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Patrick Rothfuss on the wait for book two of The Kingkiller Chronicle (February 26, 2009)
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- Title
- Concerning the Release of Book Two
- Authors
- Pat
- Published
- Feb 27 2009
- Word count
- 2221 words
I read the series a few times. The first time I read it like I do other fiction, and I shared some of the complaints I see (endlessly) about not enough happening, or the Gary Stu adjacency... but then I tried it again through the audiobook after a trip and it became one of my favorites.
At its heart it's a loveletter to storytelling and an allegory for the sort of mental illness that Rothfuss appears to have been fighting a losing battle with, going from a happy promoter of charities, nerds, and fellow authors, to a curmudgeon that (at least from what a sibling tells me) has lied about a lot to his supporters.
A common complaint you see is the Gary Stu-ism is just because he's an unreliable narrator. That critically misses the mark on two counts (besides repeated counter examples):
KvotheKote is a Greek hero who is a shell of himself in a near-apocalypse, likely his fault, with a sword named Folly hanging from his bar. Early on the story is upfront about him being special. "He'll leave his mark on history" no matter what profession he chooses, it says, chapters before he nearly kills himself by showing off. Repeatedly it tries to drive the message home that the flipside of his talent is his hubris, and that his and Denna's trauma lead to generally good people doing harmful things.Kote is an unreliable narrator for sure, but many characters within the story are trying to manipulate the stories told. He and his parents, the prime evil, the lesser evils, the love interest and her patron, the Church, the librarians... the list goes on and on. Rothfuss is a clever writer. A quick example is a ye olde timey song that, upon repeating, suddenly turns dark.
Or... (hopefully I've avoided spoilers elsewhere)
After many warnings he decides to rename a sword that goes back to prehistory:
Caesura, a poetry term for a "break of a line" in a series called "Kingkiller", with a few conspicuous candidates for "Poet Kings. The implication being that magically changed how the sword got used.
He had tried to tell his story before but it came out wrong. So Bast lured the right person, snuck into his room, and threatened him to guide the story away from topics (e.g., music) and into the ego boosting parts. Kvothe is not bragging, he's self-flagellating, and his friend is playing an amateur therapist trying to shape his schemas.
I don't expect we'll get the last book, or at least not one damaged by the last decade. I can't help but feel like at least part of the blame comes down to the reception, and that's a bummer. If I didn't give it another chance I might still be one of the endless, blameless critics.
What's a perfectionist author writing a ridiculously architectonic series supposed to do when most people don't appreciate the work? Trying to overcompensate for that, stalling, and eventually getting bitter is an understandable trajectory.
What's a reader to do when most books don't reward counting words, tracking imagery, a sociology 101 course, or looking for wordplay nearly a book and a half apart?
It sucks, and as someone with MH issues of my own it certainly doesn't absolve him of responsibility for his actions, but I always get those "this is why we can't have nice things" feels.
Rothfuss has seemed like he's headed for his own tragedy, and his own failure to reclaim his self or public story. If nothing else I feel like I learned something from seeing a hint of that fight, and one of those lessons is try to give people a chance to be more than you expect them to be.
How hard are we supposed to appreciate it for it to count? When the first book came out, it was an absolute smash hit. From what I remember of the second one, it was considered good, but not as great as the first one, which is how these things often go. To hear Reddit talk about it back then, the series was the greatest piece of fantasy literature to ever have been written. I'm not surprised if the decade between then and now spawned some harsher criticism, since I can imagine the audience also growing bitter with time, but honestly, it does sound like just another excuse. First, it was too much pressure because the first books were too good and he would have to match that; now that people are saying 'well they're not actually that good', they're too critical and this is why he can't write.
Personally, I really liked the books when they came out, but I gave up on Rothfuss after a few years of the 3rd book not coming out. Like @trobertson mentioned, when TNotW came out, it was 'known' that the 2nd book was already written, because the author himself had said so, so everyone was expecting to see it in a year. It took four years. So when it became obvious that the 3rd book is nowhere on the horizon, I became pretty disillusioned with everything the man was saying, and I know I wasn't the only one.
What makes me lose further respect for him as an author, though, is the constant insistence that it's happening after all. I get that it's a lot of pressure, but at this point, I think he really should be more honest with his readers. People in this thread are hesitant to call him a liar, but what else is a person who knowingly tells falsehoods to people who give him money? It feels like he wants to have it both ways - like @Johz mentioned, he would like to write only when he's comfortable with it, but also get paid. To me, he should either admit that he can't do it, that he needs a break and refocus, or that he wants to pursue other projects, and accept the temporary criticism but get away from this absolutely humongous albatross the third book has grown into over the years. Or he should set a hard deadline and write the book - see previous sentence if he fails. But it's like he keeps trying to cling to relevance while also doing nothing to maintain it, and is then unhappy when people point it out.
It would probably be hard to turn around for him now but real honesty could get him a long way. George RR Martin is facing similar writing difficulties and also gets plenty of hate mail, but he generally handles it better than Rothfuss.
Also, GRRM has been writing and publishing all this time. He's just not writing/publishing what people actually want him to
I found this a super weird complaint. It was my first concern starting out for very obvious reasons, but at the same time, it becomes clear EXTREMELY quickly that his Gary Stu qualities do not account for his very serious flaws, and are likely what has led to his current state. To the point that I almost feel that one of my concerns is just how predictable his downfall will be (we appear to have a lot of pieces of the puzzle needed).
Yeah, beyond that there's a bunch of examples where it seemed like the author went out of his way to point out his shortcomings:
Examples
Usually ignore that line since I don't think it's the interesting part of the books, and probably just invites a debate.
I'm partial to the theory that this is the third and greatest silence. We've only just begun to notice the magnitude of it
I mean, sure, but it's because Rothfuss just doesn't want to write it
The "2009" in the title is very important. There have been two major events since then that have shaken most fans' belief that book 3 will ever come out. Essentially, his most dedicated fanbase thinks he's been lying to them for over a decade about there even being a book 3.
In 2020, his editor made a facebook post where she claims that she hasn't seen even a single word of book 3. From his Wikipedia:
In 2021, he told his stream he would release the first chapter if his audience hit a donation goal (which they hit within minutes). Two years later, he has still not released that chapter. From his Wikipedia:
Personally, I'm done with this guy. He has made and broken far more promises than those two passages suggest, and he's got nobody to blame but himself. And when his fans ask him for the things he promised, he gets incredibly angry and rages at them. It's textbook narcissism.
And to drive the point home, it's not like his poor behaved is a recent thing. His lies started before the first book even released - he said of books 2 and 3: "Well.... I've already written them. So you won't have to wait forever for them to come out. They'll be released on a regular schedule. One per year." This was in an interview in 2007. He's been lying to everyone for a very long time.
I definitely begrudge him a bit for making promises he can't keep, but I'm not sure I would go as far as calling him an outright liar. Given his broken promises, it's within your right to do so. I know I'm very sad that I won't get to read the final book in a series I love so much.
Just saying though, I can see how an author could get depressed and start letting everyone down, including themselves. I assume he had every intention of releasing that first chapter. I also assume he had a working draft of book 3 which he, at one point, felt was a pretty good outline. I think it's entirely possible that he looked at book 3 at some point and realized he hated it, or at least hated certain things about it. Maybe he is a perfectionist who is so obsessed with making book 3 perfect that it's become an unclimbable mountain for him. He probably hasn't even looked at the Word doc in years.
All else aside, he is a complete asshole to his fans who want him to finish the book.
I feel very mixed on this. People are fucking horrible in large fan groups. We have sadly normalized totally unacceptable behavior when it comes to interacting with general strangers, and not everyone is made for this.
I completely understand someone like GRRM being pissed as shit at the criticisms he gets, especially when some of them are about the things that ultimately make his book different. He doesn't put out stories as fast as say, King, for lots of reasons, but one of them is a completely opposite approach to mapping out the story. This is a huge portion of what makes his stories different from things you've read before, and yet he will constantly be criticized, horrifically, for this.
Now many people, especially of younger generations, have learned to just ignore it. Someone is always willing to wish death and horror upon you for the dumbest of imagined slights, but not everyone of even those generations is good at it, and so i'm not shocked nor do I totally hold them totally accountable for handling horrific and constant personal attacks poorly.
In the end, i know very little about Rothfuss, and the whole charity thing IS out of line from several angles (although i've heard there might be legal and divorce implications as a theory, that doesn't make it ok). Still, I'm not really shocked that yet another artist has gotten extremely hostile to everyone asking/talking/telling them about their work after being bombarded with nothing but out and out hate.
I watched a video recently about the rise and fall of Lauryn Hill, and it reminds me a lot of Rothfuss and his work, particularly if you compare them both to Taylor Swift and Brandon Sanderson. I think both Swift and Sanderson see their work mainly as a job - an artistic job, but a job nonetheless. They have to turn up, they have to write the book, they have to sing the songs, etc. And they both produce a lot of really good art as a result, albeit perhaps tempered by the pressures of commercial success.
Whereas Hill and Rothfuss both see themselves primarily as artists. And more than that, they want (expect? demand?) you to approach their work as art, with the reverence that they feel it deserves. If Lauryn Hill doesn't feel like the art is flowing through her today, she's not going to force it, she's just not going to put the effort into her performance - if she performs at all. Similarly, if Rothfuss can't write today, he can't write today - you can't force him to, and he's definitely not going to force himself to. You do not get to expect anything from them - even if you pay for a concert, or donate towards a stretch goal - because you can't just pay to make art appear.
I don't necessarily think that's they're wrong for seeing their craft in that light - a lot of great artists have worked along those lines and produced truly beautiful and amazing work that has lasted and been valued for centuries. But I think they have a second expectation, which is that as they produce their great works, we, the public, should be supporting them financially - but without any expectation of a result, because as described before, art cannot be forced. For Hill, that means still coming to her shows even though they're so hit and miss; for Rothfuss it's a bit more complex because he ties a lot of this stuff to his charity work, but his fundraising is often fundamentally linked to Doors of Stone.
I think that's the point at which I struggle to get on board with these artists. I'm more than happy to support their work when they produce it, because it is good work. But I don't feel any responsibility to support them on the off-chance that something falls out, just because they see themselves as artists who are deserving of support.
Your comment had had me thinking since I first read it about 8 minutes after you posted it. I think it's a really astute observation about Rothfuss, and has helped me reevaluate my thoughts on both his series and GRRM's. I have cut Hill a lot of slack over the years because of how she views and creates art, but I had written off both these authors and had no intention of revisiting either series if they should happen to get finished, but I didn't treat Hill's music the same.
I don't know where I'm going to land on my opinion of either series or authors, but I just wanted to thank you, and recognize a great observation that really resonated with me and made me think.
This is obviously a very old blog post, but with the upcoming release of the Bast novella, I was looking to see if there was any news about Book Three of the King Killer Chronicles. There isn’t, but I came across this post and thought it might be interesting for people here who haven’t seen it or haven’t read it in the last 14 years or so.
I can really sympathize with the crippling pressure people like Rothfuss or GRRM feel. Maybe I’m projecting, but I have a similar sort of social anxiety with my work (academia) where I have an enormous amount of trouble getting myself to submit papers for publication/review, or even send early drafts to coauthors. I can’t imagine having millions of people waiting for the next thing I write.
Authors of multi-part series are in a sort of unique position in that regard. I can’t think of any other profession with that kind of pressure placed on a single person where the work is so individual and personal. Other artists don’t have the same kind of continual thread to their work (e.g., musicians) that create the hype and fury and rage that gets directed to these authors.
Anyway, thought some tilderinos might enjoy it. Here’s a paragraph about the one asshole comment out of a hundred positive ones that made me laugh out loud:
I was in middle school when I read book one, a sophomore in high school when book two came out. I’m married, have a college degree, and I’m a licensed attorney. I will never read this book or give Patrick Rothfuss a dime. I empathize with his mental health struggles, but at this point this is beyond just mental health. He is fully willing and able to go on twitch and show up to panels, but not writing a book. He raised over $1mil in a stream like three years ago and promised to release a chapter of the third book and it’s never happened. At this point he’s just grifting.
I am genuinely shocked he has not been sued by his publisher for breach of their agreement. Because there is no way he has met a single deadline for writing.
It's been long enough now that I don't possess the first two books. If, and when, he releases the third book I will go out and buy all three, since I will need to read the first two again. Is this all part of his and his publishers master plan? To boost Book 1 and Book 2 sales when Book 3 comes out? I can only wonder because nothing else makes sense.
I heard about these books a fair while back and bought first one (aware of the second ), THEN I find out its been years since the latters release. That blogpost was 2009. Its 2023. Is there some sort of record for length of time between the second third book release of a series like this ? (Can imagine there have been cases where a series has never been finished for xyz reasons). A lot of people are invested in the series and I understand author has his own battles to fight (have a friend who is an author as well and so i can understand ) but wow 14 years ?
The Wiseman's Fear was published on March 2011 while Martin's A Dance with Dragons was published on July of the same year, Rothfuss "wins" for three months or so.
There's a lot of books with a sequel released decades after but those are usually self contained stories like The Hobbit (1937) and The Lord of the Rings (1968).
I don't know of any book series as delayed as Kingkiller's Chronicle and a Song of Ice and Fire.
The Guardian was able to find a few multi-decade gaps.
Another one I'm aware of is Glen Cook's Dread Empire series. 7 books published 1979-88, the final book published 2012.
I'm not familiar with his other works but supposedly he also wants to publish two more books of the Black Company series but the it seems pretty finished to me and the last one is from 2000.
Edit: Apparently he abandoned the Dread Empire series due to flagging sales and the theft of a manuscript and only wrote the last one because the publishing company reissuing the series convinced him.
Very different situation to Rothfuss but at 25 years he still wins... for now, I honestly don't expect The Door of Stone to be published, ever.
Not as long but the Dresden files had a pretty huge gap for various reasons, which to his credit the author resolved by releasing two books 6 months apart when he finally did get going again
I have a friend who adored these books. She is so upset about not getting book three that she now refers to the author as "Patrick Ratfuck" if anyone mentions the series. She has a signed picture of Brandon Sanderson on her wall. I think her passion for Brandon increases each year he delivers more and more books.
Brandon Sanderson is very productive! But as he himself has publicly said, his writing methods are completely different from Pat's and could not be used to yield Pat's kind of story, all the other problems with the trilogy notwithstanding.