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Final Fantasy XVI is driving me nuts (no spoilers)
I'm a little over halfway through and I really have to force myself to keep playing it. Some of it is really cool and a lot of it drives me crazy. Sorry to rant a bit but a lot of the discourse online is extremely positive and I just wanted to let this out.
- So many cutscenes. They're pretty good cutscenes. The acting is largely very good, most characters are really enjoyable (although maybe one day FF will realize that antagonists can be multifaceted and not just generic evil badman). But so, so many hours of cutscene -- run over there -- cutscene -- go to the one map location that's unlocked -- cutscene.
- So much time wasting slow running around. Sometimes the maps are designed like a (linear) maze for apparent reason except to make it take longer to get somewhere. I see a quest marker and I just immediately "ugh" at how long it's going to take me to plod over there.
- And as a corollary to the above, exploration sucks. I learned very early on that there's no reason not to beeline to the next goal, so it makes the slow running that much worse. Dungeons are basically right out of FF XIV, which means one straight line and a very clear pattern of trash mob, trash mob, boss, rinse, repeat.
- The gear and stats are a non-entity. You go through the story, it more or less hands you periodic levels and gear. It feels like they thought including these things was obligatory, but for what they put in the game, they could have just not bothered.
- Combat is pretty fun! A little repetitive. A little samey. I wish there were more options for using all the skills you get. I have all these things I could unlock, but the very limited set of slots you get make they basically a non-option once you've picked the ones you like. The system just feels kind of half baked.
- And in that same vein, the big quick-time-event boss battles are neat too. I don't love them, because it feels a lot like I'm not playing a game anymore, but they do look pretty fantastic. Some of the latter ones go on for way too long. Just like, I was done with punching this fantastic looking beast 10 minutes ago.
- Maybe I haven't heard enough of it or listened long enough, but the music is disappointing. Which is sad because I love the tracks in XIV from the same composer. So much here is just ambient or otherwise underwhelming. A bunch of critical moments are just remixes on the classic theme, which is nice, but not really selling me on the new score overall.
I'm probably going to stick through to the end (slowly, with many breaks for Dave the Diver), at the very least because it was so expensive. I just wish it were better.
There's no shame in putting it down. A game shouldn't feel like a chore/job. I played about 70% of the game before uninstalling it for many of the reasons you already listed. I just YouTube'd the remainder of the storyline. It's the first final fantasy I haven't completed to the end.
I very much used to be in the mindset of "if I paid for this game, I must complete it." However, as I've gotten older, the lack of time to be able to stick to that has become increasingly more difficult. Even more difficult is coming to terms with the fact that I sometimes will just not complete a game nowadays. This is mainly due to sunk cost fallacy because I want my money and time spent to be "worth it" but ultimately, I've just been much happier moving on to the next thing rather than wasting more time with something that just wasn't keeping me engaged and interested.
Like you said, YouTube has basically become a godsend for scratching the itch to know how the rest of a story plays out but not caring enough to play it myself. I can just put it on while I'm doing something else and not feel like I wasted my time but still got what I wanted. FFXVI is really starting to feel like I'll go that route as well which is a bit disappointing. I had high hopes knowing that CBU3 was behind this being a big fan of FFXIV.
I wanted to do that at least with shorter indie games for the longest time, tbh.
Then I got the hot-mess-despite-a-good-idea that is Potionomics. Just could not be arsed with that one, despite utterly enjoying the presentation, the core potioning and the characters. But the gameplay loop was not only insanely repetitive, it was so in all the wrong ways since it was never about business optimization, only ever time optimization. It's a shame my love for Recettear suckered me into buying it.
But, it did teach me that no game is short enough, cheap enough, pricey enough or "talked about" enough to not drop it when it's no longer fun. Time is a precious resource, no reason to spend it on stuff that's not fun.
Oof. Yeah, you nailed my exact thoughts about Potionomics. I wanted to love that game so much. It needs like an endless mode or something that isn't such a chore to play. I loved Reccetear, too. Should have borrowed more from that.
Sounds like most AAA games these days... They feel the need to be a certain scope in terms of level sizes and gameplay features, when the game they wanted to make doesn't need those things, so it all feels so unnecessary. This is an unfortunate side effect of games not having as many technical limitations as back in the day like on SNES or PS1.
I guess, although to be fair to AAA, I just came off of nearly 100%-ing Tears of the Kingdom. That one is similarly a lot in terms of size and scope. It's just that the systems and gameplay really worked for me in a way that made me want to stay engaged. And I do sometimes like some of the excesses of the AAA format in FF XVI. The production quality of the cinematics and the over-the-top boss moments can be great and I wouldn't want that to just never happen in a game. I just wish I liked this particular package a little more than I do.
But I'll agree, I do think there's a lot to be said for smaller games. But also I think that's where indie games are filling in the gaps. I mostly really enjoyed Chained Echoes earlier this year, which felt very much like it could have been an unreleased SNES game.
That's what I was talking about when I said "most AAA games". Some like Nintendo flagships can do something with the systems and the bigger scope, and wouldn't be the same on a smaller scale. Also, some games end up only really warranting either the scope or the gameplay complexity. Sometimes the cinematics and huge levels add to a game, it's just the inventory mechanics which can feel like they don't add anything, as you said in the post.
Having the opposite experience, I love this new version of Final Fantasy. Can't get enough of it to be honest, although I'm also not trying to rush through it. I'll spend a couple of hours a night doing side quests or driving through the main story.
I wish there was more you could do with the gear, and it was more interesting. But the biggest thing it's missing is variation. You're either fighting, travelling, or watching a cutscene. Where's my random card game? Where's the DDR dance sequence?
That's good. I'm honestly glad you're liking it. It definitely feels epic at times.
Yeah, hard not to think this might have had some small impact on my experience. I think a lot of miscellany that makes these big RPGs fun, including previous FFs, has been jettisoned here in favor of maintaining a very serious grimdark tone throughout.
Loved it too but this is definitely my main issue with FFXVI. There is absolutely nothing to do except story quests and sidequests that scream "we're the same guys that did XIV". No reason to come back to the game after beating the story outside of a second playthrough.
It almost feels more like a movie with occasional playable sequences, especially with the hours of cutscenes. I don't mind that approach too much, because I thought the cutscenes were mostly awesome and liked the story, but they could've thrown in a minigame or something...
Taking breaks is the way.
How far are you in the story? Remember that you can use a mount outside towns (not that its that much faster).
This has definitely been a slow burn of a game for me as well, loving the story but it does tend to drag between the big story moments. There is an argument to be made about giving the player time to cool off and digest but some main story quests really feel like they could've been cut.
IMO, ideally of the game. Playing something else instead. Really sounds like OP isn't enjoying it much at all, and frankly it's never too late or too much of a waste to drop a game entirely.
Time > money. Your time isn't worth playing a game you're not enjoying. Ever.
I mean, I pretty much agree. I've definitely dropped plenty of games in the past. I was very close to dropping this one after my first play session. I think it's just that, despite my many complaints, it's sometimes fun. I kind of want to see what happens next, and I'll enjoy playing through some part of it. It's just that then I'll inevitably be reminded of all the stuff that sucks about it and need another break. More frustrating than just if it was pure trash.
I've got the mount. I do use it as soon as it's available outside of towns and it's a little better. But there's also a ton of running back and forth within town areas where it's not available.
I think I'm somewhere around 65%. And yeah, taking breaks seems to be the way to go.
Appreciate this is only tangentially related to your post, but I’m a bit surprised by your comment “maybe one day FF will realize that antagonists can be multifaceted and not just generic evil badman”. I would have suggested trying FF14 since its antagonists definitely fit the bill. But the rest of your comment suggests you are familiar with FF14. In what ways do FF14’s antagonists disappoint you?
Fair, this totally does not apply to FF14. Some of the baddies in that are the absolute best.
minor spoiler
Running around with Emet-Selch in Shadowbringers is my fave.There are examples outside of XIV as well. Have you played many FF titles outside of these two?
I said in my comment that FFXIV has ups and downs though. Antagonists like Gaius or Zenos are the most typical jRPG bad-guy fare. Zenos in fact you could almost call a caricature of the trope since he's overdone even by jRPG standards.
But you're right in that they also have baddies such as most named Ascians, Meteion or Zodiark, which are really really well done.
To be honest all of ARR's story was about as generic JRPG as you get and not even in a fun way. Gaius is just one of many of example of ARR having about as few original ideas as is possible for a JRPG story.
I could only play for a day or two before my hands just hurt. I started right after launch and I needed dodge to be O, so I was stuck with controller scheme B. I think having to use R1 for basic attacks killed my wrist. They really needed fully customizable mappings.
As you progress you unlock the ability to have O be dodge or block/counter. Initially you get teleport, then a grapple hook like move.
I thought it was weird having dodge be on R1 and there not being a dedicated parry button, but it’s because the Eikon abilities have different functions that can include dodge/block/teleport and some other stuff.
I really enjoyed the game, thought the combat was good, the limited eikon and ability slots initially annoyed me, but I feel like that encourages you to try out different builds. I think the story and voice acting was top notch.
My only complaints would be the combat being too easy (it definitely doesn't help that I finished FF: Stranger in Paradise right before it) and the lack of variety/side activities (as mentioned by Skombie ). The lack of difficulty also took away a lot of impetus to do all the hunts and get gear upgrades. I realize the NG+ has a "Final Fantasy Mode" (stupid name) that has increased difficulty, but I am just not the guy that wants to spend another nearly identical 50+ hours on a game after spending 50+ hours on a game.
I didn't play FFXVI because I don't have a PS5. But I went over to my friend's place and watched him play. He's pretty far into the game already.
I ended up feeling like I wasn't missing anything. The cut scenes were painful.
The 3D model character's acting were stiff, the script was stereotypical and painful. The cutscenes were also insanely slow. It had weird pauses inbetween each sentence that it didn't need. I felt like if they x2 the speed or something, it might work better.
My friend was saying I was unfortunate. That I just ended up watching some of the worst parts of the game so far. It's been pretty okay up till then and he still likes the story.
But he's pretty far into the game, I wouldn't be happy having sunk many hours and for that to be the payoff.
I thought the music was underwhelming as well. There are two songs from the Orchestrion that I really like: Twilight and Histoire. And there are some other piano pieces that tend to be played during cutscenes that I really enjoy. I just don't know the names of them. But otherwise, the music was just OK.
There were none that I disliked. And I thought much of the music was paired well with what was going on visually and thematically. But unlike in past FF entries, where I can listen to whole OSTs, those are really the only two I thought worth remembering. I only played those two in the Hideaway.
Agreed on the exploration; while I did unveil the whole map and got an achievement for it, by the end, I was just like "OK, touch the unexplored area...and boom it's unveiled on the map, let's move on." Sure there were some chests out there, but most of the time they were just junk loot.
And I felt the same with the equipment, particularly the accessories. For the majority of the game, I used the same three accessories: 40% bonus to healing, +40 defense, and one that increases attack with each successful dodge. Every once in awhile, I'd swap out healing bonus for something else, but then go right back afterwards. I kinda did something similar with the Eikons.
Overall, I did enjoy the game. But it definitely had its flaws.
Everything to do with the MSQ I've generally enjoyed, and I can attribute much of my enjoyment of the game overall to the combat. I do agree that once you pick favourites in terms of Eikons it's a tough sell to switch, and I gravitate towards any that have good countering capabilities. Mastering an ability such that you can apply it to any Eikon is somewhat of an alleviation, at least. It's a bit like style-switching in Devil May Cry, which I always thought would work well in an action-focused Final Fantasy game, but with jobs (e.g. Strangers of Paradise) instead of summons.
I had also been doing all of the side quests as and when they became availabile before pushing forward with the story, as I'm the type to leave no stone unturned on a first playthrough. I think these are generally well-acted in the voice acting sense, but animations are very stilted. I don't expect miscellaneous questing to be like something out of Advent Children, but I've seen better back-and-forths for inconsequential quests in other games. What caused me to pause my playthrough however, was that at the very last hurdle there is a rather egregious quantity of these dumped on you, enough to make me audibly sigh. Since I'd done them all up to that I point, I may as well tackle them when I'm ready to.
The areas, while nice looking, have nothing to do in them outside of whatever marker it is on the map you're trying to get to. Hunts are fun, probably the only side activity I would deem as such, but having them and other side quests exist in these spaces is their only purpose. When they're done, there's no reason to visit them. The issue is exacerbated by the fact they're annoying to traverse rather than the traversal itself, because the areas within areas are all interconnected by corridors with invisible walls. There's no jumping over gaps on a Chocobo that the game doesn't want you to.
Despite these complaints, I enjoyed the game. I certainly wouldn't deem it an outright disappointment. I've played far worse cookie-cutter AAA games in recent years. I think aspects of the game are not a bad blueprint for further action-focused titles, if they decide to make them, including the Asura's Wrath-esque boss fights if for no other reason than the fantastic spectacle of them.
The game’s highlight is the combat and I think unfortunately the way to play it is to avoid everything else.
If you’re looking for big damage I know of one method but it contains late game spoilers regarding your abilities. Nothing you wouldn’t be able to guess on your own, but still.
There’s also a new game plus with extra difficulty availability.
Is FFXVI a good game? Um, there’s a good game in there with the combat and the main overarching villain. But the game is plagued with a lot of real lazy padding and terrible dialogue.
Thanks for the detailed feedback. Normally, power leveling and optimization and maxing out abilities would be what I'm most interested in. But there's very little incentive to engage with that stuff here unfortunately. If I do finish, it'll probably more or less be a rush right through the main quests.
It’s more enjoyable to main line since all of the abilities that are good are behind story unlocks.
I liked the game a lot myself. I didn't really mind the cutscene-heaviness personally; I loved the story and characters, and after a couple hours I kind of saw what kind of game this was going to be and started thinking of it more like a movie with combat sequences. To be honest eventually I was just wanting the gameplay segments to be over with so I could get back to my cutscenes. But if you can't bear a lot of cutscenes, I can see this game being hell to get through.
The boss fights were really the highlight for me, especially the ones in which you play as Ifrit. They must be some of the coolest boss fights I've ever done, and I think Bahamut must solidly be my new favourite boss fight of all time. They're absolutely stunning visually, for one, especially on a 4k HDR display, and I personally thought the music was great and added a lot to the fights. The Phoenix battle could never have been that intense feeling without the music. Even at times when the rest of the gameplay or the story was feeling like a bit of a slog, I would keep going because I knew that there would be an awesome boss fight coming up. The combat might not have been particularly complex (in the whole game really, but especially as Ifrit), but they make playing the eikon battles feel so great that you can ignore that what you're doing is essentially just mashing a couple buttons and dodging every now and then.
Overall I think XIV had the better soundtrack; XVI's big budget is definitely evident in its soundtrack but outside of the boss battles and ending song (which still gets a tear out of me nearly a month after beating it :,D ) nothing is particularly interesting or memorable sounding. There isn't any song from the game I didn't like, nor did I ever feel the desire to mute the music and put a song or video of my own on, but there's only a few tracks I really liked enough to want to put on a playlist or something, while even some plain old overworld music from XIV has made it into my personal favourite songs.
One major issue I have with the game were that there really isn't very much to do outside of the main storyline. Most of the sidequests aren't anything special and there aren't any minigames or anything. You can go for the best weapons, but what's the point if there aren't even any optional superbosses to use them on? There's absolutely no reason to revisit a finished save file in 16.
Another problem is that it really shows that the people who made this game are the same ones who worked on XIV, and rarely in a good way. Sometimes it feels like playing offline XIV with a bigger budget and action combat. The side quests are very MMO fetch quest, and the dungeons are structured in almost the exact same way; corridoors with a few twists and turns to mask the fact that you're going down a straight line filled with trash enemies that are fought in the exact same way as literally every other dungeon's enemies and a couple forgettable minibosses (but at least XIV's forgettable minibosses are different each time!). It works fine in an MMO where anything with more than one possible route or tangents to go on can, will, and has been optimised down to one most efficient route, but a dungeon in a single player RPG should have more substance to it than "meat grinding hall".
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. If you were really into the bosses and the cutscenes, I can see this being a big hit. Where I am now is basically, I wouldn't mind finishing up the story (i.e. treating the rest like a long movie I can watch while doing something else during the lulls). But I'm a little over most of the rest of it. Teetering between YouTubing the rest and just pushing through. We'll see.
I guess given the FFXIV people were involved, this was to be expected. It would swing harder either way.
Sure, the FFXIV makers created such amazing evil characters as Emet-Selch and Meteion. But they also created the most general jRPG flick like Zenos or Gaius. Ups and downs, swinging really far either direction but never being somewhere in the middle.
Though overall, and my line about the bad examples there already hinted at it I suppose, jRPGs in general still struggle really hard with not all using the same bad guy just reskinned. It's all the Hitler-literally-eating-babies variant of morale compass, and always done in an overdone manner in voice and writing, too. It's like what Vancouver productions do with trying to outdo each other with overly shitty computer stuff, jRPG makers do with extremely lame and badly implemented bad guys.
I'm pretty much 100% aligned with your impression so far. It got so repetitive to me (run around, boss battle, cut scene, repeat) that I have put it on indefinite hold. I'll get back to it some day, but it's really not making me excited to pick the controller up right now.
It just feels as if there is no typical RPG depth to this one.
I played 13 and 15 and the cutscenes comment of yours was present in both of those two and has kinda kept me away from 16 as well (the demo reinforced that).
Most "narrative" driven games seem a bit plagued by this right now. Some people love it I guess.
I actually really loved 15 for the first, maybe 50% of it, before I fell off. I think if they had a complete and coherent story at launch, it might have been one of my favorites. There were cutscenes for sure, but a lot of dialogue also happened while you were running around in the open world, or doing some other task. Also, between those cutscenes, there was so much stuff to do that wasn't just running to the next cutscene.