; it sends me...
On iOS, I recently tried Apple Maps again and have been pleasantly surprised.
Google Maps has had some issues where it seems to have forgotten about a few pedestrian routes around me; it sends me to a far bus stop that has the shortest road+sidewalk to the destination instead of the one that’s literally next to the building connected by a paved footpath. That throws off public transport options, sometimes completely, so I can’t just trust its suggestion and get off a stop earlier/later.
Apple Maps has come a long way in the many years since I wrote it off. Great, accurate public transport suggestions and info. Cleaner and more polished navigation UI than Google. Extra niceties like displaying current speed limit. It’s not faultless, of course; it sent me through a complex college campus once because it was technically shorter, and also possibly recently was no longer a through-route so I had to turn around. But overall, I’m starting to use Apple Maps over Google Maps when I can, definitely for public transport.
Very interesting stuff there, that you. I've tried to move away from Google in the past and always slip back into it, usually related to ease of use and it just being everywhere. Which is half the...
Very interesting stuff there, that you. I've tried to move away from Google in the past and always slip back into it, usually related to ease of use and it just being everywhere. Which is half the problem.
May I ask, when it comes to pros and cons .... what do you miss? What's just not there any more that you used to find really useful?
As for trying to move away from Google, I've accepted that I am not going to arrive to 0% dependency on them in the near future. As long as I'm moving in the good direction, I'm happy about it....
As for trying to move away from Google, I've accepted that I am not going to arrive to 0% dependency on them in the near future. As long as I'm moving in the good direction, I'm happy about it.
Now that I'm writing out the reply, I do remember one more criteria that I had in mind while choosing: which was indeed to have the services available on desktop and on mobile. All three of these are quite available.
As to things I miss, I had to really give it a think:
For mail, I do kinda miss having a good web interface.
For Kagi, sometimes new features have small bugs. Like for example, in Europe a comma is sometimes treated as a decimal point (for money I think) but their calculator doesn't take that into account. I know it's a really small nitpick but I'm really grasping straws here finding a flaw.
What I didn't mention is that they have an active Discord server and a quite public bug report forum that you can go to. Mentally for me, that means that I don't necessarily have to "put up" with any problem forever because they actually act on the most voted ones.
For photos, when I was in the phase of just having everything locally backed up, I did miss the ease of showing friends the photos when I'm out and about. And so I'm super excited to do that with Immich, having just installed it this weekend.
Fortunately, none of these are deal breakers for me and the pros mostly outweigh the cons (even including the "con" of having to spend money). I think the idea that I have some sort of agency and I can move from one service to another faster is something that I value more than these things I miss.
Does anyone have a recommendation for a map/navigation app on android? I don't want to use google maps for privacy reasons, but I don't know how to vet that any of the various apps using Open...
Does anyone have a recommendation for a map/navigation app on android? I don't want to use google maps for privacy reasons, but I don't know how to vet that any of the various apps using Open Street Map are any better. The permissions required for Waze seem excessive for a map.
Waze has been owned by Google for over a decade now. Waze isn't de-googling, it is just an illusion of choice. I have heard good things about OsmAnd but I haven't tried it for more than local...
Waze has been owned by Google for over a decade now. Waze isn't de-googling, it is just an illusion of choice.
I have heard good things about OsmAnd but I haven't tried it for more than local stuff yet.
I personally have pretty good experiences with Osmand as far as openstreetmap clients go. It adds a lot of added value as well. It can be a bit daunting at times due to the sheer amount of...
I personally have pretty good experiences with Osmand as far as openstreetmap clients go. It adds a lot of added value as well. It can be a bit daunting at times due to the sheer amount of options. Car navigation also isn't as smooth as Google Maps but it is serviceable.
Oh I wish we find a good answer for this. Maps is the most difficult one to let go of at the moment. I have tried OsmAnd but I can't really pinpoint why I have difficulty using it. Perhaps the...
Oh I wish we find a good answer for this. Maps is the most difficult one to let go of at the moment.
I have tried OsmAnd but I can't really pinpoint why I have difficulty using it. Perhaps the interface is unintuitive or just that I'm not used to it. Or that I'm just a dummy. XD And last time I checked, they also have premium plans now?
For me the number one deal breaker with OsmAnd is the completely ass backwards address input. Despite forcing myself to use it for a couple weeks, I just could not deal with the immediate urge to...
For me the number one deal breaker with OsmAnd is the completely ass backwards address input. Despite forcing myself to use it for a couple weeks, I just could not deal with the immediate urge to chuck my phone out the window and feared I may actually do so.
Maybe check out Organic Maps, it's more up my alley but can still be frustrating.
Some people (not me) do just that, which I find admirable. Time to recruit a whole bunch of friends! I have the advantage of Google Maps having missing numbers and wrong roads around these parts,...
Some people (not me) do just that, which I find admirable. Time to recruit a whole bunch of friends!
I have the advantage of Google Maps having missing numbers and wrong roads around these parts, so I'm not giving up as much.
(Google's big advantages are streetview, Waze traffic, pins and high quality aerial imagery.)
This may not be what you want but you can use a web view wrapper of google web maps. I tried other open source alternative, It wasn't good, not convenient.
This may not be what you want but you can use a web view wrapper of google web maps.
I tried other open source alternative, It wasn't good, not convenient.
How much should it be costing? Maybe I missed some cheaper services. Immich, being open-source was of course free. But yeah I made a personal decision to just get a beefier server to host Immich...
How much should it be costing? Maybe I missed some cheaper services.
Immich, being open-source was of course free.
But yeah I made a personal decision to just get a beefier server to host Immich plus keep the option of adding other open-source apps to share the resources with eventually. So the 15 euros I mentioned was Immich + the other stuff on my VPS.
You're using a beefier server for face recognition, but it should be a one-time operation, right? Once all your photos are uploaded and categorized, a smaller VPS should work as well.
You're using a beefier server for face recognition, but it should be a one-time operation, right? Once all your photos are uploaded and categorized, a smaller VPS should work as well.
It'd only run again on the newly added assets, which a smaller server should be able to handle. It's only the big initial import that really brings machines to their knees.
It'd only run again on the newly added assets, which a smaller server should be able to handle. It's only the big initial import that really brings machines to their knees.
I've been super happy with filerun as a replacement for Google Drive and picture storage. I use it with PhotoSync on Android to auto upload images. It's compatible with the next cloud desktop app...
I've been super happy with filerun as a replacement for Google Drive and picture storage. I use it with PhotoSync on Android to auto upload images. It's compatible with the next cloud desktop app for syncing files to my PCs. Set up my parents on it as well to fix overflowing iCloud accounts causing iOS stability issues. Previously used it for sharing raspberry pi disk images for some clients as a dirty way to distribute software updates so it can handle uploading and downloading large files thru the web UI. It also integrates with YOURLS for self hosted short links when sharing files.
I set it up in a docker container behind another container running nginx with let's encrypt for SSL and to have it on a sub domain.
I had previously used own cloud and then next cloud but found them to be bloated, and a massive pain to manage/maintain. Might be worth the squeeze if you want all those features but I wanted something simple, fast, and didn't require constant attention to work.
I had attempted to use sea file in the past and did enjoy it (seemed 1/2 between file run and next cloud in feature/complexity) but ran into docker ipv6 issues on unraid a while back that resulted in me dumping it.
To replace Google Drive, I use a combination of Syncthing + File Browser. Both on their subdomains, and Syncthing in a Docker container. File browser isn't in a container because I was having...
To replace Google Drive, I use a combination of Syncthing + File Browser. Both on their subdomains, and Syncthing in a Docker container. File browser isn't in a container because I was having issues to read/write files created by Syncthing.
@guissmo First of all, i applaud you for even trying to degoogle; as it is not easy nor fun! I'm on my own journey to degoogle, and early on, i saw how i have to be comfortable with some...
@guissmo First of all, i applaud you for even trying to degoogle; as it is not easy nor fun! I'm on my own journey to degoogle, and early on, i saw how i have to be comfortable with some compromise and a sort of quality of life balance as well (as well as quality of life balance for my family)...for now...Especially since it was not so common for people to seek out more private options years ago. It seems alot of this desire to seek out more privacy really started to pick up in attention only in the last decade or less...so easy, fair value, and solid options/services/providers aren't fully there yet for all aspects...But i think more and better options will eventually arrive. Here's hoping that alternative providers keep focusing on privacy as a primary/core feature, and not an after thought. (By the way, i'm a superfan of open source, so i lump in wanting either paid providers who champion open source, as well, as options for self-hosting in my desires too.)
Now, since really amazing or close-to-perfect safety and privacy is not so quick nor easy, i started to slightly pivot my goals. For example, i started to wonder if maybe i should seek out options to be more fault-tolerant and resilient (first, and then come back to privacy later on)...This is so that i am not dependent on a single provider for all my key needs...Then, over time i can replace each individual service provider with a better privacy offering, etc. I feel like I've been able to make much better progress in this vein of effort (focusing first on decentralization and then on privacy). Is it perfect sovereignty, or is it easy, or is it inexpensive? Not always! But, little by little, i'm making progress!
By the way, I'm using one of Zoho's paid plans for email and calendering. So far, they've been brilliant in quality/service, and the cost is quite low! For filesync and photo storing (and photo sharing), i use self-hosted nextcloud, but i also pay for family plan of Microsoift Office 365. I dislike/distrust Microsoft as much as dislike/distrust google...and do not use OneDrive myself much at all. But only keep this MS paid plan for my partner (more so because they are so attached to Word and Excel - again, finding a sort of balance in quality of life - in this case with my partner). Plus, I have been testing nextcloud to see if can eventually move to it full time. The good news is that nextcloud is at an amazing level of quality for the basics of file sync and basic photo storing/sharing! The not great news is that for non-tech users the office stuff needs a bit more baking...its not bad, but needs a little more love and attention. Also, for self-hosting, nextcloud still takes time to administer. That being said, if nextcloud tests keep looking good, then instead of my self-hosting nextcloud, maybe i pay a professional/dedicated provider to host nextcloud for my family...which is a thing! (I've heard of providers such as Hetzner, etc.) With email and file management (and office docs) already moved away from google, the only thing left is search and maps...Well, for search, i have defaulted to duckduck go for the last 2 or 3 years...so, the only thing that has been difficult is as others have already noted: maps. Ugh! I still retain my old gmail, but no one has that emailm address anymore...except for a handful of spammers. Also, i'm a rare person in that i don't spend much time on youtube...so the rare times i do use it, i am doing so with my old gmail account...and if there is content i wish to save, then i download it with yt-dlp...other than that i'm not using any other google services.
Anyway, best of luck on yuor degoogling journey, and kudos for sharing your journey!
Heads up, you misspelled "Eurotrip" as "Eurotip" at time of writing. How does the custom domain setup work for mailbox? Do they support forwarding e-mail through remote SMTP servers like gmail...
Heads up, you misspelled "Eurotrip" as "Eurotip" at time of writing.
How does the custom domain setup work for mailbox? Do they support forwarding e-mail through remote SMTP servers like gmail does, or do they require the entire domain name's MX records to point to them, like protonmail?
Hey, thanks for spotting the typo! I may not be completely qualified to answer the question but I think it's the latter. I have my DNS records set to point to them. I don't know if forwarding...
Hey, thanks for spotting the typo!
I may not be completely qualified to answer the question but I think it's the latter. I have my DNS records set to point to them. I don't know if forwarding e-mail through remote SMTP servers is an option for them. Best to ask their customer service if you're looking into it. They are generally responsive!
Hi, I finally spent the afternoon writing about the services I am using and that I would recommend.
Sharing this because it might be useful for some people and maybe give others ideas.
I'd like to hear about your journey, if you have tried other services as well.
I've been thinking about this for a while. It's hard on also super tied in. Including the phone service which has the best international plan available.
I also use Android so while other OS exists you lose a lot of convenience. But I'm wow interested in moving to graphenos where I can use Google services if needed but in a sandboxed environment
The fortunate thing about AOSP is that you can de-google your device while still using Android if you really need to. So it's a best of both worlds. Everything except maybe assistant can be taken off without rooting (you can disable that, but I'm not sure if it's ever truly disabled), but you will miss some key apps (e.g. banking) that pretty much exclusively distribute on google play store.
Haven't used Graphene, but I've heard good things about it. Though there is a little quirk that they indirectly lean on google for the hardware support.
I got a Pixel 7A last year and am running GrapheneOS. Sadly, due to work requirements, I'm usually on the profile with all the Google stuff.
What is this ASOP you speak of? DDG searches aren't helpful...
It's android in general. Android Open Source Project. The base nearly every shipped device starts with before adding in their own proprietary programs.
It wasn't a specific recommendation; more of a reminder that Android in its purest state has minimal Google interference, backed up by being able to verify the code itself. It personally gives me a bit of state of mind should I need to fully detach from Google one day that I don't need to search for an entirely new Phone OS. Unlike Microsoft and its moves with Windows 11/12.
While searching for how Immich implemented its facial recognition feature, I came across this reddit post where the main developer states that they use Insightface to train their model. This is problematic because Insightface explicitly states:
It is possible that they might run into issues as a consequence of that in the future given the non-research nature of the project. I have not used the product, but decided to share this finding here because I believe it can be problematic to attempt to create or share Google alternatives while at the same time not being careful with how said alternatives are implemented. It might be a good idea to contact the owner of the project to mention this.
We asked insightface for permission before using their models in Immich, see the note at https://github.com/immich-app/immich/blob/main/machine-learning/README.md#license-and-use-restrictions.
(I'm one of the Immich core team members)
Oh cool. I didn’t know that. So they might eventually get forced needing to change the model in the future, then?
I honestly have no idea because it is not clear to me what they meant by "model" in this context. It looks like the problem has to do with whether they used Insightface's training data. Based on the reddit comment it sounds to me like they did, which goes against Insightface's license. They should be able to use the same library as long as they bring their own testing data, according to the license.
I attempted to de-google when I first started learning Linux and setting up my proxmox server. I did everything I could and then eventually found I don't have the time to keep up with everything I should. Google drive, maps, and Gmail are the only Google products I use still, unfortunately. They really have us trapped it feels like.
I got rid of using Google as search and switched to duck duck go. I have old Gmail accounts I simply cannot get rid of due to the fact I've had them forever and they're linked to so many accounts. I have my own domain email through protonmail though, and I'm using photoprism as a self hosted photo server, audiobookshelf for audiobooks, and Plex for media.
I set up nextcloud but found it didn't have the same capabilities as Google drive did for me, and everyone always says nextcloud is a hacking target and I just can't risk my dumbass messing it up.
I tried to stay away from obsidian for notes because I wanted it to be self hosted but I finally caved and have it linked to my icloud and it's really smooth.
The services you still use are pretty easy to replace, just depends on your criteria. There are dozens of high quality email providers out there.
Is the service being free part of your criteria?
From a technical point of view you are right. From a practical point of view migrating away from Gmail can be a bit of a task. I speak from personal experience here. I have owned my Gmail account since 2005, which basically means that over the past 20 years a lot of things have been tied to that account.
I have been using mailbox.org with my own domain for a while now. But I still get mails on my Gmail account that are fairly important, or at least from senders where it is important they can reach me. On receiving these mails, I do take care to contact the sender or login to whatever service to change the address. But it can take a while.
So yeah, not impossible to switch, but I can certainly see it being a daunting task for people that have had their Gmail account for a while.
I’m in this situation. I’d like to take the opportunity that switching emails provides in doing a big spring clean and just deleting old accounts and logins that I no longer use, but it’s so daunting. I briefly held the naive idea that “if I haven’t used in the last few years then I won’t need it at all, right?” But reality pretty quickly showed me that actually, just in this last year, I’ve accessed long-dormant accounts from nearly a decade ago. Just because I hadn’t needed it in the interim doesn’t mean I can just yeet everything older than a few years.
I suspect once I’m done with the full email overhaul, I’ll be going back to check my old email accounts possibly forever, but having most stuff away from google services is still leaps and bounds ahead of using them as my main email provider, from the privacy perspective.
I'm curious how or why you are tied to Google Maps. I have literally never in my life used Google Maps for live navigation. Currently I use Osmand on Android, but it's surely not the only competitor available.
And what features do you get out of Google Drive?
OpenStreetMap data is generally not great around where I live. For a long time, my street just didn't have houses on it, which meant I couldn't navigate home directly, I'd have to give it a nearby intersection and ignore it at the end.
(yes, I know I can add stuff to it; I would like navigation, not another new hobby)
To my knowledge no other map provider alternative has live traffic data that factors in to travel time estimates, or notifies about upcoming accidents or speed traps (Waze doesn't count because it's also Google. Also I'm not in the Apple ecosystem). Please tell me if I'm wrong though, I'd love to switch!
For Maps, if you’re just using for navigation and only have a few saved locations, there’s no tie in. If you’ve made extensive use of the features like lists and notes, starred/saved locations, and (writing) reviews, then it can be much harder to leave. I don’t know if there’s an easy way to both export all of that and import it in whatever new tool you choose.
Edit: I forgot about the social bits, like shared lists. I know a lot of families that share lists in Maps, where locations can be added and edited by anyone allowed. Everyone would have to move and the new tool, which would need to support the same sharing functionality
I haven’t tried Obsidian so I don’t know which features you’re looking for but I am currently using Logseq.
It’s “more” open-source than Obsidian if I understood correctly being that the only part of it that you have to pay for is the sync.
I think technically you can setup sync yourself with git repos and stuff but for 5 euros per month, it seemed worth it personally to not have to bother.
Why did you rule out protonmail?
To be honest, I haven’t really dug down to the details of ProtonMail but from what I’ve seen it is one euro per month more expensive, and that plan can’t handle multiple domain names, plus that the privacy settings kinda require a special type of app or setup? Don’t quote me on that, especially the last part because I didn’t really go deep on that. Maybe someone else can chime in.
Suggesting PurelyMail for a Gmail replacement; $10 a year with custom domain support, I use it and I love it.
I also use them. There's a special place in my heart for "we sell literally one thing, you know better than we do if that is a thing you need" service companies.
On iOS, I recently tried Apple Maps again and have been pleasantly surprised.
Google Maps has had some issues where it seems to have forgotten about a few pedestrian routes around me; it sends me to a far bus stop that has the shortest road+sidewalk to the destination instead of the one that’s literally next to the building connected by a paved footpath. That throws off public transport options, sometimes completely, so I can’t just trust its suggestion and get off a stop earlier/later.
Apple Maps has come a long way in the many years since I wrote it off. Great, accurate public transport suggestions and info. Cleaner and more polished navigation UI than Google. Extra niceties like displaying current speed limit. It’s not faultless, of course; it sent me through a complex college campus once because it was technically shorter, and also possibly recently was no longer a through-route so I had to turn around. But overall, I’m starting to use Apple Maps over Google Maps when I can, definitely for public transport.
Very interesting stuff there, that you. I've tried to move away from Google in the past and always slip back into it, usually related to ease of use and it just being everywhere. Which is half the problem.
May I ask, when it comes to pros and cons .... what do you miss? What's just not there any more that you used to find really useful?
As for trying to move away from Google, I've accepted that I am not going to arrive to 0% dependency on them in the near future. As long as I'm moving in the good direction, I'm happy about it.
Now that I'm writing out the reply, I do remember one more criteria that I had in mind while choosing: which was indeed to have the services available on desktop and on mobile. All three of these are quite available.
As to things I miss, I had to really give it a think:
For mail, I do kinda miss having a good web interface.
For Kagi, sometimes new features have small bugs. Like for example, in Europe a comma is sometimes treated as a decimal point (for money I think) but their calculator doesn't take that into account. I know it's a really small nitpick but I'm really grasping straws here finding a flaw.
What I didn't mention is that they have an active Discord server and a quite public bug report forum that you can go to. Mentally for me, that means that I don't necessarily have to "put up" with any problem forever because they actually act on the most voted ones.
For photos, when I was in the phase of just having everything locally backed up, I did miss the ease of showing friends the photos when I'm out and about. And so I'm super excited to do that with Immich, having just installed it this weekend.
Fortunately, none of these are deal breakers for me and the pros mostly outweigh the cons (even including the "con" of having to spend money). I think the idea that I have some sort of agency and I can move from one service to another faster is something that I value more than these things I miss.
Does anyone have a recommendation for a map/navigation app on android? I don't want to use google maps for privacy reasons, but I don't know how to vet that any of the various apps using Open Street Map are any better. The permissions required for Waze seem excessive for a map.
Waze has been owned by Google for over a decade now. Waze isn't de-googling, it is just an illusion of choice.
I have heard good things about OsmAnd but I haven't tried it for more than local stuff yet.
Organic Maps is pretty amazing. I love it.
I personally have pretty good experiences with Osmand as far as openstreetmap clients go. It adds a lot of added value as well. It can be a bit daunting at times due to the sheer amount of options. Car navigation also isn't as smooth as Google Maps but it is serviceable.
Oh I wish we find a good answer for this. Maps is the most difficult one to let go of at the moment.
I have tried OsmAnd but I can't really pinpoint why I have difficulty using it. Perhaps the interface is unintuitive or just that I'm not used to it. Or that I'm just a dummy. XD And last time I checked, they also have premium plans now?
For me the number one deal breaker with OsmAnd is the completely ass backwards address input. Despite forcing myself to use it for a couple weeks, I just could not deal with the immediate urge to chuck my phone out the window and feared I may actually do so.
Maybe check out Organic Maps, it's more up my alley but can still be frustrating.
Open street maps severely lacks address numbers were I live, making it impossible to use.
I did add some, but I can't do all my city alone.
Some people (not me) do just that, which I find admirable. Time to recruit a whole bunch of friends!
I have the advantage of Google Maps having missing numbers and wrong roads around these parts, so I'm not giving up as much.
(Google's big advantages are streetview, Waze traffic, pins and high quality aerial imagery.)
I like doing it to kill some time, but it gets tiresome
This may not be what you want but you can use a web view wrapper of google web maps.
I tried other open source alternative, It wasn't good, not convenient.
Why did Immich end up costing so much?
How much should it be costing? Maybe I missed some cheaper services.
Immich, being open-source was of course free.
But yeah I made a personal decision to just get a beefier server to host Immich plus keep the option of adding other open-source apps to share the resources with eventually. So the 15 euros I mentioned was Immich + the other stuff on my VPS.
I was asking from a position of no self-hosting background knowledge, not critiquing your spend. Thanks, and nice write-up.
Oh no worries. I legit thought that maybe you knew of a cheaper solution. 😅
Thanks for the read.
You're using a beefier server for face recognition, but it should be a one-time operation, right? Once all your photos are uploaded and categorized, a smaller VPS should work as well.
Fair enough. But then every time I add new photos and faces, it would need to run it again?
It'd only run again on the newly added assets, which a smaller server should be able to handle. It's only the big initial import that really brings machines to their knees.
Interesting! Wish I’d had known that before. Thanks for explaining.
I've been super happy with filerun as a replacement for Google Drive and picture storage. I use it with PhotoSync on Android to auto upload images. It's compatible with the next cloud desktop app for syncing files to my PCs. Set up my parents on it as well to fix overflowing iCloud accounts causing iOS stability issues. Previously used it for sharing raspberry pi disk images for some clients as a dirty way to distribute software updates so it can handle uploading and downloading large files thru the web UI. It also integrates with YOURLS for self hosted short links when sharing files.
I set it up in a docker container behind another container running nginx with let's encrypt for SSL and to have it on a sub domain.
I had previously used own cloud and then next cloud but found them to be bloated, and a massive pain to manage/maintain. Might be worth the squeeze if you want all those features but I wanted something simple, fast, and didn't require constant attention to work.
I had attempted to use sea file in the past and did enjoy it (seemed 1/2 between file run and next cloud in feature/complexity) but ran into docker ipv6 issues on unraid a while back that resulted in me dumping it.
To replace Google Drive, I use a combination of Syncthing + File Browser. Both on their subdomains, and Syncthing in a Docker container. File browser isn't in a container because I was having issues to read/write files created by Syncthing.
@guissmo First of all, i applaud you for even trying to degoogle; as it is not easy nor fun! I'm on my own journey to degoogle, and early on, i saw how i have to be comfortable with some compromise and a sort of quality of life balance as well (as well as quality of life balance for my family)...for now...Especially since it was not so common for people to seek out more private options years ago. It seems alot of this desire to seek out more privacy really started to pick up in attention only in the last decade or less...so easy, fair value, and solid options/services/providers aren't fully there yet for all aspects...But i think more and better options will eventually arrive. Here's hoping that alternative providers keep focusing on privacy as a primary/core feature, and not an after thought. (By the way, i'm a superfan of open source, so i lump in wanting either paid providers who champion open source, as well, as options for self-hosting in my desires too.)
Now, since really amazing or close-to-perfect safety and privacy is not so quick nor easy, i started to slightly pivot my goals. For example, i started to wonder if maybe i should seek out options to be more fault-tolerant and resilient (first, and then come back to privacy later on)...This is so that i am not dependent on a single provider for all my key needs...Then, over time i can replace each individual service provider with a better privacy offering, etc. I feel like I've been able to make much better progress in this vein of effort (focusing first on decentralization and then on privacy). Is it perfect sovereignty, or is it easy, or is it inexpensive? Not always! But, little by little, i'm making progress!
By the way, I'm using one of Zoho's paid plans for email and calendering. So far, they've been brilliant in quality/service, and the cost is quite low! For filesync and photo storing (and photo sharing), i use self-hosted nextcloud, but i also pay for family plan of Microsoift Office 365. I dislike/distrust Microsoft as much as dislike/distrust google...and do not use OneDrive myself much at all. But only keep this MS paid plan for my partner (more so because they are so attached to Word and Excel - again, finding a sort of balance in quality of life - in this case with my partner). Plus, I have been testing nextcloud to see if can eventually move to it full time. The good news is that nextcloud is at an amazing level of quality for the basics of file sync and basic photo storing/sharing! The not great news is that for non-tech users the office stuff needs a bit more baking...its not bad, but needs a little more love and attention. Also, for self-hosting, nextcloud still takes time to administer. That being said, if nextcloud tests keep looking good, then instead of my self-hosting nextcloud, maybe i pay a professional/dedicated provider to host nextcloud for my family...which is a thing! (I've heard of providers such as Hetzner, etc.) With email and file management (and office docs) already moved away from google, the only thing left is search and maps...Well, for search, i have defaulted to duckduck go for the last 2 or 3 years...so, the only thing that has been difficult is as others have already noted: maps. Ugh! I still retain my old gmail, but no one has that emailm address anymore...except for a handful of spammers. Also, i'm a rare person in that i don't spend much time on youtube...so the rare times i do use it, i am doing so with my old gmail account...and if there is content i wish to save, then i download it with yt-dlp...other than that i'm not using any other google services.
Anyway, best of luck on yuor degoogling journey, and kudos for sharing your journey!
Heads up, you misspelled "Eurotrip" as "Eurotip" at time of writing.
How does the custom domain setup work for mailbox? Do they support forwarding e-mail through remote SMTP servers like gmail does, or do they require the entire domain name's MX records to point to them, like protonmail?
Hey, thanks for spotting the typo!
I may not be completely qualified to answer the question but I think it's the latter. I have my DNS records set to point to them. I don't know if forwarding e-mail through remote SMTP servers is an option for them. Best to ask their customer service if you're looking into it. They are generally responsive!
Consciously moving away from services with obscured price required is worth doing but sadly still relevant is the satirical onion video from 2009.
The last line got me. “If you have questions… type them in an email to a friend and Google will get back to you in less than 24 hours.”