I wonder how those games stay profitable. $220 million to develop TLoU II? The best titles on the market count sales in millions (singular, below 10) and not all of them are sold at full price. I...
I wonder how those games stay profitable. $220 million to develop TLoU II? The best titles on the market count sales in millions (singular, below 10) and not all of them are sold at full price. I think it becomes questionable whether spending so many years and so much money is worth it. Are they supposed to bring new customers to the PlayStation family rather than earn money on their own?
From a quick search it looks like TLoU 2 had sold 10 million copies as of last year with 4 million of those sales coming on release weekend. So assuming a conservative $60 for each of those first...
From a quick search it looks like TLoU 2 had sold 10 million copies as of last year with 4 million of those sales coming on release weekend. So assuming a conservative $60 for each of those first 4 million and $20 for the next 6 million your looking at $360M in revenue. Plus like you mentioned TLoU almost certainly led more people to buying consoles as well.
And not just buying consoles. A good game from a developer can lead to sales of their other games. Uncharted 4 was the first Naughty Dog game I'd played since Crash Bandicoot (I'm more of a...
And not just buying consoles. A good game from a developer can lead to sales of their other games. Uncharted 4 was the first Naughty Dog game I'd played since Crash Bandicoot (I'm more of a Nintendo/Xbox guy) and I loved it. My enjoyment of that game, and learning that Naughty Dog's big thing now is cinematic games led me to try out TLoU, which I loved even more. And then of course TLoU2 and the TV show.
Maybe Sony's exclusives are always like that, I don't really know the numbers. I was referring to games in general, like selling 3 million is good, selling 10 million copies is excellent and how...
Maybe Sony's exclusives are always like that, I don't really know the numbers. I was referring to games in general, like selling 3 million is good, selling 10 million copies is excellent and how Square Enix always whines about Tomb Raider ;)
I didn't know that TLoU sold that much. OK, so Sony knows what they're doing.
Sony's exclusives do seem to be like that. Looking at the Wikipedia list, (I'm aware it's not going to be fully accurate, but I think it's the best we can reasonably go off of) of the top 15 games...
Sony's exclusives do seem to be like that. Looking at the Wikipedia list, (I'm aware it's not going to be fully accurate, but I think it's the best we can reasonably go off of) of the top 15 games by units sold, 11 of them were sony exclusives - or were exclusive at the time of release. All of them sold 5 million+ copies, with 6 breaking 10 million (plus Ghost of Tsushima at 9.73 million) and God of War (2018) and Spider-Man (2018) being at 19.5 million and 20 million respectively.
Yes and no. Something like 60-70% (again numbers from a 10 second search so big grain of salt) of full game sales are digital downloads off of their own store.
Yes and no. Something like 60-70% (again numbers from a 10 second search so big grain of salt) of full game sales are digital downloads off of their own store.
I'm assuming a large proportion of 'development costs' would include marketing costs, which are usually pretty obscene. And can be scaled back heavily if the game isn't matching expectations. Not...
I'm assuming a large proportion of 'development costs' would include marketing costs, which are usually pretty obscene. And can be scaled back heavily if the game isn't matching expectations.
Not only that, it's hard to put a value on owning a massive global game franchise.. that can sell your console, and potentially end up with spin off TV programmes, films, merch etc. At that level I'd expect the value to be a billion or more.
It's an interesting look at some of the economics of the industry that we rarely get to see though.
Also from a platforms standpoint, having a multitude of games makes it easier for people to buy in to the platform and eventually purchase more games. Just because a few aren't suuper profitable,...
Also from a platforms standpoint, having a multitude of games makes it easier for people to buy in to the platform and eventually purchase more games.
Just because a few aren't suuper profitable, doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
If e.g. Spotify removed all but the most played artists/albums, they'd probably lose most subscribers to Tidal and Apple Music.
to be clear, the numbers in the document do not include marketing costs. you can probably add a cool $100 million to that number to get the dev+mkt costs but that’s just my guess
I'm assuming a large proportion of 'development costs' would include marketing costs, which are usually pretty obscene.
to be clear, the numbers in the document do not include marketing costs. you can probably add a cool $100 million to that number to get the dev+mkt costs but that’s just my guess
May or may not be a dumb question. But why did they redact physically with a marker? I've always assumed people would redact digitally, maybe on a PDF or something and then send that out. Is...
May or may not be a dumb question. But why did they redact physically with a marker?
I've always assumed people would redact digitally, maybe on a PDF or something and then send that out.
Is redacting it after printing, and the scanning it back in standard practice? Is that safer? If it wasn't something as see through as a Sharpie of course.
I've worked in a couple of fields where redaction was required, and I often used sharpie on printed paper for various reasons. It's fairly obvious holding the paper that the light still reflects...
I've worked in a couple of fields where redaction was required, and I often used sharpie on printed paper for various reasons. It's fairly obvious holding the paper that the light still reflects on the printer ink under the sharpie, so we'd always make a black and white copy (not grayscale) and send that out. That assures that the black areas are truly one undifferentiated block.
It's even more important to do this with white-out as that can flake right off.
Trying to redact digitally can have its own issues if you don't know what you're doing. I think there have been cases of just highlighting the text black rather than actually removing it, so it...
Trying to redact digitally can have its own issues if you don't know what you're doing. I think there have been cases of just highlighting the text black rather than actually removing it, so it can still be copied out of the document.
I think on either macOS or iOS, the default "marker" for annotating screenshots is semi transparent. It was always funny seeing reddit posts where someone tried to redact a username name, and you...
I think on either macOS or iOS, the default "marker" for annotating screenshots is semi transparent.
It was always funny seeing reddit posts where someone tried to redact a username name, and you could just see it by turning up your phone brightness.
Also there was a bug on Windows and Android that made it possible to recover the original image after doing a crop: https://acropalypse.app/
This seems to have been done digitally, not with a marker. The edges of the marks are too uniform; the top and bottom are perfectly straight and parallel, and the sides have symmetrical curves. My...
This seems to have been done digitally, not with a marker. The edges of the marks are too uniform; the top and bottom are perfectly straight and parallel, and the sides have symmetrical curves. My guess is that someone used a digital highlight tool set to black or near-black before printing it out, and didn't look very close afterward to make sure it worked.
Looking into this, I was just playing around with the markup tools in Preview (on a Mac) and noticed that it has a tool specifically intended for redaction. When you first select it, a warning pops up that it will permanently delete whatever content you draw over. There's also a pen tool you can select, and it similarly warns you that it isn't destructive, so if you're trying to redact something use the other tool instead. Kudos to Apple for thinking of that. I guess whoever was working on Sony's files wasn't using that particular app.
The link states that the FTC has been arguing the Switch is NOT a competitor to the PS5/Xbox. So are these numbers supposed to support that idea by saying look how many more folks own both PS5 and...
According to SIE internal surveys, almost half of PlayStation 5 owners in the United States also own a Nintendo Switch, while less than 20% of PlayStation 5 owners in the United States also own an Xbox Series X or S.
The link states that the FTC has been arguing the Switch is NOT a competitor to the PS5/Xbox. So are these numbers supposed to support that idea by saying look how many more folks own both PS5 and Switch vs PS5 and Xbox?
I find the question of Nintendo in this hearing is interesting. From my understanding, I don't see a significant difference between what Nintendo has done versus what Sony are accusing Microsoft of doing with their monopolizing with exclusivity and buying up publishers, but maybe I misunderstand the point. Nintendo used to be king of consoles and has always had self-published exclusive titles created by developers under Nintendo, but Sony and Microsoft still found a way into the market despite Nintendo's position and exclusive games.
It doesn't seem a stretch to say Valve is entering the console market through their Steam Deck, with other manufacturers following suit. I find it worth noting these consoles play games Microsoft puts on Windows without Microsoft developing for those consoles or those platforms running Windows.
For Microsoft to claim that the Switch competes against both Xbox and Playstation, you would expect more customers to own only one of the three. I don't think we can know what percentage of Xbox...
The link states that the FTC has been arguing the Switch is NOT a competitor to the PS5/Xbox. So are these numbers supposed to support that idea by saying look how many more folks own both PS5 and Switch vs PS5 and Xbox?
For Microsoft to claim that the Switch competes against both Xbox and Playstation, you would expect more customers to own only one of the three. I don't think we can know what percentage of Xbox owners have a Switch too, but even without that info Sony's data supports the FTC's position that the Switch is in its own category.
Anecdotally, I am a PS5 owner who also has a Switch (but no Xbox). This whole MS pity party rings false to me; of course, I'm upset with Microsoft for sucking up Obsidian and Bethesda and making their future releases exclusives, which is basically the same thing they're trying to fault Sony for doing, but from my perspective even more egregious). Whatever else comes out of this, I just hope I'm not still left in the dark by the time the next TES or Outer Worlds or Fallout New Vegas comes out.
OK that makes enough sense, thank you for spelling it out. To be clear, I'm not trying to throw MS "a pity party," the whole thing seems a bit absurd to me is all. I want games as accessible as...
OK that makes enough sense, thank you for spelling it out.
To be clear, I'm not trying to throw MS "a pity party," the whole thing seems a bit absurd to me is all. I want games as accessible as possible, and I doubt either corporation has that same interest.
Oh I wasn't referring to you there! I was being a bit glib about the lengths Microsoft's going to, to paint themselves as the poor downtrodden underdog.
Oh I wasn't referring to you there! I was being a bit glib about the lengths Microsoft's going to, to paint themselves as the poor downtrodden underdog.
I wonder how those games stay profitable. $220 million to develop TLoU II? The best titles on the market count sales in millions (singular, below 10) and not all of them are sold at full price. I think it becomes questionable whether spending so many years and so much money is worth it. Are they supposed to bring new customers to the PlayStation family rather than earn money on their own?
From a quick search it looks like TLoU 2 had sold 10 million copies as of last year with 4 million of those sales coming on release weekend. So assuming a conservative $60 for each of those first 4 million and $20 for the next 6 million your looking at $360M in revenue. Plus like you mentioned TLoU almost certainly led more people to buying consoles as well.
And not just buying consoles. A good game from a developer can lead to sales of their other games. Uncharted 4 was the first Naughty Dog game I'd played since Crash Bandicoot (I'm more of a Nintendo/Xbox guy) and I loved it. My enjoyment of that game, and learning that Naughty Dog's big thing now is cinematic games led me to try out TLoU, which I loved even more. And then of course TLoU2 and the TV show.
Maybe Sony's exclusives are always like that, I don't really know the numbers. I was referring to games in general, like selling 3 million is good, selling 10 million copies is excellent and how Square Enix always whines about Tomb Raider ;)
I didn't know that TLoU sold that much. OK, so Sony knows what they're doing.
Sony's exclusives do seem to be like that. Looking at the Wikipedia list, (I'm aware it's not going to be fully accurate, but I think it's the best we can reasonably go off of) of the top 15 games by units sold, 11 of them were sony exclusives - or were exclusive at the time of release. All of them sold 5 million+ copies, with 6 breaking 10 million (plus Ghost of Tsushima at 9.73 million) and God of War (2018) and Spider-Man (2018) being at 19.5 million and 20 million respectively.
That would be retail revenue right? The revenue to the studio would be less (1/2?)
Yes and no. Something like 60-70% (again numbers from a 10 second search so big grain of salt) of full game sales are digital downloads off of their own store.
I'm assuming a large proportion of 'development costs' would include marketing costs, which are usually pretty obscene. And can be scaled back heavily if the game isn't matching expectations.
Not only that, it's hard to put a value on owning a massive global game franchise.. that can sell your console, and potentially end up with spin off TV programmes, films, merch etc. At that level I'd expect the value to be a billion or more.
It's an interesting look at some of the economics of the industry that we rarely get to see though.
Also from a platforms standpoint, having a multitude of games makes it easier for people to buy in to the platform and eventually purchase more games.
Just because a few aren't suuper profitable, doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
If e.g. Spotify removed all but the most played artists/albums, they'd probably lose most subscribers to Tidal and Apple Music.
to be clear, the numbers in the document do not include marketing costs. you can probably add a cool $100 million to that number to get the dev+mkt costs but that’s just my guess
May or may not be a dumb question. But why did they redact physically with a marker?
I've always assumed people would redact digitally, maybe on a PDF or something and then send that out.
Is redacting it after printing, and the scanning it back in standard practice? Is that safer? If it wasn't something as see through as a Sharpie of course.
I've worked in a couple of fields where redaction was required, and I often used sharpie on printed paper for various reasons. It's fairly obvious holding the paper that the light still reflects on the printer ink under the sharpie, so we'd always make a black and white copy (not grayscale) and send that out. That assures that the black areas are truly one undifferentiated block.
It's even more important to do this with white-out as that can flake right off.
Trying to redact digitally can have its own issues if you don't know what you're doing. I think there have been cases of just highlighting the text black rather than actually removing it, so it can still be copied out of the document.
I think on either macOS or iOS, the default "marker" for annotating screenshots is semi transparent.
It was always funny seeing reddit posts where someone tried to redact a username name, and you could just see it by turning up your phone brightness.
Also there was a bug on Windows and Android that made it possible to recover the original image after doing a crop: https://acropalypse.app/
This seems to have been done digitally, not with a marker. The edges of the marks are too uniform; the top and bottom are perfectly straight and parallel, and the sides have symmetrical curves. My guess is that someone used a digital highlight tool set to black or near-black before printing it out, and didn't look very close afterward to make sure it worked.
Looking into this, I was just playing around with the markup tools in Preview (on a Mac) and noticed that it has a tool specifically intended for redaction. When you first select it, a warning pops up that it will permanently delete whatever content you draw over. There's also a pen tool you can select, and it similarly warns you that it isn't destructive, so if you're trying to redact something use the other tool instead. Kudos to Apple for thinking of that. I guess whoever was working on Sony's files wasn't using that particular app.
The link states that the FTC has been arguing the Switch is NOT a competitor to the PS5/Xbox. So are these numbers supposed to support that idea by saying look how many more folks own both PS5 and Switch vs PS5 and Xbox?
I find the question of Nintendo in this hearing is interesting. From my understanding, I don't see a significant difference between what Nintendo has done versus what Sony are accusing Microsoft of doing with their monopolizing with exclusivity and buying up publishers, but maybe I misunderstand the point. Nintendo used to be king of consoles and has always had self-published exclusive titles created by developers under Nintendo, but Sony and Microsoft still found a way into the market despite Nintendo's position and exclusive games.
It doesn't seem a stretch to say Valve is entering the console market through their Steam Deck, with other manufacturers following suit. I find it worth noting these consoles play games Microsoft puts on Windows without Microsoft developing for those consoles or those platforms running Windows.
For Microsoft to claim that the Switch competes against both Xbox and Playstation, you would expect more customers to own only one of the three. I don't think we can know what percentage of Xbox owners have a Switch too, but even without that info Sony's data supports the FTC's position that the Switch is in its own category.
Anecdotally, I am a PS5 owner who also has a Switch (but no Xbox). This whole MS pity party rings false to me; of course, I'm upset with Microsoft for sucking up Obsidian and Bethesda and making their future releases exclusives, which is basically the same thing they're trying to fault Sony for doing, but from my perspective even more egregious). Whatever else comes out of this, I just hope I'm not still left in the dark by the time the next TES or Outer Worlds or Fallout New Vegas comes out.
OK that makes enough sense, thank you for spelling it out.
To be clear, I'm not trying to throw MS "a pity party," the whole thing seems a bit absurd to me is all. I want games as accessible as possible, and I doubt either corporation has that same interest.
Oh I wasn't referring to you there! I was being a bit glib about the lengths Microsoft's going to, to paint themselves as the poor downtrodden underdog.