This winter we got an Urban Arrow rather than buying a second car. We specifically went for the UA because you can buy an infant carseat adapter to put in the front bucket, and still have another...
This winter we got an Urban Arrow rather than buying a second car. We specifically went for the UA because you can buy an infant carseat adapter to put in the front bucket, and still have another older kid sit in the bucket as well-- requirements for our family at this point. I have to get to bed so I'm just going to pound out some quick points:
we bought in the winter, and got 25% off a floor model at a local bikeshop. At $8000 new, that's a big deal.
yeah, it's friggin' expensive. However, have you seen car prices lately? As a floor model, the bike still has it's full warranty, which doesn't kick in until the bike shop sells it. For insurance, including theft either while out and about or right out of our garage, we pay $100/year-- way cheaper than a car.
At school pickup this spring, I didn't have to worry about putting a kid with muddy boots into the backseat of a car, i just dropped them into the bucket. So easy.
I only use the pedal assist about 20% of the time. So I've never come close to draining the battery, and charge it about once every two weeks. I'm not the worlds most prolific biker but I use it about 6 days a week. The assist is for hills, or going directly into wind, or when i need to get off the line quick at a red light. Otherwise, the weight of the bike keeps the inertia.
That said, I love that it smooths out the "rough edges" of any route. Around me it's pretty flat, except an occasional killer hill. Back when i had a normal bike and burley trailer, I could do most of a ride no problem but then get drenched in sweat in 2 minutes of riding up a hill. The ebike just smooths that edge down a bit, and I find that I'm much more willing to bike than use the car.
With the kid, it's really nice to be able to just pull over in front of a shop and hop out on a whim. In a car, my kid likely isn't paying attention outside at all, or can't see past the front seats and dash, and I'm unlikely to stop anywhere because i'd have to find parking or go to the next street to turn and come back or whatever.
My kid pays way more attention to the road, the geography, the weather, and our neighborhood when sitting up front. I hope it translates into better wayfinding before they go to elementary school, and they can find their own way home due to a familiarity with the streets.
My kid thinks it's so cool, and loves having friends ride with them.
I've been thinking about an e-bike, the only problem is my work is easily 45minutes by car. But, I love bike riding, and after my lungs collapsed two years ago so I tend to have a problem with...
I've been thinking about an e-bike, the only problem is my work is easily 45minutes by car. But, I love bike riding, and after my lungs collapsed two years ago so I tend to have a problem with doing so for extended amount of time - this post might push me to finally bite the bullet (pull the trigger? why are they both gun metaphors? is this universal, or just an americanism?) and get one, or as you did, convert my bike that is just sitting there, dreaming of a day to be useful again.
Aside: Love that you link your tildes in your footer-bio, might do the same for my website refresh I am working on.
Depending on how much of that commute is on city streets, an ebike could possibly make that trip in a similar time. Especially in areas with lots of stop signs and lights, the higher top speed of...
Depending on how much of that commute is on city streets, an ebike could possibly make that trip in a similar time. Especially in areas with lots of stop signs and lights, the higher top speed of a car makes little difference. It doesn't matter if the car could go 90 mph if it has to stop every tenth of a mile because of traffic.
In some areas an ebike might also bring up the possibility of using public transit you would not normally have access to, like busses and trains, which can speed up the trip.
In some areas an ebike might also bring up the possibility of using public transit you would not normally have access to, like busses and trains, which can speed up the trip.
Glad you liked it! Real talk: I have a spare e-bike kit just sitting in the garage, the one I mentioned in the article. I was planning to sell it on Craigslist when the weather gets nicer, but if...
Glad you liked it! Real talk: I have a spare e-bike kit just sitting in the garage, the one I mentioned in the article. I was planning to sell it on Craigslist when the weather gets nicer, but if you're willing to pay for shipping, it's yours. The only thing is the power button is a little finicky, but once it's depressed it stays on and works great.
I have worked in the bicycle industry for a long time, so I guess now is a good time to throw out my PSA on ebike buying for OP and anyone else here interested. I hope I don't come off as overly...
I have worked in the bicycle industry for a long time, so I guess now is a good time to throw out my PSA on ebike buying for OP and anyone else here interested. I hope I don't come off as overly negative, or a "bike snob", but hear me out.
"Bargain" ebikes from Amazon, Costco, and many Chinese direct-to-consumer bands are, more often than not, e-waste waiting to happen. Margins are extremely slim even for even the biggest manufacturers, so when you see a bike with a huge motor and all the bells and whistles for less than anywhere else you can be assured that corners were cut somewhere. Component selection, quality control, and customer service are where I see most of these bikes suffer.
You will likely need to assemble and maybe maintain the bike yourself. If it comes pre-assembled from a store that doesn't have a dedicated bicycle service department, I can almost guarantee that it is assembled poorly. If you aren't comfortable working on a bike, consider if you want your first attempt to be assembling a vehicle that can easily go almost 30 miles an hour with you on it. Flats on a rear wheel motor can be a challenging repair that a lot of people don't expect. If you have electrical issues, don't be surprised if your local bike shop doesn't want to work on it. They probably have been burnt by bikes of poor quality, repairability and difficult to find replacement parts. You might get burnt by the same things, although I hope not.
There are good brands and bike shops that sell quality ebikes for little more all things considered. If price is a concern, look for brands like Aventon or Velotric that have a dealer network in addition to direct sales. If they have managed to keep retailers and service centers on board, it is an indication that they are of decent quality and are able to be repaired easily and in a timely manner. They still keep competitive prices and know how to cater to new and casual riders. If you have a dealer nearby, you can test ride different models, get professional advice, and go home with a fully assembled bike with a service guarantee. Ebikes made by the big brands from the traditional bike world like Specialized, Trek, Cannondale, Giant, etc. are all high quality and ride the best in my opinion, but I understand that they are out of a lot of people's price range.
Finally, don't get caught up in the arms race of high wattage motors. The odds of you needing more than 500w of power are very low. High power ebikes are often needless heavy, accelerate dangerously fast, or both. Fat tire ebikes with 750-1000w motors can easily weigh 80 pounds, which can be a challenge to transport and work on. Especially if you're commuting, get something that is light enough to pick up over a curb or maneuver through a door. The bicycle is already an incredibly efficient machine, it doesn't take much extra power to go quickly and easily.
This seems to loop back to the same problem i've always had, which is that due to the extreme weather and bad layout of the city here, there's not a whole lot of inbetween bike shops. You're...
This seems to loop back to the same problem i've always had, which is that due to the extreme weather and bad layout of the city here, there's not a whole lot of inbetween bike shops.
You're either not on a bike, or you're the sort of person who does the 12 mile mountain scenic loop every week despite the 110 degree weather.
So if i'm someone who would just like to be able to bike to places that are 4-8 city miles away, but brutally uphill going back, what do I even start with?
I don't need something fast for sure, hell I'd love something that is nearly a normal everyday bike EXCEPT I don't die on the hill going back (the whole city slants west to east), but even if I WANT to spend and get something reliable for that price point, what are my options?
I actually bought that Costco bike they’ve got pictured. It’s fairly decent and a good value. I got it at the local warehouse and didn’t pay as much as the picture. They may still be running a...
I actually bought that Costco bike they’ve got pictured. It’s fairly decent and a good value. I got it at the local warehouse and didn’t pay as much as the picture. They may still be running a promo to get a free front basket when you register the bike. I had a whole mess trying to do it because their zendesk setup messes up on email alias setups, but I got it and I really love the aesthetics of it.
It’s got a nice high capacity battery and a fairly beefy motor (AFAIK if it were any more powerful you’d need a license to drive it) but the rest of the components are just okay. Not cheap or bad. I do appreciate that it has standard name brand components and the braking system is hydraulic. The only thing I don’t particularly agree with it is that the tires that come with it are knobby and are not a great match for it. It’s a cargo bike. It should have smooth tires for streets.
I'm so excited you got that bike! I'm seriously tempted to pull the trigger on it because I also love its aesthetic. When you say the rest of the components are just OK, do you mean they're like...
I'm so excited you got that bike! I'm seriously tempted to pull the trigger on it because I also love its aesthetic. When you say the rest of the components are just OK, do you mean they're like too heavy? Does it creak/groan when you're riding it? Does it feel like a couple good bumps would knock stuff out of alignment? I have that large cargo bike from the article and while I really like it overall, it feels kinda cheap sometimes and whenever I get a new bike, I don't want it to feel cheap
I wouldn’t say anything feels particularly cheap. I don’t really have a lot of experience with bikes so I am not well equipped to compare but I do watch a lot of Berm Peak and I can tell that...
I wouldn’t say anything feels particularly cheap. I don’t really have a lot of experience with bikes so I am not well equipped to compare but I do watch a lot of Berm Peak and I can tell that nothing on the bike is spectacularly expensive except the battery. The only possible exception is the display, but that’s nothing. I will add that I found the saddle uncomfortable but I think it will work well for most people. Another small gripe is that it included a derailleur protector but the manual had no reference for it so I had no idea what it was for quite some time.
Do keep in mind though that it is a big heavy bike. The battery alone adds what feels like 20 pounds. This is all good for me because I’m a big guy and needed something super strong to hold me. It may not be exactly what you’re looking for though. It also comes only partially assembled so while stuff has been knocked out of alignment on my bike, it’s almost certainly all my fault.
Hmm, OK maybe I should save a little more for a different bike. That hard part is finding one before the price:quality curve starts leveling off. Hopefully I can find one that still looks as cool...
Hmm, OK maybe I should save a little more for a different bike. That hard part is finding one before the price:quality curve starts leveling off. Hopefully I can find one that still looks as cool as yours
Tbh commuter pedal assist ebikes feel like a weird hack to deal with overly stringent regulation in the west. Like, if you already have a vehicle with two wheels, and an electric motor strapped to...
Tbh commuter pedal assist ebikes feel like a weird hack to deal with overly stringent regulation in the west. Like, if you already have a vehicle with two wheels, and an electric motor strapped to the back wheel, what is the value in making the motor activate when you spin a wheel with your foot, rather than... a throttle?
Imagine if we had pedal assist cars.
For a practical vehicle to get from point A to B, the only value ebikes have over electric mopeds is that because they're technically "bicycles", regulation is laxer - you don't need a motorcycle license or to register it as a motor vehicle. I feel like regulations on low power mopeds should be laxer instead - there's no reason an ebike with a motor that tops at 20-25 mph should have lower regulations than a moped that tops out at 20-25mph.
A lot of people illegally modify their ebikes to have throttles anyway, it just makes it less accessible to wider buying public.
I see your point generally, but I guess one practical response is: if your battery dies you can still pedal it. It'd be harder, but still functional. Also I think mopeds have to meet a minimum...
I see your point generally, but I guess one practical response is: if your battery dies you can still pedal it. It'd be harder, but still functional.
Also I think mopeds have to meet a minimum standard for lights, blinkers, etc. Bikes don't necessarily need all that.
Ehhh they do have some offroad/other capabilities that I think make them distinct. I get that ultimately there's a ton of overlap and a lot of stupidity due to regulations and the like, but at the...
For a practical vehicle to get from point A to B, the only value ebikes have over electric mopeds is that because they're technically "bicycles", regulation is laxer
Ehhh they do have some offroad/other capabilities that I think make them distinct. I get that ultimately there's a ton of overlap and a lot of stupidity due to regulations and the like, but at the end of the day I think an EBike is going to be a little more multipurpose than a moped, and I believe generally going to have a lower top speed.
In general I still think bike paths and the like are the way to go for city infrastructure, rather than pretending bikes should share space with traffic, and in those scenarios i think there's small advantages to a bike vs a moped.
I think you’re still imagining a moped as like a motorcycle-lite, but take this scenario as an hypothetical. Scenario A: a normal pedal assist ebike Scenario B: the same bike from scenario A, but...
I think you’re still imagining a moped as like a motorcycle-lite, but take this scenario as an hypothetical.
Scenario A: a normal pedal assist ebike
Scenario B: the same bike from scenario A, but modified with a throttle clipped to the handlebars that’s wired to the electric motor (something that’s already a very easy mod anyone can do today, and many people do do today)
Scenario B is a “moped” legally - it has to be registered with the DMV, and you need a motorcycle license.
But is there any actual situation in which scenario A would be safe to ride somewhere, but B isn’t? Are you unable to commit negligence when burning a token amount of carbs or something?
I’d argue that B is what most consumers who want to use an ebike as a practical A to B machine want (and hence why many people illegally mod their e-bikes to become).
That really depends on where you live. Most of the US uses a class system, and having a throttle on a class 1 e-bike simply moves it into class 2; class 3 is for bikes that can go more than 20 mph...
That really depends on where you live. Most of the US uses a class system, and having a throttle on a class 1 e-bike simply moves it into class 2; class 3 is for bikes that can go more than 20 mph under motor power.
What that actually means varies a lot depending on where you live. Here in California you don’t need license or insurance for classes 1 and 2, and you can still use bike trails and lanes. Class 3 means you can only use bike lanes that are part of streets but still don’t need license or registration.
But that is still just state law. Counties and cities can and often do put other restrictions on the books.
As noted by @mattsayar, you can still pedal an assisted bike if it dies. In fact, I have a 112lb cargo ebike yet only use the lowest assist level about 20% of the time, and otherwise not at all. I...
As noted by @mattsayar, you can still pedal an assisted bike if it dies. In fact, I have a 112lb cargo ebike yet only use the lowest assist level about 20% of the time, and otherwise not at all. I use the assist up hills, or if i'm directly into the wind (it's got a big bucket on the front), or if I'm at a busy traffic light and think I'll need some oomph to get off the line.
Otherwise, I just get that inertia and it's easy to maintain the speed with no assist at all. It's one of the unexpected parts of the ebike purchase, for me, that the advertised "range" doesn't really matter at all, because I'm not using the battery most of the time. The other unexpected bonus is that I can put a muddy kid in the front bucket after school without worrying about the car backseat getting dirty like all the other parents at pickup.
Agreed that the regulations around similar speed vehicles should be the same, but I disagree that pedal assist is a hack! There were some studies floating around recently (here’s the first review...
Agreed that the regulations around similar speed vehicles should be the same, but I disagree that pedal assist is a hack! There were some studies floating around recently (here’s the first review that I could find on Google) that indicate people still get some exercise from using an ebike (at least as much as walking), so in practice they’re not just spinning the pedals around with no force.
That modest amount of moderate exercise every day is what is being recommended for reducing mortality rates in developed countries — getting some exercise in during your commute is genuinely an excellent intervention for many, many people (in Canada and the US), which is not something that you’ll necessarily get from pulling a throttle on your motorcycle/scooter (although ideally we’d have studies confirming that).
Did not know that costco sold them. That might finally help me get around the decision paralysis. The whole market feels rough to get into when its a $1000+ device and so much of the information...
Did not know that costco sold them. That might finally help me get around the decision paralysis. The whole market feels rough to get into when its a $1000+ device and so much of the information feels like overkill (at least when i've looked into it).
Living in a city that gets easily into the 110F range I want to make sure it's something I get worth out of when the weather is less brutal.
Edit- Reviews on the site have a bit concerned though. Seems like magnum support/quality might be less than stellar.
Edit 2-
What kills me about ebike reviews, or at least the ones I can find, is there's a lack of "x months later" stuff. Yeah i get it, the thing works out of the box and has neat features. It's $1000's and not something I can fix easily, and has the usual mix of reviews complaining about quality. Does it still work? (ok they exist but they don't seem to be the standard, which drives me crazy).
I’ve never figured out how someone feels comfortable leaving any bike outside at the grocery store. My only adult bike was stolen off my front porch, they just cut the lock. I realize that someone...
I’ve never figured out how someone feels comfortable leaving any bike outside at the grocery store. My only adult bike was stolen off my front porch, they just cut the lock. I realize that someone is less likely to wander around a grocery store parking lot with bolt cutters , but the locks are so easy to pop!
Are e-bikes different because of the extra weight and maybe something like a key? Or is my issue more of a matter of being involved in locksport?
Your front porch probably has less foot traffic than in front of the grocery store, which makes bike theft via cutting the lock less risky. Bike theft also varies a lot regionally, and is...
Your front porch probably has less foot traffic than in front of the grocery store, which makes bike theft via cutting the lock less risky. Bike theft also varies a lot regionally, and is understandably proportional to how popular and useful transit by bike is in an area (bike thieves dedicated enough to cut locks usually want to resell the bikes, after all). And the fanciness of both the neighborhood/building and the bike can play a factor. My apartment complex has been a target in the past bc it's a new building and the parking garage is full of fancy-ass cars, which is basically a neon sign to thieves that they'll get their money's worth.
Both the weight of the bike and the annoying-ness of the lock can contribute to making a bike too time-consuming to steal for thieves. My ex-wife's 6000€ Urban Arrow survived bike thieves gaining access to our apartment building's bike room because it's both quite heavy to move on its own and has a Dutch frame lock (and when the lock is built into the frame, naturally you can't cut it off). Time is money even for thieves.
E-bikes are actually bigger targets since they’re more expensive. In urban areas you often have to pop the battery out and carry it with you just because it’s so easy and valuable to steal e-bike...
E-bikes are actually bigger targets since they’re more expensive. In urban areas you often have to pop the battery out and carry it with you just because it’s so easy and valuable to steal e-bike batteries that it’s a matter of fact that it will be stolen. Even aside from that, e-bike frames tend to be more expensive.
In practice, it just depends on where you live. Places with less social disorder you can be more lax.
The better e-bikes have the batteries locked in place for exactly that reason. With an integrated lock there's no real route to easy theft, and I've parked my e-bike on curbside racks hundreds of...
The better e-bikes have the batteries locked in place for exactly that reason. With an integrated lock there's no real route to easy theft, and I've parked my e-bike on curbside racks hundreds of times. I have had my water bottles stolen a couple of times, but nothing else.
I bought a heavy duty bike lock chain. I mean heavy duty; it weighs 7.4lbs. I paid Kryptonite, the lock manufacturer, something like $100 for insurance, so if the bike gets stolen (and it was...
I bought a heavy duty bike lock chain. I mean heavy duty; it weighs 7.4lbs. I paid Kryptonite, the lock manufacturer, something like $100 for insurance, so if the bike gets stolen (and it was locked up!), they'll reimburse me for the bike. Never had to deal with that, and I expect it wouldn't be smooth if I did, but it brings me peace of mind.
If you pick up an electric Brompton folding bike, you can fold it up while using its front bag to hold your groceries (example, although I push my bike from the seat instead of the handlebars for...
If you pick up an electric Brompton folding bike, you can fold it up while using its front bag to hold your groceries (example, although I push my bike from the seat instead of the handlebars for extra stability). Plus, it’s small enough to fit into every any apartment or apartment elevator I’ve come across, and even restaurants have been OK with my pushing it under the table (with one exception, but they were good with keeping it by the umbrella stand).
They’re reaaalllly expensive bikes for what they are, but it effectively drops the odds of having it stolen to zero.
I have a Tern GSD, and in addition to the regular U lock to lock it to the rack, it also has an integrated "cafe lock" which immobilzes the front wheel. Even if they did cut the U lock, they'd...
I have a Tern GSD, and in addition to the regular U lock to lock it to the rack, it also has an integrated "cafe lock" which immobilzes the front wheel. Even if they did cut the U lock, they'd still have to pick up and carry away the bike. I've never been worried that someone would try it. They'd need a truck.
Does anyone have experience with a conversion? My expectation is they’re less efficient than standard e-bikes, but I’m less concerned about that. I like the idea of not buying a second bike, but I...
Does anyone have experience with a conversion? My expectation is they’re less efficient than standard e-bikes, but I’m less concerned about that. I like the idea of not buying a second bike, but I like using my bike for exercise and I worry if I wanted to do that (i.e. not use the assist) the extra weight would be burdensome. I also assume they’re not super quick to pop on and off. Anyone have any advice or thoughts on this?
They're not super quick to pop on and off; it's a total wheel replacement. The ebike wheel + battery adds ~20lbs which is indeed burdensome. I've lost power going uphill before and it was a bear...
They're not super quick to pop on and off; it's a total wheel replacement. The ebike wheel + battery adds ~20lbs which is indeed burdensome. I've lost power going uphill before and it was a bear to get to the top. I made sure to keep my battery topped off after that.
You can pop off the battery pretty easily and ride with just the ebike wheel. It doesn't add friction so it's just like riding a heavier bike. I wouldn't recommend it, but it's an option. You can get the same amount of exercise with the ebike if you pedal as intensely as you normally you, you'll just go faster and further.
You can also get a different kind of device like a Pikaboost. It seems like the best of all the worlds, and I backed it on Kickstarter, but I don't like it. It's underpowered, and it adds friction for the regenerative capabilities. That means you don't end up going as fast downhill, and it doesn't help you get uphill as easily. It IS easy to pop on and off, but given a choice, I usually choose to ride without it.
If I did a front tire conversion with the wheel fully replaced, would that be pretty simple to then remove and swap back to make it a regular bike again? I can pop the front wheel off fairly...
If I did a front tire conversion with the wheel fully replaced, would that be pretty simple to then remove and swap back to make it a regular bike again? I can pop the front wheel off fairly quickly if I’m putting my bike in my car, but I don’t know if any components make this more difficult. Apologies if this is a dumb question; I know next to nothing about e-bikes!
Not a dumb question. Lots of regular bikes have that quick-release lever to pop the front tire on/off but an e-bike wheel requires a socket wrench. That's because there's a wing nut that needs to...
Not a dumb question. Lots of regular bikes have that quick-release lever to pop the front tire on/off but an e-bike wheel requires a socket wrench. That's because there's a wing nut that needs to securely slide into your fork in order for it to provide torque when to spin. In practice I never really removed the e-bike wheel.
If a comprehensive learning resource would help, I’ve found that Grin Motors has some excellent docs. It’s quite a read, but it covers basically everything you would want to know.
If a comprehensive learning resource would help, I’ve found that Grin Motors has some excellent docs. It’s quite a read, but it covers basically everything you would want to know.
This winter we got an Urban Arrow rather than buying a second car. We specifically went for the UA because you can buy an infant carseat adapter to put in the front bucket, and still have another older kid sit in the bucket as well-- requirements for our family at this point. I have to get to bed so I'm just going to pound out some quick points:
I've been thinking about an e-bike, the only problem is my work is easily 45minutes by car. But, I love bike riding, and after my lungs collapsed two years ago so I tend to have a problem with doing so for extended amount of time - this post might push me to finally bite the bullet (pull the trigger? why are they both gun metaphors? is this universal, or just an americanism?) and get one, or as you did, convert my bike that is just sitting there, dreaming of a day to be useful again.
Aside: Love that you link your tildes in your footer-bio, might do the same for my website refresh I am working on.
You could always take the plunge instead?
Depending on how much of that commute is on city streets, an ebike could possibly make that trip in a similar time. Especially in areas with lots of stop signs and lights, the higher top speed of a car makes little difference. It doesn't matter if the car could go 90 mph if it has to stop every tenth of a mile because of traffic.
In some areas an ebike might also bring up the possibility of using public transit you would not normally have access to, like busses and trains, which can speed up the trip.
Glad you liked it! Real talk: I have a spare e-bike kit just sitting in the garage, the one I mentioned in the article. I was planning to sell it on Craigslist when the weather gets nicer, but if you're willing to pay for shipping, it's yours. The only thing is the power button is a little finicky, but once it's depressed it stays on and works great.
I have worked in the bicycle industry for a long time, so I guess now is a good time to throw out my PSA on ebike buying for OP and anyone else here interested. I hope I don't come off as overly negative, or a "bike snob", but hear me out.
"Bargain" ebikes from Amazon, Costco, and many Chinese direct-to-consumer bands are, more often than not, e-waste waiting to happen. Margins are extremely slim even for even the biggest manufacturers, so when you see a bike with a huge motor and all the bells and whistles for less than anywhere else you can be assured that corners were cut somewhere. Component selection, quality control, and customer service are where I see most of these bikes suffer.
You will likely need to assemble and maybe maintain the bike yourself. If it comes pre-assembled from a store that doesn't have a dedicated bicycle service department, I can almost guarantee that it is assembled poorly. If you aren't comfortable working on a bike, consider if you want your first attempt to be assembling a vehicle that can easily go almost 30 miles an hour with you on it. Flats on a rear wheel motor can be a challenging repair that a lot of people don't expect. If you have electrical issues, don't be surprised if your local bike shop doesn't want to work on it. They probably have been burnt by bikes of poor quality, repairability and difficult to find replacement parts. You might get burnt by the same things, although I hope not.
There are good brands and bike shops that sell quality ebikes for little more all things considered. If price is a concern, look for brands like Aventon or Velotric that have a dealer network in addition to direct sales. If they have managed to keep retailers and service centers on board, it is an indication that they are of decent quality and are able to be repaired easily and in a timely manner. They still keep competitive prices and know how to cater to new and casual riders. If you have a dealer nearby, you can test ride different models, get professional advice, and go home with a fully assembled bike with a service guarantee. Ebikes made by the big brands from the traditional bike world like Specialized, Trek, Cannondale, Giant, etc. are all high quality and ride the best in my opinion, but I understand that they are out of a lot of people's price range.
Finally, don't get caught up in the arms race of high wattage motors. The odds of you needing more than 500w of power are very low. High power ebikes are often needless heavy, accelerate dangerously fast, or both. Fat tire ebikes with 750-1000w motors can easily weigh 80 pounds, which can be a challenge to transport and work on. Especially if you're commuting, get something that is light enough to pick up over a curb or maneuver through a door. The bicycle is already an incredibly efficient machine, it doesn't take much extra power to go quickly and easily.
This seems to loop back to the same problem i've always had, which is that due to the extreme weather and bad layout of the city here, there's not a whole lot of inbetween bike shops.
You're either not on a bike, or you're the sort of person who does the 12 mile mountain scenic loop every week despite the 110 degree weather.
So if i'm someone who would just like to be able to bike to places that are 4-8 city miles away, but brutally uphill going back, what do I even start with?
I don't need something fast for sure, hell I'd love something that is nearly a normal everyday bike EXCEPT I don't die on the hill going back (the whole city slants west to east), but even if I WANT to spend and get something reliable for that price point, what are my options?
E-bike conversion kit
I actually bought that Costco bike they’ve got pictured. It’s fairly decent and a good value. I got it at the local warehouse and didn’t pay as much as the picture. They may still be running a promo to get a free front basket when you register the bike. I had a whole mess trying to do it because their zendesk setup messes up on email alias setups, but I got it and I really love the aesthetics of it.
It’s got a nice high capacity battery and a fairly beefy motor (AFAIK if it were any more powerful you’d need a license to drive it) but the rest of the components are just okay. Not cheap or bad. I do appreciate that it has standard name brand components and the braking system is hydraulic. The only thing I don’t particularly agree with it is that the tires that come with it are knobby and are not a great match for it. It’s a cargo bike. It should have smooth tires for streets.
I'm so excited you got that bike! I'm seriously tempted to pull the trigger on it because I also love its aesthetic. When you say the rest of the components are just OK, do you mean they're like too heavy? Does it creak/groan when you're riding it? Does it feel like a couple good bumps would knock stuff out of alignment? I have that large cargo bike from the article and while I really like it overall, it feels kinda cheap sometimes and whenever I get a new bike, I don't want it to feel cheap
I wouldn’t say anything feels particularly cheap. I don’t really have a lot of experience with bikes so I am not well equipped to compare but I do watch a lot of Berm Peak and I can tell that nothing on the bike is spectacularly expensive except the battery. The only possible exception is the display, but that’s nothing. I will add that I found the saddle uncomfortable but I think it will work well for most people. Another small gripe is that it included a derailleur protector but the manual had no reference for it so I had no idea what it was for quite some time.
Do keep in mind though that it is a big heavy bike. The battery alone adds what feels like 20 pounds. This is all good for me because I’m a big guy and needed something super strong to hold me. It may not be exactly what you’re looking for though. It also comes only partially assembled so while stuff has been knocked out of alignment on my bike, it’s almost certainly all my fault.
Hmm, OK maybe I should save a little more for a different bike. That hard part is finding one before the price:quality curve starts leveling off. Hopefully I can find one that still looks as cool as yours
Tbh commuter pedal assist ebikes feel like a weird hack to deal with overly stringent regulation in the west. Like, if you already have a vehicle with two wheels, and an electric motor strapped to the back wheel, what is the value in making the motor activate when you spin a wheel with your foot, rather than... a throttle?
Imagine if we had pedal assist cars.
For a practical vehicle to get from point A to B, the only value ebikes have over electric mopeds is that because they're technically "bicycles", regulation is laxer - you don't need a motorcycle license or to register it as a motor vehicle. I feel like regulations on low power mopeds should be laxer instead - there's no reason an ebike with a motor that tops at 20-25 mph should have lower regulations than a moped that tops out at 20-25mph.
A lot of people illegally modify their ebikes to have throttles anyway, it just makes it less accessible to wider buying public.
I see your point generally, but I guess one practical response is: if your battery dies you can still pedal it. It'd be harder, but still functional.
Also I think mopeds have to meet a minimum standard for lights, blinkers, etc. Bikes don't necessarily need all that.
Exactly the issue. Either low speed mopeds shouldn’t have to meet those requirements or e-bikes should.
I have a pedal assist bike. Some of us like to pedal and work out, even if it's "cheating" in some way.
Ehhh they do have some offroad/other capabilities that I think make them distinct. I get that ultimately there's a ton of overlap and a lot of stupidity due to regulations and the like, but at the end of the day I think an EBike is going to be a little more multipurpose than a moped, and I believe generally going to have a lower top speed.
In general I still think bike paths and the like are the way to go for city infrastructure, rather than pretending bikes should share space with traffic, and in those scenarios i think there's small advantages to a bike vs a moped.
I think you’re still imagining a moped as like a motorcycle-lite, but take this scenario as an hypothetical.
Scenario A: a normal pedal assist ebike
Scenario B: the same bike from scenario A, but modified with a throttle clipped to the handlebars that’s wired to the electric motor (something that’s already a very easy mod anyone can do today, and many people do do today)
Scenario B is a “moped” legally - it has to be registered with the DMV, and you need a motorcycle license.
But is there any actual situation in which scenario A would be safe to ride somewhere, but B isn’t? Are you unable to commit negligence when burning a token amount of carbs or something?
I’d argue that B is what most consumers who want to use an ebike as a practical A to B machine want (and hence why many people illegally mod their e-bikes to become).
That really depends on where you live. Most of the US uses a class system, and having a throttle on a class 1 e-bike simply moves it into class 2; class 3 is for bikes that can go more than 20 mph under motor power.
What that actually means varies a lot depending on where you live. Here in California you don’t need license or insurance for classes 1 and 2, and you can still use bike trails and lanes. Class 3 means you can only use bike lanes that are part of streets but still don’t need license or registration.
But that is still just state law. Counties and cities can and often do put other restrictions on the books.
As noted by @mattsayar, you can still pedal an assisted bike if it dies. In fact, I have a 112lb cargo ebike yet only use the lowest assist level about 20% of the time, and otherwise not at all. I use the assist up hills, or if i'm directly into the wind (it's got a big bucket on the front), or if I'm at a busy traffic light and think I'll need some oomph to get off the line.
Otherwise, I just get that inertia and it's easy to maintain the speed with no assist at all. It's one of the unexpected parts of the ebike purchase, for me, that the advertised "range" doesn't really matter at all, because I'm not using the battery most of the time. The other unexpected bonus is that I can put a muddy kid in the front bucket after school without worrying about the car backseat getting dirty like all the other parents at pickup.
Who says you can’t pedal a moped?
There are peddle assist cars! Look into the Twike!
Agreed that the regulations around similar speed vehicles should be the same, but I disagree that pedal assist is a hack! There were some studies floating around recently (here’s the first review that I could find on Google) that indicate people still get some exercise from using an ebike (at least as much as walking), so in practice they’re not just spinning the pedals around with no force.
That modest amount of moderate exercise every day is what is being recommended for reducing mortality rates in developed countries — getting some exercise in during your commute is genuinely an excellent intervention for many, many people (in Canada and the US), which is not something that you’ll necessarily get from pulling a throttle on your motorcycle/scooter (although ideally we’d have studies confirming that).
Did not know that costco sold them. That might finally help me get around the decision paralysis. The whole market feels rough to get into when its a $1000+ device and so much of the information feels like overkill (at least when i've looked into it).
Living in a city that gets easily into the 110F range I want to make sure it's something I get worth out of when the weather is less brutal.
Edit- Reviews on the site have a bit concerned though. Seems like magnum support/quality might be less than stellar.
Edit 2-
What kills me about ebike reviews, or at least the ones I can find, is there's a lack of "x months later" stuff. Yeah i get it, the thing works out of the box and has neat features. It's $1000's and not something I can fix easily, and has the usual mix of reviews complaining about quality. Does it still work? (ok they exist but they don't seem to be the standard, which drives me crazy).
I’ve never figured out how someone feels comfortable leaving any bike outside at the grocery store. My only adult bike was stolen off my front porch, they just cut the lock. I realize that someone is less likely to wander around a grocery store parking lot with bolt cutters , but the locks are so easy to pop!
Are e-bikes different because of the extra weight and maybe something like a key? Or is my issue more of a matter of being involved in locksport?
Your front porch probably has less foot traffic than in front of the grocery store, which makes bike theft via cutting the lock less risky. Bike theft also varies a lot regionally, and is understandably proportional to how popular and useful transit by bike is in an area (bike thieves dedicated enough to cut locks usually want to resell the bikes, after all). And the fanciness of both the neighborhood/building and the bike can play a factor. My apartment complex has been a target in the past bc it's a new building and the parking garage is full of fancy-ass cars, which is basically a neon sign to thieves that they'll get their money's worth.
Both the weight of the bike and the annoying-ness of the lock can contribute to making a bike too time-consuming to steal for thieves. My ex-wife's 6000€ Urban Arrow survived bike thieves gaining access to our apartment building's bike room because it's both quite heavy to move on its own and has a Dutch frame lock (and when the lock is built into the frame, naturally you can't cut it off). Time is money even for thieves.
E-bikes are actually bigger targets since they’re more expensive. In urban areas you often have to pop the battery out and carry it with you just because it’s so easy and valuable to steal e-bike batteries that it’s a matter of fact that it will be stolen. Even aside from that, e-bike frames tend to be more expensive.
In practice, it just depends on where you live. Places with less social disorder you can be more lax.
The better e-bikes have the batteries locked in place for exactly that reason. With an integrated lock there's no real route to easy theft, and I've parked my e-bike on curbside racks hundreds of times. I have had my water bottles stolen a couple of times, but nothing else.
I bought a heavy duty bike lock chain. I mean heavy duty; it weighs 7.4lbs. I paid Kryptonite, the lock manufacturer, something like $100 for insurance, so if the bike gets stolen (and it was locked up!), they'll reimburse me for the bike. Never had to deal with that, and I expect it wouldn't be smooth if I did, but it brings me peace of mind.
If you pick up an electric Brompton folding bike, you can fold it up while using its front bag to hold your groceries (example, although I push my bike from the seat instead of the handlebars for extra stability). Plus, it’s small enough to fit into every any apartment or apartment elevator I’ve come across, and even restaurants have been OK with my pushing it under the table (with one exception, but they were good with keeping it by the umbrella stand).
They’re reaaalllly expensive bikes for what they are, but it effectively drops the odds of having it stolen to zero.
I have a Tern GSD, and in addition to the regular U lock to lock it to the rack, it also has an integrated "cafe lock" which immobilzes the front wheel. Even if they did cut the U lock, they'd still have to pick up and carry away the bike. I've never been worried that someone would try it. They'd need a truck.
Does anyone have experience with a conversion? My expectation is they’re less efficient than standard e-bikes, but I’m less concerned about that. I like the idea of not buying a second bike, but I like using my bike for exercise and I worry if I wanted to do that (i.e. not use the assist) the extra weight would be burdensome. I also assume they’re not super quick to pop on and off. Anyone have any advice or thoughts on this?
They're not super quick to pop on and off; it's a total wheel replacement. The ebike wheel + battery adds ~20lbs which is indeed burdensome. I've lost power going uphill before and it was a bear to get to the top. I made sure to keep my battery topped off after that.
You can pop off the battery pretty easily and ride with just the ebike wheel. It doesn't add friction so it's just like riding a heavier bike. I wouldn't recommend it, but it's an option. You can get the same amount of exercise with the ebike if you pedal as intensely as you normally you, you'll just go faster and further.
You can also get a different kind of device like a Pikaboost. It seems like the best of all the worlds, and I backed it on Kickstarter, but I don't like it. It's underpowered, and it adds friction for the regenerative capabilities. That means you don't end up going as fast downhill, and it doesn't help you get uphill as easily. It IS easy to pop on and off, but given a choice, I usually choose to ride without it.
If I did a front tire conversion with the wheel fully replaced, would that be pretty simple to then remove and swap back to make it a regular bike again? I can pop the front wheel off fairly quickly if I’m putting my bike in my car, but I don’t know if any components make this more difficult. Apologies if this is a dumb question; I know next to nothing about e-bikes!
Not a dumb question. Lots of regular bikes have that quick-release lever to pop the front tire on/off but an e-bike wheel requires a socket wrench. That's because there's a wing nut that needs to securely slide into your fork in order for it to provide torque when to spin. In practice I never really removed the e-bike wheel.
If a comprehensive learning resource would help, I’ve found that Grin Motors has some excellent docs. It’s quite a read, but it covers basically everything you would want to know.