So what's the VR scene like for the people who have invested into it?
I've only experienced VR at an escape room and a few hours on PS4VR, both in 2019.
The escape room was an amazing experience with a dedicated facility but held back by some cumbersome hardware. On the other hand, PSVR was interesting but lacking in flexibility and a little pointless with new hardware on the horizon.
Nearly bought a setup in lockdown but ran into decision paralysis. PSVR issues above; Index/HTC are a lot more expensive and would need a PC upgrade while Oculus is that sweetspot with price and portability but demands you interact with the Zuckerverse ecosystem.
And in the years since, from the outside it seems like a lot of the hype is just gone. There was a brief time where the Metaverse monopolized the discussion, soured everyone's appitite and promptly died. I've seen VRChat community have a tough time with some anti-player decisions. PS5 VR was hit with a big delay and considerable price tag on top of the console price. And lately with the summer games showcases, I only really recall Assassins Creed and Powerwash Sim VR as notable big budget experiences.
So I'm curious what the space is like for people who are committed to the experience. How often do you play? How locked in are you to an ecosystem? What are you playing and looking forward to? How is the hardware holding up? But most importantly, would you recommend people buying in now?
I wrote a little about headsets here. Since several headsets are being released in the coming months, if you aren't in a hurry it's probably best to wait (unless you want the PSVR2). If you decidedly don't want to wait, there are still plenty to choose from. My original headset (HTC Vive) lasted a little over four years of regular use after dying of multiple cumulative hardware failures, including an extremely mangled, not easily replaceable cable, so I finally bought a new headset earlier this year.
For the software platforms themselves your main choices are PSVR2, Quest and SteamVR (PC). In general there is no cross compatibility, but at least there is some competition. There may be methods for playing some Quest games in a SteamVR headset and all SteamVR games can be played in a Quest headset if connected to a PC. Some other vendors also have their own stores, way less competitive though.
VR is still fun. Some people stopped playing after the lockdowns, but I suspect many of those were playing reluctantly and would rather have been doing something else to begin with. It's possible that the recent evolution of the experiences available has been mainly incremental/iterative. Things like body and face haptics, face and eye tracking, body tracking, etc. have existed for years in some form now, they're just getting better. People keep making new games for VR, and a majority of those keeps disappointing, with developers outside the FPS genre often seeming to release their games half-baked. But there's still more to do than I have time for.
For social platforms, even though there are minor alternatives, VRChat remains largely unopposed in scale. As it's a closed platform with a culture of content exclusivity and monetization, this is a bad thing. For now almost everything in it is free (premium users get custom emojis now?) It's not going to be pretty when they do that thing investor funded startups do where they suddenly decide it's time to "exploit" their users, as reddit's spez would say. Currently, the platform's userbase has stagnated, likely due to the departure of quarantine-only users (you still see new users every day).
I
sweat buckets onplay Beat Saber every week. You can get a lot of mileage out of that type of game. I also play VRChat every week - there are dozens of things to do in there (including escape rooms). In addition, I'm currently playing in VR The Curious Tale of the Stolen Pets and Firmament.Really appreciate the in depth write up. Didn't even know many of those brands were options so I'll keep them in mind going forward.
I can see how a more limited audience/developer base would lead to slower innovation and unfinished projects. Also surprised there hasn't been any killer app outside the FPS space. Figured the medium would be ripe for a good RTS or asymmetric PvP.
The Curious Tale of the Stolen Pets and Firmament sounds lovely from the title alone.
The technical term is enshittification.
I've been into VR from the start (started with Oculus Rift DK1) but I've slowly started to lose interest in it. I've bought several headsets through the years, each one better than the last, but I feel like the games are not improving at the same rate. The games still look and feel mostly the same as they did at the start and I'm not seeing the improvements I was hoping for.
There are tons of shooting games, sword fighting games, music games and driving games out there. Too many to count. But only a few of those are actually good, even fewer are great.
I honestly couldn't recommend getting into VR unless you're really enthusiastic about it.
I blame Quest hardware limitations for that. Even SteamVR developers don't want to shut out more than half of their potential customer base as that would greatly impact the revenue potential of their game.
Unfortunately higher end hardware remains expensive (pandemic component shortages didn't help) which prevented those headsets from getting the momentum that might have convinced more developers to take that risk.
I, personally, am also waiting for better looking VR experiences. But I have a PC.
I'm on PC too. I agree, “Questification” as I call it is partly to blame here. Many VR games are multiplatform games with releases on Quest and Steam. Questification mostly affects the graphics but it's not just graphics that have stagnated, it's also game design in general. VR games rarely take advantage of all the possibilities VR offers. Game designers don't really get creative with it.
I don't think the pandemic has much to do with it. The lack of improvement in games predates the pandemic by a couple of years. At first, they developed rather quickly but at some point the games just stagnated and didn't really improve any further. If you take one of the first VR shooters like Arizona Sunshine and compare it to one of the latest you won't find much difference when it comes to game design. The pandemic might have actually been a good thing, a lot more VR headsets were sold during the pandemic than before.
But you know by far it was the Quest 2 that outsold everything else during the pandemic!
When I mentioned component shortages, I meant indirectly, as in how the various moving parts of a PCVR system have not really gotten cheaper. I can't prove for sure why the Index never went down in price, but even the Quest 2 became more expensive, which selling at a loss aside usually means massification failed to significantly bring down production costs, and there must be a reason for that. The impact of component shortages is clearly visible in things like GPU costs (high end graphics cards are essential for PCVR) or how the components for the SlimeVR became ridiculously more expensive. Even base stations became more expensive.
Effective game quality is affected by multiple factors. One of them is revenue potential. Better, shinier games require more developers and resources, so you need a larger playerbase to justify that investment. At first, game quality probably plateau'd because the playerbase just didn't exist, not to mention headset visual parameters weren't that high to begin with, so it didn't matter as much - we had a lot of indie developers who thought "hey, these people are starved for games, if I can make a fun simple thing on a low budget it might sell enough to cover that budget." Then, when we did get a lot more users, they were all using a headset with a relatively crappy CPU. So it's still a bad idea to invest on high end graphics that those users won't be able to enjoy, meaning no change in the status quo.
We need a headset with fast growing adoption like the quest 2, but much better graphics rendering capabilities. Apple might have done it, but they seem (so far) to have chosen to go down a notoriously gaming-unfriendly path.
I've had a Valve Index since 2020. The Index was my ideal choice at the time, and I'm glad I went with it despite the higher price. I already had a PC, PSVR had rather lackluster tracking and hardware, and I could never morally support Facebook. While HTC did have some offerings as well, their controllers just weren't anywhere near the Index's, and they also offered a worse screen.
I use it at least weekly, often more than that. I currently spend most of my VR time in one of three different games: Beat Saber, Blade & Sorcery, or VRChat.
Content is still somewhat of an issue for the VR space, though it is significantly better than before. Very few big-budget studios are making content for the platforms, so it is still mostly driven by the community or indie developers.
For that reason, I am very interested in the modding scene, and therefore have a really tough time recommending any non-PC headset. The PSVR2 is a great piece of hardware, but not having mods is a massive blow to it.
There are a lot of excellent mods that I've tried for existing non-VR games - and many of them blow AAA VR ports out of the water. Skyrim VR is barely playable, but with mods it can become something really special. The mods for Risk of Rain 2, Valheim, and Deep Rock Galactic are great too, and many allow crossplay with non-VR modded players too.
Overall, VR is not, and probably never will be for everyone. I don't feel like it's declining, though, it's just a bit more niche. It's also not really an experience that's easy to describe. My best recommendation is simply to try it somehow, and try to get a feel for an actual home setup rather than an arcade. Look up what games interest you in the scene, and try to find someone with those games.
I really enjoy it, and am still using it frequently - but I can't know if you'd be the type of person to use it for 1000+ hrs, or more like 10 hrs.
Got a Valve Index for my son about two years ago, the scene is surprisingly good, he’s still playing on it regularly and there’s quite a bit of content out there. He’s been playing a bunch of GorillaTag recently (you’re a gorilla and you move by moving your arms around and swinging off of stuff, interesting idea). You can also get access to some Oculus stuff via third-party apps and people have worked up VR versions of some popular games (Resident Evil 3 and Outer Wilds were two notable ones I’ve seen).
While there’s rumors that I’ve heard about Valve working on an Index 2, I’ve not seen anything substantial on that and Valve hasn’t really done much with their official apps in awhile, so not sure how things will be in that “ecosystem” in the years to come, but maybe Apple’s VisionPro will help as an “adjacent” device and spur the market forward. Otherwise, Valve’s ecosystem feels fairly open and not like a walled garden. The “most popular” VR chat-like app I’ve seen is maybe RecRoom (is there even chat?), since there’s non-VR versions of it, I think they co-exist, so it feels bigger than if it was strictly VR. VRChat just feels painfully empty and I don’t see the point to it.
Otherwise, the Oculus might be ok as a cheaper alternative, I just personally don’t want anything to do with Zuckerberg, so I avoided it like the plague. I’ve no experience with HTC Vice, but I’ve not heard anything bad about them.
If it helps, you can use VRChat without VR too. This has always been the case, for years.
How is Outer Wilds in VR? I get motion sick extremely easy when playing just running on ground. Falling through a black hole in Outer Wilds? I feel like I would spontaneaously combust!
... I still wanna try though.
It's a fun experience for an hour or two but I wouldn't play through the entire game in VR, just cause it's a little too disorienting at times. It's a really impressive mod though. Flying with your jetpack is fun. Using the signalscope and scout launcher handheld feels good. It's the one of the most native-feeling VR mods I've played.
You'll get motion sick pretty quickly with this one as well, given how crazy controlling anything can be, it's easy to get disoriented in that game. I still thought it was pretty interesting to play like that, though I probably wouldn't play like that for an extended period of time.
I'll quote my comment on the recurring thread of when I was testing it:
Former Quest 1 owner; current Index owner.
My Quest was basically just a Beat Saber machine, and I got hundreds of hours of enjoyment from that alone. My Index is slightly more versatile and I've done a few more things with it, but it's basically still a Beat Saber machine with some extras.
I think VR is good for specific niches. Like, I'm into VR rhythm games and fitness stuff. It's my daily exercise, and I've used my Index almost every single day since I got it back in November.
If I got it for general purpose gaming though, I think it would be collecting dust. I've tried a few "traditional" games out in it, and I've enjoyed what I've played, but once the novelty of the VR wears off, you run up against some limitations (teleporting to move is awkward, but so is joystick movement; handling things is awkward). There's a sort of latent clumsiness that you have to put up with or get used to because it never really goes away. It's not that VR isn't cool (it's cool as hell), it's that the stuff I've done outside of my niche has been nice-to-try but not must-play.
Finding your must-play niche (if you have one) is what should define your VR purchase (if any). For some people, it's flight sims. For some, it's sim racing. Other people have headsets exclusively for enjoying VRChat. I personally think the most exciting use of VR is in the fitness area, as it and Ring Fit Adventure are the only things in my life that get me up off the couch, sweating, and actually having fun while doing so.
While I'm thrilled with how much more robust my Index is and how much more is available to me on the SteamVR ecosystem (and also that I'm no longer in Meta's world), I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss the Quest's simplicity. Being able to use it anywhere or take it with me meant that I didn't have to actively design my home around my VR needs. My Index effectively claimed 80% of our home office for itself because of its setup requirements.
Meanwhile, I could use my Quest in the living room when people were over so they could try it. "Put on this headset" is also way less intimidating to newbies when it's just the headset and not a giant corded thing connected to a computer with base stations pointed at you making you feel like you're on stage or on camera or part of some weird science experiment. Also my home office is small enough that I can't really have spectators while I'm on the Index. Part of the fun of the Quest was playing it in a shared space and casting to the TV, so other people could watch and comment. Also cordless is genuinely way more comfortable than corded.
I get the impression that VR is in a bit of a holding pattern at the moment. There was a lot of energy in making it the new thing, and then it didn't really take off, so its river is flowing at more of a slow trickle rate than that of rushing rapids. That said, any new adopter now has years worth of VR content to experience, so you won't be starved for stuff to do -- it simply remains to be seen whether that stuff will be nice-to-have or must-play for you personally.
Do you like the Index for Beat Saber? I was never able to acquire one. But my Quest 2 is still my beat saber console and Im thinking of getting a Quest 3 when it becomes available.
Oh yeah and I'm back to playing the damn thing after a year long break. I'm so glad to have found a way to have the space again. I missed it! And the new Queen pack is amazing!!
FWIW I have Index controllers and I've had both a wired and wireless headset, so I'll write a bit about this.
I never really liked being tethered. Not having to deal with a cable is strictly an upgrade. You might find its presence annoying and distracting (and if you aren't used to keeping track of where it is, it can be a tripping hazard).
However, I feel - or I believe I can feel - the latency of the wireless connection, when playing over virtual desktop. It's especially notable in fast paced/dense maps, because after a certain threshold the interval between the notes can be shorter than the lag plus reaction time in such a way that when my body has feedback from having sliced a note, I've "already" (as far as the PC is concerned) missed the next note, which can be really disorienting and make me fail quickly. Have you noticed this? This phenomenon is definitely something I never noticed when I was wired.
As far as controllers are concerned, I 100% prefer the Index controllers. They're lightweight and track very well. You don't need finger tracking for Beat Saber, however the back strap that keeps the controller handle snug against the palm of your hand, even when your hand is open, is very useful if you use standard-ish grip. There are two control points for this strap - top and bottom, so you can set it just right for your hand and flick your wrist or "throw" the saber with much more confidence for quick, broad slices (Normally I'm grabbing the handle proper between the pad of my thumb and the side of my index finger, leaving it deliberately loose.)
They're starting to die of old age though so I may have to give the Pico controllers a serious extended try soon-ish.
Glad you're back into it! And I've been loving the Queen pack too. "Another One Bites the Dust" is so much fun.
In general I like the Index for Beat Saber.
Biggest downsides are the cord (which you get used to), the designated space requirement, and the fact that Meta doesn't really prioritize the Steam build of the game. For example: multiplayer has been broken for me for a while now, and I keep hoping they'll fix it, but it's been weeks at this point with no resolution.
Upsides include: controllers, resolution and framerate, and the ease of adding custom songs. Mods are also relatively easy to add, but they break every time the game updates, so you have to do some micromanagement or version rollbacks for extensive modded play. It wasn't until I started playing on the Index (and with prescription lens inserts) that I realized the song is called "Country Rounds" and not "Country Roads", for example. My bad eyes in a blurry Quest 1 just assumed it was the latter.
Also, my Quest 1 had a controller issue where one of them would drop out or hiccup every so often (maybe once every 10 minutes). It was a minor annoyance, and usually would be only for a fraction of a second, but it kept me from pushing for high scores or full-combos, since nothing was worse than losing a great run to something that wasn't my fault. With the Index, however, tracking is buttery smooth and precise, so I now can push myself on scores and combos, which adds a whole other level of fun to the game for me.
Also, I just generally like the SteamVR ecosystem way more than Meta's. I was already bought into Steam for pancake games, so adding VR to that felt right. I ended up rebuying everything I had on the Quest so I could play it on my Index through SteamVR.
The Index was a decent bump up from a Quest 1 for me (especially one with a glitchy controller), but I don't know if it'll be that much of an improvement over a Quest 2. Plus, rebuying the whole game + DLC is a sizable expense. I did it for Beat Saber, Synth Riders, and Audica, and the three of those together were hundreds of dollars alone.
You can combine the "best" of both worlds and use SteamVR over wifi!
Too bad you're also combining the worst of both worlds...
These days I no longer have the patience for the whole mod breaking dance. I use Beat Saber Legacy Launcher to run a fixed version of the game until it breaks in some way, then I upgrade to the latest version with a full complement of working mods (currently I'm on 1.29.0). I keep the song library on the main Beat Saber folder by turning the one on each of the fixed versions (CustomLevels) into a symbolic link pointing to it, and copy the mod settings (UserData) to the next version, which is usually hassle free (you just need to fix the version number on the IPA config file).
You can use BeatTogether servers for multiplayer, it's usually updated on time.
Same. I eagerly modded the game when I first got it, then it broke, then I tried to unbreak it and just made things messier, then I just got frustrated and reverted to vanilla and have kept it there. None of the mods I installed were super necessary anyway.
It does sound like you’ve got a smooth workflow for handling things, but I wish it were easier in general. With Beat Games being owned by Meta though, I doubt we’ll ever get mod-friendly builds.
I do wonder if one day we’ll see an open-source reimplementation of the game — something like Stepmania or Clone Hero. It’d be great for the game’s longevity, as who knows how long Beat Saber will even keep running. I’m already finding “dead” VR games on Steam that once worked but now won’t launch or don’t support newer hardware.
I had a similar initial VR experience to yours; we have a local arcade with some VR stuff, and my friend had a PSVR that I played some things on. VR seemed neat in theory, but in practice was more a novelty to me - cool, but not something I thought was worth heavily investing in at the time.
What flipped the script for me was Google Earth VR as experienced on another friend's Vive. It's really something else to be able to go to any place in the world and actually be standing there, looking around. Navigating the map has you flying over cities and landscapes like some kind of superhero. I remember sitting in the middle of a desert and watching the sun rise - the first one I'd seen in many years due to my work hours. And I remember being absolutely floored when, at the end of the tutorial, the whole earth "zooms out" until you are looking at it from space, where you float, suspended in the stars like every dream I ever had as a child about being an astronaut.
Shortly after that, I got hooked into Beat Saber as well, which I have now poured many hundreds of hours of my life into. It's unbelievably addicting and rewarding, and was also the only thing keeping me in shape for a while; the modding and custom map community is massive and incredible.
People talk about the VR marketplace not being big enough yet, but if not a single other thing existed in VR except Beat Saber and Google Earth, it would still be worth it for me.
As far as specific headsets, my Index was more than worth the investment for the controllers alone, which strap to your hands so that you can simply open and close your fingers instead of pressing buttons, and can see each individual finger move in VR. Base station tracking, which is what both the Index and Vive use, has always been seamlessly smooth for me, which is perhaps more important in VR than anything else for immersion and functionality, and I don't think I could ever be happy with a less expensive compromise.
Accurate. If it helps, their website says they're not available in my "region" (country) but I ordered mine from Germany and it works? I don't know if being outside the EU would be a problem for using their store (only really need it for Virtual Desktop - maybe using ALVR means the store is completely unnecessary too?)
It's interesting how whether a VR game is good as a game is so completely detached from what they look like. Some relatively crappy looking early games remain, as you say, incredible experiences. It's not just that people aren't making higher budget games, but I'd like to see more originality too (from studios, not single developers who can't really create something polished from a UX perspective).
I've got a quest and mainly just use it for pavlov shack although the overwhelming amount of just children being children on it has killed my enjoyment of it for a few months now.
I'm not really tied into facebook, I mostly use sidequest.
The kids can be annoying for adults to deal with, but at least I'm hopeful many of them will grow up to become adults who enjoy VR. It's a healthy demographic distribution for sure.
If you're in to simulators, vr is great right now. MSFS and DCS both have great vr support right now, and VTOL VR is a great supplement if you don't have the money for the bigger sims. I mainly only play flight sims these days, so I haven't kept up with other games. I do know H3VR is absolutely the best gun sim you can get right now, and it gets updates pretty much every Friday l.
Does DCS VR run more reasonably now? I remember when I was trying to get in, it demanded pretty crazy system requirements just to hit 40 fps on my index.
There is experimental support for multithreading now which has helped move the bottleneck from the CPU to the GPU.
It runs fine for me, but I do have a 3080ti. You're basically aiming to set your settings to get you to 40-45fps and then relying on motion smoothing to get you to 90.
I got a PSVR2 as my first VR Headset. (Just a tip for other new people to VR - getting a small headband and neck fan made a huge difference both for getting used to VR - or getting "legs" as many would say - and just being more comfortable in the headset.)
Have really enjoyed the catalog but definitely bought way too many games in the initial hype, will get to them eventually lol. Some of its new features make a big difference in games that are already on other platforms if they are updated properly from what I'm told.
Let me know if you have any specific questions about the PSVR2 and I'll try to answer them as best I can, overall its a great headset and has been very easy for a newcomer to get used to and enjoy.
I've had an Index for about two years now. I love it.
Mostly what I play is Synth Riders and other musical games - I get really into the game and it's just amazing.
I also play a lot of puzzles - recently I had a complete playthrough of Firmament, then before that I got most of the way through Myst... also smaller scale puzzle games like Waterbears, Zooma, etc. Walking simulators are also great! Just enjoying an amazing story in full VR. The game is too grim for me, but a friend basically had a breakdown and rebuilt themselves while playing Senua: Hellblade's Sacrifice.. (I didn't ask if substances were involved)
Some of the sword and magic games are good for a few minutes, but I can never get too into them, my reflexes aren't that good.
Standouts for me are:
Overall, I'd recommend VR to anyone that has the means... but maybe see if there's an arcade or used gear somewhere to test first.
Bought an Index in July 2019. I use it at least once a weekly, usually daily. It has been the only headset I've ever had and until another product comes out with the same amazing package of lighthouse tracking, premium controllers, high FOV, and good speakers I wont be getting rid of it. Next upgrade will be Nofio wireless adapter once those release.
I recently upgraded to my PC for no small expense to finally get constant 120fps VR gaming in nearly all games.
Played HL Alyx on a friends quest and it was amazing. I instantly wanted to get my own, but like you, not support suckerberg.
I have a powerful PC and dont want some closed source APP store based headset either. Just the typical display/tracking/headset device would be the best.
The Valve Index really interested me, but once I honestly reflected my wishes, I came to the conclusion that I would have primarily spent 1.2k€ to play Alyx.
Every now and then I look for used indexes, but they are still too expensive, sometimes even more expensive than on Steam itself.
Im sure I would find games I would like, but none that would really justify so much money.
I was already thinking about getting a used Quest 2 and block its internet access and only allow intranet to use it with Steam VR, but Im not sure if that even works. I see very conflicting info about that.
I can find some for 200€. For every now and then gaming and finally playing Alyx, it would be almost worth it for me. MSFS seems interesting, Elite Dangerous as well. The idea comes up every now and then for around a year already.
I can say for sure that my life is not worse off without one.
Check out the HP Reverb G2 V2. I've read on Reddit that the headset is much better than the Index, though the Index controllers are better. I bought the G2 for around $500 USD. This is my first headset, but I really like it. I can see some issues with the controllers, but hasn't bothered me much.... Then again I may not know what I'm missing.
Can confirm you can do this with the Pico 4. You can also move apks to it via usb and execute them in the headset hassle-free. You can even download firmware updates here and install them offline.
Thanks! I just ordered one and trying it out. The cheaper 128gb should suffice I think. I can still send it back when I am not happy with it. Fortunately, Steam sale is tomorrow, so alyx might be cheaper if im lucky.
I've been into it since PSVR days; I was worried I would consider it a fad for myself-- like I'd get into it and it'd collect dust.
My rationale for buying one at the time was I was struggling with some unusual medical issues that were keeping me indoors, so I figured I'd get VR and it'd satisfy the feeling of leaving the house.
It does collect dust for some weeks at a time, but every now and again I revisit it and I'm glad I do every time. I would recommend it if you:
I would not buy a VR if you:
No regrets on me buying the one(s) I did when I did, but as others have said, it does feel like it's due for a new milestone soon. Maybe the Vision Pro will help, we'll see.
I would like to see more flight sims with HOTAS support (No Man's Sky, where are you?); more AAA VR titles, I'm part of the problem in that I'd gladly shell out another $60 for an official port of the Dead Space remake or Alien Isolation (I know there's mods, it's not the same).
I really want to get a PSVR2, but I still don't see the content out for it.
I've been interested in VR since inception but I feel like it needs a AAA hit MMO (like WoW) or something to really make it mainstream.
Quest 2 is a good jumping in point, it has good standalone apps, but also works as a good PCVR headset either tethered or over WIFI.
I've had a Quest 2 for a few years now, BTW a while back they made it possible to have an oculus account that's decoupled from your Facebook account.
It's fun sometimes and the Quest 2 kind of brought the hardware into the affordable bracket for most techy people, but it feels for me that the technology is just not 100% there yet, like it gives a good idea of what's possible but a few things are missing. Each generation of hardware seems to be moving up though so maybe now especially with Apple getting in the ring we'll have more propagation and progress.
I also haven't touched mine in a few months because I have a kid now so all available play space for VR has been sacrificed to the gods of playmats and toys