Preparation for the 2019ish Tildes Census 2: Electric Boogaloo
Hello everyone, it's me again, that guy who can't create online forms reliably.
As some people might've noticed, the last attempt backfired on me in two ways:
- The form itself was... Lacking, as numerous comments told me
- The wonderful, privacy conscious form creating site I used physically broke after about 70 responses, meaning I lost the entirety of the data collected thus far and any future response. As I couldn't view the responses individually either, this means that the previous attempt was a complete failure.Please hurl your insults at me in the PMs to not clutter these comments.
This has lead me to create a new form on a new site: JotForms. As this is commercial site, it shouldn't break after a handful of replies and also is still privacy conscious. They do not save any data as the recipient of the data (me) is declared as the controller. Be assured that I will use all collected data solely for the census (i.e creating fancy graphs and analysing it).
The only positive aspect here is that at least I got to address valuable feedback you guys gave me. I've updated the political section and expanded the work and education section. I'm sure it can still be improved though.
The currently only problem I have is that on the free tier of JotForms, you're limited to 100 submissions, which we'll surely exceed based on the numbers of the last census. Buying the premium for one month (actually subscribing and then cancelling it) would cost me USD 19. That's not the world to me, but would you guys be fine with me appending a paypal link to send some voluntary donations my way if you think I'm doing a good job? I don't want to make a profit, I'd just like to recoup the cost.
Currently, the form is still in editing, you can view a picture of it's current form here. Nothing is set in stone, and I'm open to all suggestions.
I think you’re being too hard on yourself. You didn’t do anyone any harm. I would just consider the first attempt a rough draft. Hardly anyone gets anything nontrivial right the first time, and as far as surveys go, there isn’t any objective definition of 'right'.
Also, I’d be happy to chip in a dollar or two if there is a PayPal link on the next iteration.
I'm just venting a bit of frustration I had with the last iteration. I'll probably lose the desire to please everyone at some point, depending on how long this will go on.
Thanks again, Grzmot. I'm sorry the last one went south, but I think this next one will be bigger and better than the last.
Given that the last full survey was when the site was not visible to the public, would it be valuable to ask whether or not someone has an account? It might be good to see what proportion of responses are coming from viewers rather than members.
EDIT: I realized I forgot to mention that I will gladly contribute to help cover costs.
I think that would be a nice addition.
Looks great! Don't beat yourself up so much.
A few suggestions:
I don't have a great source that outlines specifically why this kind of methodology has been adopted elsewhere, but my own take on it is as follows:
The framing of gender questions is dependent upon the reason for having the questions in the first place - what are we trying to answer here? I believe the goal is simply to capture demographics to understand which populations are on this website and how they are represented.
Given this framing, the goal should be to focus questions on how the person identifies and should take into consideration how cisgender, transgender, and agender people view themselves.
The first question is asking how they identify and gives the 2 most common options, another option for those who do not believe in the gender binary (or at least identify as not a part of it) and a final option for anyone who falls outside these.
The following question is a rewording of a 2 step question methodology you see more increasingly in the medical space which has a different purpose for asking the question. In the medical space they ask if you are transgender because it helps to inform medical decisions. It's been re-framed to consider yourself to allow for people the freedom to self identify or not as a transgender or minority individual, so that they may understand their own representation among the tildes community. Some individuals are deeply uncomfortable with being labeled as transgender and simply prefer to identify as the gender they are - no framing of the question will get them to label themselves as transgender so the change from "are you" to "do you consider yourself" is a harmless one.
What's the point of a label if people who fall under it, can just reject it? At that point I might just offer m/f/non binary as options since it doesn't matter anyway.
"The point"? I'm not sure. What's the point of this census? Do you want to label people, or do you want to get to know the Tildes community?
If the former - if you want a list of labels that will apply "perfectly" to each respondent - then there's no point to it. You are relying on self-reporting, for things that often have conflicting definitions or interpretations (e.g., bi vs pan). You have no way to ascertain their truthfulness, or whether they are thinking about the same thing as you.
If the latter, well. Some people think that rejecting some label is important to them, for whatever reason. Maybe your definition disagrees with theirs, maybe it just doesn't resonate with them, but listening to them tends to be a good idea.
At the very least, asking people "do you consider yourself trans" will give you information about how many people feel comfortable identifying themselves as trans, whether or not they talk about it on Tildes proper - maybe because they barely came out to themselves, or because they started their transition decades ago - and that would be a decent approximation of Tilde's trans population as a whole.
In any survey anyone can reject whatever you propose and substitute whatever they want.
If you ask me, I think labels are actually pointless because humans are so diverse that every label will fail to describe them accurately. But unless you want to get into a deep discussion about that right now, I'll just leave it at that.
The current labels do a great job at describing an overwhelming majority of people though. I agree though, this would be a (very I interesting) conversation for another thread. For now, do know that I've followed your lead and separated the questions as per your original proposal.
This is a huge improvement over the previous version. I didn't feel comfortable completing the previous version because it didn't have the responses I wanted to give. There are still some improvements to make, though.
At the risk of obliterating Pandora's Box, atheism is not a faith, so putting it in the list of faiths rankles. Further on that note, I'd consider adding at least the most popular pagan faith, Wicca. Another request for a free text field for languages, possibly multiple. I'd also ask for more breakdown in the "information technology" field; there's a big difference between helldesk staff rebooting printers and Windows machines all day to someone writing the software that runs on the printers and Windows machines, and I identify more with the latter than the former. Grouping all of STEM together is also problematic; how does that differ from your similarly overly broad IT? I write software; that software is technology. Should I select STEM rather than IT? Please include a "some college" option for those of us presently in the process of getting a degree. Another request for BSD among the list of operating systems (and I appreciate making it a multiple choice; I've got a MacBook on the arm of the couch and a FreeBSD ThinkPad on my lap right now). Please change "on which platform do you use TIldes the most?" to allow multiple selections and reword it accordingly. My usage is split, principally between desktop / laptop and iPad.
Overall, a drastic improvement from the first version; well done! With just a few more tweaks I'd feel comfortable answering this version without feeling like I wasn't being fully honest or outright lying due to lack of options.
looks at thread
Box obliterated with tremendous success.
In a more serious note, we should probably be arguing about whether these distinctions are actually relevant to the census.
We've gone past that point a long time ago.
Disagree.
Atheist and Agnostic should absolutely remain as options, and instead, the question itself should be reworded, such that these are more appropriate options ... something like "What religious belief(s), if any, do you hold?" I'd also include a "None/Not religious" option.
There's also the point that people frequently refer to themselves as both agnostic and atheist.
What is to you the difference between Agnostic, Atheist and Not religious?
You weren't asking me but here's how I would draw the lines:
Not religious is just not religious. Both atheists and agnostics are not religious. And non-religious people can still believe in spirituality without belonging to a certain religion.
I disagree. This is a question about beliefs, not "belonging to" a religion as you put it, which would be a matter of organizational affiliation.
Believing there is no god is different from believing it's impossible to know. Not having either of those beliefs is a third category.
I phrased it weirdly, I meant "being part of a faith".
Yeah, but that third category isn't "not religious".
Ah, point taken. Maybe "no beliefs" or "undecided" would be better than "not religious."
Nutshell? Don't know, don't believe, don't care.
If No is your answer, then either Atheist or agnostic should be your pick, no?
How would you feel if the answers remain the same, but the question is reworded to Are you religious, if yes, what religion are you a part of?
What do you mean with "some college"? Like list specific colleges? Also, the list of jobs are categories which all hold actual jobs. Following that link would tell you where exactly you are, although since you're a software engineer, I'd place you firmly in IT, independent of the kind of software you actually write.
"some college" means some amount of credits that does not amount to a degree, i.e. someone just starting or someone (like me) who can't make up their mind or who has life getting in the way but who still wants to get a degree.
As for the work bit, I would vehemently disagree with being put in the same category as folks diddling routers and rebooting Windows machines all day. And I similarly disagree with being called a "software engineer" since none of the regimented, measured approaches of engineering disciplines apply to software.
Software Engineering as a term though has been chosen as the term for the field of writing software for a living, and it is in the same category as Windows and *NIX administration, machine learning and providing helpdesk support. They're all subcategories of the big field called Computer Science.
If I begin breaking these categories up, others will demand more granular work selection as well, which will very quickly lead. The list itself is from here and you can check the categories to see in which one you fall in.
It's not condescension, it's a different kind of work. Sorry if it reads as condescension, that wasn't the intent.
Hey!! I’m sorry man, I didn’t need to jump down your throat. I just switched from engineering to network/IT and am insecure. Sorry.
No worries, it happens! No reason to be insecure, sure you're rocking the new job. :D
Could you add an "Other" field for language?
Preferably two, for people who live in a “non-popular” country and have a native language different from the official one. E. g. a Gagauz person living in Moldova would need one for Romanian/Moldovan and one for Gagauz.
Yeah, and for people who speak more than 2 languages (see India or South Africa)
Well, let's just say l spent an awful long time tapping at the screenshot before realizing it was a screenshot.
Thank you for doing this! I'm sorry the first attempt frustrated you so much, but know that your efforts are appreciated.
:l
One suggestion that no one seems to have given already is to maybe add a question maybe about specific phone models, rather than 'android', since all that tells you is that 'blank percent of users don't use an iPhone' (although admittedly that's gonna need an 'other' option). A 'how did you find Tildes' question could also be useful to determine where are we coming from, although that's also gonna need an 'other' option. The lack of an 'other' option in the languages list is also a problem.
My thoughts...
"Where are you from?" Should be, "Where do you live?", or "Where are you located?" I'm from the US; I live in Hungary.
The "faith" question should include atheist, agnostic, and also something like "none/not religious", and the question should be rephrased so that these options are reasonable answers (see my separate comment, above).
For languages, not only include a freetext "Other" option, include 2 or 3.
Mobile OS should be checkboxes, and separate "Android" at least to "Stock Android" and "Alternative/Non-standard Android" ... perhaps include options like Sailfish, Lineage, etc, perhaps include "Linux" as an option. Currently, I have 3 mobile phones, running 3 different flavors of Android. In 6 months, I'll have a 4th phone, running Linux.
( ... damn ... ) Also, thanks for doing this.
I don't know how expansive you want to get with it, but some questions like "What are your top 5 most visited websites?" or "top 5 favorite YouTube channels?" might be fun to see the results of.
Why do you hate people over 100?
Cause they should die.
I don't know if it's worth adding, but maybe you could add a field for romantic orientations besides sexuality. You know, someone might be for example asexual heteroromantic and so on. As it is right now, I'll just write it in the free text box, so it isn't too much of a problem, but that might make the data a bit harder to work with.
We've had this conversation in the last thread, and I think for now I'll leave it at the free textbox. Depending on the answers I'll be able to gage of expanding that section is actually necessary.
The site is unresponsive on Safari on iOS.It turns out that it’s a screenshot. Reading comprehension ftw.