As much of a tragedy as this is, I can't say I'm surprised. File hosting sucks, and they gave out a LOT of bandwidth for free. Here's hoping it gets archived.
As much of a tragedy as this is, I can't say I'm surprised. File hosting sucks, and they gave out a LOT of bandwidth for free. Here's hoping it gets archived.
As soon as Dark0ne intentionally didn't mention the acquiring company's name I figured it was private equity or something equally bad for the Nexus Mods community. :/ And one post in particular...
As soon as Dark0ne intentionally didn't mention the acquiring company's name I figured it was private equity or something equally bad for the Nexus Mods community. :/
And one post in particular from that Restera thread you linked to that I think is especially worth highlighting is this one... Which links to this post by Victor Folmann, co-founder/CEO of Chosen, and his "gaming startup monetization cheat sheet". If that is the kind of shit they are planning to do to monetize Nexus Mods then I weep for its future.
I don't blame Daek0ne for wanting to get out. I'm sure that was years of strain and at some points more of an expense than anything. But it's a real shame the changing of hands is probably to one...
I don't blame Daek0ne for wanting to get out. I'm sure that was years of strain and at some points more of an expense than anything. But it's a real shame the changing of hands is probably to one that doesn't have the best interests of the site in mind.
To be honest, I am not quite sure these sorts of projects ever end up in the "right" hands when acquired. If they do, it is probably quite rare. Products like Nexus Mods aren't born out of an idea...
To be honest, I am not quite sure these sorts of projects ever end up in the "right" hands when acquired. If they do, it is probably quite rare. Products like Nexus Mods aren't born out of an idea for a profitable product to begin with, so they often struggle to break even due to the nature of it. Finding a party that is equally passionate about the core project and understanding at the limited revenue stream simply is a hard ask.
Not to mention that even if those parties are out there they get overshadowed by others who see a platform with a lot of users to data harvest, throw ads at, etc. I never ran a project this successful, but I was one of the founders of a moderately successful open source browser extension. Since Google requires you to have a email listed on the chrome store I got a lot of "offers" on that mail. Ranging from companies offering to "partner" with us, meaning they wanted to inject their own code for whatever purpose to outright offers to buy the extension.
I can only imagine the sort of offers Dark0ne received over the years in that regard. Given the costs involved I also think I might be more temped if I were in their shoes as well.
Since their choice of possible new owners likely was mostly companies like private equity firms.
It was good while it lasted. The way that post is written fills me with absolutely 0 confidence about the site's future. What alternatives are out there aside from retailer-specific options (e.g....
It was good while it lasted. The way that post is written fills me with absolutely 0 confidence about the site's future. What alternatives are out there aside from retailer-specific options (e.g. Steam Workshop) and the odd game-specific forum?
The only other viable alternative I've heard of is ModDB; I also heard about a new platform that was created in response to Nexus' censorship of mods that remove pride flags but last I checked it...
The only other viable alternative I've heard of is ModDB; I also heard about a new platform that was created in response to Nexus' censorship of mods that remove pride flags but last I checked it was a bit of a cesspit.
I've heard Wabbajack is great for automated download of modlists/collections, but unless things have changed I believe the files are downloaded from Nexus regardless - so unless you have a premium Nexus subscription it'll be unbearably slow.
mod.io is an up-and-comer. They've integrated directly with some games (Deep Rock Galactic and Baldur's Gate 3 being the two I play), which definitely helps with adoption. I don't hold high hopes...
mod.io is an up-and-comer. They've integrated directly with some games (Deep Rock Galactic and Baldur's Gate 3 being the two I play), which definitely helps with adoption. I don't hold high hopes for the site's quality and usability long-term (commercial interests and all), but I don't feel particularly confident about NexusMods right now either.
Ah, I anticipate that we'll be getting to the "fun" part of Nexus Mods' ToS soon. I suspect this is going to become a similar situation to all the wikis struggling to migrate off of Fandom....
Ah, I anticipate that we'll be getting to the "fun" part of Nexus Mods' ToS soon. I suspect this is going to become a similar situation to all the wikis struggling to migrate off of Fandom.
Relevant part of the Nexus Mods ToS is quoted below:
When you upload or post content to our site, you grant us the following rights to use that content:
a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, transferable licence to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform that user-generated content in connection with the service provided by the website and across different media including to promote the site or the service forever;
a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, transferable licence for our partners and advertisers to use the content for their purposes and in accordance with the functionality of the site forever;
a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, transferable licence for other users to use the content for their own recreational purposes only and in accordance with the purpose of the site (that is, to enable users to download video game mods for their personal use and enjoyment) forever.
In particular, we may retain your content indefinitely and are not obliged to delete your content if you so request. The rights you grant us continue after this agreement is terminated or your access to the site is withdrawn by us.
That is an incredibly permissive license to modders' work. In fact, while I'm not a lawyer, I believe it waives all of the protections copyright normally grants creators over their work.
Oh, and of course this license is conveniently transferable so when they're acquired by an evil equity firm all the IP they've collected rights to is part of the deal.
Disclaimer: not a lawyer, also I only read the quoted piece of the ToS. It is non-exclusive at least, which if my understanding is correct, should allow modders to host their mods elsewhere if...
Disclaimer: not a lawyer, also I only read the quoted piece of the ToS.
It is non-exclusive at least, which if my understanding is correct, should allow modders to host their mods elsewhere if game modding communities are going to jump ship, it's just that it'll be impossible to stop nexus from distributing the versions of the mods they already have.
Speaking of versions, it also seems like the ToS applies specifically to what you upload to nexusmods, so if everyone stops uploading new versions, they'd be stuck with out of date versions pretty quickly and I'd hope communities on reddit and forums who recommend mods would point them to new versions available elsewhere.
For example, say you upload "zkxs' skyrim mod version 1.0" to nexusmods, and then you jump ship and upload "zkxs' skyrim mod version 2.0" to new-mod-website later, the way this chunk of the ToS is written it would suggest that nexusmods only has these rights to the 1.0 version you uploaded to nexusmods. I think they shouldn't be able to go elsewhere and get a copy of 2.0 and start distributing it too. Sure they've got the right to prepare derivative works of what they have, but what are they gonna do, mass takeover everyone's abandoned mod versions to try to update them to match new versions? I doubt they have the means to do that.
Anyway, yes this ToS sucks pretty major ass for modders in this situation for sure, I can see modders who jumped ship getting frustrating criticism and support requests for old versions they can't remove from nexusmods, but I don't think it's bad enough that it kills projects outright or prevents modders from jumping ship and distributing elsewhere if an alternative comes up.
Real challenge is the infrastructure costs and requirements (bandwidth, storage, etc) of making a replacement.
Hm. And I just got the reminder that my annual subscription was going to renew. I don't think I'll change for now, but I'm definitely not feeling as good about paying it regardless of how much I'm...
Hm. And I just got the reminder that my annual subscription was going to renew. I don't think I'll change for now, but I'm definitely not feeling as good about paying it regardless of how much I'm using it if the profit is going to be leeched off to the new owners.
I don't think FOSS is going to do anything. Hosting files is tablestakes technology at this point. Someone can whip up a nexus-mods prototype in an afternoon. The issue is that bandwidth gets...
I don't think FOSS is going to do anything. Hosting files is tablestakes technology at this point. Someone can whip up a nexus-mods prototype in an afternoon.
The issue is that bandwidth gets expensive at a point. Additionally, a modding site requires a great deal of human intervention. You need to be able to handle takedown requests from IP holders. You need to have a moderation team and a set rules to deal with the inevitable porn mods, child torture mods, and whatever else may be problematic in your jurisdiction (or just against your personal ethics).
It's not something that anyone will want to do for free at a large scale.
Tbh I feel these scenes work best when small and disparate anyway. These are some of the most prone sites to be taken down, so it works best as a hydra than as one centralized monolith. I know...
Tbh I feel these scenes work best when small and disparate anyway. These are some of the most prone sites to be taken down, so it works best as a hydra than as one centralized monolith.
I know people like to have all their eggs in one basket, but the current structures just don't support it properly
Serious question, I'm not familiar with the scale of the numbers involved: how much better does it get if you just slap bittorrent-or-similar over it, and only fall back to HTTP if there aren't...
Serious question, I'm not familiar with the scale of the numbers involved: how much better does it get if you just slap bittorrent-or-similar over it, and only fall back to HTTP if there aren't enough seeds?
The worst of it will be very popular mods for very popular games, and "distributing very popular things that many people have a copy of" seems like the kind of thing p2p file sharing would be best at.
This is exactly what I was thinking. P2P seems like it would mitigate a big portion of the expense. I'm sure there are flaws and problems with that solution, but it seems doable
This is exactly what I was thinking. P2P seems like it would mitigate a big portion of the expense. I'm sure there are flaws and problems with that solution, but it seems doable
Some fans tracked the buyer to an equity firm. If true that is not a good sign for the site in the future.
As much of a tragedy as this is, I can't say I'm surprised. File hosting sucks, and they gave out a LOT of bandwidth for free. Here's hoping it gets archived.
As soon as Dark0ne intentionally didn't mention the acquiring company's name I figured it was private equity or something equally bad for the Nexus Mods community. :/
And one post in particular from that Restera thread you linked to that I think is especially worth highlighting is this one... Which links to this post by Victor Folmann, co-founder/CEO of Chosen, and his "gaming startup monetization cheat sheet". If that is the kind of shit they are planning to do to monetize Nexus Mods then I weep for its future.
I don't blame Daek0ne for wanting to get out. I'm sure that was years of strain and at some points more of an expense than anything. But it's a real shame the changing of hands is probably to one that doesn't have the best interests of the site in mind.
To be honest, I am not quite sure these sorts of projects ever end up in the "right" hands when acquired. If they do, it is probably quite rare. Products like Nexus Mods aren't born out of an idea for a profitable product to begin with, so they often struggle to break even due to the nature of it. Finding a party that is equally passionate about the core project and understanding at the limited revenue stream simply is a hard ask.
Not to mention that even if those parties are out there they get overshadowed by others who see a platform with a lot of users to data harvest, throw ads at, etc. I never ran a project this successful, but I was one of the founders of a moderately successful open source browser extension. Since Google requires you to have a email listed on the chrome store I got a lot of "offers" on that mail. Ranging from companies offering to "partner" with us, meaning they wanted to inject their own code for whatever purpose to outright offers to buy the extension.
I can only imagine the sort of offers Dark0ne received over the years in that regard. Given the costs involved I also think I might be more temped if I were in their shoes as well.
Since their choice of possible new owners likely was mostly companies like private equity firms.
Fyi, it now has become clear that the buyer is a company called chosen, see also the pinned comment under the announcement post. They at least claim to be different from private equity, but that remains to be seen of course.
It was good while it lasted. The way that post is written fills me with absolutely 0 confidence about the site's future. What alternatives are out there aside from retailer-specific options (e.g. Steam Workshop) and the odd game-specific forum?
The only other viable alternative I've heard of is ModDB; I also heard about a new platform that was created in response to Nexus' censorship of mods that remove pride flags but last I checked it was a bit of a cesspit.
I've heard Wabbajack is great for automated download of modlists/collections, but unless things have changed I believe the files are downloaded from Nexus regardless - so unless you have a premium Nexus subscription it'll be unbearably slow.
Something similar to CKAN is probably the way to go.
Let others handle the hosting, and host a repository of metadata on GitHub for example.
mod.io is an up-and-comer. They've integrated directly with some games (Deep Rock Galactic and Baldur's Gate 3 being the two I play), which definitely helps with adoption. I don't hold high hopes for the site's quality and usability long-term (commercial interests and all), but I don't feel particularly confident about NexusMods right now either.
Ah, I anticipate that we'll be getting to the "fun" part of Nexus Mods' ToS soon. I suspect this is going to become a similar situation to all the wikis struggling to migrate off of Fandom.
Relevant part of the Nexus Mods ToS is quoted below:
That is an incredibly permissive license to modders' work. In fact, while I'm not a lawyer, I believe it waives all of the protections copyright normally grants creators over their work.
Oh, and of course this license is conveniently transferable so when they're acquired by an evil equity firm all the IP they've collected rights to is part of the deal.
Disclaimer: not a lawyer, also I only read the quoted piece of the ToS.
It is non-exclusive at least, which if my understanding is correct, should allow modders to host their mods elsewhere if game modding communities are going to jump ship, it's just that it'll be impossible to stop nexus from distributing the versions of the mods they already have.
Speaking of versions, it also seems like the ToS applies specifically to what you upload to nexusmods, so if everyone stops uploading new versions, they'd be stuck with out of date versions pretty quickly and I'd hope communities on reddit and forums who recommend mods would point them to new versions available elsewhere.
For example, say you upload "zkxs' skyrim mod version 1.0" to nexusmods, and then you jump ship and upload "zkxs' skyrim mod version 2.0" to new-mod-website later, the way this chunk of the ToS is written it would suggest that nexusmods only has these rights to the 1.0 version you uploaded to nexusmods. I think they shouldn't be able to go elsewhere and get a copy of 2.0 and start distributing it too. Sure they've got the right to prepare derivative works of what they have, but what are they gonna do, mass takeover everyone's abandoned mod versions to try to update them to match new versions? I doubt they have the means to do that.
Anyway, yes this ToS sucks pretty major ass for modders in this situation for sure, I can see modders who jumped ship getting frustrating criticism and support requests for old versions they can't remove from nexusmods, but I don't think it's bad enough that it kills projects outright or prevents modders from jumping ship and distributing elsewhere if an alternative comes up.
Real challenge is the infrastructure costs and requirements (bandwidth, storage, etc) of making a replacement.
Hm. And I just got the reminder that my annual subscription was going to renew. I don't think I'll change for now, but I'm definitely not feeling as good about paying it regardless of how much I'm using it if the profit is going to be leeched off to the new owners.
Hopefully that will motivate people to come up with a viable FOSS alternative. Or at the very least a decent alternative that breaks the monopoly.
I don't think FOSS is going to do anything. Hosting files is tablestakes technology at this point. Someone can whip up a nexus-mods prototype in an afternoon.
The issue is that bandwidth gets expensive at a point. Additionally, a modding site requires a great deal of human intervention. You need to be able to handle takedown requests from IP holders. You need to have a moderation team and a set rules to deal with the inevitable porn mods, child torture mods, and whatever else may be problematic in your jurisdiction (or just against your personal ethics).
It's not something that anyone will want to do for free at a large scale.
Tbh I feel these scenes work best when small and disparate anyway. These are some of the most prone sites to be taken down, so it works best as a hydra than as one centralized monolith.
I know people like to have all their eggs in one basket, but the current structures just don't support it properly
That's okay you can charge. Just do better than Nexus.
Serious question, I'm not familiar with the scale of the numbers involved: how much better does it get if you just slap bittorrent-or-similar over it, and only fall back to HTTP if there aren't enough seeds?
The worst of it will be very popular mods for very popular games, and "distributing very popular things that many people have a copy of" seems like the kind of thing p2p file sharing would be best at.
This is exactly what I was thinking. P2P seems like it would mitigate a big portion of the expense. I'm sure there are flaws and problems with that solution, but it seems doable
Well damn.
I've been eagerly following their new NexusMods app for Linux modding, and it was coming along so nicely.