We’ll partner with SFO to prepare our operations at the airport in phases, beginning with employee testing soon ahead of welcoming Bay Area riders. Pickups and dropoffs will initially start at SFO’s Kiss & Fly area – a short AirTrain ride from the terminals – with the intention to explore other locations at the airport in the future.
[...] With years of experience serving riders at Phoenix Sky Harbor (PHX) and operations beginning soon at San Jose Mineta International Airport (SJC), we’re accelerating our efforts to serve more airports in more cities as we scale.
Great news, but having to take the AirTrain is a bummer? I’ve been so excited for airport Waymo but I don’t think it’s worth going that out of my way for it. I’ll definitely use it when they get...
Great news, but having to take the AirTrain is a bummer? I’ve been so excited for airport Waymo but I don’t think it’s worth going that out of my way for it. I’ll definitely use it when they get it to the normal rideshare pickup area
They did something similar at the Phoenix airport at first. I imagine it’s either Waymo or the airport being conservative about their impact on traffic.
They did something similar at the Phoenix airport at first. I imagine it’s either Waymo or the airport being conservative about their impact on traffic.
Probably just a 1st step to make sure there's nothing terrible is going to happen. Plus I imagine Uber/Lyft lobby pretty hard to keep Waymo out of their turf.
Probably just a 1st step to make sure there's nothing terrible is going to happen. Plus I imagine Uber/Lyft lobby pretty hard to keep Waymo out of their turf.
Kinda conflicted feelings about this. Mass transit should be a better option than having more (even robotic, electric) cars on the road. But perhaps this is realistically how we will get mass...
Kinda conflicted feelings about this. Mass transit should be a better option than having more (even robotic, electric) cars on the road. But perhaps this is realistically how we will get mass transit: a massive fleet of individualized spaces that bridge the last mile every time, as opposed to half billion dollar capital projects that get most people to where nearly none of them wanted to go.
I’m hoping they’re more complementary than opposed. What if those enormous parking lots around some BART stations didn’t need to be so big? It seems like they could build a lot of housing and...
I’m hoping they’re more complementary than opposed. What if those enormous parking lots around some BART stations didn’t need to be so big? It seems like they could build a lot of housing and retail there.
They've been slowly doing so at some BART stations. Dublin/Pleasanton comes to mind but they also just built a massive new parking garage alongside the new housing directly outside the station.
They've been slowly doing so at some BART stations. Dublin/Pleasanton comes to mind but they also just built a massive new parking garage alongside the new housing directly outside the station.
I hope so! That’s what Milbrae station did. It helped that they already had a parking structure but cool to see there are apartments, shops, and a hotel whereas before it was just superfluous parking.
I hope so! That’s what Milbrae station did. It helped that they already had a parking structure but cool to see there are apartments, shops, and a hotel whereas before it was just superfluous parking.
I have mixed feelings about eliminating parking around BART stations. I think transit oriented development is great, but many non-central BART stations serve car dependent suburbs. If you...
I have mixed feelings about eliminating parking around BART stations. I think transit oriented development is great, but many non-central BART stations serve car dependent suburbs. If you eliminate parking, many would be riders will end up driving to work instead of parking at BART and riding to work.
Transit oriented development is great, but you have to consider the alternative transportation methods for the communities each station serves.
So far none of the BART station developments have eliminated parking spots. The first stage of development has always been putting in a parking garage sufficient to replace all of the flat parking...
So far none of the BART station developments have eliminated parking spots. The first stage of development has always been putting in a parking garage sufficient to replace all of the flat parking lot area so that people can still park there during the development of the rest of the area.
It’s like $10 for me to bart home from SFO, but looks like it’s around $50 to take a Waymo. A good deal if you’re with 2-3 other people, but a little tougher to justify otherwise. But I live a...
It’s like $10 for me to bart home from SFO, but looks like it’s around $50 to take a Waymo. A good deal if you’re with 2-3 other people, but a little tougher to justify otherwise. But I live a couple blocks from a station so that makes bart an easier choice.
If your destination isn't close to a station I can't imagine its fun to haul a bunch of luggage on the train, then off the train, then into an uber to get there. I usually pack light, but I know...
If your destination isn't close to a station I can't imagine its fun to haul a bunch of luggage on the train, then off the train, then into an uber to get there. I usually pack light, but I know lots of people who bring 2-3 suitcases plus extra bags with them when they travel, and they certainly aren't going to do all that.
I mean, to me, it seems that you can always take a taxi/uber/waymo for the bit from the station to your home. Granted, this is from a non US perspective. But it is how I have done it in the past...
I mean, to me, it seems that you can always take a taxi/uber/waymo for the bit from the station to your home. Granted, this is from a non US perspective. But it is how I have done it in the past as well.
Sure, you definitely could do that, but I want to think about what that might actually entail: You arrive at the airport after a long flight, you're mentally and physically tired (probably doesn't...
Sure, you definitely could do that, but I want to think about what that might actually entail:
You arrive at the airport after a long flight, you're mentally and physically tired (probably doesn't apply to a lot of people, but I definitely am like this after being on a plane for 5+ hours, especially if you had 1 or more connections)
You need to go to baggage claim to get your luggage, let's say you brought 2 full sized suitcases, a purse/satchel, and a garment bag. (I personally don't bring a lot of luggage, but this seems to be representative of a lot of folks I know, especially if you're staying for more than a few days for a business trip or a wedding.) I'm not intimately familiar with SFO but at most airports this means a decent amount of walking dragging around your carry on. Once you get your luggage from bag claim, you need to get to a BART station, this means you have to haul your full luggage load to the nearest Air train station and catch that to the BART station. After that you need to transfer from the Air Train to the BART train, and if its crowded it'll be a hassle to bring your multiple bags on and off the train. (Some people may actually struggle to lift their luggage, this could be problematic if you have multiple heavy bags.)
The BART train only has 2 lines at SFO so you may even have to make transfer to another line to get to Oakland, which can be stressful if your not familiar with the train lines, I've definitely missed a transfer before because of this (could add up to 20 minutes to your ride.) Once you arrive at your station, you have to order an Uber/Lyft to come pick you up at the station, this could be another 20+ minute wait depending on what tier of car you order and how busy it is. You then have to pick up your luggage and put it in the trunk or the back seat (sometimes the driver will help you with this, but not always)
You then can drive to your final destination, get your luggage out again, and finally be able to go to your hotel/airbnb/etc. This whole thing probably took north of 1-2 hours and a lot of walking around with heavy luggage. You probably spent something like $15~ for the BART ticket and another 15-20 bucks for the Uber depending on how much you tip.
Ok so obviously that's not terrible, but its also not great and can be a pretty miserable experience for someone who is already stressed out by travel. If you're physically not very strong it could also be pretty exhausting for you as well, walking a long distance while carrying bags.
Now here's the alternative (let's assume Waymo is allowed to pick you up directly from the airport in this hypothetical, much like Uber/Lyft):
You go through steps 1 and 2, getting your luggage out of baggage claim. You make your way from baggage claim to the nearest rideshare pickup location (this may or may not require you to get on the Airtrain) You get into a waiting Waymo car with your luggage, you direct it to your destination, you sit in the car on your phone for 30-60 minutes. You then exit the car, grab your luggage, and you're at your destination. Estimated fare price right now for Waymo is between 40-65 bucks for a 10-25 mile drive through the city.
You probably saved over an hour of time and a lot of walking/hauling your luggage for maybe 20-30 dollars in savings? That may be worth it to some people, but for a lot of people (especially those who are arriving at SF) it probably very much isn't worth it.
(Disclaimer: I've only flown into SF once so my experience is very limited, I'm basing this mostly off my experience traveling to cities like LA and Boston which have similar train networks that I've used before. If I'm wildly off my estimations feel free to correct me, its mostly just a thought exercise on why taking BART may not be that good of an experience for someone with a lot of luggage.)
Neither have I flown into SF, it is why I mentioned it is from a non US perspective. Your points seem fair to me, certainly when you include a lot of transfers, which I admittedly did not. I can...
I've only flown into SF once so my experience is very limited, I'm basing this mostly off my experience traveling to cities like LA and Boston which have similar train networks that I've used before. If I'm wildly off my estimations feel free to correct me, its mostly just a thought exercise on why taking BART may not be that good of an experience for someone with a lot of luggage.
Neither have I flown into SF, it is why I mentioned it is from a non US perspective. Your points seem fair to me, certainly when you include a lot of transfers, which I admittedly did not. I can get a direct train to Amsterdam's airport and that station is right under it. Flying to other European cities largely has been a similar experience, where there is connected rail directly to the airport.
As far as Amsterdam is involved, taking the train might be faster depending on the time of day as well.
SFO has one of the best plane to train transfers I have seen at a US airport, and it is exactly as the parent commenter described. I think they were underselling public transit a bit, but not...
SFO has one of the best plane to train transfers I have seen at a US airport, and it is exactly as the parent commenter described. I think they were underselling public transit a bit, but not much. SFO has a bidirectional train loop with trains every two minutes or so between the various terminals and the parking lots. BART gets a train station attached to this train loop. The only way to bypass that train loop is to be picked up by someone. So that leg of the journey is also required if you park or rent a car. BART itself is more like a RER or S-bahn than a metro. Think like the Paris RER, but the metro doesn’t exist, so if you aren’t near an RER station you have to walk or taxi.
Following their recent approval at San Jose airport.
Great news, but having to take the AirTrain is a bummer? I’ve been so excited for airport Waymo but I don’t think it’s worth going that out of my way for it. I’ll definitely use it when they get it to the normal rideshare pickup area
They did something similar at the Phoenix airport at first. I imagine it’s either Waymo or the airport being conservative about their impact on traffic.
Probably just a 1st step to make sure there's nothing terrible is going to happen. Plus I imagine Uber/Lyft lobby pretty hard to keep Waymo out of their turf.
BART is surprisingly expensive, so this will be a nice alternative!
Kinda conflicted feelings about this. Mass transit should be a better option than having more (even robotic, electric) cars on the road. But perhaps this is realistically how we will get mass transit: a massive fleet of individualized spaces that bridge the last mile every time, as opposed to half billion dollar capital projects that get most people to where nearly none of them wanted to go.
I’m hoping they’re more complementary than opposed. What if those enormous parking lots around some BART stations didn’t need to be so big? It seems like they could build a lot of housing and retail there.
They've been slowly doing so at some BART stations. Dublin/Pleasanton comes to mind but they also just built a massive new parking garage alongside the new housing directly outside the station.
I hope so! That’s what Milbrae station did. It helped that they already had a parking structure but cool to see there are apartments, shops, and a hotel whereas before it was just superfluous parking.
I have mixed feelings about eliminating parking around BART stations. I think transit oriented development is great, but many non-central BART stations serve car dependent suburbs. If you eliminate parking, many would be riders will end up driving to work instead of parking at BART and riding to work.
Transit oriented development is great, but you have to consider the alternative transportation methods for the communities each station serves.
Yeah, I really meant after driverless cars become available and prices come down (assuming they ever do).
So far none of the BART station developments have eliminated parking spots. The first stage of development has always been putting in a parking garage sufficient to replace all of the flat parking lot area so that people can still park there during the development of the rest of the area.
If the parking lots aren't at 100% capacity, it makes sense to repurpose the land for more productive uses that better serve the community imo.
It’s like $10 for me to bart home from SFO, but looks like it’s around $50 to take a Waymo. A good deal if you’re with 2-3 other people, but a little tougher to justify otherwise. But I live a couple blocks from a station so that makes bart an easier choice.
If your destination isn't close to a station I can't imagine its fun to haul a bunch of luggage on the train, then off the train, then into an uber to get there. I usually pack light, but I know lots of people who bring 2-3 suitcases plus extra bags with them when they travel, and they certainly aren't going to do all that.
I mean, to me, it seems that you can always take a taxi/uber/waymo for the bit from the station to your home. Granted, this is from a non US perspective. But it is how I have done it in the past as well.
Sure, you definitely could do that, but I want to think about what that might actually entail:
You arrive at the airport after a long flight, you're mentally and physically tired (probably doesn't apply to a lot of people, but I definitely am like this after being on a plane for 5+ hours, especially if you had 1 or more connections)
You need to go to baggage claim to get your luggage, let's say you brought 2 full sized suitcases, a purse/satchel, and a garment bag. (I personally don't bring a lot of luggage, but this seems to be representative of a lot of folks I know, especially if you're staying for more than a few days for a business trip or a wedding.) I'm not intimately familiar with SFO but at most airports this means a decent amount of walking dragging around your carry on. Once you get your luggage from bag claim, you need to get to a BART station, this means you have to haul your full luggage load to the nearest Air train station and catch that to the BART station. After that you need to transfer from the Air Train to the BART train, and if its crowded it'll be a hassle to bring your multiple bags on and off the train. (Some people may actually struggle to lift their luggage, this could be problematic if you have multiple heavy bags.)
The BART train only has 2 lines at SFO so you may even have to make transfer to another line to get to Oakland, which can be stressful if your not familiar with the train lines, I've definitely missed a transfer before because of this (could add up to 20 minutes to your ride.) Once you arrive at your station, you have to order an Uber/Lyft to come pick you up at the station, this could be another 20+ minute wait depending on what tier of car you order and how busy it is. You then have to pick up your luggage and put it in the trunk or the back seat (sometimes the driver will help you with this, but not always)
You then can drive to your final destination, get your luggage out again, and finally be able to go to your hotel/airbnb/etc. This whole thing probably took north of 1-2 hours and a lot of walking around with heavy luggage. You probably spent something like $15~ for the BART ticket and another 15-20 bucks for the Uber depending on how much you tip.
Ok so obviously that's not terrible, but its also not great and can be a pretty miserable experience for someone who is already stressed out by travel. If you're physically not very strong it could also be pretty exhausting for you as well, walking a long distance while carrying bags.
Now here's the alternative (let's assume Waymo is allowed to pick you up directly from the airport in this hypothetical, much like Uber/Lyft):
You go through steps 1 and 2, getting your luggage out of baggage claim. You make your way from baggage claim to the nearest rideshare pickup location (this may or may not require you to get on the Airtrain) You get into a waiting Waymo car with your luggage, you direct it to your destination, you sit in the car on your phone for 30-60 minutes. You then exit the car, grab your luggage, and you're at your destination. Estimated fare price right now for Waymo is between 40-65 bucks for a 10-25 mile drive through the city.
You probably saved over an hour of time and a lot of walking/hauling your luggage for maybe 20-30 dollars in savings? That may be worth it to some people, but for a lot of people (especially those who are arriving at SF) it probably very much isn't worth it.
(Disclaimer: I've only flown into SF once so my experience is very limited, I'm basing this mostly off my experience traveling to cities like LA and Boston which have similar train networks that I've used before. If I'm wildly off my estimations feel free to correct me, its mostly just a thought exercise on why taking BART may not be that good of an experience for someone with a lot of luggage.)
Neither have I flown into SF, it is why I mentioned it is from a non US perspective. Your points seem fair to me, certainly when you include a lot of transfers, which I admittedly did not. I can get a direct train to Amsterdam's airport and that station is right under it. Flying to other European cities largely has been a similar experience, where there is connected rail directly to the airport.
As far as Amsterdam is involved, taking the train might be faster depending on the time of day as well.
So that might have colored my perspective a bit.
SFO has one of the best plane to train transfers I have seen at a US airport, and it is exactly as the parent commenter described. I think they were underselling public transit a bit, but not much. SFO has a bidirectional train loop with trains every two minutes or so between the various terminals and the parking lots. BART gets a train station attached to this train loop. The only way to bypass that train loop is to be picked up by someone. So that leg of the journey is also required if you park or rent a car. BART itself is more like a RER or S-bahn than a metro. Think like the Paris RER, but the metro doesn’t exist, so if you aren’t near an RER station you have to walk or taxi.
It is nothing compared to most European airports.