[...] [I]f you call your bank and say, “I was defrauded! Someone called me and pretended to be the IRS, and I read them my debit card number, and now I’ve lost money,” the state machine obligates the financial institution to have the customer service representative click a very prominent button on their interface. This will restore your funds very quickly and have some side effects you probably care about much less keenly. One of those is an “investigation,” which is not really an investigation in the commanding majority of cases.
And if you call the program manager and say, “I was defrauded! Someone called me and pretended to be the IRS, and I read them a gift card number, and now I’ve lost money,” there is… no state machine. There is no legal requirement to respond with alacrity, no statutorily imposed deadline, no button for a CS rep to push, and no investigation to launch. You will likely be told by a low-paid employee that this is unfortunate and that you should file a police report. [...]
....
The people of the United States, through their elected representatives and the civil servants who labor on their behalf, intentionally exempt gift cards from the Reg E regime in the interest of facilitating commerce.
...
And so the fraud supply chain comes to learn which firms haven’t done that investment, and preferentially suggests those gift cards to their launderers, mules, brick movers, and scam victims.
And that’s why the AARP tells fibs about gift cards: we have, with largely positive intentions and for good reasons, exposed them to less regulation than most formal payment systems in the United States received. That decision has a cost. Grandma sometimes pays it.
I'd be very curious to know what percentage of gift card sales are used for nefarious purposes (defrauding people, laundering stolen credit cards, etc.) At this point I feel like it has to be a...
I'd be very curious to know what percentage of gift card sales are used for nefarious purposes (defrauding people, laundering stolen credit cards, etc.)
At this point I feel like it has to be a significant percentage right? Who is still buying gift cards? It seems like a solution without a problem for 99% of people.
I use them for PSN credit so that I don't have to have a card linked with my account. Due to breaches, and unexpected payment rollovers, it's simpler just to add credit from gift cards when I need it.
I use them for PSN credit so that I don't have to have a card linked with my account. Due to breaches, and unexpected payment rollovers, it's simpler just to add credit from gift cards when I need it.
Yeah that's one of the few use cases I can think of them being regularly legitimately used, for online purchases by people who choose to or don't have access to credit/debit cards. But obviously...
Yeah that's one of the few use cases I can think of them being regularly legitimately used, for online purchases by people who choose to or don't have access to credit/debit cards. But obviously not many people are doing that with Subway and Cheesecake factory gift cards haha.
Really? Not even during holiday season? My experience working retail is the opposite. People love getting other people gift cards instead of thinking of something more thoughtful. I guess it...
Really? Not even during holiday season?
My experience working retail is the opposite. People love getting other people gift cards instead of thinking of something more thoughtful.
I hate that there is this taboo to just gifting money directly. It's strictly superior to a gift card. Doesn't expire, can be used through regular checkout, can be used with every single store,...
I hate that there is this taboo to just gifting money directly. It's strictly superior to a gift card. Doesn't expire, can be used through regular checkout, can be used with every single store, gives all the money to the business instead of skiming 10% of it sometime... it's like a universal gift card!
IMO the benefit of a gift card is that it isn't fungible, so if you get a gift card in something that's a "treat", that takes a cognitive load off of your consumption habits. You won't have to...
IMO the benefit of a gift card is that it isn't fungible, so if you get a gift card in something that's a "treat", that takes a cognitive load off of your consumption habits. You won't have to think, "hey, I should be spending this on something more practical". So that's the gift, really - not having to think about the opportunity cost.
That being said, I think cash and gift cards are bad gifts.
Sure, and sometimes that is a better option (my gift cards don't expire, work via checkout, don't skim... Idk I haven't had those issues) for me gift cards are a way to make sure I use the money...
Sure, and sometimes that is a better option (my gift cards don't expire, work via checkout, don't skim... Idk I haven't had those issues) for me gift cards are a way to make sure I use the money on the thing - instead of putting it in savings and never doing anything nice for myself. Or it helps me budget my "fun" shopping. Or it's a way of getting more gift card money than the cash spent (when you shop at Costco for example).
They're a way to "buy" someone new clothes while letting them buy the clothes themselves. You know?
But I was just providing a different perspective
I have trouble remembering to use gift cards so I don't like receiving them. However, if I give gifts of cash/checks to young relatives, their mother puts it in savings for them. Not a bad choice...
I have trouble remembering to use gift cards so I don't like receiving them.
However, if I give gifts of cash/checks to young relatives, their mother puts it in savings for them. Not a bad choice but not a fun gift for the kid.
Yeah it very much depends on the person. It's helpful to me to have "special money" set aside. My step kid is saving up for some expensive tools and would rather have a giftcard towards that...
Yeah it very much depends on the person. It's helpful to me to have "special money" set aside. My step kid is saving up for some expensive tools and would rather have a giftcard towards that purchase than something else. My partner feels less guilty about building a new game with a gift card than with "cash" because the money was for that
Well, I almost never give money as a gift but the few times I did, I had a notes mentioning "this is to treat yourself with new clothe/a spa of your choice / whatever" so the cognitive load and...
Well, I almost never give money as a gift but the few times I did, I had a notes mentioning "this is to treat yourself with new clothe/a spa of your choice / whatever" so the cognitive load and guilt of assigning the money is gone, yet the recipient can always ignore the note if he'd rather spend it some other way...
Yeah for me there's an internal "I should be responsible and use this on _________” or save it for bill or whatever. I am not saying cash is bad. It's fine. But like, my Amazon gift card balance...
Yeah for me there's an internal "I should be responsible and use this on _________” or save it for bill or whatever. I am not saying cash is bad. It's fine. But like, my Amazon gift card balance is for ebooks, so I don't feel bad buying my favorite author instead of waiting for the library.
It's just how my brain works. Sometimes it's thoughtful, sometimes it's easy.
(When partner was in the hospital, a few people brought me food, some sent me gift cards. And since his hospital was 40 min away in a different city, it was incredibly helpful. Fast food meant I could eat on the road and spend more time with him and I was pretty non-functional otherwise. Cash would have been fine, but required thinking a bit more and sometimes it was helpful not to on my end. )
You’re right, that comment I made was shiesty and unnecessary. It could be sweet for a gamer getting points for something they like, or someone’s favorite restaurant, support for a good small...
You’re right, that comment I made was shiesty and unnecessary. It could be sweet for a gamer getting points for something they like, or someone’s favorite restaurant, support for a good small business etc.
That was moreso misplaced anger for the corporations who make gift cards intentionally suck to drain more money from the consumer, like double activation fees, not being able to do split payments sometimes online so you have to be under the amount of the card value always leaving a few dollars you can’t get rid of, the olden days where they charged inactivity fees (which is now illegal thankfully), etc.
Most times I appreciate just getting a gift in the first place, but I often feel like I would have preferred cash and it would have saved us both money without fueling shady corporate practices.
I am not sure how you took my statement to mean your comment was "shiesty and unnecessary". I was just providing an alternative POV. * I've not had the hurdles you describe with gift cards for...
I am not sure how you took my statement to mean your comment was "shiesty and unnecessary". I was just providing an alternative POV. *
I've not had the hurdles you describe with gift cards for decades though. Not sure if that's state law or something but I just use them like cash at the places I want to buy things.
*I have recently been criticized for my "tone" and while I do not believe I'm doing anything but being direct I specifically here tried not to give anything other than the intended statement and still got what seems like a ton of additional interpretation.
It sounded more to me like your comment just prompted some self-reflection than that your comment was trying to call them out on their attitude. I think your tone was fine, for what it's worth
It sounded more to me like your comment just prompted some self-reflection than that your comment was trying to call them out on their attitude. I think your tone was fine, for what it's worth
I did whittle it down to one sentence so I hoped so. It's just the recent stuff has made me attentive/self-conscious (and annoyed, just not at anyone in this thread). Ty I am probably just being...
I did whittle it down to one sentence so I hoped so. It's just the recent stuff has made me attentive/self-conscious (and annoyed, just not at anyone in this thread).
Ahhh no! I could have worded that better. I meant “you’re right” as in your statement is correct, it can be thoughtful gift sometimes. The “shiesty and unnecessary” comment was how I felt about...
Ahhh no! I could have worded that better.
I meant “you’re right” as in your statement is correct, it can be thoughtful gift sometimes. The “shiesty and unnecessary” comment was how I felt about myself upon reflection and you did not imply that at all.
I have never felt that you have a problematic tone in any post I’ve seen from you, so please don’t worry.
I forget sometimes that I can come off a little gruff in text because I type how I speak in person but it is unaccompanied by my facial expressions and tone of voice.
I appreciate it, I'm just a bit more sensitive as I've once again had a "you're the reason I am leaving this site" conversation and then one implying I was attacking someone else and I'm a mix of...
I appreciate it, I'm just a bit more sensitive as I've once again had a "you're the reason I am leaving this site" conversation and then one implying I was attacking someone else and I'm a mix of hurt/annoyed/exhausted by it all. I'm aware I'll never make everyone happy but I'm also tired of it, you know?
So it was mostly just timing and not a you thing. I just thought I was being misread again (｡•́︿•̀｡)
Well it was a hardware store in a poor rural area so that could have made the difference, its probably not representative of the wider market. We still had gift cards for all sorts of places for...
Well it was a hardware store in a poor rural area so that could have made the difference, its probably not representative of the wider market. We still had gift cards for all sorts of places for some reason, but I think the only ones I ever saw getting bought were itunes gift cards and even that was rare.
It's not a majority of our customers or anything, but the grocery store I work at regularly does a 4x fuel points promo (normally, $1 = 1 point, and you can use the points in increments of 100 up...
It's not a majority of our customers or anything, but the grocery store I work at regularly does a 4x fuel points promo (normally, $1 = 1 point, and you can use the points in increments of 100 up to a thousand, so $1/gal off) or buying gift cards. We sell them to tons of places, so there's a dedicated subset of customers who buy gift cards to other places they regularly shop so they can rack up fuel points.
Obviously this time of year they're flying off the shelves, but people buy them year round for birthdays as well. There's also the people who do things like buy their kids Roblox credits and Steam gift cards so they can buy games while being too young for a debit card.
They don't really have to be popular for stores to stock them, as long as a few get sold then it's beneficial to the store since some people won't end up using them
They don't really have to be popular for stores to stock them, as long as a few get sold then it's beneficial to the store since some people won't end up using them
I know that the grocery business I work for sells about 100,000 gift cards a day during the week of Christmas (across around 100 stores). Outside of that the number is much smaller but still on...
I know that the grocery business I work for sells about 100,000 gift cards a day during the week of Christmas (across around 100 stores). Outside of that the number is much smaller but still on the order of 1,000 a day.
They work well as, well, gifts. My aunt would mail my cousins and I Starbucks or McDonald's gift cards for Christmas since she lives far away. Amazon gift cards are typically good "all-purpose"...
They work well as, well, gifts. My aunt would mail my cousins and I Starbucks or McDonald's gift cards for Christmas since she lives far away. Amazon gift cards are typically good "all-purpose" gifts. This year a friend got me a gift card for a local used electronic media store for my birthday. Heck, last time we went to Costco my mom bought a gift card to I think a local high-end restaurant to give a friend.
They're overall low-effort presents and good for when you don't know the recipient's tastes too well.
I'm definitely a fan (most of his articles on Tildes were shared by me), but I think his writing style is overly clever and often hard to understand. This article is short, which helps.
I'm definitely a fan (most of his articles on Tildes were shared by me), but I think his writing style is overly clever and often hard to understand. This article is short, which helps.
"Patio11" is well known "popular economics" writer. If you like his style, you may also like Matt Levine and his Money Stuff newsteller (paywalled at bloomberg, but free at email).
"Patio11" is well known "popular economics" writer. If you like his style, you may also like Matt Levine and his Money Stuff newsteller (paywalled at bloomberg, but free at email).
From the article:
....
...
I'd be very curious to know what percentage of gift card sales are used for nefarious purposes (defrauding people, laundering stolen credit cards, etc.)
At this point I feel like it has to be a significant percentage right? Who is still buying gift cards? It seems like a solution without a problem for 99% of people.
I know someone who buys them to reach minimum spending limits on rewards credit cards. The gift cards become Christmas presents or are used later.
Oooh, this is brilliant. I have a family member who farms credit card/bank account rewards as a hobby. Passing this along to her.
In the US, every store has them, so I assume they're pretty popular.
I worked in a store for a while and I never had anyone once purchase one at my register. I think they kinda just sit around.
I use them for PSN credit so that I don't have to have a card linked with my account. Due to breaches, and unexpected payment rollovers, it's simpler just to add credit from gift cards when I need it.
Yeah that's one of the few use cases I can think of them being regularly legitimately used, for online purchases by people who choose to or don't have access to credit/debit cards. But obviously not many people are doing that with Subway and Cheesecake factory gift cards haha.
I used to live down the street from an amazing ice cream shop. We reloaded a gift card each month to keep from going too often.
Really? Not even during holiday season?
My experience working retail is the opposite. People love getting other people gift cards instead of thinking of something more thoughtful.
I guess it depends on the store, probably.
Sometimes giftcards are the thoughtful thing.
I hate that there is this taboo to just gifting money directly. It's strictly superior to a gift card. Doesn't expire, can be used through regular checkout, can be used with every single store, gives all the money to the business instead of skiming 10% of it sometime... it's like a universal gift card!
IMO the benefit of a gift card is that it isn't fungible, so if you get a gift card in something that's a "treat", that takes a cognitive load off of your consumption habits. You won't have to think, "hey, I should be spending this on something more practical". So that's the gift, really - not having to think about the opportunity cost.
That being said, I think cash and gift cards are bad gifts.
Sure, and sometimes that is a better option (my gift cards don't expire, work via checkout, don't skim... Idk I haven't had those issues) for me gift cards are a way to make sure I use the money on the thing - instead of putting it in savings and never doing anything nice for myself. Or it helps me budget my "fun" shopping. Or it's a way of getting more gift card money than the cash spent (when you shop at Costco for example).
They're a way to "buy" someone new clothes while letting them buy the clothes themselves. You know?
But I was just providing a different perspective
I have trouble remembering to use gift cards so I don't like receiving them.
However, if I give gifts of cash/checks to young relatives, their mother puts it in savings for them. Not a bad choice but not a fun gift for the kid.
Yeah it very much depends on the person. It's helpful to me to have "special money" set aside. My step kid is saving up for some expensive tools and would rather have a giftcard towards that purchase than something else. My partner feels less guilty about building a new game with a gift card than with "cash" because the money was for that
Well, I almost never give money as a gift but the few times I did, I had a notes mentioning "this is to treat yourself with new clothe/a spa of your choice / whatever" so the cognitive load and guilt of assigning the money is gone, yet the recipient can always ignore the note if he'd rather spend it some other way...
Yeah for me there's an internal "I should be responsible and use this on _________” or save it for bill or whatever. I am not saying cash is bad. It's fine. But like, my Amazon gift card balance is for ebooks, so I don't feel bad buying my favorite author instead of waiting for the library.
It's just how my brain works. Sometimes it's thoughtful, sometimes it's easy.
(When partner was in the hospital, a few people brought me food, some sent me gift cards. And since his hospital was 40 min away in a different city, it was incredibly helpful. Fast food meant I could eat on the road and spend more time with him and I was pretty non-functional otherwise. Cash would have been fine, but required thinking a bit more and sometimes it was helpful not to on my end. )
You’re right, that comment I made was shiesty and unnecessary. It could be sweet for a gamer getting points for something they like, or someone’s favorite restaurant, support for a good small business etc.
That was moreso misplaced anger for the corporations who make gift cards intentionally suck to drain more money from the consumer, like double activation fees, not being able to do split payments sometimes online so you have to be under the amount of the card value always leaving a few dollars you can’t get rid of, the olden days where they charged inactivity fees (which is now illegal thankfully), etc.
Most times I appreciate just getting a gift in the first place, but I often feel like I would have preferred cash and it would have saved us both money without fueling shady corporate practices.
I am not sure how you took my statement to mean your comment was "shiesty and unnecessary". I was just providing an alternative POV. *
I've not had the hurdles you describe with gift cards for decades though. Not sure if that's state law or something but I just use them like cash at the places I want to buy things.
*I have recently been criticized for my "tone" and while I do not believe I'm doing anything but being direct I specifically here tried not to give anything other than the intended statement and still got what seems like a ton of additional interpretation.
This isn't about you, just at a bit of a loss.
It sounded more to me like your comment just prompted some self-reflection than that your comment was trying to call them out on their attitude. I think your tone was fine, for what it's worth
I did whittle it down to one sentence so I hoped so. It's just the recent stuff has made me attentive/self-conscious (and annoyed, just not at anyone in this thread).
Ty I am probably just being overattentive.
Ahhh no! I could have worded that better.
I meant “you’re right” as in your statement is correct, it can be thoughtful gift sometimes. The “shiesty and unnecessary” comment was how I felt about myself upon reflection and you did not imply that at all.
I have never felt that you have a problematic tone in any post I’ve seen from you, so please don’t worry.
I forget sometimes that I can come off a little gruff in text because I type how I speak in person but it is unaccompanied by my facial expressions and tone of voice.
I appreciate it, I'm just a bit more sensitive as I've once again had a "you're the reason I am leaving this site" conversation and then one implying I was attacking someone else and I'm a mix of hurt/annoyed/exhausted by it all. I'm aware I'll never make everyone happy but I'm also tired of it, you know?
So it was mostly just timing and not a you thing. I just thought I was being misread again (｡•́︿•̀｡)
Well it was a hardware store in a poor rural area so that could have made the difference, its probably not representative of the wider market. We still had gift cards for all sorts of places for some reason, but I think the only ones I ever saw getting bought were itunes gift cards and even that was rare.
It's not a majority of our customers or anything, but the grocery store I work at regularly does a 4x fuel points promo (normally, $1 = 1 point, and you can use the points in increments of 100 up to a thousand, so $1/gal off) or buying gift cards. We sell them to tons of places, so there's a dedicated subset of customers who buy gift cards to other places they regularly shop so they can rack up fuel points.
Obviously this time of year they're flying off the shelves, but people buy them year round for birthdays as well. There's also the people who do things like buy their kids Roblox credits and Steam gift cards so they can buy games while being too young for a debit card.
They don't really have to be popular for stores to stock them, as long as a few get sold then it's beneficial to the store since some people won't end up using them
I know that the grocery business I work for sells about 100,000 gift cards a day during the week of Christmas (across around 100 stores). Outside of that the number is much smaller but still on the order of 1,000 a day.
They work well as, well, gifts. My aunt would mail my cousins and I Starbucks or McDonald's gift cards for Christmas since she lives far away. Amazon gift cards are typically good "all-purpose" gifts. This year a friend got me a gift card for a local used electronic media store for my birthday. Heck, last time we went to Costco my mom bought a gift card to I think a local high-end restaurant to give a friend.
They're overall low-effort presents and good for when you don't know the recipient's tastes too well.
I like the way this author writes. It flows very well and reads very easily.
I'm definitely a fan (most of his articles on Tildes were shared by me), but I think his writing style is overly clever and often hard to understand. This article is short, which helps.
"Patio11" is well known "popular economics" writer. If you like his style, you may also like Matt Levine and his Money Stuff newsteller (paywalled at bloomberg, but free at email).