66 votes

Anyone have any interesting facts or wild stories to share about strange characters in history? I can start - with Marquis de Sade.

My contribution:

It's 2:17am on a school night, you're a teenager, and you're googling "most disturbing movie ever made" - because you can. Among mentions of films like A Serbian Film and Audition, you also notice that a film with two names is commonly mentioned: Salò, or The 120 Days of Sodom. Huh, even the name sounds creepy. After looking behind you to make sure no one's watching, a brief glance at a summary of the movie explains enough to make you want to forget about the whole thing forever. Regardless, you fall further down the Wikipedia hole... (or in my case, you really do forget about it for 10 years, only to unfortunately stumble across it again yesterday.)


Salò was made in 1975 and is based on a novel written by Marquis de Sade in 1785. It is known as one of the most disturbing films ever made, but as I learned recently, the film and novel somewhat pale in comparison to the real life of the author. Sade was a French guy who committed all manners of wild, outrageous, and terrible behavior throughout his life, and his Wikipedia page is a crazy ride. You know the word "sadism?" This man is literally the etymological origin of sadism. (Also, practically his whole existence requires a content warning. In this case, it seems that the art has never been separate from the artist.)

In 1763, Sade was charged with "outrage to public morals, blasphemy and profanation of the image of Christ," which at first makes him seem pretty cool. Alas, it all goes downhill from here, as he was known as a nuisance and danger to every community he lived in.

TW: Sadism, sexual abuse, physical abuse, child sexual abuse

He once locked a woman in a room and went on a ultra-cringe atheist tirade that would make even the most condescending neckbeard blush, screaming about how God doesn't exist while simultaneously masturbating, urinating on things, stomping on a crucifix, and ordering the woman to beat and whip him. He locked another woman in his home, whipped her, and poured hot wax in the wounds. He was arrested, then let out of jail because he wrote letters and whined to the King about it. He was such a creep that the local police started warning sex workers not to visit him. He fell in love with his wife's sister when she was 13, and eventually ran away with her. He committed absurd acts of pedophilia, including forcing groups of children to perform "erotic plays" while trapped in his home for weeks on end.

Later, when Napoleon Bonaparte issued a warrant for his arrest after being offended by his novels, Sade was imprisoned, then had to transfer prisons because he was being such a disgusting sex pest to other prisoners at the first one. His family had him declared insane and moved to an insane asylum. While in the asylum, he was permitted to direct and perform his plays, using the other patients as actors. Somehow, even when living amongst the most underprivileged members of society in prisons or insane asylums, it seems that Sade was never fully prevented from promoting his ideas and art to the world, even though the subjects he explored were universally horrifying to society - then, as well as now. I found this fascinating.

TW: child sexual abuse

This man spent his whole life committing weird, gross, violent sex crimes at every turn, and no one ever really stopped him from doing that either. His life is one long cycle of rapes, arrests, assaults, kidnappings, and imprisonments, and he keeps on going until the very end. When he was 70, he entered a four year long sexual "relationship" with a 14 year old daughter of one of the asylum employees, and then died at the age of 74.

Sade wrote The 120 Days of Sodom on scraps of paper while in an insane asylum in 1785, and lost it in the Storming of Bastille during the French Revolution. It was somehow rescued (eternally unbeknownst to him,) and was finally published in 1904, to eventually be adapted into the film that sent me down this whole rabbit hole.

While reading about Sade's life, I was surprised not only by the major events in history he was present for, but the lasting impact he had on philosophy, art, and culture. As mentioned above, the word "sadism" has its roots in his name. The Surrealists adopted him as an inspiration in the 1920s, dubbing him the "Divine Marquis" and praising his ideas about "sexual freedom." (Side note: I love surrealism, but I swear, I never stop discovering new, unsettling facts about Dali and his ilk.) Along with Surrealism, he is said to have had great influence over Modernist art. Some consider his work to be a precursor of nihilism. Sade also influenced Sigmund Freud, Friedrich Nietzsche, and at least one serial killer.


Discussion

Learning about this guy left me astounded, and I just needed to share with someone. Could I have just posted the Wikipedia article? Yes, but that's not as fun as writing down this crazy story and some of my feelings about it. (Note: I did not link sources excessively in this post, as it generally follows the structure of the Wikipedia article and sources can be found there.)

I couldn't believe I didn't already know about Marquis de Sade before today (maybe because I've never taken a philosophy class?) It also got me thinking that I'd like to hear about any other outrageous, controversial, or just plain strange characters in history that you might know of. Even the other historical figures mentioned above have pretty wild lives themselves. (And on the other hand, I suppose there's so much here to chew on that we may just discuss Sade in general. If so, have at it. I'm particularly fascinated by how such a sick individual has heavily influenced significant parts of our culture, and how to feel about that.)

Fun facts are welcome, considering I certainly didn't bring any.

30 comments

  1. [4]
    Starman2112
    Link
    For someone a little bit lower key, there's the incredible life of Julie d'Aubigny. Her father worked for King Louis XIV's Master of the Horse, and trained her in fencing. By the age of 12 she was...
    • Exemplary

    For someone a little bit lower key, there's the incredible life of Julie d'Aubigny. Her father worked for King Louis XIV's Master of the Horse, and trained her in fencing. By the age of 12 she was better at it than her male peers. Two years later, she became her father's boss's mistress, and not long after that she was married off to another noble. The same year, her new husband got a new position in the south of France, but she was kept in Paris. Also the same year, she got involved with an assistant fencing master. After the cops tried to arrest him for killing a man in an illegal duel, he and Julie ran away together, performing fencing shows and singing in taverns to make a living on the way to Marseille. When they got to Marseille, she joined an opera company.

    During one of her opera performances, a girl fell in love with Julie, and they had an affair. When the girl's parents sent her to live in a convent, Julie stole a dead body, broke into that girl's room, set it on fire and faked the girl's death so they could run away together... For three months, before that girl went back to live with her parents.

    Being a wanted woman in the area for body-snatching, arson, and kidnapping, she left and headed back for Paris. On her way there, she met a man in a tavern who mistook her for a man (she often dressed as one), and they had a duel. She beat him, and they became short-term lovers and lifelong friends. Also on the way to Paris, she met an old actor who gave her singing lessons, and also found a new lover, a singer who got her a new opera gig in Paris.

    Then she turned 18, and had a relatively normal life as an opera singer, still beating men and bedding women until she died at the age of 33.

    58 votes
    1. tildin
      Link Parent
      Amazing story, thanks for sharing. The most incredible thing for me was reading all that and then the last paragraph starts with "then she turned 18". Crazy teenagers in France at that time.

      Amazing story, thanks for sharing. The most incredible thing for me was reading all that and then the last paragraph starts with "then she turned 18". Crazy teenagers in France at that time.

      20 votes
    2. catahoula_leopard
      Link Parent
      If by lower key, you mean less evil, haha! Otherwise she's pretty chaotic, in all the best ways. I learned about her from a YouTube video, wish I could find it because it was fantastic, but your...

      For someone a little bit lower key

      If by lower key, you mean less evil, haha! Otherwise she's pretty chaotic, in all the best ways. I learned about her from a YouTube video, wish I could find it because it was fantastic, but your summary is great. I swear, women who dressed as men back in those days all seem like the most interesting and daring people. I love to hear stories like this.

      6 votes
  2. [3]
    Kitahara_Kazusa
    Link
    I find General Curtis LeMay very interesting, especially during WW2, after that he becomes simultaneously much less influential and also much more controversial. And also I know less about that...
    • Exemplary

    I find General Curtis LeMay very interesting, especially during WW2, after that he becomes simultaneously much less influential and also much more controversial. And also I know less about that period of his life, mostly because I didn't put in as much effort trying to find out about it.

    But during WW2 he was incredibly influential, especially considering he was only a 2 star general by the end. When he arrived in Europe in 1942, he was a Major, and was in command of the 305th Bomb Group. When he arrived in England, he heard from the British pilots tons of stories about how deadly the German AA was. The British had resorted to night bombing to avoid the AA, and advised the Americans not to fly straight and level for more than 10 seconds if they wanted to come back alive.

    LeMay knew from experience in training that it would be impossible to line up a decent bomb run with only 10 seconds of straight flying. Up until the night of his first mission he was fairly undecided on whether or not to take the advice of the British airmen, or to risk a straight approach in exchange for the increased accuracy it would provide. Based on some quick math and an artillery manual he'd happened to bring with him which he used to estimate the hit probability of the AA guns, he decided to ignore the warning of the British. To encourage his men to believe him, he personally flew the lead bomber on their first mission.

    3 weeks after that orders came down from the top that all bombers should make straight and level approaches to the targets, since the increased risk was more than offset by the increased accuracy. LeMay continued to occasionally lead missions to keep morale up even after being promoted to Colonel and then General, he wouldn't do it every time but considered it important for keeping everyone motivated.

    In 1944, LeMay was transferred to China, where he was in charge of bombing Japanese ports and other facilities in occupied China. He did a fairly good job here too, especially in comparison to General Hansell, who was tasked with bombing the Japanese home islands. Granted, this was not a fair comparison, because the weather over China was much more favorable than the weather over Japan. But nonetheless, General Arnold (the commander of the USAAF) replaced General Hansell with LeMay in early 1945. From February to March, LeMay continued to fail to perform in exactly the same way Hansell had. The constant cloud cover over Japan, combined with the jetstream blowing bombs off course, made accurate bombing of factories impossible. And between the Manilla massacre, the invasion of Iwo Jima, and pressure from Arnold (who had staked his career and the future of the independent air force on the success of the B-29 strategic bomber) LeMay felt he absolutely had to do something to get results, both to avoid getting replaced and to end the war faster.

    And this is where his story gets interesting, because normally 2 star generals do not get to set policy. They'll have some latitude in how they carry it out, but ultimately they still have to answer to their CO. Up until March 9, 1945, the USAAF had a policy of only bombing strictly military targets, in contrast to their British allies who were much more willing to hit cities. This had been challenged by the firebombing of Dresden, but that had resulted in an inquiry which had decided that the railways and factories made Dresden a military target, and that had also been done as a joint operation with the British to help relations with the Soviets.

    But hitting Japanese factories was simply not working, so LeMay decided to try new tactics. By having his bombers fly at night, they could ditch their defensive guns and come in much lower, allowing them to carry roughly double the payload of bombs as they could in daylight (daylight bombing at low altitude or without defensive guns would be suicidal). And because the accuracy problems would be even further reduced due to the inability to see at night, LeMay changed the target from a single factory to a ~12 square mile section of urban Tokyo. Hard to miss that. The bombers would also carry napalm, which was projected to be incredibly lethal against the Japanese cities, although prior uses from high altitude had resulted in little effect (which also convinced the Japanese that they did not need to improve their firefighting capabilities. They were incorrect).

    Planners thought the mission had a high chance of being a complete disaster, due to the new tactics and lack of any defenses on the bombers, but LeMay was convinced that Japanese night-fighting capability was minimal. However, he completely neglected to inform General Arnold, or anyone else above him, as to his plans. According to LeMay himself this was because he thought the mission was risky, and if it failed he didn't want it to bring down General Arnold or the USAAF in general. On March 9, LeMay's bombers left their airfields and around midnight the first bombs started falling on Tokyo.

    By morning, at absolute minimum 100,000 people were dead and another million homeless. The exact death toll for any bombing raid in WW2 usually has pretty significant error bars so its hard to compare things, but this raid was almost certainly more deadly than the blast of the nuke at Hiroshima, possibly more deadly than Hiroshima even including radiation, and definitely more deadly than the bomb at Nagasaki including radiation. At minimum 4 times more people died than during the Dresden bombing.

    But LeMay had his 'results', in the form of aerial photography showing that approximately 17 square miles of urban Tokyo was burned out. The response from both the press and General Arnold were both positive, and LeMay continued hitting Japan with similar (if less deadly, due to Japanese preparation, luck, and the fact that he'd already destroyed the most flammable section of Tokyo) raids every other night for 10 days until he ran out of napalm. When LeMay had destroyed the initial 6 cities that had been recommended for firebombing by the Strategic Bombing Survey (although they had been imagining high altitude, daylight bombing), the SBS recommended to General Arnold that LeMay revert back to traditional daylight precision bombing. LeMay proposed his own plan, which was effectively to rank the remaining Japanese cities in order of how flammable they were, and work his way down the list. LeMay's plan got Arnold's approval.

    From then on, the bombers would primarily launch incendiary attacks, although whenever weather was good precision raids against factories would be attempted, and other bombers would be diverted to help Admiral Nimitz with aerial minelaying operations (which proved incredibly deadly in their own way, doing a huge amount to cut off Japan from food imports it desperately needed). In this environment, the use of nuclear weapons against Japanese cities was a natural decision that nobody seriously questioned.

    For all the talk the decision to use nuclear weapons on Japan gets, especially with the Oppenheimer movie, I'm always annoyed that LeMay's singlehanded decision to burn Tokyo on March 9 hardly gets any mention. The firebombings in general may come up, but always as a fait accompli, something that was doomed to happen from the start, and not the unilateral decision of one man. If LeMay had decided the plan was too risky, or if Arnold had trusted Hansell and left him in command of the XXI Bomber Group, then WW2 in the Pacific could have had a different ending. Not necessarily better or worse, but different.

    21 votes
    1. [2]
      Wafik
      Link Parent
      Plus one for LeMay. Definitely an interesting figure in American history. Before Gladwell brought him back into my mind, I remember learning about him in my university WW2 class. Another...

      Plus one for LeMay. Definitely an interesting figure in American history. Before Gladwell brought him back into my mind, I remember learning about him in my university WW2 class.

      Another interesting aspect of his story is the Norden bomb sight. Norden was a great sales man and it turned out his bomb sight was nowhere near as accurate as he wanted you to believe, but that didn't stop it from being used well into the Korean war.

      The constant cloud cover over Japan, combined with the jetstream blowing bombs off course, made accurate bombing of factories impossible.

      This reminded me of the US military not knowing about the jetstream (while the Japanese did) and couldn't figure out why their bombs kept being blown off course by the jet stream.

      6 votes
      1. nukeman
        Link Parent
        The U.S. spent over a billion dollars on developing the Norden bombsight, similar in scale to the Manhattan Project. Today you can buy one on eBay for a couple grand. In contrast, good luck buying...

        The U.S. spent over a billion dollars on developing the Norden bombsight, similar in scale to the Manhattan Project. Today you can buy one on eBay for a couple grand. In contrast, good luck buying a nuke there.

  3. theoreticallyme
    Link
    Jay Gould is one of my favorites. He was one of the railroad barons in the era right after the civil war when the US had almost no economic regulations and Gould was one of the people who proved...

    Jay Gould is one of my favorites. He was one of the railroad barons in the era right after the civil war when the US had almost no economic regulations and Gould was one of the people who proved why we needed them.

    Gould is best know for cornering the gold market in the US when the dollar was backed by gold. He literally owned the money supply and US Grant had to ask him to stop. He started buying stock in gold through intermediaries and eventually his corner became known and he could manipulate the dollar.

    There was another incident in which he shorted a rivals stock and then spread a rumor on the trading floor that his rival had died, making a ton in profits due to his short. There’s the time he tried to kidnap a business rival for a rival railroad who owed him money. All fun times.

    I was really interested in how the US stopped accepting blatant corruption and nepotism and settled for more sneaky corruption and nepotism like we have today. Gould was a great example of the sort of person who flourishes when we have no rules. He’d have loved crypto.

    30 votes
  4. [5]
    saturnV
    Link
    Masochism is similarly named after a man, Leopold von Sacher-Masoch, who did not approve of this use of his name, as he denied the claim that he was a masochist. However, his erotic short stories...

    Masochism is similarly named after a man, Leopold von Sacher-Masoch, who did not approve of this use of his name, as he denied the claim that he was a masochist. However, his erotic short stories contained fetishes, e.g. dominant women wearing furs, which according to his wife's memoirs were also his own. He isn't anywhere near as outrageous as Sade, but it is fun to know that these ideas have always existed.

    Also, fun fact, the first written mention of pegging may have been in one of Sade's books!

    23 votes
    1. [3]
      catahoula_leopard
      Link Parent
      Yes! This was mentioned when I was reading about Marquis de Sade. Like Sade/sadism, I had no idea that term was named after an actual person. I didn't follow through to learn more about it,...

      Masochism is similarly named after a man, Leopold von Sacher-Masoch

      Yes! This was mentioned when I was reading about Marquis de Sade. Like Sade/sadism, I had no idea that term was named after an actual person. I didn't follow through to learn more about it, because seriously, there were so many bizarre pieces of information I came across while reading about Sade. But I will look into it now.

      Also, fun fact, the first written mention of pegging may have been in one of Sade's books!

      That's something that struck me about Sade's contributions to art and culture - for a number of things he wrote about, it was possibly the very first time those concepts were openly acknowledged in society (concepts that are considered some of the most progressive of our day.) One concept being the idea that it's fine to view women and men indistinguishably on a sexual level. Another probably being the concept of BDSM. I'm sure BDSM appeared in human history before the 18th century, but as far as the modern term, Marquis de Sade is literally in the name. I imagine that daring to acknowledge these concepts for the first time was a big part of why he was so impactful as a writer/philosopher, regardless of the lens by which he acknowledged them.

      11 votes
      1. [2]
        boxer_dogs_dance
        Link Parent
        I'm not a historian, but have you included the ancient Greeks and Romans or the various cultures of the Indian subcontinent in the scope of your use of 'society'? This would be a good...

        I'm not a historian, but have you included the ancient Greeks and Romans or the various cultures of the Indian subcontinent in the scope of your use of 'society'? This would be a good r/askhistorians question I think.

        3 votes
        1. catahoula_leopard
          Link Parent
          Thanks for pointing this out, because obviously the Greeks, Romans, and other cultures spearheaded many concepts related to sexual deviancy, especially related to homosexuality. I didn't research...

          Thanks for pointing this out, because obviously the Greeks, Romans, and other cultures spearheaded many concepts related to sexual deviancy, especially related to homosexuality. I didn't research or look for sources when writing that last comment, and I'm definitely speaking in hyperbole a bit - maybe it would be more appropriate to say that he wrote about some of those things for the first time in the general time period and location he lived in. And overall, he challenged any and all beliefs about the boundaries of human sexuality, which I believe no one had ever done in quite the extreme manner that he did.

          I also want to clarify that don't mean to hold him up as some kind of misunderstood genius - Marquis de Sade was an irredeemably disgusting rapist, abuser, and pedophile. It's just that he seems to have been the loudest, most outspoken rapist, abuser, and pedophile that the world had ever seen, and his works and ideas, whatever value they had, were unbelievably impactful on the rest of history and the cultural understanding of sexuality in many countries.

          2 votes
    2. Very_Bad_Janet
      Link Parent
      From the Wikipedia link: That was a random surprise.

      From the Wikipedia link:

      Sacher-Masoch is the great-uncle of Eva von Sacher-Masoch, Baroness Erisso, mother of British singer and actress Marianne Faithfull.

      That was a random surprise.

      3 votes
  5. [6]
    updawg
    Link
    I'm not sure from the way you write about this if you realize this, but Marquis was his title, not his first name (his full name/title being Donatien Alphonse François, Marquis de Sade). A marquis...

    I'm not sure from the way you write about this if you realize this, but Marquis was his title, not his first name (his full name/title being Donatien Alphonse François, Marquis de Sade). A marquis (Marquess in English) is basically equivalent to a Count but their county is located in the borderlands--"mark" historically being a term for borderlands (e.g. Denmark), and, incidentally, it is cognate with "march" (they share an etymology).

    20 votes
    1. [2]
      tildin
      Link Parent
      So he was marquis of Sade, with his actual name being Donatien Alphonse François?

      So he was marquis of Sade, with his actual name being Donatien Alphonse François?

      6 votes
    2. [3]
      catahoula_leopard
      Link Parent
      I knew Marquis was a title, though I didn't know these details behind what it means. Thanks! Is it still grammatically correct to refer to him as Sade for short? I think that's how I saw it...

      I knew Marquis was a title, though I didn't know these details behind what it means. Thanks! Is it still grammatically correct to refer to him as Sade for short? I think that's how I saw it written in most places I looked.

      2 votes
      1. [2]
        updawg
        Link Parent
        I guess. Wikipedia does it. You see it in Shakespeare, I've seen it with the Duke of Wellington. Seems like it just feels weird with this guy because we usually use his full title.

        I guess. Wikipedia does it. You see it in Shakespeare, I've seen it with the Duke of Wellington. Seems like it just feels weird with this guy because we usually use his full title.

        1 vote
        1. catahoula_leopard
          Link Parent
          Who is "we?"

          Seems like it just feels weird with this guy because we usually use his full title.

          Who is "we?"

  6. [3]
    PetitPrince
    Link
    I had the... opportunity to see the manuscript in person when I was in high school. It was on display in Fondation Bodmer alongside more prestigious works (like Gutenberg Bible). Those scraps of...

    Sade wrote The 120 Days of Sodom on scraps of paper

    I had the... opportunity to see the manuscript in person when I was in high school. It was on display in Fondation Bodmer alongside more prestigious works (like Gutenberg Bible). Those scraps of paper are somewhat assembled in a fairly large roll. Having actually read some of it (I too was a bored teenager awake way paste bedtime), I cannot help but to think it was in fact written on toilet paper.

    13 votes
    1. [2]
      catahoula_leopard
      Link Parent
      I'm glad my intro setting the scene probably resonated with you. Is this a jab at the quality of the writing, or a joke about the ...fecal subject matter? I can appreciate it either way, ha.

      Having actually read some of it (I too was a bored teenager awake way past bedtime)

      I'm glad my intro setting the scene probably resonated with you.

      I cannot help but to think it was in fact written on toilet paper

      Is this a jab at the quality of the writing, or a joke about the ...fecal subject matter? I can appreciate it either way, ha.

      7 votes
      1. PetitPrince
        Link Parent
        A bit of both ? His writings sounds like an extended Aristocrats joke. With that in mind, it would make sense to have this written on toilet paper. With a mix of various bodily fluid as ink maybe ?

        Is this a jab at the quality of the writing, or a joke about the ...fecal subject matter

        A bit of both ? His writings sounds like an extended Aristocrats joke. With that in mind, it would make sense to have this written on toilet paper. With a mix of various bodily fluid as ink maybe ?

        7 votes
  7. boxer_dogs_dance
    Link
    I haven't read it yet, but this book by Edmund Richardson tells the story of one of history's true characters. The King's Shadow: Obsession, Betrayal, and the Deadly Quest for the Lost City of...

    I haven't read it yet, but this book by Edmund Richardson tells the story of one of history's true characters.
    The King's Shadow: Obsession, Betrayal, and the Deadly Quest for the Lost City of Alexandria
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Masson

    He worked for the British East India company for part of his life.

    The story of the British East India Company is itself wild. The Anarchy is a good book about it, but the facts are just unexpected and interesting

    8 votes
  8. [3]
    Not_Enough_Gravitas
    Link
    I wouldn't consider them strange, but in the past year I went down a deep rabbit hole reading up on public executioners, their application of punishment relative to the crimes committed and...

    I wouldn't consider them strange, but in the past year I went down a deep rabbit hole reading up on public executioners, their application of punishment relative to the crimes committed and finally methods of execution.

    The most famous few being Master Franz Schmidt (1555 - 1634) executioner of Nuremberg who kept a detailed diary of his work. This diary gives an excellent insight into crime rates, various crimes, and the final punishment applied. It also opens the readers eyes that public executioners weren't just brutes lopping heads off, they were complex members of society, many of which were cursed to do this job with little choice in the matter. Unfortunately the original diary is lost, which makes me sad because I wanted to see it in person one day.

    Another one is Charles-Henri Sanson (1739-1806) a French executioner who played a role in the implementation of the guillotine. He kept an excellent memior which not only gives details on the various crimes and punishments at the time, but also goes into detail on the fight for justice and fairness for his families role and title in society. Executioners were mostly regarded as unclean and undesirable members of society, they were not even considered citizens in the towns they lived in. Henri fought for many years to increase his pay, obtain citizens rights (which would allow his children to obtain higher education and new employment opportunities outside being executioners) and change the way society viewed the role of public executioners in France.

    Of course when there are "good" executioners there are always bad ones to level everything out. Good/bad in this case meaning how mercifully and cleanly an act of punishment or execution was carried out. There were standards to be held!

    There was Jack Ketch ( - 1686), one of the worst ones to ever hold the title of public executioner. His monstrous application of punishment and tendency to really fuck up executions nearly had him run out of town or murdered by the crowd on a few occasions.

    There are a few others but I'm on mobile and my fingers are about to fall off after tapping all this out. As of today I am still fascinated by this subject matter and have a few dozen more individuals and countless books lined up to read about them.

    8 votes
    1. TheMediumJon
      Link Parent
      Speaking of executioners, there's the tale of John C Woods, executioner of the US Army and at the Nuremberg trials. He had no prior hanging experience when the US had him start hanging convicted...

      Speaking of executioners, there's the tale of John C Woods, executioner of the US Army and at the Nuremberg trials.

      He had no prior hanging experience when the US had him start hanging convicted soldiers and remained a rather incompetent one by the time of Nuremberg.

      4 votes
    2. catahoula_leopard
      Link Parent
      Oh god, I never considered that there may have been executioners that wanted nothing to do with their work, or weren't generally evil. That's slightly horrifying. It sounds like Jack Ketch...

      Oh god, I never considered that there may have been executioners that wanted nothing to do with their work, or weren't generally evil. That's slightly horrifying.

      It sounds like Jack Ketch would've felt right at home if he was hired to do executions for the US government. He wouldn't even have to try very hard to botch them up, seems like it's almost designed that way...

      1 vote
  9. [2]
    chromebby
    Link
    Your first paragraph was me! I went down the 'extreme cinema' rabbit hole a while back, sort of just browsing at work and not believing what I was reading lol. Sickened, but curious. And I wanted...

    Your first paragraph was me! I went down the 'extreme cinema' rabbit hole a while back, sort of just browsing at work and not believing what I was reading lol. Sickened, but curious. And I wanted to know WHY on earth these crazy films were made. So, even though I doubt I would ever watch it, thank you for the interesting insight on Salò. :)

    4 votes
    1. catahoula_leopard
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Yeah, I don't recommend watching it if you feel sickened just by reading the summary. I have a strong sense of morbid curiosity, and for some reason films like this don't really get to me. I just...

      Yeah, I don't recommend watching it if you feel sickened just by reading the summary. I have a strong sense of morbid curiosity, and for some reason films like this don't really get to me. I just can't handle lots of realistic gore, and the gore in this film, while disturbing, was shown only for a few seconds.

      As for why it was made, the atrocities in the film are meant to represent the abject horror inflicted on people by the Italian fascist regime, so there is a deeper idea/message behind it than many of the other films that are grouped with it on "most disturbing" film lists. However, if you are interested in the concept, you can easily learn about it by reading reviews or discussions of the film. No need to expose your eyes to it in order to understand the concepts behind it!

      1 vote
  10. mattgif
    Link
    Have you heard of George Washington? He was the very first president of the United States! He was also a general. And very tall for his time, but not so tall that people wouldn't swipe past him on...

    Have you heard of George Washington? He was the very first president of the United States!

    He was also a general. And very tall for his time, but not so tall that people wouldn't swipe past him on Tindr.