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What are your views on the use of profanity on Tildes?
I don't think Tildes have or should have an official position on that, but I'd like to know what other Tilda Swintons™ think about the subject. Do you think the use of profanity cusswords is in accordance with the implicit behaviors we've established so far? Is there any advantage in trying to "keep it clean" site-wide?
We're adults, aren't we? Swearing is part of language. I'm not one those "free speech at all costs" types because I think there is a good case for limiting certain kinds of language - but there's nothing wrong with a well-placed fuck or bollocks, either for emphasis or comedy reasons. I think if someone is throwing out the swears every other word it can come off as childish or immature - but then that kind of post will probably not get much in the way of engagement anyway, so it's kind of self-limiting without the need for rules.
That is my view also. I created this thread to make sure because I was writing another one and wondering if my language might be considered too strong.
Even if not everyone here was an adult, I don't think there should be censoring of specific words. I don't think it necessarily harms children to hear profanities.
I'm in two weekly D&D games, and while most of the players are adults (I'm 45 and I'm not the oldest player) there are a couple of actual kids, a 10 year old and a 13 year old, both girls. Both the 10 year old's mothers and the 13 year old's father are players, and they don't ask us to censor our language around them. These aren't what anyone would call "lower class" people, either. The two mother's are both lawyers and live in a beautiful house. The other girl's father is a psychiatrist with his own private practice (we use his office for one of the campaigns).
Fair point, although I don't think "adult" is all that related to age, more maturity. One of my friends is 12 and they're more of an adult than some forty year olds I know.
If a post is so flooded with profanity it becomes an issue, it'll be tagged as noise anyways.
It's all about context. A blanket ban on any use of swear words makes no sense. They are excellent tools to emphasize emotion, and are perfectly harmless in those cases.
If they are being used in an abusive manner, then that is a problem with the person using the words, not the words themselves.
Words themselves don't matter, the intent they're used with does. You can be thoroughly foul to another person without using any swearwords at all, and you can pepper shits and cunts all over without offending any but the most thin-skinned.
Seeing as pointless malice is already so frowned-upon on this site, arbitrarily limiting the words you can use is pointless and counter-productive. The existing culture is a far better one, and removing swear words from it wouldn't improve it any, in my opinion.
This reminds me of what my mother used to tell us as children: "Swearing shows a lack of imagination. If you need to insult someone, there are lots of other ways to do it without resorting to swearing."
I should point out she was a "do as I say, not as I do" type person... ;)
However, it took me until I was in my mid-20s to get the hang of swearing properly.
Yeah nah cunt, swear words give language bloody colour
Found the Aussie!
Malicious profanity can be handled within the current Tildes' rules
Malice.Noise.Joke.Adding an extra rule can do more harm than good
Unfortunately, there can be external factors
I hope such external factors will never materialise, but if they do, I suggest that any resulting rule alterations explicitly mention those factors.
P.S. While it should be clear that I am against a sitewide ban on profanity (just as I am against any limitations on any specific kinds of legal content other than fluff in general, as I believe Tildes' goal of high-quality discussion is sufficient), I would not mind if particular (sub)groups have their own, more specific rules. (~talk.nice?)
I hate this. I've had very confusing conversations with people who @%#& out certain words. It's $%#@ annoying!
I stopped that video about 1 minute in, at "don't hide behind the first letter like a faggot". That's not quoting the word for shock value, that's using it derogatorily and homophobically.
Yes, people should take responsibility for their own swearing.
You didn't make a mistake. You linked a relevant video.
I just happened to find something offensive in that video. That's not your fault.
This is actually interesting to think about. I, too, am against having a full community like this having no profanity rules but you bring up a good point for specific subgroups. Though, since users can't really make their own yet, it seems like something that doesn't really need to be considered for a while yet.
You mean, like rules about cusswords? I think we're doing alright without.
Yeah, cusswords. Isn't "profanity" clear? Not my first language.
Profanity can also include irreligious or taboo behaviors. Your post made sense, though.
Thanks. I'll update, though, just to make it precise.
I like swearing and I dislike sanitizing speech that isn't going after anyone. Slurs are often doing that by their mere mention (and they're a good catch-all filter for finding assholes anyway), so I don't want any of that shit here...but normal profanity adds flavor imo.
By the nature of this site's quality rules, it's already bound to outwardly look elitist and more than a little dry, and I don't see any reason to add to that. This doesn't have to be a high-class and clean place, just somewhere with content worth looking at for reasons other than "ad money" and where you can safely assume you won't see white supremacists on every page. There's gonna be edge cases (is "cunt" a slur or a generic swear?), but I don't think it'll be that much of a problem.
What is the difference between curse words and slurs (asking as a non-native speaker of English)?
A normal swear word / curse word usually doesn't target a specific group or anything like that, it's just a vulgar way to say something strongly. "Shit," "fuck," things like that. Slurs on the other hand either are being used or have a history of being used to put down a specific group of people. Calling a gay person a "faggot" is an example of that, it's closely associated with real violence and discrimination and drags all those things out all at once. Slurs can often hurt people or make people very angry on their own, while swear words won't do that. Swear words are generally just considered vulgar, the kind of thing someone wouldn't say to their mother but not something that's bad in general, though there are people who don't like them at all.
What I mention with "cunt" is that people disagree on if that's a slur or a swear word. It has been used to target women and in that way it can be viewed as a slur, but it also gets used in general as a filler word that doesn't have the same meaning and doesn't attack anyone. Near as I can tell, the difference there is some combination of your relationship with the person using the word and regional differences.
I'm comfortable not using slurs in order to help marginalized people feel more welcome, even if I have to admit I slip up a lot.
Non-specific profanity I suppose I could do without but ultimately I don't think it would be a rule for it's own sake. Profanity can punctuate an intent to demean or deride but anyone smart and motivated enough will know how to skirt such rules by insulting people without needing to use profanity.
Similarly not every bout of profanity, as far as I'm concerned constitutes an incivility, we all use it and hear it around us frequently that I think words like "fuck" don't really offend anything but the most puritanical senses.
Lastly: sometimes people really are just being dicks, and I while I think it's important to not make that the first reaction to somebody being less than graceful I also don't think there's moral high-ground in not calling somebody for what they are.
I think some situations require swear words. I just finished watching Mindhunter, David Finchers' show about serial killers, and swear words are entirely necessary to properly describe the moral abhorrence of those individuals.
I'm not sure I agree, I think they're useful but I wouldn't go all the way to necessary. Language is a beautiful and complex thing and even faced with limitations there are ways to emotionally express oneself.
Yeah. Swear words being censored in movies is one of the things that really pisses me off. It is a key part of the art.
Mobsters swear a lot. So in order portray them accurately in Goodfellas, you have to have your characters swear a lot. Taking that out of the movie completely ruins it.
Same goes for raunchy comedies. The swearing is the entirety of what makes them funny. Take that out and there is nothing left. It baffles me why Comedy Central bothers to air those movies. They are unwatchable. None of the jokes make any sense because half the dialogue is missing.
I don't see any advantage in bans, though I think overusing profanity may reflect a shortage of linguistic skill and imagination.
As corrective when I'm quick-posting and didn't take time to think of a better way to express myself, I'll stick in a self-censoring asterisk or two on my shts or fcks, but that doesn't really obscure the intent to say something nasty.
I view profanity as just being another part of our vocabulary, with appropriate and inappropriate uses of it. It's also incredibly annoying to see any one particular word being used repeatedly, e.g. over-using the word "very" when there is a very (ha!) wide variety of synonyms to choose from to mix things up, and the same is going to be true of over-using profanity.
Hell, even racial slurs have their place in language as long as they're the subject of discussion or a necessary component of the discussion, rather than being used to refer to the subject. For example, when discussing encountering an instance of racism and retelling the events, it's acceptable to quote the use of a racial slur.
Not a single word should ever be forbidden, but their use should be appropriately regulated.
I do not like profanity and the current trend to embrace and revere it.
Is the word getting used as an insult? Does that word have known colloquial root-descriptors for groups that have it pretty rough these days (i.e. women and the mentally disabled)? And does my gender/race have a shitty track record when it comes to treating that group fairly? If I answered yes to more than one of those questions, I try to avoid whatever profanity it is.
I don't mind if others don't adhere to that rule (depending on the profanity; sometimes it's just inexcusable), but that's just my personal take on its usage.
Eh, we shouldn’t try to ban it or whatever, cause it’s useful language sometimes. However, I hope that it never gets to a point where people think the curses themselves are funny. I mean, shit, it’s not like you’re in middle school or something
Insults and hate speech are bad, but colourful language ain't a fuckin' problem. :)
Personally I think the language a person uses is one of many tools that reveals a lot about them. Be prepared to be judged, no matter whether you use profanity or big words, or any other linguistic patterns. It's human nature to come to conclusions, justified or not, based on available data.
Swearing should be okay, but don't swear at people.
It's fine in moderation. I don't think a blanket ban is helpful, we should use humans to judge intent for things like swearing which is a very human action.
I don't think enforcing a rule would be an ok thing to do. Right now, things are pretty chill, there's no one going around yelling obsenities and shit.
In my experience, the insistence on "clean" language is classist bullshit that uptight bourgeois types push because they think everything should be about them.