17 votes

Calling them groups

I love this website can’t think of anything bad about it apart from really not liking that communities are called groups, I feel this is due in part to Facebook using it but also it’s such an over used term on the internet, could we not think of something more unique for tildes to call it’s communities

63 comments

  1. [23]
    mrbig
    (edited )
    Link
    On Tildes, groups are called "groups" because they are groups that group content. A community is a more abstract social dynamic composed of people that can emerge from a group and share borders...

    On Tildes, groups are called "groups" because they are groups that group content.

    A community is a more abstract social dynamic composed of people that can emerge from a group and share borders with it.

    When it comes to Tildes, AFAIK, a group without a community is feasible, while there can be no community without at least one group.

    I like the way it is, both regarding naming and concepts.

    16 votes
    1. [5]
      Five
      Link Parent
      I would disagree I think most people see group as a group of people not content

      I would disagree I think most people see group as a group of people not content

      1 vote
      1. [4]
        mrbig
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        They are also groups of people since the people that subscribe to them form a group. In practice, it is very unlikely that the issue you present will ever present itself.

        They are also groups of people since the people that subscribe to them form a group.

        In practice, it is very unlikely that the issue you present will ever present itself.

        1 vote
        1. [3]
          Five
          Link Parent
          When you say it seems like you are saying it is just content

          When you say

          On Tildes, groups are called "groups" because they are groups that group content.

          it seems like you are saying it is just content

          1. [2]
            mrbig
            Link Parent
            I'm sorry. I do make mistakes from time to time hahaha Each group was made with content in mind, and they will always be created with that in mind, but they also automatically group people...

            I'm sorry. I do make mistakes from time to time hahaha

            Each group was made with content in mind, and they will always be created with that in mind, but they also automatically group people (subscribers or whatever); a prototype of what can eventually become a community in the proper sense (a group of people with specific social dynamics).

            2 votes
            1. Five
              Link Parent
              It’s ok we forgive you:)

              I'm sorry. I do make mistakes from time to time hahaha

              It’s ok we forgive you:)

              1 vote
    2. [16]
      Turtle
      Link Parent
      I disagree. We need to make Tildes friendly. 'Groups' isn't friendly.

      I disagree. We need to make Tildes friendly. 'Groups' isn't friendly.

      1. [13]
        mrbig
        Link Parent
        What would be both friendlier and reasonable?

        What would be both friendlier and reasonable?

        12 votes
        1. [12]
          Turtle
          Link Parent
          Literally anything but 'groups'. Tildes, squiggles, accents, etc. 'Groups' strikes me as too mechanical.

          Literally anything but 'groups'. Tildes, squiggles, accents, etc. 'Groups' strikes me as too mechanical.

          1. [11]
            mrbig
            Link Parent
            I find that objection kinda weak. I just don't know if not being pleasant enough is a good argument in this case.

            I find that objection kinda weak. I just don't know if not being pleasant enough is a good argument in this case.

            17 votes
            1. Turtle
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              It's not merely about 'not being pleasant enough'. It's about branding. It's about the image we want to present. Who is Tildes for? I personally think 'Groups' is a huge turn off for less...

              It's not merely about 'not being pleasant enough'. It's about branding. It's about the image we want to present. Who is Tildes for? I personally think 'Groups' is a huge turn off for less technical users. But it is exactly that demographic that Tildes needs right now, lest we become yet another Hacker News, Reddit, etc. Branding is important. What if Instagram were called 'Photodump'? Even if it were exactly the same app, I don't think it would have achieved anywhere near the success it enjoys currently. The same applies with Tildes and 'Groups'. Sure, 'Groups' may make the most sense semantically, but IMO being inviting to a wide variety of users is much more important.

              2 votes
            2. [9]
              reese
              Link Parent
              I think we should make them less pleasant. Let's call groups hell worlds instead.

              I think we should make them less pleasant.

              Let's call groups hell worlds instead.

              12 votes
              1. mrbig
                Link Parent
                As a heavy metal fan, hell worlds sounds quite pleasant.

                As a heavy metal fan, hell worlds sounds quite pleasant.

                5 votes
              2. [6]
                Death
                Link Parent
                I propose we call them Fuck Groups instead. We preserve the cold utilitarianism of Groups combined with the unpleasant and generally understood swear word Fuck.

                I propose we call them Fuck Groups instead. We preserve the cold utilitarianism of Groups combined with the unpleasant and generally understood swear word Fuck.

                3 votes
                1. [2]
                  wakamex
                  Link Parent
                  are these groups for fucking? or a statement in opposition to groups?

                  are these groups for fucking? or a statement in opposition to groups?

                2. [3]
                  mrbig
                  Link Parent
                  Aren't fuck groups kinda pleasant, though? I mean, fucking is generally considered a wonderful activity.

                  Aren't fuck groups kinda pleasant, though? I mean, fucking is generally considered a wonderful activity.

                  1. [2]
                    Death
                    (edited )
                    Link Parent
                    Fornication tires you out and can give you diseases if you're not careful, I don't see what's pleasant about that at all.

                    Fornication tires you out and can give you diseases if you're not careful, I don't see what's pleasant about that at all.

                    1. wakamex
                      Link Parent
                      sometimes it even results in... shudder babies!

                      sometimes it even results in... shudder babies!

      2. [2]
        freestylesno
        Link Parent
        What? How is 'groups' hostile? I feel the word is very neutral.

        What? How is 'groups' hostile? I feel the word is very neutral.

        4 votes
        1. Turtle
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          You're right, it is neutral. Neutral, however, is neither friendly nor welcoming.

          You're right, it is neutral. Neutral, however, is neither friendly nor welcoming.

    3. Diff
      Link Parent
      Isn't that what a category is?

      On Tildes, groups are called "groups" because they are groups that group content.

      Isn't that what a category is?

  2. [5]
    drannex
    Link
    Get this: Tilde. You can join a 'tilde' on a tildes.net, its sort of reminiscent of 'team', its a singular version of 'tildes', and I think it perfectly sums up what we have here. Example...

    Get this: Tilde.

    You can join a 'tilde' on a tildes.net, its sort of reminiscent of 'team', its a singular version of 'tildes', and I think it perfectly sums up what we have here.

    Example (speech): "Hey, have you joined the tilde for that?", "The Music Tilde really has some great tracks on it lately",

    Example (chat): "Hey, have you joined the ~ for that?", the Music~ is really bopping lately"

    10 votes
    1. [2]
      Amarok
      Link Parent
      So Tildes is just a collection of tildes. I can live with that moniker.

      So Tildes is just a collection of tildes. I can live with that moniker.

      4 votes
      1. wakamex
        Link Parent
        that why I could actually justify the name being plural, which has been bugging me till now.

        that why I could actually justify the name being plural, which has been bugging me till now.

    2. [2]
      skybrian
      Link Parent
      Or maybe "subtilde" by analogy with subreddit?

      Or maybe "subtilde" by analogy with subreddit?

      1. drannex
        Link Parent
        I would disagree. We are not reddit nor are we trying to attain 'reddit's culture and tactics, and calling tildes, 'subtildes' would ascribe too much to them and bring about that culture from the...

        I would disagree. We are not reddit nor are we trying to attain 'reddit's culture and tactics, and calling tildes, 'subtildes' would ascribe too much to them and bring about that culture from the (in)direct association.

        12 votes
  3. [8]
    wundumguy
    Link
    What about calling them "accents"

    What about calling them "accents"

    7 votes
    1. [6]
      joplin
      Link Parent
      I personally dislike cutesy themed naming like that. If I was new here, I'd be like, "WTF are accents? How do I find groups?"

      I personally dislike cutesy themed naming like that. If I was new here, I'd be like, "WTF are accents? How do I find groups?"

      22 votes
      1. [5]
        Five
        Link Parent
        I would disagree with you as this site obviously has a learning curve and I think that is done intentionally

        I would disagree with you as this site obviously has a learning curve and I think that is done intentionally

        1 vote
        1. [4]
          wundumguy
          Link Parent
          It's not even much of a learning curve I'd think; the tilde symbol is used as an accent in ñ and accents are one way to distinguish populations

          It's not even much of a learning curve I'd think; the tilde symbol is used as an accent in ñ and accents are one way to distinguish populations

          6 votes
          1. DMBuce
            Link Parent
            Are you sure about that? Wikipedia has this to say (emphasis mine): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilde#Connection_to_Spanish But then I found this on another site while trying to find a source on...

            the tilde symbol is used as an accent in ñ

            Are you sure about that? Wikipedia has this to say (emphasis mine):

            Confusingly, in Spanish itself the word tilde is used more generally for diacritics, including the stress-marking acute accent.[12] The diacritic ~ is more commonly called virgulilla or la tilde de la eñe, and is not considered an accent mark in Spanish, but rather simply a part of the letter ñ (much like the dot over the i).

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilde#Connection_to_Spanish

            But then I found this on another site while trying to find a source on the difference between a diacritic and an accent:

            Accent marks are only one type of diacritic, though the terms are often used interchangeably.

            https://www.rennert.com/translations/resources/diacritics.htm

            So I guess it depends on context and whether the speaker is drawing a distinction between the two or not?

            Personally I always thought of ñ as having a diacritic and not an accent like those things on áéíóú.

            1 vote
          2. [2]
            Five
            Link Parent
            No it’s not going to take you months to learn but I feel it’s been made in a unique way to attract a certain person not just your average Facebook user

            No it’s not going to take you months to learn but I feel it’s been made in a unique way to attract a certain person not just your average Facebook user

            1. Amarok
              Link Parent
              It'll be familiar to some folks. Tildes' heritage is usenet and reddit, continuing that trend into new territory. The hierarchy here should help make the discovery more simple. I imagine a new...

              It'll be familiar to some folks. Tildes' heritage is usenet and reddit, continuing that trend into new territory. The hierarchy here should help make the discovery more simple.

              I imagine a new user just starting at the top level groups, which are just general topic categories. They'll click on what they are interested in, same as most sites.

              When you click into something like ~music or ~science the sub-groups become apparent somehow, likely tied into the way tags work. As you drill down the hierarchy just opens up like a flower at each level.

              5 votes
    2. mrbig
      Link Parent
      An "accent" is how you pronounce a language, it says nothing about content. If I was a new user, I would be completely confused. In my view, the term "groups" follows Tildes' design philosophy...

      An "accent" is how you pronounce a language, it says nothing about content. If I was a new user, I would be completely confused. In my view, the term "groups" follows Tildes' design philosophy which is to be clear and explicitly, requiring little to no interpretation from the user. So a group is called a "group", a comment is called "comment", a vote is called a "vote" and so on.

      No silly business!

      11 votes
  4. [14]
    reifyresonance
    Link
    What do you think would be better? Some specific piece of vocabulary, like "subtilde", or a less overused word, like "community" or "room"?

    What do you think would be better? Some specific piece of vocabulary, like "subtilde", or a less overused word, like "community" or "room"?

    4 votes
    1. [7]
      NaraVara
      Link Parent
      How about calling it a Tile? Then grouping a bunch of Tiles together makes a Mosaic, so people can share those the way multi-reddits work. And the name ends up being a fun little reference for a...

      How about calling it a Tile?

      Then grouping a bunch of Tiles together makes a Mosaic, so people can share those the way multi-reddits work. And the name ends up being a fun little reference for a community that skews heavily towards nostalgic nerds from the "Old" Internet.

      Yeah a Tile has nothing to do with a Tilde neither conceptually nor etymologically, but they're just one letter apart!

      14 votes
      1. [2]
        hungariantoast
        Link Parent
        You might be interested in an old comment by Deimos:

        so people can share those the way multi-reddits work

        You might be interested in an old comment by Deimos:

        It's not a fully fleshed out idea at all, and I don't know if I've even talked about it publicly at all before, but I have this general concept in my head of allowing users to create a bunch of different "views" that they can easily switch through and support any combination of things like only showing topics from particular groups, only showing (or filtering out) topics with particular tags, from particular domains, etc., and setting up different sorting and time periods for each view.

        Like you said, kind of like multireddits, but even more customizable. That way you'd be able to have a bunch of different views like "most upvoted news from today", "newest game deals", "most active ~talk posts today", and so on.

        4 votes
        1. NaraVara
          Link Parent
          Yeah it sounds pretty incipient. It’s probably fine not being articulated clearly as long as Deimos is just one guy handling most things. The need for manifestos about what something is really for...

          Yeah it sounds pretty incipient. It’s probably fine not being articulated clearly as long as Deimos is just one guy handling most things. The need for manifestos about what something is really for doesn’t really kick in until you have a bigger team.

      2. [3]
        Amarok
        Link Parent
        I like the sentiment of stacking the terms that way. What is a group, really? It's a topic and it's built up of all the subgroups/subtopics that fork off from it in the hierarchy. It's also a...

        I like the sentiment of stacking the terms that way. What is a group, really? It's a topic and it's built up of all the subgroups/subtopics that fork off from it in the hierarchy. It's also a community. I don't think anyone is married to the use of 'groups' as the moniker, that's just kinda what we fell into without thinking about it much.

        3 votes
        1. [2]
          NaraVara
          Link Parent
          I think from a design perspective it would probably behoove us to decide whether we want subgroupings to be focused on discussion topic or to be more descriptive of a community organized around...

          I think from a design perspective it would probably behoove us to decide whether we want subgroupings to be focused on discussion topic or to be more descriptive of a community organized around it. The design philosophy there would inform how those things should work. If they're communities we'd be more tolerant of cross-posting and have more relaxed attitudes towards on-topic/off-topic posts. If they're primarily for segregating by topic then we'd be stricter on those things, leading to more focused discussions but also more duplication of threads and less cross-pollination between groups.

          2 votes
          1. joplin
            Link Parent
            I agree with this sentiment (but really dislike "tiles" since it isn't obvious what that means in this context). I like the term "topics" or "groups" depending on how we want it to be organized.

            I agree with this sentiment (but really dislike "tiles" since it isn't obvious what that means in this context). I like the term "topics" or "groups" depending on how we want it to be organized.

            1 vote
      3. Five
        Link Parent
        I love this idea great thinking

        I love this idea great thinking

        1 vote
    2. [4]
      drannex
      Link Parent
      I kind of like the term 'room' it brings the old IRC ideologies into play and seems a lot more inviting, open, and less-closed-in.

      I kind of like the term 'room' it brings the old IRC ideologies into play and seems a lot more inviting, open, and less-closed-in.

      5 votes
      1. [3]
        Kuromantis
        Link Parent
        Tildes seems like a far cry from an IRC, right? Also if it resembles IRC rooms then it's probably overused as well, which is the problem we're having this discussion to solve.

        Tildes seems like a far cry from an IRC, right? Also if it resembles IRC rooms then it's probably overused as well, which is the problem we're having this discussion to solve.

        1. [2]
          pseudolobster
          Link Parent
          Chatrooms in IRC are actually called "channels" though.

          Chatrooms in IRC are actually called "channels" though.

          1. drannex
            Link Parent
            sometimes the community gets it right lol

            sometimes the community gets it right lol

    3. mrbig
      Link Parent
      On "community", see my other comment. And a "room" is basically a chatroom, so that is not ideal. I personally don't see anything wrong with "group".

      On "community", see my other comment.

      And a "room" is basically a chatroom, so that is not ideal.

      I personally don't see anything wrong with "group".

      1 vote
    4. Five
      Link Parent
      I had a good think and couldn’t actually find an Alternative off the top of my head but if we all came together I’m sure we could come up with something. It might be just me that doesn’t like it...

      I had a good think and couldn’t actually find an Alternative off the top of my head but if we all came together I’m sure we could come up with something. It might be just me that doesn’t like it everyone else might like that they are called groups just thought I would put out my opinion on it

  5. Turtle
    Link
    What about squiggles? That sounds kind of cool,

    What about squiggles? That sounds kind of cool,

    1 vote
  6. plain
    Link
    Guild (or even gild) – as it didn't come up yet; personally, I'm fine with group, tilde, …

    Guild (or even gild) – as it didn't come up yet; personally, I'm fine with group, tilde, …

  7. [11]
    moocow1452
    Link
    We tried to decide on what we were going to call our specific brand of netizen for this website. I don't think we're going to be at any more of a consensus here...

    We tried to decide on what we were going to call our specific brand of netizen for this website. I don't think we're going to be at any more of a consensus here...

    8 votes
    1. Death
      Link Parent
      I think the majority voted not to have one, which also seemed to be the hope Deimos had.

      I think the majority voted not to have one, which also seemed to be the hope Deimos had.

      5 votes
    2. [6]
      pseudolobster
      Link Parent
      We never did figure out a good demonym after all those threads, did we? I still like "tildoes" even though it's admittedly immature and self-deprecating.

      We never did figure out a good demonym after all those threads, did we?

      I still like "tildoes" even though it's admittedly immature and self-deprecating.

      4 votes
      1. envy
        Link Parent
        The majority voted no demonym. It's even in the doc.

        The majority voted no demonym. It's even in the doc.

        8 votes
      2. [2]
        Loire
        Link Parent
        I thought tilderinos caught on.

        I thought tilderinos caught on.

        3 votes
        1. Keegan
          Link Parent
          That's what I liked as well, but I'm not sure if it received a majority of the votes for the survey.

          That's what I liked as well, but I'm not sure if it received a majority of the votes for the survey.

          2 votes
      3. moocow1452
        Link Parent
        Tildos was my favorite too. Maybe we should move to have groups called Tildos?

        Tildos was my favorite too. Maybe we should move to have groups called Tildos?

        1 vote
      4. Kuromantis
        Link Parent
        I like "Tild~ers", for Tildes users. Thing is, we're not really the type of people that find this type of stuff fun.

        I still like "tildoes" even though it's admittedly immature and self-deprecating.

        I like "Tild~ers", for Tildes users. Thing is, we're not really the type of people that find this type of stuff fun.

        1 vote
    3. [3]
      mrbig
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I put my money on "Tilda Swinton's". Who would not want to be Tilda Swinton?

      I put my money on "Tilda Swinton's". Who would not want to be Tilda Swinton?

      2 votes
      1. [2]
        pseudolobster
        Link Parent
        The Ancient One in Doctor Strange, probably.

        The Ancient One in Doctor Strange, probably.