As a software developer, this incident highlights my biggest concerns with hiring external translators to localize the text in your application: if you don't personally speak the language, how can...
As a software developer, this incident highlights my biggest concerns with hiring external translators to localize the text in your application: if you don't personally speak the language, how can you verify that the translation is actually good? Sure, you can run a few samples through Google Translate, but that will at best tell you if the translation approximately contains the content you wanted, not if the words, structure, etc. are what you were going for. I'd be interested to hear what others' experiences are with third-party localizations.
I work as a professional translator (games and books mostly) so I can chime in a bit with my own experience, though I can't promise it applies here since I don't know Team Cherry's workflow. The...
Exemplary
I work as a professional translator (games and books mostly) so I can chime in a bit with my own experience, though I can't promise it applies here since I don't know Team Cherry's workflow.
The vast majority of translators in this field specifically are freelance workers hired by companies for that specific project.
Speaking for myself, every single localization company has required I take a translation test to even join, some also requiring I have a certificate for the language (Many languages have aptitude tests you can pay to take, and then they'll formally grade your ability). So that is the first hurdle a translator must clear to even translate for somebody, and the first assurance to the client that they are hiring professional translators that can maintain a certain standard.
Then you have translation and style guidelines. Every company usually has these in some capacity to maintain consistency across their projects.
Lastly, a translator is not supposed to work alone. I have never in my life worked alone in the 10 years I've been active. You must always work in tandem with at least an editor that will oversee your work and polish it as necessary, which is then usually followed by a dedicated quality checker that will check for any further issues. The editor and quality checker are not always required to know the source language, but during the hiring process for those positions those are definitely qualities that are sought out so you can specifically ask the company that the editing and quality checking steps be performed by bilingual people as well.
Quality checking can also be done independently by the client or a separate company they hire. I've had books I've translated which were edited by my editor, but all the final quality checking was done by the client (or somebody they hired, I don't actually know) which then sent the feedback for us to review, and that feedback contained (among other things) translation errors made by me as well as disagreement over how I translated some things, which I then promptly fixed.
As the client, you can usually trust that the barrier to entry + the multiple person workflow will ensure nobody is stepping out of line, since if one person steps out of the line the others should step up and inform the company about it, preventing the bad work from ever coming out.
For example, I once worked on a game that was delayed because the previous translator did such an awful job that it was unsalvageable and needed to be redone. This was all caught by editors during the editing phase and the game was never published with that translation, instead being delayed until a new translation was ready.
Also if you're a freelance translator, doing shoddy work or god forbid breaching NDAs will get you on a blacklist prerty quickly and ruin your career in the industry. I have no idea why anybody would do what's described in this article, it's career suicide.
So unless you are directly hiring a single person and not a localization company, NDA breaches and shoddy work should definitely be a very, very low risk. Not impossible but there are enough barriers in place to prevent it.
Since there are only 2 people credited with the Chinese translation of Silksong, I suspect that is where the problem lies, as 2 people is very low for a game of this scale. Just a coordinator + translator + editor are 3 people, and they didn't even have that it seems.
I think you could have a few "test players" from that target community to provide feedback on the translation during an alpha or beta phase to ensure you give yourself enough time to solicit and...
I think you could have a few "test players" from that target community to provide feedback on the translation during an alpha or beta phase to ensure you give yourself enough time to solicit and implement any changes that might be needed. Perhaps not all devs have that budget but I'm in a few "indie game company" discords and if they're looking to get for localizations they will ask fans to help them on a volunteer basis.
I feel like any game trying to localize should have a few hundred dollars to throw at bilingual testers who just play a few hours of the game to make sure the text makes sense. I imagine a...
I feel like any game trying to localize should have a few hundred dollars to throw at bilingual testers who just play a few hours of the game to make sure the text makes sense. I imagine a localization this drastic will be felt in minutes, so you don't even need a full QA pass. Just a BS detector.
Volunteers, all the better. But it can be hard to get feedback when your game isn't the most anticpated indie of the last decade.
The social media disaster here is an even thornier issue I never truly considered. Employees in another country breaking NDA's on social media you may not even have heard of is truly a nightmare scenario.
I'm not in the software field but some of my work has involved commissioning and coordinating translations of stage plays for theatre productions, so I can tell you how translation approvals are...
I'm not in the software field but some of my work has involved commissioning and coordinating translations of stage plays for theatre productions, so I can tell you how translation approvals are done in that context.
The most costly and time-consuming option is the so-called "back translation", where after a translator has translated the play from its source language to a target language, some other professional translator then comes in and translates the translated play back into the original language for comparison. Fortunately, this is a less typical requirement these days, and if a licensor requires it, they are usually now content also with machine back translations, which are both faster and cheaper.
Which brings us to automated translations. You mentioned Google Translate, but I suggest looking around a bit more widely. Now, I must admit that I haven't used Google Translate for ages so I don't know how good it is these days, and a translation tool can be great in one language pair and horrible in another, but for years at least, DeepL was much better for my needs, especially when I wanted to translate longer documents. That said, AIs have become increasingly useful in this kind of work and I recently cancelled my DeepL subscription as I get just as good, if not better, results from Kagi's AI based translator, Gemini and ChatGPT.
If a full back translation is not required, licensors often instead ask for a list of changes. Just a table of notes and short explanations of parts where the meaning or expression of something has changed from the original, like for instance cultural references, puns, or other things which wouldn't work in the target language. The assumption then is that everything that is not pointed out in the notes is as it was in the original, just in another language, and that saves everyone's time.
With this, of course, the licensor places more trust on the translator to create a faithful report. Naturally, you can also shift that trust somewhere else: you can hire someone who speaks both the source and the target language to comment on the translation and give their approval.
These days, it is also starting to be possible to use AI for this (again). Both Gemini and ChatGPT, for instance, can take an original text and its translation and give you fairly meaningful feedback on the differences and similarities, both on a general scale and with more detail oriented evaluation. They aren't yet a replacement for a qualified reader, but they are getting there.
Finally, I suppose it's also important to note that all of this is governed by the licensing and/or translation agreements. Such contracts will in almost all cases stipulate that the translation must be faithful to the original in meaning, content and spirit, and that for any changes the translator must seek approval in writing. If the translation contains any changes that weren't approved, the translator has breached the contract and can be held liable for damages. Not that I ever remember that happening in the cases I've dealt with, and I must have been involved with something like two hundred translations over the years. Sure, there have been issues with some translations, but things can always be fixed one way or another.
I wonder how difficult it would be to create an automation tool that identities the level of creative freedom between a piece of source text and the translation. Obviously there should be some,...
I wonder how difficult it would be to create an automation tool that identities the level of creative freedom between a piece of source text and the translation. Obviously there should be some, localization is more complicated than just translating words, but it should obviously only drift so far.
I'd imagine there's a better way, but off the top of my head I'd think that some well-formed prompts and existing AI could get pretty close without even building anything particularly complicated.
Jeez louise. I've worked with some editors with really bad takes before. I cannot imagine having one let loose on one of the largest game-lore launches in history with essentially no supervision....
Jeez louise. I've worked with some editors with really bad takes before. I cannot imagine having one let loose on one of the largest game-lore launches in history with essentially no supervision. What a nightmare. I clearly dont want anyone hurt, including poet-gooners, but for the sake of that writer's future exploits I hope this knocks the ego out of them.
Only looked at the start. For context: does the article contain spoilers? I think without that info most of us silksong players won’t be able to read it :D
Only looked at the start. For context: does the article contain spoilers? I think without that info most of us silksong players won’t be able to read it :D
/noise This is a fascinating and sad story. Unfortunately I made the mistake of reading the comments and seeing the author defend his use of AI for generating the image for this post. People will...
/noise
This is a fascinating and sad story. Unfortunately I made the mistake of reading the comments and seeing the author defend his use of AI for generating the image for this post. People will often try to prove that they're right across multiple comments, and just end up digging a deeper hole.
As a software developer, this incident highlights my biggest concerns with hiring external translators to localize the text in your application: if you don't personally speak the language, how can you verify that the translation is actually good? Sure, you can run a few samples through Google Translate, but that will at best tell you if the translation approximately contains the content you wanted, not if the words, structure, etc. are what you were going for. I'd be interested to hear what others' experiences are with third-party localizations.
I work as a professional translator (games and books mostly) so I can chime in a bit with my own experience, though I can't promise it applies here since I don't know Team Cherry's workflow.
The vast majority of translators in this field specifically are freelance workers hired by companies for that specific project.
Speaking for myself, every single localization company has required I take a translation test to even join, some also requiring I have a certificate for the language (Many languages have aptitude tests you can pay to take, and then they'll formally grade your ability). So that is the first hurdle a translator must clear to even translate for somebody, and the first assurance to the client that they are hiring professional translators that can maintain a certain standard.
Then you have translation and style guidelines. Every company usually has these in some capacity to maintain consistency across their projects.
Lastly, a translator is not supposed to work alone. I have never in my life worked alone in the 10 years I've been active. You must always work in tandem with at least an editor that will oversee your work and polish it as necessary, which is then usually followed by a dedicated quality checker that will check for any further issues. The editor and quality checker are not always required to know the source language, but during the hiring process for those positions those are definitely qualities that are sought out so you can specifically ask the company that the editing and quality checking steps be performed by bilingual people as well.
Quality checking can also be done independently by the client or a separate company they hire. I've had books I've translated which were edited by my editor, but all the final quality checking was done by the client (or somebody they hired, I don't actually know) which then sent the feedback for us to review, and that feedback contained (among other things) translation errors made by me as well as disagreement over how I translated some things, which I then promptly fixed.
As the client, you can usually trust that the barrier to entry + the multiple person workflow will ensure nobody is stepping out of line, since if one person steps out of the line the others should step up and inform the company about it, preventing the bad work from ever coming out.
For example, I once worked on a game that was delayed because the previous translator did such an awful job that it was unsalvageable and needed to be redone. This was all caught by editors during the editing phase and the game was never published with that translation, instead being delayed until a new translation was ready.
Also if you're a freelance translator, doing shoddy work or god forbid breaching NDAs will get you on a blacklist prerty quickly and ruin your career in the industry. I have no idea why anybody would do what's described in this article, it's career suicide.
So unless you are directly hiring a single person and not a localization company, NDA breaches and shoddy work should definitely be a very, very low risk. Not impossible but there are enough barriers in place to prevent it.
Since there are only 2 people credited with the Chinese translation of Silksong, I suspect that is where the problem lies, as 2 people is very low for a game of this scale. Just a coordinator + translator + editor are 3 people, and they didn't even have that it seems.
I think you could have a few "test players" from that target community to provide feedback on the translation during an alpha or beta phase to ensure you give yourself enough time to solicit and implement any changes that might be needed. Perhaps not all devs have that budget but I'm in a few "indie game company" discords and if they're looking to get for localizations they will ask fans to help them on a volunteer basis.
I feel like any game trying to localize should have a few hundred dollars to throw at bilingual testers who just play a few hours of the game to make sure the text makes sense. I imagine a localization this drastic will be felt in minutes, so you don't even need a full QA pass. Just a BS detector.
Volunteers, all the better. But it can be hard to get feedback when your game isn't the most anticpated indie of the last decade.
The social media disaster here is an even thornier issue I never truly considered. Employees in another country breaking NDA's on social media you may not even have heard of is truly a nightmare scenario.
I'm not in the software field but some of my work has involved commissioning and coordinating translations of stage plays for theatre productions, so I can tell you how translation approvals are done in that context.
The most costly and time-consuming option is the so-called "back translation", where after a translator has translated the play from its source language to a target language, some other professional translator then comes in and translates the translated play back into the original language for comparison. Fortunately, this is a less typical requirement these days, and if a licensor requires it, they are usually now content also with machine back translations, which are both faster and cheaper.
Which brings us to automated translations. You mentioned Google Translate, but I suggest looking around a bit more widely. Now, I must admit that I haven't used Google Translate for ages so I don't know how good it is these days, and a translation tool can be great in one language pair and horrible in another, but for years at least, DeepL was much better for my needs, especially when I wanted to translate longer documents. That said, AIs have become increasingly useful in this kind of work and I recently cancelled my DeepL subscription as I get just as good, if not better, results from Kagi's AI based translator, Gemini and ChatGPT.
If a full back translation is not required, licensors often instead ask for a list of changes. Just a table of notes and short explanations of parts where the meaning or expression of something has changed from the original, like for instance cultural references, puns, or other things which wouldn't work in the target language. The assumption then is that everything that is not pointed out in the notes is as it was in the original, just in another language, and that saves everyone's time.
With this, of course, the licensor places more trust on the translator to create a faithful report. Naturally, you can also shift that trust somewhere else: you can hire someone who speaks both the source and the target language to comment on the translation and give their approval.
These days, it is also starting to be possible to use AI for this (again). Both Gemini and ChatGPT, for instance, can take an original text and its translation and give you fairly meaningful feedback on the differences and similarities, both on a general scale and with more detail oriented evaluation. They aren't yet a replacement for a qualified reader, but they are getting there.
Finally, I suppose it's also important to note that all of this is governed by the licensing and/or translation agreements. Such contracts will in almost all cases stipulate that the translation must be faithful to the original in meaning, content and spirit, and that for any changes the translator must seek approval in writing. If the translation contains any changes that weren't approved, the translator has breached the contract and can be held liable for damages. Not that I ever remember that happening in the cases I've dealt with, and I must have been involved with something like two hundred translations over the years. Sure, there have been issues with some translations, but things can always be fixed one way or another.
I wonder how difficult it would be to create an automation tool that identities the level of creative freedom between a piece of source text and the translation. Obviously there should be some, localization is more complicated than just translating words, but it should obviously only drift so far.
I'd imagine there's a better way, but off the top of my head I'd think that some well-formed prompts and existing AI could get pretty close without even building anything particularly complicated.
Jeez louise. I've worked with some editors with really bad takes before. I cannot imagine having one let loose on one of the largest game-lore launches in history with essentially no supervision. What a nightmare. I clearly dont want anyone hurt, including poet-gooners, but for the sake of that writer's future exploits I hope this knocks the ego out of them.
Only looked at the start. For context: does the article contain spoilers? I think without that info most of us silksong players won’t be able to read it :D
I haven't played Silksong, but as far as I could tell there are no spoilers in this article.
I’ve played 2 hours, up to the second boss. There were no spoilers.
Wild.
/noise
This is a fascinating and sad story. Unfortunately I made the mistake of reading the comments and seeing the author defend his use of AI for generating the image for this post. People will often try to prove that they're right across multiple comments, and just end up digging a deeper hole.