29 votes

Game of Thrones petition: 500,000 demand series eight remake

31 comments

  1. [30]
    Amarok
    Link
    This thrones debacle is starting to reach never before seen levels of hilarity. It'll be far, far worse starting on Monday, though. This is still just the pregame. Everyone still defending the...

    This thrones debacle is starting to reach never before seen levels of hilarity. It'll be far, far worse starting on Monday, though. This is still just the pregame. Everyone still defending the plot is in for a rough conversation around the water cooler next week. So far I've seen exactly one theory left standing that could pull it (barely) out of this nosedive and still match up with the leaks, and it's too clever for the writers.

    I can't imagine HBO doing a remake. All of the contracts with the actors have run their course and they are moving on to real acting roles. Hiring them back would cost a fortune even if most of them wouldn't tell HBO to pound sand. The only option HBO has left is damage control. Expect a round of paid-for shilling articles in a few months asking the question 'was game of thrones' final season really that bad' in the vein of that massive PR campaign Disney ran for years trying to soften the blow of the star wars prequels. They'll follow that up with 'thrones prequel/spinoff not to make the same mistakes as its predecessor.'

    I want to know how low HBO's subscription numbers go over this, and I want to know how far they fall short on Thrones Blu-Ray sales. They are in for a rough time when the dust settles. I can't remember HBO ever allowing a fuck-up like this on their watch before.

    29 votes
    1. [14]
      CALICO
      Link Parent
      Writing is not that hard. Dave and D.B. Weiss have proven themselves to be absolutely shit writers. The plot structure of last episode could have stayed largely the same, but respect the stories...

      Writing is not that hard.
      Dave and D.B. Weiss have proven themselves to be absolutely shit writers.

      The plot structure of last episode could have stayed largely the same, but respect the stories of the characters with a few minor changes. If you aren't current on the released season, spoilers below.

      Cersei doesn't spend the entire season staring stoically out a balcony. Instead she spends it sending out henchmen to find every cache of wildfire in King's Landing. She fortifies the city.

      Dany doesn't somehow miss the entire Iron Fleet. She's kept at distance by the Scorpions, and is forced to watch as her fleet gets demolished while being powerless to do anything. In a last ditch mad effort to cause some damage, she dives towards the Iron Fleet with Dragon and Rhaegal. Now Rhaegal can be killed. Dany loses her mind at the death of her second dragon, and is forced to retreat. We have an emotional scene with Dany choking and sobbing and swearing vengeance on Cersei with Fire & Blood. Missandei can still be captured.

      Dany demands Cersei surrender in a largely unchanged scene. Dany is staring daggers the whole time, and it's clear she's been crying. Red eyes, puffy, a little unkempt. Cersei executes Missandei with wildfire, with a villianous speech explaining the source of her wildfire (Dany's dad), and how all of King's Landing is now held hostage by it. The Breaker of Chains can free the city, if she dares.

      Missandei's death has pushed Dany further to the edge. Dany's heartbreak and frustration at the futility of taking King's Landing causes her to lock herself up in her room at Dragonstone for a while. Her soldiers start talking, apprehensive of her mental condition. Varys does his scheming what with Jon being the rightful King and all. Word begins to spread of Jon's identity. Dany catches wind of this, asserts Varys is trying to usurp her rightful place as Queen, executes by wildfire. Jon is deeply disturbed by how Dany is handling literally everything.

      Jaime left Winterfell and Brienne for better reasons than ignoring 7 seasons of character growth, and has been trying to convince Dany that Cersei just might do it. She only cares about herself, she blew up the Sept, etc etc. Dany has decided that Cersei is bluffing, and won't kill the smallfolk just to save herself. Jaime decides to break into King's Landing to try and convince Cersei to surrender to save the city, because he's not the same person he was in season 1 and cares about big picture things now.

      Dany's army marches on King's Landing, meeting the Golden Company in combat outside the city walls. Her and Drogon are taking on the Iron Fleet, but it's a very tough fight. Euron and his men haven't suddenly forgot how to aim. They mostly keep Dany at distance, but she's more reckless and begins to slowly burn through the Fleet. Euron panics, realizing he won't succed and blows a horn or something.

      Cersei gets the signal, and orders the detonation of a small district of King's Landing. Ser Davos has a scene where he recognizes the area as Flea Bottom, it's very sad. Jaimie sees the explosion from within the walls, and runs towards the Red Keep. Dany goes into a bloodrage at the death of innocents.

      Dany's army is beating back the Golden Company, and Cersei is beginning to break down and panic. Dany is trying to rush the Keep, but the remaining ships in Euron's fleet are keeping her at bay for now.

      Jaime makes it to Cersei, and finds her a hysterical mess. He tries to talk her into surrender, to ring the bells or something, to no avail. Cersei is watching as the last of Euron's fleet burns, Dany and Drogon begin heading towards the Red Keep.

      "Burn them all, " Cersei rasped through silent tears, "burn them all."

      Jaimie is struck dumb. For the second time in his life, he finds himself in the same situation.

      There's shouting from outside. The Dragon Queen's army has finished off the Golden Company and breached the gates.

      Cersei's rasping turned to shouting. "Burn them all!"
      Jaimie unsheathed his sword.

      Jaimie kills Cersei in a scene that parallels his slaying of the Mad King Aerys. His arc comes full circle. The Kingslayer becomes the Queenslayer. The selfish man becomes the selfless man. The man who would cripple a boy for the love of his sister, becomes his sisters killer for his love of others.

      The music swells. His sword plunges into Cersei's back and bursts out her chest. Cersei cries. Jaimie cries. The audience cries. Lena and Nikolaj get awards for their fantastic acting.

      The camera focus shifts from Cersei & Jaimie in the foreground to the balcony in the background. Drogon is visible outside and we hear Dany quietly yell, "Dracarys".

      The dragonfire strikes the Red Keep, bathing Jaimie & Cersei's dying body in flame.
      Green fire bursts forth, shattering the entire Keep. The throne is destroyed in the explosion. Drogon is thrown back from the air pressure and Dany takes a moment to realize what happened. Cersei didn't just place wildfire throughout the city, she set up a cache in the Keep as well in a desperate, final attempt to take out Dany.

      Flaming wreckage arcs across the sky, landing throughout King's Landing, detonating the wildfire Cersei ordered to be placed through the city. Dany watches from above as the city she meant to take begins to erupt in flame and the people she swore to free from tyranny die in the hundreds and thousands every moment.

      Viserion is dead. Rhaegal is dead. Missandei is dead. Jaimie took Cersei's life from her. Cersei took the throne from her. Jon will take her claim as Queen from her. The city she swore to liberate is burning. The people she swore to release from tyranny are dying.

      Her mind shatters.

      Cut to black. Roll credits.

      Very little has changed from a plot standpoint. Dany is down to one dragon, she still goes mad. Cersei, Jaimie, and Euron all still die. Most of King's Landing still dies. Jon is still concerned about Dany ruling.

      But, maybe it all makes a little more sense.

      Also Cleganebowl happens at some point.

      Writing is not hard.

      25 votes
      1. [9]
        mrbig
        Link Parent
        Writer and screenwriter here. This sentence is absurd: writing is hard as fuck.

        Writing is not that hard

        Writer and screenwriter here. This sentence is absurd: writing is hard as fuck.

        34 votes
        1. [5]
          NaraVara
          Link Parent
          Well it’s easy when someone else does all the writing and you can show up at the end to make random line edits that don’t have to take any production considerations into account.

          Well it’s easy when someone else does all the writing and you can show up at the end to make random line edits that don’t have to take any production considerations into account.

          11 votes
          1. [4]
            mrbig
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            That's weak logic: you're just transferring the hardship of writing to another link in the chain, where writing remains hard as fuck.

            That's weak logic: you're just transferring the hardship of writing to another link in the chain, where writing remains hard as fuck.

            2 votes
            1. [3]
              NaraVara
              Link Parent
              That's. . . the joke

              That's. . . the joke

              5 votes
              1. [2]
                mrbig
                Link Parent
                Sorry dude :/

                Sorry dude :/

                3 votes
                1. NaraVara
                  Link Parent
                  And this is why writing is hard. . . everyone reads things differently ;-)

                  And this is why writing is hard. . . everyone reads things differently ;-)

                  2 votes
        2. [2]
          CALICO
          Link Parent
          I'd argue that it's moreso just work. A lot of work. It's a drudge where most of your effort goes unnoticed if you do a good job, but can easily stick out if you do a poor job. The human stories...

          I'd argue that it's moreso just work. A lot of work. It's a drudge where most of your effort goes unnoticed if you do a good job, but can easily stick out if you do a poor job.
          The human stories we tell each other are largely unchanged for thousands of years. We like things in a predictable enough manner. Vonnegut identified stories by their shapes, and posited there weren't all that many of them. I'm inclined to agree, if only that it makes sense to me. Others may differ in opinion.
          I find that stories, being the characters and what happens to them, how they change and grow and learn, is very easy for me. Plotting, being the things that happen to our characters, is often a little more difficult for me. The hard part, the really hard part, about writing is sitting down and cranking out works by the tens of thousands in a dull slog. That's work.

          Everyone is different, and will vary in competency in different areas. But we're all natural born storytellers, we all know a good story from a bad story. The trick is the learn why something is as good or bad as it is, and to have the patience to spend the thousands of hours crafting our own story.

          Perhaps I was too flippant. Ideas are cheap. The writing it down is the hard part.

          9 votes
          1. mrbig
            Link Parent
            Yep. Story editing can be harder than story writing.

            Yep. Story editing can be harder than story writing.

            4 votes
        3. Staross
          Link Parent
          More like improving D&D script is not hard.

          More like improving D&D script is not hard.

          4 votes
      2. [2]
        Amarok
        Link Parent
        A better treatment, though I'd walk it back to S7 (before the 'capture a wight' plot) to try and recapture so many missed opportunities. ;)

        A better treatment, though I'd walk it back to S7 (before the 'capture a wight' plot) to try and recapture so many missed opportunities. ;)

        7 votes
        1. Deimos
          Link Parent
          I've been thinking about submitting this separately, but maybe I'll just drop it here - it's an interesting Twitter thread talking about why the show feels so different now, and the difference in...

          I've been thinking about submitting this separately, but maybe I'll just drop it here - it's an interesting Twitter thread talking about why the show feels so different now, and the difference in writing styles between "plotters" and "pantsers": https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1125856091261136896.html

          (@CALICO you might be interested too)

          15 votes
      3. [2]
        psi
        Link Parent
        I like your edits, but there are a couple major plot points you're changing: The battle being one-sided. Sure, this may be incompatible with previous episodes, but I fault those episodes, not this...

        I like your edits, but there are a couple major plot points you're changing:

        1. The battle being one-sided. Sure, this may be incompatible with previous episodes, but I fault those episodes, not this one. The dragons are supposed to be overpowered. There's meaning in them being overpowered. Cersei should try to resist, of course (why didn't she use the wildfire?), but the fight isn't supposed to be close (imo). (As a side note, this is my biggest gripe with the way they killed off Rhaegal; it totally undermines this point.)

        2. Dany choosing to destroy King's Landing. The way you've rewritten it, Dany accidentally destroys the city and goes mad after the battle. But then what will cause Jon's change of heart (presuming that happens)? Merely seeing Varys executed? Jon needs to have serious misgivings about this battle and his queen.

        I think of all the episodes this season, this one probably most closely resembles GRRM's vision. If parts of this episode seems incongruent with the other episodes of this season (When did Dany become tyrannical? Why did Rhaegal die so easily?), it's because those earlier episodes didn't do a good job setting up this one. In fact, I'd argue that the reason the first four episodes feel so clumsy is because they're rushed attempts to justify the fifth episode, which is pivotal.

        1 vote
        1. CALICO
          Link Parent
          That's basically my number one gripe with it. In isolation, it was a really incredible piece of television. The problem is that the writers did a piss-poor job of justifying how we got there in...

          If parts of this episode seems incongruent with the other episodes of this season . . . it's because those earlier episodes didn't do a good job setting up this one.

          That's basically my number one gripe with it. In isolation, it was a really incredible piece of television. The problem is that the writers did a piss-poor job of justifying how we got there in the first place. We ignored so much, and wasted time on nonsense, to rush towards the final season. I think D&D just stopped caring at some point, it doesn't feel like their hearts are in it anymore.

          My rewrite was rushed, and has its own problems, but I think I stayed truer to the characters than the show-runners did; Because they are inept (at best), or don't give a shit (at worst). It would take a much longer post to fix the show well enough to justify last weeks episode, long enough to be considered fan-fiction I think.

          I think Dany probably does go Full Aerys in GRRM's vision. But I trust him to justify it at least, if we ever get to read TWOW & ADOS anyway. I absolutely do not believe that Jaime relapses on his character growth without notice to die with Cersei under some rubble. Not for a second do I believe that's what GRRM intends to happen. I fully expect the Valonqar prophecy to come to fruition in some capacity, a subtle one if not an explicit one. It's such a perfect way to complete Jaime's arc and a subversion of Cersei's belief that Tyrion is the valonqar that I can't imagine any writer not doing something a little similar at least.

          On that note, I don't for a second believe that Arya single-handedly ends the Long Night either. Jon needs to be important in some way, shape, or form to justify his resurrection, assuming he's resurrected in the books (he probably is). I also don't believe that the entire reason Melisandre is around at all is to give a pep talk and then immediately die.

          I think if Rhaegal is taken down by Euron, it will probably be with the Dragonbinder horn, or his strange eldritch knowledge, that D&D decided to completely throw in the garbage for some reason.

          I think the Faceless Men are more important than they turned out to be in the show as well.

          HBO was willing D&D as much time and money to do the story proper, and instead they decided to rush to the ending with shortened seasons and an abundance of cut material from even the released novel. I believe Dany will become Dragon-Hitler, but I believe that it will make sense when she eventually does, in canon.

          2 votes
    2. [6]
      Keegan
      Link Parent
      Their subscription numbers are definitely going to drop, but that change may not necessarily be entirely due to outrage. Many of my friends are only subscribed to HBO because of Game of Thrones....

      I want to know how low HBO's subscription numbers go over this, and I want to know how far they fall short on Thrones Blu-Ray sales. They are in for a rough time when the dust settles. I can't remember HBO ever allowing a fuck-up like this on their watch before.

      Their subscription numbers are definitely going to drop, but that change may not necessarily be entirely due to outrage. Many of my friends are only subscribed to HBO because of Game of Thrones. So now that the show is drawing to a close, people will cancel their subscriptions since there is no reason for them to keep the subscription any longer.

      Personally, I would love to see someone at HBO make a survey about the matter and send it out to see why people cancel, but that introduces response bias.

      11 votes
      1. [3]
        Amarok
        Link Parent
        Jesus, the petition is at 682k right now and will probably break a million long before morning. It's now viral, no doubt thanks to the den of trolls over at freefolk on reddit. Watching your...

        Jesus, the petition is at 682k right now and will probably break a million long before morning. It's now viral, no doubt thanks to the den of trolls over at freefolk on reddit.

        Watching your favorite shows crash and burn was never this much fun before the internet. At least we can be thankful for that.

        5 votes
        1. Apos
          Link Parent
          Freefolk makes watching this last season much less painful.

          Freefolk makes watching this last season much less painful.

          8 votes
        2. Keegan
          Link Parent
          Oh I'm very thankful for that. The decline of the show has led to many amazing memes.

          Watching your favorite shows crash and burn was never this much fun before the internet. At least we can be thankful for that.

          Oh I'm very thankful for that. The decline of the show has led to many amazing memes.

          5 votes
      2. [2]
        NaraVara
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Yeah. I intend to watch a few movies and then close my subscription at the end of the next month once GoT is over. The main draw now is to watch the Deadwood movie. I’ll probably renew it once...

        Yeah. I intend to watch a few movies and then close my subscription at the end of the next month once GoT is over. The main draw now is to watch the Deadwood movie.

        I’ll probably renew it once Westworld comes out though. I actually like having HBO a lot, but Crashing and High Maintenance aren’t worth $15 a month for me. Big Little Lies is really good too, but I’ll probably just catch up on it when I renew for Westworld. It doesn’t have as much of a “water cooler” effect so I don’t care about being spoiled.

        The movies are nice as well, but just renting them for $5 a pop from iTunes winds up cheaper than paying HBO for how seldom I get around to watching them.

        4 votes
        1. ras
          Link Parent
          I'm looking forward to Watchmen. I don't think that'll be enough for me to pay $15 a month, though. Probably be watching them off of Usenet.

          I'm looking forward to Watchmen. I don't think that'll be enough for me to pay $15 a month, though. Probably be watching them off of Usenet.

          1 vote
    3. [2]
      weystrom
      Link Parent
      I cannot wait for the r/freefolk top tier memes though.

      It'll be far, far worse starting on Monday, though. This is still just the pregame. Everyone still defending the plot is in for a rough conversation around the water cooler next week.

      I cannot wait for the r/freefolk top tier memes though.

      4 votes
      1. hackergal
        Link Parent
        Honestly the main thing keeping me watching is the memes from that subreddit.

        Honestly the main thing keeping me watching is the memes from that subreddit.

        1 vote
    4. [3]
      emdash
      Link Parent
      Out of curiosity, what's the theory which can recover from the MCAS-quality nosedive?

      Out of curiosity, what's the theory which can recover from the MCAS-quality nosedive?

      1 vote
      1. Amarok
        Link Parent
        We don't have inline spoilers yet so I don't want to post it in text here. I'll link you to a rather bad video that gets the point across. I heard it somewhere in one of nerdrotic's massive...

        We don't have inline spoilers yet so I don't want to post it in text here. I'll link you to a rather bad video that gets the point across. I heard it somewhere in one of nerdrotic's massive livestreams (which I will never be able to find the time index for) after the previous episode and it was given a much better explanation than in that video but the gist is the same.

        If it were true it wouldn't save the series, but at least it wouldn't be as brain-dead as what we're probably going to be getting based on the leaks.

      2. DanBC
        Link Parent
        That they deliberately wrote a lousy last season to give GRRM room to write a great book and to not hobble his sales.

        That they deliberately wrote a lousy last season to give GRRM room to write a great book and to not hobble his sales.

    5. [5]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. [2]
        teaearlgraycold
        Link Parent
        Isn't Deadwood getting a movie soon?

        Isn't Deadwood getting a movie soon?

        1 vote
        1. DevNull
          Link Parent
          May 31st - Here's a link to the trailer Official Deadwood Trailer I've been waiting for a lotta years for it, so I hope it doesn't suck! Wu? Who! Who!

          May 31st - Here's a link to the trailer
          Official Deadwood Trailer
          I've been waiting for a lotta years for it, so I hope it doesn't suck!
          Wu?
          Who! Who!

          3 votes
      2. [2]
        Loire
        Link Parent
        Honestly after this shitshow of a season, if those spoilers are correct I'm not actually too disappointed by it. With the exception of who ends up on the iron throne, it makes sense to each of...

        Honestly after this shitshow of a season, if those spoilers are correct I'm not actually too disappointed by it. With the exception of who ends up on the iron throne, it makes sense to each of their arcs as of this season's developments. It's also moderately true to the overarching theme of ASoIaF.

        They wrote themselves into a hole with no way out. This is the least worst option I can imagine.

        1. Amarok
          Link Parent
          HBO offered to do ten full seasons. The writers weren't in a hole, they were in a hurry to move on and make that star wars money from Disney. Now we have a trainwreck, a dismal star wars future to...

          HBO offered to do ten full seasons. The writers weren't in a hole, they were in a hurry to move on and make that star wars money from Disney. Now we have a trainwreck, a dismal star wars future to look forward to, and memes.

          I blame HBO. If D&D wanted to move on, that should have happened immediately, and new writers brought on to replace them. Let them go on to do whatever they like and find the right people to finish off thrones.

          3 votes
  2. synergy
    Link
    remake it from season 5 and i'm in.

    remake it from season 5 and i'm in.

    4 votes