22 votes

Tildes exclusive: the Ethoscore Project

Hi TilderiƱos,

This post is long enough for a TLDR: I made this thing, it's a platform for conscious consumerism. I'm launching the beta on Tildes. It's far from complete, expect imperfect scores in many cases. It's invite only, see my top level reply below or DM me for an invite.

To start, I'm a long time member who posts enough that at least some of you would recognize my username. I made a new account for this project because I don't want to think about being a representative on my main account.

Early on during development I decided Tildes would be the perfect place to launch a private beta because Tildoes are some of the best people on the internet in my experience. And also fairly diverse by internet standards. Aside from a handful of friends and family you'll be the first to see it.

I should give you a little backstory. A couple of years ago I lost my income. Fortunately we were in a place where we could mostly afford to live without it for a while, so I had some time to figure out what I wanted to do next. For context I have over 30 years of experience in software development. Similar for marketing, brand strategy, business development, mostly but not exclusively in the context of the internet. I'm not quite as old as that sounds, I was still a minor when I starting building things on the internet, back when almost no one really knew what the internet was or what to do with it. In short, I'm comfortably fluent in all the languages of the internet.

I've built all sorts of different types of applications and businesses, mostly commercial. This time I wanted to build something that would have a positive impact and I wanted that to be the point, rather than a side effect. I spent most of a year researching the feasibility of a number of ideas before I landed on this one.

I've been on the internet long enough to see a lot of well meaning ideas fall flat. At this point I have no idea if this is another one of those. I know the concept is solid, but that doesn't mean it will inspire people. Or more specifically in this case, be a platform people can use to inspire each other. This is complicated by my intention to be as uncynical as possible about the project. I know all sorts of tricks for capturing attention and creating hype, I know how to monetize an app and sell products. But all of that feels out of place to me if the goal in uncynical. No doubt Tilders could have a long conversation here about the balance between good intentions and practical reality. I'd have lot to contribute.

The Ethoscore Project is an attempt to make the entirely unsexy concept of conscious consumerism easy and accessible. I genuinely believe it's a viable way to make the world a little better. It includes things like company scores and community lists (including boycott lists) and accepts community contributions and corrections for every company data point including scoring. I won't make a wall of text about all the functionality and features here, you can find out more on the site.

The project is currently self funded, which will hopefully be able to last long enough to see if the idea has potential. For now, funding is a problem for later.

The roadmap is long and wide. There are so many things I want to add, at least some of which aren't terrible ideas, but at this point development has been going on for over a year and I think it's time to see what strangers think. The project's 50k lines of code took time but the larger part of development has been company research, there are currently over 15,000 brands and companies covered, which is really just a start.

You might imagine that researching the international conglomerates that own most of the brands we see would be depressing in a capitalist dystopia sort of way and you wouldn't be wrong. But there's also more good news that I expected. There are big, successful companies doing the right thing when they don't have to. More than you'd expect. And there's evidence that their practices are inspiring other companies to do the same. I don't know if it's outpacing the general capitalist race to the bottom but it's not nothing! I see reasons for optimism.

I'm hoping some of you will be kind enough to take a look. I welcome all questions, contributions and feedback. The company database and scoring are far from complete, my goal for the beta was to have enough coverage that scanning products at a big box grocery store would result in more hits than misses. I think scoring is necessary but to me, community lists are more interesting and have more potential to be useful. At this point there are going to be a lot of bugs, imperfections and companies with scores that seem off. I want to hear about all the issues you encounter. I'm more excited about your impressions and ideas though. How does it feel to use it? Does it make sense? Is it low friction? As a user is there something important missing that you'd expect to be there? What works well? Would you do anything differently?

There aren't smartphone apps yet, I want the codebase closer to complete before I start on the joys of maintaining two more codebases and dealing with the app stores. You can install it as a PWA (web app) on your phone if you like, which mostly just makes it quicker to access. I definitely recommend using your phone if you want to play with the barcode scanner.

Throughout the beta the app will be invite only and available only to Tildes users and people I personally invite. See top level comment below for an invite.

10 comments

  1. [4]
    atomicshoreline
    Link
    I snagged one of the 3 invites and my initial impression that I am skeptical of the methodology used to generate the scores and feel it fails to capture company impact adequately. The example I...

    I snagged one of the 3 invites and my initial impression that I am skeptical of the methodology used to generate the scores and feel it fails to capture company impact adequately.

    The example I first noticed was Microsoft scoring a 76 despite constantly being in trouble for openly agreeing to lend the use of their data centers to regimes commiting genocide and having subsidiaries who poor track records for treating workers well I.e Activision-Blizzard, among many other issues.

    I understand that a project like this is a difficult to scale but I can't help but feel the site is misleading in certain cases.

    That being said I admire the idea behind this project and want to see it grow. The feature I would be most interested in is being able to drill down into specific products. I want to be able to see the ethics of using a Google Pixel phone but not have YouTube affect the score for example. Large companies are effectively composed of subsections that would ideally be scored separately.

    7 votes
    1. [2]
      unkz
      Link Parent
      Kind of reminds me of The Good Place where nobody has entered heaven since the Industrial Revolution made every action slightly immoral.

      Kind of reminds me of The Good Place where nobody has entered heaven since the Industrial Revolution made every action slightly immoral.

      6 votes
      1. Eric_the_Cerise
        Link Parent
        Just added this to my "to watch" short list, based entirely on this description. Thanx.

        Just added this to my "to watch" short list, based entirely on this description. Thanx.

    2. ethoscore
      Link Parent
      You're right that Microsoft's score is off. It doesn't have full scoring impacts yet, which is true of many companies in the database right now. In those cases the score defaults to scoring data...

      I understand that a project like this is a difficult to scale but I can't help but feel the site is misleading in certain cases

      You're right that Microsoft's score is off. It doesn't have full scoring impacts yet, which is true of many companies in the database right now. In those cases the score defaults to scoring data aggregated from various sources. The app accepts community contributed score impacts! I understand if you don't have the time or inclination but you brought up some good candidates for new impacts.

      It would be interesting to be able to separate Pixel from YouTube. That's something that could be possible with community support, but it would need to be a fairly large community.

      My thinking at this point is that, using your example, if Google is doing shady things at YouTube, it should ideally impact their profits across their whole ecosystem, Pixel included.

      Thanks for the feedback!

      3 votes
  2. [2]
    ethoscore
    (edited )
    Link
    Invites Reply to this comment for an invite. Here are a few to start things off:
    4 votes
    1. ethoscore
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Fresh invite link: https://ethoscoreproject.com/invite?code=635f11c8acf1e90e I'll keep refreshing this periodically but please reply or DM to get an invite faster.
      4 votes
  3. [2]
    CannibalisticApple
    Link
    Made an account and am browsing. Seems fairly detailed so far, and the interface seems nice and clean. My first point of input from a cursory glance: maybe it's because I'm on mobile, but I'm not...

    Made an account and am browsing. Seems fairly detailed so far, and the interface seems nice and clean.

    My first point of input from a cursory glance: maybe it's because I'm on mobile, but I'm not seeing details on which "avoid lists" companies are on. Just the fact they're on a list. Will the icons only apply for lists made by you (Custodian), or for all lists made by anyone? Is there a way to see what lists they're on?

    On that note, interesting to see half the "Ethics Villain" list is green. When I checked some of them, their ethics also seemed to be well-rated, and it didn't give a breakdown of why they're on that list. The green companies on the list include United Healthcare, Altria Group (Marlboro) and Johnson & Johnson, all of which showed positive metrics on the site. The only score impact listed for all three had to do with the environment score. I agree with their inclusion on the list, but could you explain the criteria used for the list?

    4 votes
    1. ethoscore
      Link Parent
      Thanks for the detailed notes! In order: I love that the interface feels clean. That's a good point, and it's already on my list to add something to the UI to show which lists a company shows up...

      Thanks for the detailed notes!

      In order:

      I love that the interface feels clean.

      That's a good point, and it's already on my list to add something to the UI to show which lists a company shows up on. I'll move it to the top.

      The icons/badges show a count of all lists a company shows up on. The above UI change would add a List detail section to the company pages that shows specific lists they're on globally. I may eventually add a setting to control that behavior (badges show for all lists or just owned/followed lists)

      You're right about the Villain lists, some of the companies don't yet have full scoring impacts. I've been working on that this week. The aggregate data sources (where the base scores come from) are... imperfect. The champion list companies are fully scored, and most of the environment villains list. Once the impacts are finished it should be more clear why they're included.

      3 votes
  4. [2]
    phoenixrises
    Link
    I'm all for cool projects and such but I'm wondering, what makes this different than something like Buycott? I haven't used any of the invites or anything yet, but I'm curious. Also as general...

    I'm all for cool projects and such but I'm wondering, what makes this different than something like Buycott? I haven't used any of the invites or anything yet, but I'm curious.

    Also as general constructive criticism, I'd maybe move the section on your backstory till after you describe what the project actually is :)

    2 votes
    1. ethoscore
      Link Parent
      I hadn't heard of Buycott, but at a glance it looks like Buycott is a barcode database that links products to user created campaigns. It doesn't appear to have any info on the companies and brands...

      I hadn't heard of Buycott, but at a glance it looks like Buycott is a barcode database that links products to user created campaigns. It doesn't appear to have any info on the companies and brands themselves.

      When I did a search for "Apple" from their main page it took about 15 seconds before returning "no results". When I chose the "brand" search and tried again it took another 10+ seconds before returning a page of results that didn't include Apple. Coca-Cola was the top result. After a few other searches it looks like the brand search always returns the same list of results for any search term.

      3 votes