61 votes

A freeze dryer is not a reasonable purchase

40 comments

  1. [2]
    Interesting
    Link
    And yet, my mother has two. God help her. Making a note to watch this tomorrow and leave a real comment

    And yet, my mother has two. God help her.

    Making a note to watch this tomorrow and leave a real comment

    21 votes
    1. chocobean
      Link Parent
      Please tell us her favourite uses? Winners, losers, unexpected?

      Please tell us her favourite uses? Winners, losers, unexpected?

      11 votes
  2. [10]
    Interesting
    Link
    So... Live response as I watch. He is absolutely, totally right that watching freeze drying videos will completely wreck your YouTube recommendations. I ended up turning off video history to get...

    So... Live response as I watch.

    He is absolutely, totally right that watching freeze drying videos will completely wreck your YouTube recommendations. I ended up turning off video history to get rid of all the nonsense, between that and one or two of my other interests.

    The reason that Harvest Right doesn't just let the water go into the pump is that it's bad for the pump's lifespan. The pump will actually turn off if it detects too much moisture. That's somewhere deep in their website.

    Watching him bite into the cheeseburger was hysterical. The steamed hams was even better.

    From watching all those videos that wrecked my YouTube algorithm, the method to use to determine how much water you need to add back to the freeze dried product is to weigh the trays before and after drying. The change in weight is the water you need to add back.

    Off topic, but you can find powdered whole milk at Walmart. I have the same problem as him and that's where I buy it.

    You can do some fatty gels by blending them with water and an emulsifier.

    The problem he had with fruit rotting is that the method Harvest Right uses to tell if the food is done (if it's detecting humidity in the vaccum) isn't perfect. You can add extra dry time to resolve that. The perfectionist method is to keep taking the trays out weigh them repeatedly (every two hours or so), and only stop when the trays stop losing moisture.

    The problem with the oreos melting could be resolved by lowering the drying temperature, but it will make the process take even longer

    If he could find trays that are a similar size, he could resolve his problem with freezing liquid by doing it in the freezer with plastic wrap underneath. Then, just pop the pre-frozen block on to the harvest right tray.

    I like freeze dried yogurt =( I was planning on trying my mom's home fermented pickles when I get a chance. I wonder if I'll disagree on that too. He mentioned disliking the carrots, and I know my mom has done roasted squash and liked it.

    Stuff with membranes like oranges and grapes is particularly hard.

    Freeze dried caramelized onions sounds amazing.

    He didn't do marshmallows, but I really like them freeze dried.

    It's important to let the freezer pre chill, yeah.

    I'll watch the last 20 minutes with his conclusion later.

    14 votes
    1. [8]
      Akir
      Link Parent
      I find he can be a bit frustrating to watch sometimes as he goes through his experimentations to understand how things work instead of being an authoritative source on them. This one was...

      I find he can be a bit frustrating to watch sometimes as he goes through his experimentations to understand how things work instead of being an authoritative source on them. This one was particularly annoying to me because he saw stuff that didn’t work and didn’t go back when there are variables that he didn’t check on. I was actually pretty surprised that he didn’t mention that the reason why some of his things were puffing up - the air inside of them - but maybe I just missed them. But perhaps most annoying is how he mainly covered it as a tool for preservation rather than a way to get interesting and useful ingredients. Freeze dried berries, for instance, are great because you can stick them in with your dry oatmeal and make a healthier version of the single-serve sachets you can get at the supermarket. The meat can be cut into small cubes to make more palatable for use in stews.

      5 votes
      1. [3]
        sparksbet
        Link Parent
        I think his arguments against buying the machine due to its cost and inconvenience are only stronger if you use it less often just to get interesting ingredients. Focusing on a prepper was...

        I think his arguments against buying the machine due to its cost and inconvenience are only stronger if you use it less often just to get interesting ingredients. Focusing on a prepper was essentially him steel-manning the value-for-money of the machine, since someone using a freeze drier to preserve a lot of food is going to get a lot more use out of it than someone who just likes freeze dried fruit sometimes.

        13 votes
        1. [2]
          Akir
          Link Parent
          I think a much better use case scenario is actually a restaurant serving haute cuisine. The industrial design suggests to me that it is meant as a commercial device, especially with the separate...

          I think a much better use case scenario is actually a restaurant serving haute cuisine. The industrial design suggests to me that it is meant as a commercial device, especially with the separate pump and requirement for a drain instead of a removable tank.

          3 votes
          1. sparksbet
            Link Parent
            oh absolutely, I think the math is much different in a commercial setting. It was pretty clear from the video, to me, that he was describing it as not a reasonable purchase for a home consumer....

            oh absolutely, I think the math is much different in a commercial setting. It was pretty clear from the video, to me, that he was describing it as not a reasonable purchase for a home consumer. Clearly these are being marketed to home consumers, after all.

            6 votes
      2. [4]
        cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Yeah, I love Technology Connections, but this video was pretty frustrating for me too, since I used to consume a fair amount of prepper, MRE, and freeze-dryer related content on YouTube (shoutout...

        Yeah, I love Technology Connections, but this video was pretty frustrating for me too, since I used to consume a fair amount of prepper, MRE, and freeze-dryer related content on YouTube (shoutout to Steve1989MREInfo and EpicenterBryan), even though I am neither a prepper nor have a freeze dryer (and never will)... I just find the freeze drying process interesting, and that lifestyle kind of morbidly fascinating.

        And yeah, he was basically doing everything wrong, and so clearly didn't look for advice anywhere beforehand. He didn't slice things nearly thin enough, then complained about them taking too long, and not being properly freeze dried. For fruits with skin (which are notoriously hard to freeze dry) he just poked some holes in them which is entirely inadequate (unless you have a Roller Berry or similar device), instead of removing the skin first, or slicing them into multiple thin slices using a mandolin. He even left the plastic packaging on a bunch of those ice-cream sandwiches, FFS! :P

        p.s. He is not wrong in warning people to be very careful going down that rabbithole though. There are a lot of hardcore anti-government, right-wing conspiracy nuts on YouTube which you will likely encounter when searching out or being recommended more of that kind of content. The two I mentioned are exceptions to the rule though, which is one of the reasons I like them so much.

        p.p.s. Another use case that I'm surprised he didn't mention is hiking. A LOT of hardcore thru-hikers (who I also watch on YouTube) use freeze dryers as a way to make homemade, calorie-dense, ultra-light meals for their long-distance hikes, instead of having to buy the super expensive ones sold at hiking outfitters.

        p.p.p.s. I can't believe he didn't try bananas, blueberries, raspberries, dates, or figs! They're supposedly all amazing fruits for freeze drying.

        7 votes
        1. [3]
          lou
          Link Parent
          Wow. I kinda want him to see this comment now. It seems that he lowered his standards for this video. I wouldn't really care if it was any other channel, but I think he would probably post a...

          Wow. I kinda want him to see this comment now. It seems that he lowered his standards for this video. I wouldn't really care if it was any other channel, but I think he would probably post a retraction given his history of accuracy.

          3 votes
          1. cfabbro
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            Eh, I don't think it was that bad as far as general overviews for a layman audience goes. And even though I think freeze dryers are pretty cool, he's not wrong that for the vast vast vast...

            Eh, I don't think it was that bad as far as general overviews for a layman audience goes. And even though I think freeze dryers are pretty cool, he's not wrong that for the vast vast vast marjority of consumers they're going to be a total waste of money and time. So I also wouldn't say a retraction is necessary.

            But yeah, as someone who has seen lots of cool shit that can be done with freeze dryers, it was disappointing to see him experimenting with one without taking the time to do some research first, when he usually does the opposite. And there are lots of resources out there for learning how to properly freeze dry all sorts of food already, including whole meals like stews and rice dishes, and recommendations for what type of food works best. There are even whole books dedicated to learning how to properly freeze dry (E.g.). But he didn't seem to look at any of those resources before making this video... which I think definitely tainted his opinion on freeze drying since he failed so much due to his own inexperience.

            EpicenterBryan used to do a lot of experimenting, taste, and rehydration testing too, with all sorts of weird foods, and had similarly mixed results sometimes too. But he was often intentionally pushing the boundaries with his "Will it Freeze Dry?" videos, so failure was kind of expected. And when he was following standard practices (like when he dried 40lbs of chicken chunks, or 50lbs of blueberries) he had pretty consistent success. But unlike TC, Bryan has 10+ freeze dryers from different brands with dozens of different vacuum pumps (which he also tests), and years of experience using them all, since he runs an "Emergency Preparedness" company called TheEpicenter (hence his channel name) that sells that sort of stuff.

            7 votes
          2. Akir
            Link Parent
            There are almost certainly hundreds of comments like this on the video somewhere. He's pretty good at following up on them, so I'm betting we'll see a follow-up video at some point.

            There are almost certainly hundreds of comments like this on the video somewhere. He's pretty good at following up on them, so I'm betting we'll see a follow-up video at some point.

            3 votes
  3. [9]
    Cyder1
    Link
    As someone who loves freeze dried fruit, if I had enough space to let it run quietly 24/7, I don't know if I could justify getting it. It's a neat hobby though!

    As someone who loves freeze dried fruit, if I had enough space to let it run quietly 24/7, I don't know if I could justify getting it.

    It's a neat hobby though!

    13 votes
    1. [2]
      nacho
      Link Parent
      I have a regular fruit dryer. That's more than good enough for preserving fruit when there's that half a pineapple, or similar that'll get spoilt if I don't have a means of preserving. It's not...

      I have a regular fruit dryer. That's more than good enough for preserving fruit when there's that half a pineapple, or similar that'll get spoilt if I don't have a means of preserving.

      It's not exactly the same taste, and definitely not a hobby the same way freeze drying is!

      9 votes
      1. chocobean
        Link Parent
        Regular drying makes fruit leathers, though, and the flavours are far more muted.

        Regular drying makes fruit leathers, though, and the flavours are far more muted.

        4 votes
    2. [6]
      chocobean
      Link Parent
      One could always sell packs of freeze dried fruit at a farmers market I would imagine? I also love freeze dried fruit. My all time favorites are mangosteen and durian. Lychee is also a good...

      One could always sell packs of freeze dried fruit at a farmers market I would imagine? I also love freeze dried fruit. My all time favorites are mangosteen and durian. Lychee is also a good candidate because of the extremely short shelf life and seasonality of the fruit.

      If I had a neighbour who time shares their machine I would super love that.

      What are your favorites?

      4 votes
      1. [3]
        Promonk
        Link Parent
        Freeze-drying durian in someone else's machine should really be classified as some kind of crime against humanity. Maybe there's a subsection of the Geneva Protocols that can be adapted to suit.

        My all time favorites are mangosteen and durian.

        If I had a neighbour who time shares their machine I would super love that.

        Freeze-drying durian in someone else's machine should really be classified as some kind of crime against humanity. Maybe there's a subsection of the Geneva Protocols that can be adapted to suit.

        17 votes
        1. [2]
          chocobean
          Link Parent
          What if it's a fellow durian fan? Free durian aroma for days! Yum yum yum. The only crime is not to share at least a bit afterwards

          What if it's a fellow durian fan? Free durian aroma for days! Yum yum yum. The only crime is not to share at least a bit afterwards

          3 votes
          1. Promonk
            Link Parent
            Never have I encountered a thing that screamed "do not eat me" quite as loudly as durian. At least not a living thing. Most things that immediately and viscerally offensive are already dead. And...

            Never have I encountered a thing that screamed "do not eat me" quite as loudly as durian. At least not a living thing. Most things that immediately and viscerally offensive are already dead.

            And yet, I totally understand the appeal. I don't share in it, but I understand it.

            If drying durian smell turns you on, more power to you. I'd just be expecting a wellness check from the police if I were you.

            5 votes
      2. [2]
        tanglisha
        Link Parent
        How strong is the durian smell when you freeze dry it?

        How strong is the durian smell when you freeze dry it?

        8 votes
        1. chocobean
          Link Parent
          Oh they still smell like durian :) but maybe the scent doesn't travel as readily

          Oh they still smell like durian :) but maybe the scent doesn't travel as readily

          1 vote
  4. [4]
    fefellama
    Link
    That shot of ice NOT-melting at around 12:05 was cool as hell. Super cool video, thanks for sharing!

    That shot of ice NOT-melting at around 12:05 was cool as hell.

    Super cool video, thanks for sharing!

    10 votes
    1. [3]
      Greg
      Link Parent
      Something about the dust left behind made me feel oddly uneasy. Like, I know water has a bunch of minerals in it, I'm perfectly used to seeing the marks left on the shower screen or on a pot left...

      Something about the dust left behind made me feel oddly uneasy. Like, I know water has a bunch of minerals in it, I'm perfectly used to seeing the marks left on the shower screen or on a pot left to boil for too long, but the residue being left in a dry powdery form rather than a (still dry!) liquid pattern apparently sets off my brain complaining to me about water not feeling like powder.

      Which, in fairness, was probably a small echo of the much greater "wrongness" he was experiencing when trying a lot of the foods!

      8 votes
      1. chocobean
        Link Parent
        Watching 55°C ice not melt did something funny to my brain.

        oddly uneasy

        Watching 55°C ice not melt did something funny to my brain.

        6 votes
      2. sparksbet
        Link Parent
        You would hate the water where I live lol. It's so hard it's difficult not to think about how water's got powder in it. I think there's less calcium in a glass of milk!

        You would hate the water where I live lol. It's so hard it's difficult not to think about how water's got powder in it. I think there's less calcium in a glass of milk!

        2 votes
  5. [2]
    trobertson
    Link
    For someone else using a freeze dryer, here's SteveMRE1989 making (and enjoying!) a freeze dried homemade Thanksgiving MRE. https://youtu.be/9183p7iJ5E0

    For someone else using a freeze dryer, here's SteveMRE1989 making (and enjoying!) a freeze dried homemade Thanksgiving MRE.

    https://youtu.be/9183p7iJ5E0

    8 votes
    1. lou
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Yeah but that's in the context of military rations :P That dude will eat anything.

      Yeah but that's in the context of military rations :P

      That dude will eat anything.

      7 votes
  6. [2]
    tanglisha
    Link
    Anyone about to watch this, turn on closed captioning. He clearly had some fun with it.

    Anyone about to watch this, turn on closed captioning. He clearly had some fun with it.

    6 votes
    1. sparksbet
      Link Parent
      he strikes a great balance of having genuinely good, useful captions but imbuing a bit of personality in them.

      he strikes a great balance of having genuinely good, useful captions but imbuing a bit of personality in them.

      3 votes
  7. [10]
    chocobean
    Link
    @interesting I was thinking of you the whole hour I watched this :)

    @interesting I was thinking of you the whole hour I watched this :)

    3 votes
    1. [9]
      chocobean
      Link Parent
      I love this channel: the videos are always super high quality and in depth, and this is no exception. However, some of the food related choices he made are really baffling to me. How come he...

      I love this channel: the videos are always super high quality and in depth, and this is no exception.

      However, some of the food related choices he made are really baffling to me. How come he didn't try actual cuts of meat instead of composite meat like ham and burger? No seafood samples? Rehydrating using broth is a tried and true method of achieving max flavours. Steaming: it looks like he just left it on full power cook instead of gentle steaming.... And a lot of the samples look really thickly sliced. Think jerky thickness. And his points about how much prep and work it takes is kind of funny :) how much work does he think is involved with traditional food preservation tasks like pickling, canning, smoking and sun drying?

      All in all I have to agree with his findings: this is high end lab territory, not home chef or weekend patissier level, and preppers are better off buying MREs instead of using time and money and energy for questionable shelf life.

      But it does feel like he isn't using the device to its potential in a modernist cuisine type of way: powdering fruits to hypermax flavour without adding additional moisture to pastries; using extremely thin wafers as garnish; reconstituting at the table using piping hot broth or piping hot sauces/curries; ready to eat ramen with authentic tonkotsu broth...etc

      I greatly look forward to the end of the fad when I can pick up one for ~$500.

      7 votes
      1. Interesting
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I think my mom paid $1500 for her first one on Facebook marketplace, working. Less for the second one, but that one came broken and my stepfather fixed it. I am somewhat doubtful they'll hit $500....

        I think my mom paid $1500 for her first one on Facebook marketplace, working. Less for the second one, but that one came broken and my stepfather fixed it.

        I am somewhat doubtful they'll hit $500. There are too many crazy preppers who can afford it as it gets cheaper, and what they do excel at is making stews and the like that you can throw in a bag to reconstitute later, which is exactly what a prepper wants.

        4 votes
      2. [7]
        tanglisha
        Link Parent
        I did serious canning for the first time this year and you are not kidding. It was fun, but also exhausting and I'm glad it's a seasonal thing. I still have some cucumbers that I think are...

        And his points about how much prep and work it takes is kind of funny :) how much work does he think is involved with traditional food preservation tasks like pickling, canning, smoking and sun drying?

        I did serious canning for the first time this year and you are not kidding. It was fun, but also exhausting and I'm glad it's a seasonal thing. I still have some cucumbers that I think are probably destined for compost.

        3 votes
        1. [4]
          Interesting
          Link Parent
          If you have some fridge space, fermented pickles are really easy with those cucumbers. https://www.feastingathome.com/fermented-pickles/ You don't need to use a glass jar, or an actual...

          If you have some fridge space, fermented pickles are really easy with those cucumbers.

          https://www.feastingathome.com/fermented-pickles/

          You don't need to use a glass jar, or an actual fermentation weight. My mom has made them in plastic containers and I've used plastic wrap to make sure all the cucumber stays under the brine. You do need to burp the container regularly though.

          If they're too big, they'll pickle just fine cut into big pieces

          3 votes
          1. tanglisha
            Link Parent
            I'll give that a try. Thank you!

            I'll give that a try. Thank you!

            1 vote
          2. [2]
            chocobean
            Link Parent
            Do they taste the same as regular pickles or more like kimchi cucumberss?

            Do they taste the same as regular pickles or more like kimchi cucumberss?

            1. Interesting
              Link Parent
              I think of fermented pickles as regular pickles, and think vinegar pickles are gross, lol. They're not nearly as sour, and a little fizzy. Vinegar pickles also often have sugar added, which I also...

              I think of fermented pickles as regular pickles, and think vinegar pickles are gross, lol.

              They're not nearly as sour, and a little fizzy. Vinegar pickles also often have sugar added, which I also think is gross. Flavor otherwise will depend on the seasoning you use. I always add dill, a little garlic, and a little pickling spice to the bottom of the jar (I use this: https://www.amazon.com/PICKLING-FRESHLY-PACKED-spices-seasonings/dp/B000N8MPUW? )

              2 votes
        2. [2]
          Akir
          Link Parent
          These comments are honestly making me feel a little bit crazy. The work involved with freeze drying didn't actually seem that difficult, and having done my first canning job about two months ago,...

          These comments are honestly making me feel a little bit crazy. The work involved with freeze drying didn't actually seem that difficult, and having done my first canning job about two months ago, that wasn't hard either. They take a lot of time, but they aren't actually labor-intensive. It's only really hard if you consider that you could just buy food already processed that way instead of doing it yourself. Am I missing something?

          (I am aware that some pickles are fairly labor-intensive, especially something multi-step like kimchi, but other things are fairly easy to deal with I feel).

          2 votes
          1. sparksbet
            Link Parent
            I think canning's difficulty varies a lot based on the specifics of what you're canning, what method you're using, and how high your standards for food safety are. Pickling is the same way. I...

            I think canning's difficulty varies a lot based on the specifics of what you're canning, what method you're using, and how high your standards for food safety are. Pickling is the same way.

            I haven't ever tried freeze-drying so I don't have anyone other than him to go off of there. I can absolutely see how the liquids (which would be the most interesting application for me personally) would be wayyy too annoying due to the particulars of the machine. I'd love to be able to make my own instant coffee but I'd definitely frustrate myself dealing with those trays full of coffee.

            I also think he was definitely weighing freeze drying against freezing as a preservation method, and it's obviously hard to be lower effort than tossing something in a freezer.

            4 votes
  8. Fiachra
    Link
    Re: his comment about the sides being cooled even while the trays are heated because the moisture is 'attracted to coldness': I think what's happening there is that the molecules of air, including...

    Re: his comment about the sides being cooled even while the trays are heated because the moisture is 'attracted to coldness': I think what's happening there is that the molecules of air, including the moisture, by following a random trajectory as they do, hit the sides of the chamber many times before they happen to find the vent pulling the air out (they don't just 'know' what direction the vent is). Having the sides be a site for condensation will pull moisture out of the air much faster, because now every side of the chamber draws moisture instead of just that one vent. Big increase in surface area.

    3 votes