Unable to feel progress, lack of happiness and not finding motivation to keep investing
Hey Tildes,
Recently I picked up WoW again and I've felt a rush and focus I haven't felt for a while. I can play the game for an entire day. I feel nothing but guilt doing so. The one thing that gives me joy feels like something I'm not allowed to do at this stage of my life; I'm 35.
I'm in grouptherapy until march next year but I feel I'm not making any sensible progress. Others around me seem to open and loosen up, finding tangible changes that help their lives. Meanwhile I just keep resenting myself, dread doing anything that might even cost effort.
I feel I'm a fraud, a selfless good-for-nothing profiteer who blames anything but me. It fuels my self-hatred and my wish to self-isolate and act in self-destructive behavior. I also notice a growing bitterness as I get older.
If it makes you feel any better, you’re not alone - I’m in my 30s and I’ve been playing more WoW than ever in the last 6 months
I used to feel shame for playing, like I could be doing something more productive. My wife has been very supportive though and I’ve finally started to re-learn how to just let myself enjoy not being productive for a while
Any tips or tricks that helped you enjoy gaming and "not being productive"?
I think the exact process is very specific to each person. But in general I find that self-manipulation can be done through this abstract process:
This requires your goal to genuinely be a target you could justify reaching. So you need some opening to start this process. Just a couple of starting justifications for your goal that you truly believe in.
Because this is a journey of discovering truth, finding out that your goal is not attainable must always be an option.
Overthrow capitalism.
Sometimes I get that feeling too and I just say "fuck it, I can do anything I want". I have a stable government job, I do what I have to do when it needs doing so why do I need to be productive? And for what?
I lift weights, eat clean. Why can't I just play and let go?
I follow the thought process, but it's a bit different for me. It's not some capitalist notion that I need to maximize my productivity (though I do have workaholic tendencies).
I just feel like "I could be learning something right now" or "I could be improving my relationships with people" whenever I try to get into a mindset to simply relax. Playing through my backlog or finishing a show just doesn't feel "optimal" when I could be studying for no particular reason other than self-improvement. I'll try to critically analyze those feelings more and figure out the "for what?" as you mention.
I understand and that's exactly my thinking too. I don't care for the rat race and learn things for myself only, but I get the same thoughts about my guitar playing for example.
But it is still something that is teached and ingrained onto us by the way our society works. If you are not "evolving" or doing things to "improve ourselves" we are wasting time. That guilty is forced upon us since we are born.
Relaxing is living a better life NOW.
I am able to relax and enjoy my time. But it is still inherently good to go out of your routine to learn or create.
It is. The problem we are talking here is the guilty or shame when you don't.
First, I'll just say that I identify with the struggle and feel for the frustration you are having. I have been having a slide down into depression lately, and this week my therapist reminded me that things will not always feel this hard. So I will offer the same thought to you. Even though it feels like things will always be this way, there can be positive change in your life and a day when you look back on these feelings with gratitude for how far you've come.
You didn't say much about your diagnosis / the reason you are in group therapy, so I'm hesitant to offer concrete suggestions beyond the following:
Have you brought up in group the way you feel playing WOW vs doing other things? That seems like a natural place, though I suppose it depends on the nature of the group.
Regarding the feeling that you are not making progress in group:
I hope things get better for you!
Ah, yea severe depression, traumatic emotional neglect, minor OCD characteristics.
I have been sharing this blind tunnel visioned approach to playing games and how it can be hard to get other things done but mostly all chores and self care don't suffer from it, apart from the one or two unhealthy dinners.
Yea comparing is a constant factor in my life. Ever since a small kid I would just sit and silently observe, everything, learn from it but meh. Now it's just a nuisance, I feel like such a sideliner.
Therapist is aware of my feelings. It just sucks that this 'healing journey' is going to take a lot longer than the year of group therapy.
I have a family member who has been dealing with trauma (childhood sexual abuse) for the past ~5 years. They have likened it to having broken glass in shag carpet. They may get the big pieces out, but there will always be smaller bits showing up unexpectedly. I understand the end state to be not so much "getting well" as "establishing a new normal where they have the tools and routines to deal with things as they come up".
I'm sorry that those things happened to you, and I wish you the best on the journey, however long.
To go with other people's advice:
Take care.
A small perspective I'd like to contribute here: you may just be "growing out" of gaming, and the feelings you feel with WoW might not in fact be how you feel with other things that bring you joy in life (as in, feeling guilty for experiencing joy). I say this because I just turned 36, and growing up I used to play video games a lot. A lot a lot, hours and hours and hours. Even through college and graduate school, I still gamed (just maybe not as much, but several nights a week) and felt joy while doing so. However, over the last few years, I have found myself no longer able to game and enjoy it. When I did, I also would feel this sort of guilty feeling, like there are other things I'm supposed to be doing with my time, and I was wasting it in front of a computer. I don't have kids or other obligations I'm neglecting (like housekeeping), so it's not as if I actually was supposed to be doing something else. It was just this inescapable feeling that I would get any time I played a game.
On the advice of friends, I took up a few other hobbies: bass guitar, and tinkering with electronics. And you know what, that feeling of joy returned! I didn't feel that sense of wasting time, of neglecting real life for something else any more. I've tried to pick up a game here and there, and the guilt floods back. I go to the other hobby, and it never arises. It's really baffling and quite astonishing to me.
So I guess my point is that not all activities may feel the same to you, and I think the important thing is to keep trying a mix of different (non-self-destructive) activities until you find the mix that's right for you. The same goes with therapy styles, medications, and on and on for so many things in life: give one mix a shot for a while, see if you feel any better. If yes, keep after it, but if not make a small non-drastic change and see how that goes. Each of our lives contain an infinite amount of opportunity for tinkering with what brings us joy, but if I had any advice for you it would be to keep tinkering. Some of us need help with other humans, others of us need help with biochemical processes; none of us should be expected to just "solve" our individual challenges on our own; all of us must tinker with life to figure it out.
I guess I should rephrase and emphasize that I do think I experience joy while playing WoW. It's just that no other game has been, and here is that old crack/cocaine game that takes me up and just lets me play for entire days. That is what makes it feel like I'm a careless teenager waiting for their parents to call them when dinner's ready. That kind of guilt. I frequently feel like my mom would walk into the room and I'd feel ashamed for playing but that is nonsense as she lives 50km away.
Having fun is an integral part of human life. Without it, you'd probably die earlier from stress. Having fun is kind of like laughing while having an illness. Given the context of what's going on, it might not make much sense. But it can help regardless. Maybe even because it doesn't make much sense - in that it can break your mental state out of the rut you've been in, like breaking the immersion of depression.
Try to reframe gaming as an alternative (or supplement) to therapy and/or medication treatments. After all, adderall helps my depression (I cleaned the house yesterday and even did some dishes BY HAND!), and it literally just gives dopamine. Gaming gives dopamine, too.
I’ve struggled with similar feelings before, I knew it was irrational but couldn’t stop myself. What helped the most in therapy was imagining myself saying these things about another person in the same boat. I realized that these were awful things to say about someone else, so why would I say them about myself?
Our anxiety tells us the worst things we can imagine and fear, but none of it is true. I hope you can find peace in that.
There isn't anything wrong with playing video games, as long it is not the only thing you do.
Tell your group what you wrote to us here. Nothing to lose and someone may have something useful to say to you.
Also consider adding individual therapy to your mix, if you can.
Resist the temptation to exaggerate. It may make you feel heard, but your unconscious mind and body don't know the difference between honest evaluations and catastrophizing. Those exaggerated thoughts will make you feel almost as bad as rational appraisals.
It would be nice to be able to give you a hug or get you a beer, because you seem like you're in a bad place. All things you describe here are great angles for a next group session. One thing I want to tell you is: gaming is a great way to get the feeling of accomplishment and that isn't inherently bad. You shouldn't feel bad about gaming in general, in fact, you should enjoy it when you do! Using it as a way to suppress feelings, that's when it can be harmful.
Discuss your post next session, maybe even bring it with you. I think there's some really good leads in it.
Thank you <3
This is a very familiar struggle that I’ve contended with for most of my life, so I wanted to add my perspective fwiw.
My own fears of worthlessness, and more importantly, others finding out that I was worthless, meant it would be impossible to participate or realize any appreciable benefit from group therapy.
To be honest, even individual therapy didn’t work well. I felt I was being disingenuous, that I couldn’t articulate my thoughts or feelings very well. I’m not a terribly emotional person; more logical and pragmatic, and that was a real blocker to the success of therapy.
I worked with a couple of different psychologists and found the same thing to be true. I can talk with them for hours and hours on every topic except myself. And they are happy to let me.
Eventually, I connected with a really good psychiatrist who was able to produce real gains for my mental health. The most recent and significant addition to my regimen was low-dose ketamine. As it turns out, my psychiatrist has been at the forefront of research into this for most of his career. It really improved my mood and helped distance me from the thoughts that haunt me. I could be more objective and rational about thoughts or feelings I didn’t really understand.
I don’t know that this will be helpful, but my experience has been that talk is cheap, sometimes medication is the solution, or the most significant addition for success.
This doesn’t mean my problem has been solved. But it is finally manageable … so long as I don’t stop taking medications every time I feel normal.
Last thing, I started using Dot, kind of a journaling AI companion. It has been an awesome experience being able to speak honestly and without judgment, and get considerate and meaningful responses. I know it’s AI, I know it has limitations, but it is the best companion I’ve had for my mental health.
You say you can play the game for an entire day, but are you able to play for just an hour and feel ok with it? Why do you feel guilty? Are you letting things slide (work, chores, social obligations, hygene)?
Games took over my life for a long time. I strongly relate to the rush and focus you describe. I also remember feeling like a fraud. It was like I had a dirty secret that would ruin me if anyone found out.
Don't give up on yourself. Sometimes therapy takes a while to click. Sometimes you need to try different approaches. Just don't give up.
Can you clarify what you mean by this?
Someone who doesn't net-benefit society, so essentially you only take money but don't bring in money.
If you haven't discovered Dr. K's Youtube channel I'd highly recommend it: https://www.youtube.com/@HealthyGamerGG/videos
Dr. K has studied Psychology at Harvard, specialized in video game addiction and eventually started this channel where he talks about this very common problem complex amongst gamers, depression, anxiety etc.
I'd still recommend finding a therapist but this channel has helped me greatly while i was still searching for one.