I’m glad Bungie is unvaulting expansions and refocusing effort on the obvious money printing machine, but they really should rethink their decision to block linux users from playing either Destiny...
I’m glad Bungie is unvaulting expansions and refocusing effort on the obvious money printing machine, but they really should rethink their decision to block linux users from playing either Destiny or Marathon. They need all the playerbase they can get.
I think for a lot of players, allowing Linux players would be synonymous with opening the floodgates for cheaters. Shoot, last I played shooters, console players were downright hostile about PC...
I think for a lot of players, allowing Linux players would be synonymous with opening the floodgates for cheaters. Shoot, last I played shooters, console players were downright hostile about PC players and cross play.
I'd bet their business calc tells them that perception would cost them more players than they'd get. The video came off as empty talk, speaking of trust is at odds with that decision.
Arc Raiders runs on linux just fine, and they’re doing a lot better than Marathon: Arc Raiders charts, Marathon charts It sounds like they’re targeting the same player base with their expansion...
Nearly every online PvP game has a cheating problem. Linux support isn't the cause. Client-sided anticheat as a whole is a bandage, not a solution. They can always be circumvented by intelligent...
Nearly every online PvP game has a cheating problem. Linux support isn't the cause. Client-sided anticheat as a whole is a bandage, not a solution. They can always be circumvented by intelligent and determined cheaters (those developing paid cheats) then purchased and used by whoever wants to cheat.
Some anticheats can function largely unchanged on Linux if they bothered to support it. ACE doesn't officially support Linux, but, according to people much more knowledgable than me, operates more completely on Linux than EAC's Linux variant.
It's a sliding scale, but it's not one that's equal. Valorant has cheaters, but it has waaaayyyyyyy less cheaters than CS:GO. It's not even close. It's clear that whatever Riot is doing works, in...
It's a sliding scale, but it's not one that's equal. Valorant has cheaters, but it has waaaayyyyyyy less cheaters than CS:GO. It's not even close. It's clear that whatever Riot is doing works, in their kernel-level anti-cheat.
When running EAC on Linux, it runs in userspace, and that's the same for all anti-cheats that run on Linux.
They can always be circumvented by intelligent and determined cheaters (those developing paid cheats) then purchased and used by whoever wants to cheat.
Sure, but it's a numbers game in the end. If the cheat-developers have to expend a LOT of engineering effort, and then charge a LOT of money, that drives the pool of cheaters down by a lot.
It's not like hackers can't get around kernel level anti-cheats, it just takes a lot of work. A lot of work is a lot of money to make it worth their while. A lot of money is not a lot of people who care that much to spend on the cheats.
Personally I would take less cheaters over Linux support any day.
You're not wrong on most points, but I think you underestimate how many people are willing to pay a significant chunk of change to cheat. They will usually be more subtle about it if it's more...
You're not wrong on most points, but I think you underestimate how many people are willing to pay a significant chunk of change to cheat. They will usually be more subtle about it if it's more expensive/difficult/annoying to come back on a new account, though.
It's all a cat and mouse game. My personal belief is that the money and effort spent on continuously updating these client-sided anticheats would be more useful in the long term spent on server-side measures. Especially as SteamOS devices continue to be successful. Those players are largely not your typical Linux users, but will be wondering why they can't play certain games on their Steam Machine, and likely annoyed when they find out the developers are simply choosing not to let them.
I’ve never experienced it, so it’s not really a problem for me. I get that it sucks, but I’d rather be able to play the game with risk of cheaters than not play at all.
I’ve never experienced it, so it’s not really a problem for me. I get that it sucks, but I’d rather be able to play the game with risk of cheaters than not play at all.
I know! I’ve been part of the hype since they announced they were making a new Marathon. The art direction is fantastic, and I know that Bungie’s gunplay is the best in the business. Too many...
I know! I’ve been part of the hype since they announced they were making a new Marathon. The art direction is fantastic, and I know that Bungie’s gunplay is the best in the business. Too many eggheads mismanaging the company, requiring prospective customers like me to jump through Windows-shaped hoops.
Console players that complain about PC players have 0 comprehension about how much better somebody mildly skilled with a mouse and keyboard can aim, fire, turn 194 degrees, kill a second, and then...
Console players that complain about PC players have 0 comprehension about how much better somebody mildly skilled with a mouse and keyboard can aim, fire, turn 194 degrees, kill a second, and then turn 270 and kill a third.
Thumbsticks for camera aim are about as precise as using oven mitts to operate a sewing machine.
People know, it’s just not viewed as fair play. Professional baseball doesn’t let you bring aluminum bats either. Part of the game is everyone having general boundaries on how much of a force...
People know, it’s just not viewed as fair play. Professional baseball doesn’t let you bring aluminum bats either. Part of the game is everyone having general boundaries on how much of a force multiplier your equipment is allowed to be.
Yea. But that's why most games include an "exclude crossplay" button for those who don't want it as an option. The PC gaming world is basically nothing but equipment upgrades. Working within that...
Yea. But that's why most games include an "exclude crossplay" button for those who don't want it as an option.
The PC gaming world is basically nothing but equipment upgrades. Working within that bounds rather than trying to prevent it will work better.
A couple dozen extra players won’t change the math. The core problem for Marathon is that it’s a game in a very sweaty genre. So it’s basically hard capped in how many people would be willing to...
A couple dozen extra players won’t change the math.
The core problem for Marathon is that it’s a game in a very sweaty genre. So it’s basically hard capped in how many people would be willing to give it a try if there’s a price of admission. Going F2P and adding some PvE game modes will go a long way.
Lol as a destiny hater and completely uninterested in marathon i was hoping this was going to be about going back to making good single player games. Destiny story has always been a stinker but...
Lol as a destiny hater and completely uninterested in marathon i was hoping this was going to be about going back to making good single player games. Destiny story has always been a stinker but character designs and art direction in general are neat +1 for marathon. God i wish they'd actually make something for me again.
Yeah, I tried it once and disliked it so much I never played again. Hated the bullet-sponge idea in an FPS and that proved it to me. It was so tedious and boring Guess it makes sense because I...
Yeah, I tried it once and disliked it so much I never played again. Hated the bullet-sponge idea in an FPS and that proved it to me. It was so tedious and boring
Guess it makes sense because I abhor MMOs in general too
I guess not even Sony is so daft to see that there's still plenty of life yet in Destiny, despite their best efforts to prove otherwise. It's nice to hear Bungie heads acknowledge that they done...
I guess not even Sony is so daft to see that there's still plenty of life yet in Destiny, despite their best efforts to prove otherwise. It's nice to hear Bungie heads acknowledge that they done goofed with both Destiny and Marathon, and that they don't expect their players to blindly trust them (they shouldn't and I certainly don't). I'm still a bit on the pessimistic side though; unvaulting all the campaigns is definitely the right move, but it's not a plan for future content or sequels. It's more of a "complete edition" kind of update, and hopefully one with an actually acceptable new player experience this time. Time alone will tell if this proves to be profitable and attractive enough to new customers for the game's fate to be reversed.
I am so hoping that the unvaulting makes D2 accessible to new players. I tried it out for the first time recently and was floored by how opaque it was. I ended up stopping it, despite REALLY...
I am so hoping that the unvaulting makes D2 accessible to new players. I tried it out for the first time recently and was floored by how opaque it was. I ended up stopping it, despite REALLY liking the moment-to-moment gameplay and stunning settings the game offers, because it just didn't make any sense to me.
If they made onboarding better, I would love to pick it up for real.
Also, can anyone here speak to Marathon's PVE mode? I have zero interest in any PVP, but my multiplayer group loves a good PVE game and would be interested in this if that could be our sole focus. Nevermind, it's not out yet.
I'm going to lose it. Finally, some humility and admissions of mismanagement. Unvault Destiny 2 content, make it better, empower Marathon to be more of a survival experience, putting teams closer...
I'm going to lose it. Finally, some humility and admissions of mismanagement. Unvault Destiny 2 content, make it better, empower Marathon to be more of a survival experience, putting teams closer to actual development... yeah, loving both of these games, I'm willing to give them another shot. This is really exciting.
Hell of a retreat. From vaulting to ending updates to firing all Destiny staff to putting everything into Marathon, and now this. It's going to be a helll of an endeavour to refocus back onto...
Hell of a retreat. From vaulting to ending updates to firing all Destiny staff to putting everything into Marathon, and now this.
It's going to be a helll of an endeavour to refocus back onto Destiny, but regardless of how much Destiny costs, it's clearly the only IP Bungie has that has any hope of maintaining a company like Bungie viable.
I’m glad Bungie is unvaulting expansions and refocusing effort on the obvious money printing machine, but they really should rethink their decision to block linux users from playing either Destiny or Marathon. They need all the playerbase they can get.
I think for a lot of players, allowing Linux players would be synonymous with opening the floodgates for cheaters. Shoot, last I played shooters, console players were downright hostile about PC players and cross play.
I'd bet their business calc tells them that perception would cost them more players than they'd get. The video came off as empty talk, speaking of trust is at odds with that decision.
Arc Raiders runs on linux just fine, and they’re doing a lot better than Marathon:
Arc Raiders charts, Marathon charts
It sounds like they’re targeting the same player base with their expansion into PvE too.
Tbf Arc Raiders also has a cheating problem
https://www.pcgamer.com/games/third-person-shooter/embark-is-finally-cracking-down-on-arc-raiders-cheaters-and-duplication-antics-our-commitment-to-anti-cheat-initiatives-remains-a-top-priority/
A common complaint on its Reddit as well
https://www.reddit.com/r/ArcRaiders/s/Ghw27xvJRE
Nearly every online PvP game has a cheating problem. Linux support isn't the cause. Client-sided anticheat as a whole is a bandage, not a solution. They can always be circumvented by intelligent and determined cheaters (those developing paid cheats) then purchased and used by whoever wants to cheat.
Some anticheats can function largely unchanged on Linux if they bothered to support it. ACE doesn't officially support Linux, but, according to people much more knowledgable than me, operates more completely on Linux than EAC's Linux variant.
It's a sliding scale, but it's not one that's equal. Valorant has cheaters, but it has waaaayyyyyyy less cheaters than CS:GO. It's not even close. It's clear that whatever Riot is doing works, in their kernel-level anti-cheat.
When running EAC on Linux, it runs in userspace, and that's the same for all anti-cheats that run on Linux.
Sure, but it's a numbers game in the end. If the cheat-developers have to expend a LOT of engineering effort, and then charge a LOT of money, that drives the pool of cheaters down by a lot.
It's not like hackers can't get around kernel level anti-cheats, it just takes a lot of work. A lot of work is a lot of money to make it worth their while. A lot of money is not a lot of people who care that much to spend on the cheats.
Personally I would take less cheaters over Linux support any day.
You're not wrong on most points, but I think you underestimate how many people are willing to pay a significant chunk of change to cheat. They will usually be more subtle about it if it's more expensive/difficult/annoying to come back on a new account, though.
It's all a cat and mouse game. My personal belief is that the money and effort spent on continuously updating these client-sided anticheats would be more useful in the long term spent on server-side measures. Especially as SteamOS devices continue to be successful. Those players are largely not your typical Linux users, but will be wondering why they can't play certain games on their Steam Machine, and likely annoyed when they find out the developers are simply choosing not to let them.
I’ve never experienced it, so it’s not really a problem for me. I get that it sucks, but I’d rather be able to play the game with risk of cheaters than not play at all.
It's a shame Arc Raiders has a fraction of the style and vibes of Marathon.
I know! I’ve been part of the hype since they announced they were making a new Marathon. The art direction is fantastic, and I know that Bungie’s gunplay is the best in the business. Too many eggheads mismanaging the company, requiring prospective customers like me to jump through Windows-shaped hoops.
Console players that complain about PC players have 0 comprehension about how much better somebody mildly skilled with a mouse and keyboard can aim, fire, turn 194 degrees, kill a second, and then turn 270 and kill a third.
Thumbsticks for camera aim are about as precise as using oven mitts to operate a sewing machine.
People know, it’s just not viewed as fair play. Professional baseball doesn’t let you bring aluminum bats either. Part of the game is everyone having general boundaries on how much of a force multiplier your equipment is allowed to be.
Yea. But that's why most games include an "exclude crossplay" button for those who don't want it as an option.
The PC gaming world is basically nothing but equipment upgrades. Working within that bounds rather than trying to prevent it will work better.
A couple dozen extra players won’t change the math.
The core problem for Marathon is that it’s a game in a very sweaty genre. So it’s basically hard capped in how many people would be willing to give it a try if there’s a price of admission. Going F2P and adding some PvE game modes will go a long way.
Lol as a destiny hater and completely uninterested in marathon i was hoping this was going to be about going back to making good single player games. Destiny story has always been a stinker but character designs and art direction in general are neat +1 for marathon. God i wish they'd actually make something for me again.
Destiny story isn't good, but the game was pretty fun and a great casual "MMO" experience with friends. Gunplay was REALLY good too.
Gunplay is really all it had going for it. The bullet-sponge grindy-ass gameplay is a major turn off for me.
Well I did say mmo-esc haha, that's basically what you're signing up for
Yeah, I tried it once and disliked it so much I never played again. Hated the bullet-sponge idea in an FPS and that proved it to me. It was so tedious and boring
Guess it makes sense because I abhor MMOs in general too
I guess not even Sony is so daft to see that there's still plenty of life yet in Destiny, despite their best efforts to prove otherwise. It's nice to hear Bungie heads acknowledge that they done goofed with both Destiny and Marathon, and that they don't expect their players to blindly trust them (they shouldn't and I certainly don't). I'm still a bit on the pessimistic side though; unvaulting all the campaigns is definitely the right move, but it's not a plan for future content or sequels. It's more of a "complete edition" kind of update, and hopefully one with an actually acceptable new player experience this time. Time alone will tell if this proves to be profitable and attractive enough to new customers for the game's fate to be reversed.
I am so hoping that the unvaulting makes D2 accessible to new players. I tried it out for the first time recently and was floored by how opaque it was. I ended up stopping it, despite REALLY liking the moment-to-moment gameplay and stunning settings the game offers, because it just didn't make any sense to me.
If they made onboarding better, I would love to pick it up for real.
Also, can anyone here speak to Marathon's PVE mode? I have zero interest in any PVP, but my multiplayer group loves a good PVE game and would be interested in this if that could be our sole focus.Nevermind, it's not out yet.I'm going to lose it. Finally, some humility and admissions of mismanagement. Unvault Destiny 2 content, make it better, empower Marathon to be more of a survival experience, putting teams closer to actual development... yeah, loving both of these games, I'm willing to give them another shot. This is really exciting.
Hell of a retreat. From vaulting to ending updates to firing all Destiny staff to putting everything into Marathon, and now this.
It's going to be a helll of an endeavour to refocus back onto Destiny, but regardless of how much Destiny costs, it's clearly the only IP Bungie has that has any hope of maintaining a company like Bungie viable.