No shit? I don't feel bad about pirating a show from the wealthiest and most powerful media company in Hollywood. No harm done, money saved. If Disney could earn 5 cents more per year by killing...
No shit? I don't feel bad about pirating a show from the wealthiest and most powerful media company in Hollywood. No harm done, money saved.
If Disney could earn 5 cents more per year by killing my grandma and getting away with it, they probably would.
I find "They are evil and it I don't think it really hurts them" a somewhat flimsy justification for something you probably wouldn't want others to do to you. Maybe it doesn't hurt Disney, but it...
I find "They are evil and it I don't think it really hurts them" a somewhat flimsy justification for something you probably wouldn't want others to do to you.
Maybe it doesn't hurt Disney, but it does hurt the artists who earn residuals off their work on the show.
Yeah, I gladly gave them money because I like what Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni are doing and I want to see more. However, I’m also pretty onboard with corporate cynicism thanks to our increasing...
Yeah, I gladly gave them money because I like what Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni are doing and I want to see more.
However, I’m also pretty onboard with corporate cynicism thanks to our increasing amount of dystopia so yarr on.
Let's put it a different way, Say you're a YouTuber . You make money off people viewing videos on your channel. How would you feel if someone started downloading your content from YouTube and...
Let's put it a different way,
Say you're a YouTuber . You make money off people viewing videos on your channel. How would you feel if someone started downloading your content from YouTube and rehosting it on some other platform where it doesn't make you any money?
I don't think scale is a factor when determining whether something is ethical. If you disagree with an entity's business model or general conduct, shouldn't you just boycott them entirely, rather than using that to justify taking whatever you want? I find the line of thinking questionable, because it can lead down a rabbit hole where we look for reasons to justify bad behavior when we find doing otherwise mildly inconvenient.
I agree - someone rehosting something of mine in a copyright-violating manner would upset me. But I can't see myself getting upset about copyright violation for personal use. The most infuriating...
I agree - someone rehosting something of mine in a copyright-violating manner would upset me. But I can't see myself getting upset about copyright violation for personal use.
The most infuriating example would be if I released a work under a copyleft only to find a company has managed to Tivo-ise it (skirt the fine print of the copyleft and use the software in bad faith).
In the US at least, making personal copies of media you already own is protected, despite what those warnings on your DVDs and Blu-Rays might lead you to believe.
In the US at least, making personal copies of media you already own is protected, despite what those warnings on your DVDs and Blu-Rays might lead you to believe.
I don't think scale is a factor when determining whether something is ethical or not. If I take a stick of gum from a co-worker's desk without asking, they probably won't care either, but it was...
I don't think scale is a factor when determining whether something is ethical or not. If I take a stick of gum from a co-worker's desk without asking, they probably won't care either, but it was still wrong of me to do that.
That really doesn't scan. People pirate all sorts of things with all sorts of business models, as long as it costs more money than they're willing to pay. Doesn't matter what business model you...
That really doesn't scan. People pirate all sorts of things with all sorts of business models, as long as it costs more money than they're willing to pay. Doesn't matter what business model you choose. If you charge money, and you've got enough of an audience for it to be pirated, it will be pirated.
It's never about stopping everyone, it's about reducing the amount. And back to your example, if you had made a software project and it was getting pirated, you would be completely reasonable to...
It's never about stopping everyone, it's about reducing the amount.
And back to your example, if you had made a software project and it was getting pirated, you would be completely reasonable to get upset about that. Maybe your business model is contributing but it's your creation and your choice how you want to be paid for it.
Funny how people never use Walmart's shitty business practices to justify shoplifting. I know copyright infringement and larceny aren't the same thing, but we have laws covering both for a reason....
Funny how people never use Walmart's shitty business practices to justify shoplifting. I know copyright infringement and larceny aren't the same thing, but we have laws covering both for a reason.
I think it is kind of wacky to decide you are exempt from some laws because you disagree with them, or do not like the victim, or think they aren't a victim at all because they are rich. That is the same kind of thinking that goes on over at Bundy Ranch.
Well. People who shoplift do. "It's not affecting the employees, and Walmart's a megacorporation, they'll never even notice it." People find ways to justify what they do, whatever it is that...
Funny how people never use Walmart's shitty business practices to justify shoplifting.
Well. People who shoplift do. "It's not affecting the employees, and Walmart's a megacorporation, they'll never even notice it." People find ways to justify what they do, whatever it is that they're doing.
There's been a nonnegligible amount of philosophical discussion surrounding the concept of a moral obligation toward civil disobedience for the last hundred years or so. Sure, you're not "exempt"...
There's been a nonnegligible amount of philosophical discussion surrounding the concept of a moral obligation toward civil disobedience for the last hundred years or so. Sure, you're not "exempt" from any laws because you disagree with them, but following laws just because they exist seems like a bad way to go about living.
This isn't particularly relevant to the ethics of piracy, to be fair.
That seems even flimsier. Is it OK for me to steal my neighbor's power tools if I think he would do the same to me? I think we should strive to be better than our peers, not stoop to their level.
That seems even flimsier. Is it OK for me to steal my neighbor's power tools if I think he would do the same to me?
I think we should strive to be better than our peers, not stoop to their level.
But me and Disney aren't neighbours. They are a company with basically unlimited amounts of money, vast amounts of power that they work to increase as time goes on and a concerning focus on...
But me and Disney aren't neighbours. They are a company with basically unlimited amounts of money, vast amounts of power that they work to increase as time goes on and a concerning focus on profits above everything else due to being a publicly traded company. We are not on equal footing, and ultimately I don't care about Star Wars enough to support it with my money. I use it to support companies that I want to see succeed.
Look, I'm not saying that piracy is a virtuous act, it's not. I'm just saying that the harm done is so minimal added to the fact that Disney is Disney makes me not care about the harm. Also, my usenet set up is way, way more pleasant to use than any streaming service's UI.
You realize this is exactly the behaviour of people who think rules are made for other people when they justify cutting lines, breaking COVID rules, or any other anti-social behaviour. Sure it’s...
You realize this is exactly the behaviour of people who think rules are made for other people when they justify cutting lines, breaking COVID rules, or any other anti-social behaviour. Sure it’s fine if a few people are rule-breakers but that’s only sustainable if most people are rule-followers.
The root cause of people pirating content and people breaking COVID rules is selfish entitlement, so it's not a horrible comparison IMO. And acting as if pirating content from an "evil...
The root cause of people pirating content and people breaking COVID rules is selfish entitlement, so it's not a horrible comparison IMO. And acting as if pirating content from an "evil corporation" is somehow noble or justified, is not much different than the mental gymnastics people refusing to wear masks because of the "evil government" are doing either.
I occasionally pirate stuff too, but at least I can admit that it's an act of entitlement that I do for selfish reasons; either because I can't afford, or simply just don't want to pay for something.
The root cause of actions is rarely why they are ethical or unethical. Nor does /u/Grzmot seem to have argued that pirating The Mandalorian is a noble cause done for solely virtuous reasons, just...
The root cause of actions is rarely why they are ethical or unethical. Nor does /u/Grzmot seem to have argued that pirating The Mandalorian is a noble cause done for solely virtuous reasons, just that they don't view it as particularly unethical.
Obviously the fail case is quite different — feel free to substitute any other selfish behaviour if that helps. I’m just pointing out that the common thread across these behaviours is identifying...
Obviously the fail case is quite different — feel free to substitute any other selfish behaviour if that helps. I’m just pointing out that the common thread across these behaviours is identifying a selfish shortcut to avoid being “a sucker” without realizing or caring that group success relies on participation.
It was a bit tongue in cheek to be honest, and I was suggesting that maybe you can just not watch Disney's movies instead of pirating them (which I think will be beneficial for you). That said I...
It was a bit tongue in cheek to be honest, and I was suggesting that maybe you can just not watch Disney's movies instead of pirating them (which I think will be beneficial for you).
That said I looked a the list of Disney production movies in the 2010's and I don't think I've seen a single one... really not my thing, just look like generic, market-tailored Hollywood products I've seen 10 times already. Gonna go watch The Tale of the Princess Kaguya now.
I dislike this attitude, honestly. It's unwarranted cynicism. Especially if you haven't seen them … why shit on them? It reeks of "get off my lawn" / "young people these days". And I don't...
I dislike this attitude, honestly. It's unwarranted cynicism. Especially if you haven't seen them … why shit on them? It reeks of "get off my lawn" / "young people these days".
And I don't particularly like disney / what they've released recently, but there's some quality stuff in these and either way a LOT of people like it.
I've seen plenty in the past, and I watch the trailers or reviews, so it's not like I have no idea what to expect. Which one is quality ? I might give it a try.
I've seen plenty in the past, and I watch the trailers or reviews, so it's not like I have no idea what to expect. Which one is quality ? I might give it a try.
It depends what you like. I liked Aladdin but a lot of people didn't. Infinity war + endgame together are imo amazing, though they need a lot of context and if you actively dislike big budget...
It depends what you like. I liked Aladdin but a lot of people didn't. Infinity war + endgame together are imo amazing, though they need a lot of context and if you actively dislike big budget hollywoodish stuff it's not gonna be something you enjoy.
My favourite disney from the last 10 years (not counting Hamilton) is probably Frozen, and Tangled/Zootopia a close second and third. I'm really into the animated movies though so YMMV.
So I watched Frozen and I though it was mediocre. They are good at fast pacing that keeps you awake, but all the rest (story, art, characters, dialogues, music, "moral", ...) was quite bad in my...
So I watched Frozen and I though it was mediocre. They are good at fast pacing that keeps you awake, but all the rest (story, art, characters, dialogues, music, "moral", ...) was quite bad in my opinion. There's plenty of better movies to watch. I guess I'm done with Disney movies until 2030 now ;)
No shit? I don't feel bad about pirating a show from the wealthiest and most powerful media company in Hollywood. No harm done, money saved.
If Disney could earn 5 cents more per year by killing my grandma and getting away with it, they probably would.
I find "They are evil and it I don't think it really hurts them" a somewhat flimsy justification for something you probably wouldn't want others to do to you.
Maybe it doesn't hurt Disney, but it does hurt the artists who earn residuals off their work on the show.
Yeah, I gladly gave them money because I like what Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni are doing and I want to see more.
However, I’m also pretty onboard with corporate cynicism thanks to our increasing amount of dystopia so yarr on.
I don’t know - if I wrote some software and people were pirating it my reaction would be that I had the wrong business model.
Let's put it a different way,
Say you're a YouTuber . You make money off people viewing videos on your channel. How would you feel if someone started downloading your content from YouTube and rehosting it on some other platform where it doesn't make you any money?
I don't think scale is a factor when determining whether something is ethical. If you disagree with an entity's business model or general conduct, shouldn't you just boycott them entirely, rather than using that to justify taking whatever you want? I find the line of thinking questionable, because it can lead down a rabbit hole where we look for reasons to justify bad behavior when we find doing otherwise mildly inconvenient.
I agree - someone rehosting something of mine in a copyright-violating manner would upset me. But I can't see myself getting upset about copyright violation for personal use.
The most infuriating example would be if I released a work under a copyleft only to find a company has managed to Tivo-ise it (skirt the fine print of the copyleft and use the software in bad faith).
In the US at least, making personal copies of media you already own is protected, despite what those warnings on your DVDs and Blu-Rays might lead you to believe.
But if you were still making tons of money (like Disney) I don't think you would care that much.
I don't think scale is a factor when determining whether something is ethical or not. If I take a stick of gum from a co-worker's desk without asking, they probably won't care either, but it was still wrong of me to do that.
I'm not trying to determine whether it's ethical or not, because ultimately, pirating a Disney+ series doesn't have that much of an impact.
This is interesting to me actually. If they don’t care, then what’s wrong about it in a more tangible way than just personal “morals”.
That really doesn't scan. People pirate all sorts of things with all sorts of business models, as long as it costs more money than they're willing to pay. Doesn't matter what business model you choose. If you charge money, and you've got enough of an audience for it to be pirated, it will be pirated.
Yes. You would never be able to stop everyone. It would be a waste of energy to get upset about the existence of piracy.
It's never about stopping everyone, it's about reducing the amount.
And back to your example, if you had made a software project and it was getting pirated, you would be completely reasonable to get upset about that. Maybe your business model is contributing but it's your creation and your choice how you want to be paid for it.
Funny how people never use Walmart's shitty business practices to justify shoplifting. I know copyright infringement and larceny aren't the same thing, but we have laws covering both for a reason.
I think it is kind of wacky to decide you are exempt from some laws because you disagree with them, or do not like the victim, or think they aren't a victim at all because they are rich. That is the same kind of thinking that goes on over at Bundy Ranch.
Well. People who shoplift do. "It's not affecting the employees, and Walmart's a megacorporation, they'll never even notice it." People find ways to justify what they do, whatever it is that they're doing.
There's been a nonnegligible amount of philosophical discussion surrounding the concept of a moral obligation toward civil disobedience for the last hundred years or so. Sure, you're not "exempt" from any laws because you disagree with them, but following laws just because they exist seems like a bad way to go about living.
This isn't particularly relevant to the ethics of piracy, to be fair.
But they would. I don't see why I should give an entity like Disney anything they wouldn't give me.
That seems even flimsier. Is it OK for me to steal my neighbor's power tools if I think he would do the same to me?
I think we should strive to be better than our peers, not stoop to their level.
But me and Disney aren't neighbours. They are a company with basically unlimited amounts of money, vast amounts of power that they work to increase as time goes on and a concerning focus on profits above everything else due to being a publicly traded company. We are not on equal footing, and ultimately I don't care about Star Wars enough to support it with my money. I use it to support companies that I want to see succeed.
Look, I'm not saying that piracy is a virtuous act, it's not. I'm just saying that the harm done is so minimal added to the fact that Disney is Disney makes me not care about the harm. Also, my usenet set up is way, way more pleasant to use than any streaming service's UI.
Also I'm not paying for a whole new service just to watch one program
So subscribe to it for one month to watch the show, then cancel?
You realize this is exactly the behaviour of people who think rules are made for other people when they justify cutting lines, breaking COVID rules, or any other anti-social behaviour. Sure it’s fine if a few people are rule-breakers but that’s only sustainable if most people are rule-followers.
Did you really just equate pirating one of the most popular TV shows on right now with endangering lives?
The root cause of people pirating content and people breaking COVID rules is selfish entitlement, so it's not a horrible comparison IMO. And acting as if pirating content from an "evil corporation" is somehow noble or justified, is not much different than the mental gymnastics people refusing to wear masks because of the "evil government" are doing either.
I occasionally pirate stuff too, but at least I can admit that it's an act of entitlement that I do for selfish reasons; either because I can't afford, or simply just don't want to pay for something.
The root cause of actions is rarely why they are ethical or unethical. Nor does /u/Grzmot seem to have argued that pirating The Mandalorian is a noble cause done for solely virtuous reasons, just that they don't view it as particularly unethical.
Obviously the fail case is quite different — feel free to substitute any other selfish behaviour if that helps. I’m just pointing out that the common thread across these behaviours is identifying a selfish shortcut to avoid being “a sucker” without realizing or caring that group success relies on participation.
I feel like you are harming yourself more than anything by watching a Disney movie.
I'd like to see you justify this post tbh
It was a bit tongue in cheek to be honest, and I was suggesting that maybe you can just not watch Disney's movies instead of pirating them (which I think will be beneficial for you).
That said I looked a the list of Disney production movies in the 2010's and I don't think I've seen a single one... really not my thing, just look like generic, market-tailored Hollywood products I've seen 10 times already. Gonna go watch The Tale of the Princess Kaguya now.
I dislike this attitude, honestly. It's unwarranted cynicism. Especially if you haven't seen them … why shit on them? It reeks of "get off my lawn" / "young people these days".
And I don't particularly like disney / what they've released recently, but there's some quality stuff in these and either way a LOT of people like it.
I've seen plenty in the past, and I watch the trailers or reviews, so it's not like I have no idea what to expect. Which one is quality ? I might give it a try.
It depends what you like. I liked Aladdin but a lot of people didn't. Infinity war + endgame together are imo amazing, though they need a lot of context and if you actively dislike big budget hollywoodish stuff it's not gonna be something you enjoy.
My favourite disney from the last 10 years (not counting Hamilton) is probably Frozen, and Tangled/Zootopia a close second and third. I'm really into the animated movies though so YMMV.
I should give Frozen a try, given it had so much success (plus I love animation).
So I watched Frozen and I though it was mediocre. They are good at fast pacing that keeps you awake, but all the rest (story, art, characters, dialogues, music, "moral", ...) was quite bad in my opinion. There's plenty of better movies to watch. I guess I'm done with Disney movies until 2030 now ;)
You should have watched Aladdin instead.
This one xD ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01vsSDVxjuA
Well, the old one.
Good thing The Mandalorian's a show then, eh?