My Leopold FC900R broke - Recommendation request
Hi Tildes!
My Leopold FC900R mechanical keyboard had a sudden thirst for a full cup of joe, which rendered the keyboard mostly unusable, even after drying for days.
This has been my favourite keyboard of all time, it looks and types the same as the day I got it, and I'm actually quite miffed it broke!
So Tildes, could you help me out? What would be a good replacement?
For people that do not know Leopolds lineup specifically, they're pretty much no frills high end mechanical keyboard. The only similar keyboard I've found so far is the Leopold FC900RBTS, but it's quite expensive and the colours it comes in aren't entirely my taste. Although I'm not opposed to putting down that kind of money, I'm wondering if there's no alternative available that matches my requirements at a slightly lower pricepoint.
So here's what I'm looking for:
- Double Shot PBT Keycaps, that's a must have.
- Fullsize keyboard. I still use my numpad!
- Wired connection. The Leopold FC900RBTS has both wired and wireless, that's fine too, but at it's core it must be wired.
- Relatively small sized frame, the frame on the Leopold is quite economically built. It's keys on a board and that makes it rather small even at full size.
- I think the FC900R came with MX Cherry Browns by default. I liked Browns but I'm not married to them.
- Cost can be anywhere between $50 and $150, but I prefer paying more if the quality matches the price.
- Colour scheme shouldn't be too shouty, but doesn't need to be full black/white either. This is what my keyboard looked like. I like that type of distinct but not loud colour scheme.
- Usecase is both typing and gaming, not heavy office work, but a decent amount of Tildes comment writing.
I was debating putting it into ~tech or ~gaming, but I suppose it's too allround for gaming. Although if it needs to move I'd love to hear it.
If someone has a suggestion, please let me know!
Thank you everyone!
Some Keychron keyboards might interest you. I've heard decent things about the brand in general from other people and really like my K6 Pro.
Here's a link if you just want to look at their in-stock 100% keyboards.
Seconded, I have a Q6 (non-pro) and I love it. I wasn't sure about spending so much on a keyboard, but it's incredibly solid and I really value how much tinkering I can do with it between QMK and hot-swappable switches.
Another Q6 user chiming in here - went for it as one of the few options for full size with ISO layout, same as @trim, and I’ve been very happy with the choice. I’ve been pleasantly surprised at how valuable having QMK (for macros) and the rotary dial (for calls and media) have been: both comparatively small things that I wouldn’t have originally gone out of my way for, but once you use them 15 times a day it’d be a noticeable loss to go without.
Oh, I don't have a rotary on this :( I find keychron's list of models and names quite confusing I must say.
All I really wanted was shine through, UK ISO, wired, and reasonable thock. Didn't want to be bothered trying to buy a board and keycaps, much as I enjoy watching hipyotech's videos :)
My mistake, I must've read "full size / Keychron / UK ISO" and missed the K-series vs Q-series distinction! Good reminder that they do have a bunch of models with sometimes fairly subtle differences, in that case.
Thank you, I for sure will. Your recommendation just got echoed a couple of minutes ago so I'll definitely keep an eye on these.
FWIW, Woot has been having regular sales on random Keychrons in the past few months, sometimes at 60% off MSRP prices. I picked up a couple of Q3's (TKL is my preferred layout) at around $80 a piece (normally ~$200) - although I swap out the switches and keycaps to my preference, and don't really like the stock Keychron options. I do like the heavy aluminum base though, and the open source QMK firmware.
The sales just seem to pop up randomly, and the popular models go quick, so you have to keep an eye on them - same models showed up multiple times, sometimes months apart, as more overstock inventory was released, I am guessing. They did have the Q6 and some of the other cheaper 100% layouts (with keypad) as well at steep discount, and might again (right now I only see Q4 and Q2 in stock though)
Here is my current daily driver Q3 w/knob (with MT3 profile /dev/tty PBT keycaps, and Outemu Silent Yellow Jade tactile switches)
Thanks for the tip, although I'm not sure I'll be able to use it considering my location (the Netherlands).
Different question though, what's that knob used for? I see it as an added option on keychrons, and while I'm sure they're programmable, what is the intended function?
The knob defaults to audio volume control (and mute if you press it as a button) - the first Q3 I got was without knob, and then later they had one with knob for sale, so I snatched it as well. However, the knob is a bit disappointing, it's small and stiff, and a bit awkward to use and in an awkward spot, so in retrospect I don't really care much about it, and don't use it as much as I thought I would. The larger knob on the Q3 Pro model might be better, but I have not had a chance to try it yet, and I am not really a fan of the extra wide macro keys on the left side anyway.
The knob can be easily remapped in VIA/QMK however to whatever key code you want, or macro, or whatever. Also, both versions (with knob and without) also map the volume control to Fn+F10 (mute) Fn+F11 (volume down) and Fn+F12 (volume up), but those are a bit of an awkward stretch with one hand, the knob is still better.
I figured as much. Not really needed for me either way. I control my volume through an Elgato Wave so that works far better I'll assume.
Seconding Keychron as someone pretty far down the rabbit hole. I've built everything of mine that wasn't a split ergo, and I still just bought a keychron when we moved for our "main" computer.
They're easy to acquire, seem to work fine, and still are compatible with things like Via (after some futzing around getting the json you need), work for mac or pc, and can be wired/bluetooth/wifi(although the wireless performance has been spotty on mine, that might be because of the computer).
They're also relatively cheap compared to some builds, especially if you get custom keycaps normally. I got mine for $100
I've got a low profile 60%, the k7 max, and it's more than good enough. I know they have a variety of boards with a 10 key.
Oh and they even use doubleshot PBT keycaps to my memory.
Unfortunately, full-size boards aren't all that popular within the enthusiast space (most who need a numpad just use a separate one), so that restricts the recommendations I can make.
With that in mind, is layout outside of having a numpad important? There's variants like 96%, 1800, and southpaw that still have numpads but remove other keys or move the numpad.
Additionally, how comfortable are you with a little bit of DIY (no soldering, just snap-together assembly)? The number of options increases if not restricted to prebuilt boards.
I'm already working with far too many USB connections to add another in the form of a numpad. I could probably do without and I'm sure it's mainly because I'm a creature of habit, but I just really like having it for any sort of number entry or when I'm doing some calculating. Edit to add: I'm not sure about 96%s, I feel like I'm going to unintentionally hit the numpad even if that may not happen at all.
Not opposed to it whatsoever. If it's good it's good.
So outside the scope of this topic, but I will mention you can bind a numpad on your board under your normal fingers. I generally make m,./jkl/uio/n = to 123/456/789/0 on another layer, which I have found waaay better than having a numpad because it means I don't have to lift my hand to access it.
That said, I'd still suggest getting one with a numpad, that way you have what you're used to, and if you want to screw around with it later, if your board is QMK compatible you can try mapping it to another layer.
Again, totally different thing to the question being asked, but I do like mentioning it because i'm the kind of person who thought they'd never want to get rid of their numpad, but instead realized I like it so much I don't want to have to move my hand to access it.
Something to consider for sure. Rebinding the numpad is an option I could potentially live with. It's not like I use it all the time, it's mainly muscle memory why I use it in the first place.
The only thing I’m not certain about is your threshold for “small frame” but do any of the Ducky keyboards fall into your requirements here?
I’m currently using a Ducky Shine 7 which is a bit more of a chunky base to hold the keys, but I know they make a bunch of other options too so you might find one you like?
Also, do you care about rgb backlighting at all? The Ducky software has a bunch of customisation options that I can set for the keyboard — currently, the backlights are all one colour, but every keypress sends out a ripple of another colour that flows from that keystroke across the rest of the board. Kinda pretty but not necessary at all.
I (personally) don't care whether it's RGB, but some kind of backlight is mandatory. I can't be the only one who works in the dark (probably at least... 75% of the time? I find it restful and relaxing.)
Just personally, I avoid my computing being in a dark space when I’m using any kinds of backlit screens unless I can really crank the brightness way down. I’m one of those weirdos who much prefers light mode, plenty bright monitors, and a fully lit room.
When I last moved house, I even bought a bendy floor lamp that I can point at the wall behind my monitors, because the new house’s ceiling-mounted down lights didn’t create enough ambient background light and I was getting eye strain from the contrast between the monitors and the un-illuminated wall behind.
That said: I completely agree, backlit keys are fantastic, RGB or not
Nahh, RGB doesn't interest me. I want to keep lighting calm and warm through room lighting, RGB is so incredibly "busy".
The Ducky Shine is a good suggestion, I'll look more into that keyboard. It does fit a lot of my asks so good find! Thank you.
The Ducky RGB isn’t just rainbow-vomit, you can fully customise it with the provided software — so if you’d like the keys to all be backlit with a constant warm white colour (without any other effects) you can totally do that too. And even dim it if you’d like it less bright than the default.
I just bought a Keychron K5 Pro QMK and I love it. It's my first low profile keyboard, and I'm absolutely on board with it.
I was kind of forced into the K5 Pro as I wanted a full size board, double shot keys with shine through, and a num pad, in UK ISO layout (that, and the num pad are the hard parts). It's nicely weighted and just the right amount of thock.
I don't run Windows so I can't comment on the software, but I managed to configure RGB patterns (off) and my backlight colour through key combos so I'm happy enough. I have it on a nice steady cerulean colour.
I might look in to if I can poke things through USB devices on Linux to make it change colour according to CPU usage or something. That might be fun.
Oh yeah, it's wired, and multi point bluetooth
I'll be looking into these as the Keychrons are well represented in this thread. Thank you for the recommendation!
FWIW, you should be able to do a decent amount of the configuration in a web browser using Via. Last time I tried it, Firefox didn't support the protocol it used, but I was able to just plug it into my work Mac and open Safari *shrug*.
Like you say, couldn't get it to work with Firefox, the compatibility matrix for that is all red. Tried with Ungoogled Chromium, and whilst that detected a device, it wouldn't work with that either. It paired but that was all.
I'll keep an eye on it though, and see if it works in the future. I expect I'll have this board a long time.
Echoing what others are saying about keychron keyboards. They have a good offering of full size mechanical keyboards matching your requirements.
The only issue is that if you want to go with their best offerings they fall outside your budget range:
The reason I would recommend these is because they use a newer chip and are aimed at gaming as well. There are some cheaper full size models available as well but I don't know enough about those to recommend anything.
I'm not tied to the budget, it's more of an indicator. If the value add is good enough I'm happy to consider the more pricey options. The Keychron was mentioned multiple times and it looks like a strong contender.
Mechanical keyboards have changed a ton since the your keyboard came out and if you're willing to spend some extra money, you can really get something really nice that's perfectly customized to you. It does require you to build the keyboard yourself which is something I really enjoy. Personally, I really prefer a fully custom board and think most people should consider one because to me, the fun of a mechanical keyboard is having options and I've converted a lot of people over to this thinking. However if you don't want the hassle, completely ignore this.
As mentioned elsewhere, full sized keyboards are less common and the ones I'm aware of consist of the Keychron that people have suggested, this Drop or this Ducky board. I built my partner a Keychron Q6 and it's great but for me, the full sized keyboard no longer works for my work/gaming set up. I now use a separate numpad which gives me the flexibility to do data entry while also allowing me to move it out of the way for when I'm gaming. Having the extra space to whip my mouse across while playing a FPS is amazing and now I fully know my aim is shit and can no longer use the "my hand hit my keyboard" as an excuse. Personally, I use the Neo80 as it's quick release mechanism means customization is super simple.
As for switches, I am a big tactile fan and bought WS Studio Browns which I absolutely love, though I've recently moved into the silent tactile world and love the feel of TTC Blueish White - Silents. FYI, Cherry MX browns are widely considered the worst of tactile switches so any upgrade will be real joy to type on.
Finally the best part of a custom mechanical keyboard is keycaps. There are a billion keycap profiles (I usually run cherry/OEM but I really liked SA) with a billion different styles at a bunch of different price points. I got some nice doubleshot PBTs that I find aesthetically pleasing for about $45 which isn't uncommon.
If you do the math, my set up is double the price you're asking, more if you include the assortment of keycaps I purchased on a whim. However for you, I'd recommend the following.
All in you're in the like mid $170s range but if you recycle the keycaps, you're well within your top end range even after shipping.
Last thing to note, a lot of this stuff tends to go out of stock and you may have to search around for stuff in stock. That said, so much of this is all made in China so Aliexpress is actually a legit way to get these products.
edit : just saw this, Luminkey98 which is more expensive but saves on hassle and offers the unique ability to have the numpad on the leftside of the alphas. To me, this is a great option as well as you can basically offset your numpad to the left and still have plenty of mouse room. Does mean that you have to learn to use the numpad with the lefthand but that's probably not too hard.
I had been using a custom made WASD Keyboard for the past 8 years or so but just last week I switched to NuPhy Halo75 v2. WASD had tactile cherry blue switches, which I enjoyed a lot, but the switch and the keyboard itself started to show its age. I could've kept using it with some maintenance (lubing etc.) but some of those tools are not easy to acquire for me, so I thought it'd be fun to switch to a new type of keyboard that's quite different than what I had been using. My new keyboard has linear switches, which took some time getting used to but I'm pretty happy with them now. (Though I do plan on trying out a tactile switch with it later down the road.)
Given your requirements, I think you might want to check it out. It's got a full size version called Halo96. You might be turned off by how RGB heavy the keyboard is, and I'm not a big fan of RGB myself, so I kept it turned off after having my fun with it for the first couple of days. I picked it simply because it seemed like the best "buy it and forget it" type of keyboard within my price range, which is similar to yours. Here's the Rtings review. (It's recommended as the best upper mid-range keyboard for typing.)
Looks like that's a 96% board if the name is any indicator. Those ratings do look good! Although a wristrest is recommended. Is that your experience too?
That's right, it's a 96% keyboard. Unless I'm misinformed, 96% keyboards are basically full sized keyboards that are more compact.
I don't use a wrist rest with mine, but I don't think I have ever used one either. So it's plenty comfortable as it is for me. NuPhy does sell wrist rests on their website.
One thing I'd be cautious of with a 96% - your muscle memory of where keys live will have to be retrained. Not having a gap surrounding cursor keys always takes me an extra half-second to locate even after using a 96% for a few years.
The tiny space saving isn't worth it imo, I regret getting a 96% and plan on buying a proper full-size replacement at some point.
That was my assumption as well. I've never gone for smaller form factors exactly because of muscle memory. I did a typing course when I was like 10, so that stuff is locked in something fierce and any alterations will require an adjustment period I probably will significantly dislike.
I use a full-size WASD keyboard with Cherry MX Blues at home and another with Browns at work, and I like them both. You can buy them without keycaps if you want to reuse your Leopold ones.
There have been a lot of good options mentioned in here, like Keychon if you are looking for a cheaper option, but I personally think that if you're used to a Leopold, you're going to find them feeling a bit cheap/flimsy.
I actually think a newer Leopold may still be a preferred option or something similar like a Filco Majestouch. I also have had good experiences with keyboards from iKBC, Mistel, Varmilo.
The stock caps on Leopold are some of the best stock key caps in the industry IMO, but it is no longer hard to find keyboards that come with thick, decent PBT key caps like it used to be. So if you find the right keyboard, don't let the key caps necessarily put you off.
You sound a lot like a friend of mine (coincidentally he uses a full size Leopold right now), so I won't try to sell you on all the exotic switch and key caps options unless you ask for them. It sounds like you prefer, or at least are perfectly OK with, key caps that are Cherry profile or close to it (Leopold has their own profile that is extremely similar). I imagine anything that uses Cherry profile, OEM profile, or something close will be fine.
Not affiliated with them, but I find mechanicalkeyboards.com always keeps a good selection of full sized mechanical keyboards in stock from good brands. I've ordered from them before and haven't had any issues like I have with some of the smaller more boutique vendors. Amazon or like also also good for getting things quickly.
Thank you for that viewpoint. I won't rule out the others yet, but if what you're saying is true (and I trust it is) I will probably stick with Leopold. The quality of this keyboard is incredible and that matters to me.
Part of the reason I asked here is because I didn't entirely like the colors of the current Leopold offering (and the other part for quality posts like yours and everyone else's), but colour schemes ultimately matter way less than how it feels when I use it.
I'll be considering my options, but thanks! This does help.
On the Keychrons, worth noting that there’s a huge gulf in build/materials across their lineup.
I have a Keychrom Q60 I use regularly and its construction is machined from a block of metal, making it as heavy and solid as most of my custom-built boards. It’s got enthusiast-type features like gasket mounting too.
This is of course reflected in the price. The Q/Q Pro/Q Max lines are a great deal pricier than say the K or V series boards.
This is a very good point, and is also something I've found in Ducky keyboards which is why I don't usually recommend the brand as a whole rather than specific models. I had a Keychron K8 that I bought when I was traveling and needed a "real" keyboard. It's... fine. I just have much nicer keyboards and it was very clear that is felt less substantial and lower in quality than most of my others. It was fine for the price though and it's good for the price if you can get a sale. I didn't have any need or desire for the wireless/BT connectivity though and Keychron seems to include it in nearly every model I was looking at.
Out of interest, what is it you've found to feel flimsy about Keychron? I haven't tried Leopold specifically, but I've used a few higher-end options from other manufacturers and the Q6 still feels like an absolute tank to me (although I do agree that there are fine details that are sometimes a bit more refined on others).
My new Keychron is about half the weight of my Varmillo that it replaced. If I could have got shinethrough keycaps for the varmillo (and it wasn't in pink) I might have just replaced the keycaps, but ... south facing LEDs and shine through don't really work very well.
That said, this keychron has a solid metal base, and some nice switches, with low profile caps. It does not feel in the least bit flimsy, it's solid, and cold metal.
I answered this in another comment, but I agree the Keychron line of keyboards varies in quality depending on the model. The board I got was not in the Q line (K8 hotswappable) and I went in knowing it wouldn't be as nice as my higher end keyboards. I have heard the Q series is better built, but I haven't had my hands on them personally and can only judge based on the one I had. I tend to accumulate lots of keyboards and then gift them as I get others, so it is now in my brother's house and he hasn't made any complaints.
I just bought this and it's the best purchase I've ever made.
I have a cat gif on the little screen. I love the volume controls. And my God, the "chonky buttery" sound is to die for.
I had a much clickier/clackier mechanical keyboard prior to this one and I thought I loved it. This one is so much better that I just find myself wanting to type something on it all the time.