Detransitioners exist but they are few and far between, especially when ruling out those who detrans due to lack of acceptance and social problems. Just to supplement OP, here's more proof that...
Detransitioners exist but they are few and far between, especially when ruling out those who detrans due to lack of acceptance and social problems.
Just to supplement OP, here's more proof that regret rate for trans people getting surgeries is astonishingly low:
Among 1989 individuals who underwent GAS, six (0.3%) either requested reversal surgery or transitioned back to their sex assigned at birth.
They compare it to the regret rate for knee surgery:
Interestingly, knee replacement surgery has a dissatisfactory rate of 6-30%. The rate is up to 100 times that of gender-affirming surgery.
Surveys conducted over the last few years on representative samples in the US and Germany suggest that the percentage of parents who regret having children is approximately 17–8%.
So yeah, I think it's safe to conclude that trans people are more than sure of their transition and surgeries.
"Yeah, but this is just a phase you'll grow out of." Is then used to ensure that the trans person is made to seem like a child, rather than a functioning adult who can make their own choices......
So yeah, I think it's safe to conclude that trans people are more than sure of their transition and surgeries.
"Yeah, but this is just a phase you'll grow out of." Is then used to ensure that the trans person is made to seem like a child, rather than a functioning adult who can make their own choices... thus needing the abuser to 'stick up for them' and justify this crappy behaviour and stats cherry-picking.
I saw this a lot when a close friend transitioned M > F and it appalled me everytime.
Anecdotally, I was speaking to a couple of older women the other day and one said she'd take another hip replacement, but she'd not do another knee replacement because the recovery was just too...
Anecdotally, I was speaking to a couple of older women the other day and one said she'd take another hip replacement, but she'd not do another knee replacement because the recovery was just too painful. If her experience is typical I'm not surprised the rates of regret are high.
Though the barrier to entry for gender-affirming surgery is so high, it's not surprising that regrets are low when it takes such dedication to get. If it were more freely available that percentage would probably creep up (but still nowhere near the levels that anti-trans propaganda claims).
Really, any plastic surgery should be properly vetted and approved. Unfortunately, you can get whatever done to your tits and nose as long as you can drop the cash. But, that vetting should be...
Really, any plastic surgery should be properly vetted and approved. Unfortunately, you can get whatever done to your tits and nose as long as you can drop the cash. But, that vetting should be done from a position of understanding and reassurance instead of trying to talk them out of it. The process should be to ensure the patient absolutely knows everything that's about to change in their lives and understands the risks/limitations of it.
Bodily autonomy means that you have to allow people to make mistakes. It's their body, they are the only person who has the right to say what happens to it.
Unfortunately, you can get whatever done to your tits and nose as long as you can drop the cash
Bodily autonomy means that you have to allow people to make mistakes. It's their body, they are the only person who has the right to say what happens to it.
I think it's reasonable to expect some limitations upon that. But if you put limitations the question is always where. If I show up to a plastic surgeon with a trash bag full of garbage and a...
I think it's reasonable to expect some limitations upon that. But if you put limitations the question is always where.
If I show up to a plastic surgeon with a trash bag full of garbage and a blank check, I shouldn't just be able to say "put the trash in me" and have it done. Especially in a country with public health care like mine (Canada) where the public would have to pay for the fallout from that when I immediately need medical attention.
The problem of course is that transphobes view gender reassignment surgery in that light - as mutilation, rather than as a corrective surgery that will help the recipient... and think they are helping people (specifically, they frame it around protecting kids) by preventing it from happening.
Letting people do whatever they want to their bodies is different than assisting in it. As a society we try to help people from themselves with all sorts of addictions, but plastic surgery...
Letting people do whatever they want to their bodies is different than assisting in it. As a society we try to help people from themselves with all sorts of addictions, but plastic surgery addiction is rarely treated with little more than mockery. There can also be cultural issues like in South Korea where women are pressured into getting eyelid surgery to "look right".
These changes are typically irreversible and always lifelong. So while it's great that we have the tools to help change genetic features, it's a tool that needs to be used responsibly.
Anti-trans campaigners make a lot of noise about regret rates for gender affirming surgery provided to trans and non-binary people. Obviously they don't make any noise about gender affirming...
Anti-trans campaigners make a lot of noise about regret rates for gender affirming surgery provided to trans and non-binary people. Obviously they don't make any noise about gender affirming healthcare provided to cis people, or the gender surgeries provided to intersex people. And obviously they do not talk about regret rates for any other types of surgery.
This small study is yet another bit of research showing that trans people getting gender affirming surgery have very low rates of regret. The research shows that rates of regret are far lower for this type of surgery than they are for things like knee replacements or cancer surgery or etc etc.
It's the same thing with abortion source where most don't regret it but you wouldn't know that if you went to my childhood church. The individuals who disagree with people's rights will always use...
It's the same thing with abortion source where most don't regret it but you wouldn't know that if you went to my childhood church.
The individuals who disagree with people's rights will always use the edge cases to confirm their emotional biases and leave the rest of the evidence at the door.
I am glad to see data that affirms the treatment for surgery. I do have interest in also seeing how people feel about hormone therapy post-treatment purely because that isn't as concrete visually, physically to see/feel the change especially since it's more of a scale.
It seems this study combined with previous studies is showing good short-term satisfaction and some initial long term satisfaction. I have to wonder how the increased anti-trans legislation impacts participation though, as it was clear several people did not return the study.
Still have a long ways to go towards protecting the privacy and rights of individuals seeking treatment to obtain it.
Great article, thanks for sharing this OP I assume the rate of people who undergo de-transition would be low, but had no idea it was this miniscule! Certainly goes to show anti-trans rhetoric is...
Great article, thanks for sharing this OP
I assume the rate of people who undergo de-transition would be low, but had no idea it was this miniscule!
Certainly goes to show anti-trans rhetoric is bullshit motivated by hate.
Thanks for posting this. This may be something I'll share with doctors/medical professionals during my kid's journey to trying to get a mastectomy. I was just daydreaming earlier how I may explain...
Thanks for posting this. This may be something I'll share with doctors/medical professionals during my kid's journey to trying to get a mastectomy.
I was just daydreaming earlier how I may explain to a family member why my non-binary 15 year old wants a mastectomy and the best thing I've come up with so far is:
A cis-male 15 year old has man boobs and wants to get them removed
A non-binary 15 year old wants to get their boobs removed
In both cases, having breasts is causing gender dysphoria and I'm going to hazard a guess that it's a lot more accepted and easier for cis-male 15 year olds to get moobs removed and that they won't require any or as much counseling and other hoops to get the surgery. And I also doubt there's as many religious people freaking out about the cis-male saying he should keep the boobs "God" gave him.
If you have other ideas to help explain to a family member who supports trans (binary trans) but just can't understand non-binary and why someone would want booby choppy, but keep their vagina, and not want to start dressing/presenting male, etc., let me know.
I think the example of a cis male with gynecomastia is a good one, you could also bring up other forms of top surgery: lots of cis women get breast augmentation as a form of gender-affirming care...
ideas to help explain to a family member who supports trans (binary trans) but just can't understand non-binary and why someone would want booby choppy
I think the example of a cis male with gynecomastia is a good one, you could also bring up other forms of top surgery:
lots of cis women get breast augmentation as a form of gender-affirming care (and I think there's a whole class of harmful stereotypes about women who get breast implants)
and there are cis women who get breast reductions, often for reasons such as reducing back pain, and not necessarily for gender-affirming reasons.
the overarching theme is that people modify their bodies for a wide variety of reasons, and we can always empathize with those desires even if we don't have first-hand experience with them.
Most people understand that you don’t have to wear dresses to be a cis woman or wear pants to be a cis man. Yet many people seem to believe you need an androgynous style to be nonbinary, creating the assumption that I and other nonbinary people who wear women’s clothes must be women.
Many people might say that nonbinary is like the grey area of gender — undefined space between more defined areas. However, because grey is a mixture of black and white it is inherently defined by the constructs of the colors it is comprised of. I think nonbinary is the whole crayon box. It is every paint on the easel. It is everything and nothing and a couple things. Nonbinary is limitless. My expression and my socialization falls on the femme side, but being nonbinary is not about what is perceived of me. Nonbinary is the liberation from the need to make myself smaller to fit into preconceived ideas of who and what I am. Nonbinary is the experience of myself without definition.
if you're comfortable with it, and if they want one, you could give your kid a Tildes invite and they could read & post here as well. Tildes in general and ~lgbt in particular are very welcoming, queerphobia gets nuked from orbit. (if your account is too new to have invite codes, I'd be happy to PM you one of mine)
To add to this, boobs can sometimes (often?) be a bit of a pain to work around when dressing and managing ones' appearance? I'm going in the opposite direction (flat chest -> HRT -> boobs) and I...
and there are cis women who get breast reductions, often for reasons such as reducing back pain, and not necessarily for gender-affirming reasons.
To add to this, boobs can sometimes (often?) be a bit of a pain to work around when dressing and managing ones' appearance? I'm going in the opposite direction (flat chest -> HRT -> boobs) and I kind of miss how comfy a flat chest used to be. I could just throw on a tee without worrying about the tightness of the fit. Bras can be so hot and sweaty on summer days, too! Having a plain ol' boxy silhouette is just kinda... Freeing in a lot of ways? It doesn't really attract attention in the same way. It's neutral-feeling, and kinda stealth. To the point where I even have a binder I use depending on the outfit, even though I opted into boobs!
I can imagine the stealth aspect but getting older also had that effect. :D I also appreciate you sharing why you use a binder sometimes too. I once had a friend who got a breast reduction and was...
I can imagine the stealth aspect but getting older also had that effect. :D I also appreciate you sharing why you use a binder sometimes too.
I once had a friend who got a breast reduction and was thrilled with it, e.g., being able to sleep on her stomach without pain or on her side without needing to reposition anything, being able to wear smaller strapped bras and have less back pain, finding it easier to find clothing that fit well, more comfort exercising, etc.
Not even just appearance. I sleep best on my stomach. While I'm perfectly satisfied with the appearance of my boobs, it would be nice to have a nap that didn't make my lower ribs ache.
Not even just appearance. I sleep best on my stomach. While I'm perfectly satisfied with the appearance of my boobs, it would be nice to have a nap that didn't make my lower ribs ache.
Thank you so much for sharing those links. I think they'll help my kid to feel more comfortable expressing themselves how they want and feel less boxed in by what they fear other people will...
Thank you so much for sharing those links. I think they'll help my kid to feel more comfortable expressing themselves how they want and feel less boxed in by what they fear other people will think.
Also, it's crucially important for them to see non-binary people are are having good lives and especially the third link may help with that. Navigating Canada's healthcare system has been hell and sometimes it's difficult for them to believe that they will someday get the surgery.
Also thanks for offering to provide an invitation should they decide they want to join Tildes. Unfortunately when I first mentioned both Lemmy and Tildes, they said they didn't want anything other than Reddit. But if that changes and they decide they want to join Tildes, I'll PM you.
This is a good point. At the end of the day adding or subtracting mass from a person's breasts is an essentially aesthetic operation, for lack of better terminology. It's just plastic surgery. You...
This is a good point. At the end of the day adding or subtracting mass from a person's breasts is an essentially aesthetic operation, for lack of better terminology. It's just plastic surgery. You don't have to be trans or enby to get psychological benefits from having it. Even cis women get breast reduction surgery from time to time, and some cis men get pec implants to give them a more "muscular" look.
I'm gonna focus on something a little different - breast reduction, instead of mastectomy (bc mastectomies in young people haven't really historically been a thing). Breast reductions are legal...
A cis-male 15 year old has man boobs and wants to get them removed
A non-binary 15 year old wants to get their boobs removed
I'm gonna focus on something a little different - breast reduction, instead of mastectomy (bc mastectomies in young people haven't really historically been a thing).
Breast reductions are legal for underage people but usually require parental consent under 18, sometimes under 16 depending where. So legally, they can be done. But we aren't talking about the legality, we're talking about the social acceptance.
I think social acceptance usually comes with necessity. These procedures are almost never recommended by doctors to people under 18 because they aren't considered necessary except in extreme circumstances. Part of the reason is indecision in children but another part is that their bodies are still growing, so removing or reducing the breasts in the midst of that process isn't ideal and it's better to wait until they've finished puberty.
However, in a case where a girl's boobs are absolutely enormous and are causing significant difficulties and pain, reduction would be recommended even at that young age. Similarly, for a boy who actually has legit moobs - as in, not just a tubby boy who's flabby all over, but a boy who specifically has disproportionately larger deposits of fat in his chest... it's likely indicative of some hormonal imbalance/medical condition, and would be more likely to be recommended for reduction/removal while underage.
So the question for some people becomes: is breast removal medically necessary, and is it medically necessary at that age rather than at 16/18? And the answer will depend on who you ask. If we accept that gender dysphoria is a medical condition and booby choppy will help with that, then perhaps the answer is yes. But it's a hard sell for a lot of people.
I will be honest that even as someone who thinks it is totally fine to start kids younger than your 15 year old on hormone blockers, and as someone who enjoys crossdressing, I struggle to say that I think it's okay to perform a surgery like that on a child, and that's because I don't feel like it is paramount to their physical health. But I'm also saying that as someone who isn't trans or nonbinary and I realize it's not really possible for me to put myself in the shoes of someone who has gender dysphoria so bad that they want to physically alter their body. For them it may indeed feel like a "I need this and if I can't do it in the next 3 years it's going to destroy me" situation.
I think it would help if there was a study of people who got top surgery between 15-17 years old and the percentage that had regrets later. It's a case by case basis for sure and I can understand...
I think it would help if there was a study of people who got top surgery between 15-17 years old and the percentage that had regrets later.
It's a case by case basis for sure and I can understand the requirements for youth to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria as well as have a Doctor sign off that they are a good candidate for surgery -- both of which presumably determine if the benefits of surgery outweigh the risks.
Another factor is that suicide ideation tends to be lessened once someone has completed their transition. E.g., 20% in those not planning a transition (perhaps gender dysphoria is lower for them?), 46% planning but not yet begun, 36% in process, 23% once transition has been completed. Source (EDIT to add those stats include medical and/or surgical transitions.)
Canada's healthcare system forces people into the category you said, e.g., If I can't do it in the next 3 years it's going to destroy me situation. Basically it's classist with very long wait lists. I think it took me 3-4 years after being referred to an allergist before I finally met her. And while seeing her was free, meds aren't covered so if I didn't have $1000/year to pay for the 2 serums for her to inject me with, I would still be suffering. Similarly seeing a psychiatrist is free but the meds aren't. Counselling is not covered at all and neither is dental.
A Psychologist I contacted told me it would cost us about $5K (requires many, many, sessions over time) for her to diagnose our kid with gender dysphoria and decide whether she could sign off on surgery. She said when she used to work in a trans health clinic most people just got their Psychiatrist to sign off...but the kid's Psychiatrist doesn't feel comfortable diagnosing that as he focuses more on the medication side than counseling.
And so it's also difficult to find medical professionals who are also educated on and comfortable with LGBTQ+ health. For instance any doctor in Canada can give Testosterone but our kid's family doctor isn't comfortable doing that...Our kid just wants to talk to someone about the pros and cons so that's more wait lists to see who they get to meet first -- a gynecologist or an endocrinologist. The gynecologist we found ourselves by calling many to ensure we first found one is comfortable with trans health especially with youth and then our doctor sent the referral to her about 9 months ago.
Anyway I'm sharing all of this to show that top surgery (at least here) isn't a thing a child can decide and parents approve and then get quickly. We're currently on a waiting list for a University hospital's trans program who has all the professionals needed who have the required (by the government) LGBT health training to diagnose/sign off. Our health care is so fragmented that we're hopeful having a multidisciplinary approach where medical professionals will actually talk to each other will be more helpful and also put an end to multiple waiting lists.
Also they use binders that can hurt them with continuous use. The mental health aspect can't be ignored either. I'm fine with the year of live in experience and therapy but after that they should...
Also they use binders that can hurt them with continuous use. The mental health aspect can't be ignored either. I'm fine with the year of live in experience and therapy but after that they should be allowed to go forward with Drs recommendation. The states religious dictators should not have a say.
I don't think the govt/law should stand in front of it either as I said, and they don't do that for breast reductions which at the end of the day are a very similar deal. But point is doctors...
I don't think the govt/law should stand in front of it either as I said, and they don't do that for breast reductions which at the end of the day are a very similar deal. But point is doctors aren't going to recommend it unless they think it's truly necessary and I could imagine doctors feeling hard pressed to justify it vs waiting. While something like preventing access to hormone blockers has very real and irreversible consequences, waiting for a cosmetic mastectomy does not.
Mental health issues are a lot harder to qualify and usually aren't the domain of someone who will be assessing the need for surgery.
There could also potentially be medical complications that arise from removing someone's breasts while they are still growing/still going through puberty but that I'm not sure of (and if we are talking about breast removal that's obviously someone who is undergoing female puberty).
Detransitioners exist but they are few and far between, especially when ruling out those who detrans due to lack of acceptance and social problems.
Just to supplement OP, here's more proof that regret rate for trans people getting surgeries is astonishingly low:
They compare it to the regret rate for knee surgery:
And the regret rate for having children, just as another comparison:
So yeah, I think it's safe to conclude that trans people are more than sure of their transition and surgeries.
"Yeah, but this is just a phase you'll grow out of." Is then used to ensure that the trans person is made to seem like a child, rather than a functioning adult who can make their own choices... thus needing the abuser to 'stick up for them' and justify this crappy behaviour and stats cherry-picking.
I saw this a lot when a close friend transitioned M > F and it appalled me everytime.
Anecdotally, I was speaking to a couple of older women the other day and one said she'd take another hip replacement, but she'd not do another knee replacement because the recovery was just too painful. If her experience is typical I'm not surprised the rates of regret are high.
Though the barrier to entry for gender-affirming surgery is so high, it's not surprising that regrets are low when it takes such dedication to get. If it were more freely available that percentage would probably creep up (but still nowhere near the levels that anti-trans propaganda claims).
Really, any plastic surgery should be properly vetted and approved. Unfortunately, you can get whatever done to your tits and nose as long as you can drop the cash. But, that vetting should be done from a position of understanding and reassurance instead of trying to talk them out of it. The process should be to ensure the patient absolutely knows everything that's about to change in their lives and understands the risks/limitations of it.
Bodily autonomy means that you have to allow people to make mistakes. It's their body, they are the only person who has the right to say what happens to it.
I think it's reasonable to expect some limitations upon that. But if you put limitations the question is always where.
If I show up to a plastic surgeon with a trash bag full of garbage and a blank check, I shouldn't just be able to say "put the trash in me" and have it done. Especially in a country with public health care like mine (Canada) where the public would have to pay for the fallout from that when I immediately need medical attention.
The problem of course is that transphobes view gender reassignment surgery in that light - as mutilation, rather than as a corrective surgery that will help the recipient... and think they are helping people (specifically, they frame it around protecting kids) by preventing it from happening.
Letting people do whatever they want to their bodies is different than assisting in it. As a society we try to help people from themselves with all sorts of addictions, but plastic surgery addiction is rarely treated with little more than mockery. There can also be cultural issues like in South Korea where women are pressured into getting eyelid surgery to "look right".
These changes are typically irreversible and always lifelong. So while it's great that we have the tools to help change genetic features, it's a tool that needs to be used responsibly.
Anti-trans campaigners make a lot of noise about regret rates for gender affirming surgery provided to trans and non-binary people. Obviously they don't make any noise about gender affirming healthcare provided to cis people, or the gender surgeries provided to intersex people. And obviously they do not talk about regret rates for any other types of surgery.
This small study is yet another bit of research showing that trans people getting gender affirming surgery have very low rates of regret. The research shows that rates of regret are far lower for this type of surgery than they are for things like knee replacements or cancer surgery or etc etc.
It's the same thing with abortion source where most don't regret it but you wouldn't know that if you went to my childhood church.
The individuals who disagree with people's rights will always use the edge cases to confirm their emotional biases and leave the rest of the evidence at the door.
I am glad to see data that affirms the treatment for surgery. I do have interest in also seeing how people feel about hormone therapy post-treatment purely because that isn't as concrete visually, physically to see/feel the change especially since it's more of a scale.
It seems this study combined with previous studies is showing good short-term satisfaction and some initial long term satisfaction. I have to wonder how the increased anti-trans legislation impacts participation though, as it was clear several people did not return the study.
Still have a long ways to go towards protecting the privacy and rights of individuals seeking treatment to obtain it.
Great article, thanks for sharing this OP
I assume the rate of people who undergo de-transition would be low, but had no idea it was this miniscule!
Certainly goes to show anti-trans rhetoric is bullshit motivated by hate.
And as always, trans rights are human rights.
Thanks for posting this. This may be something I'll share with doctors/medical professionals during my kid's journey to trying to get a mastectomy.
I was just daydreaming earlier how I may explain to a family member why my non-binary 15 year old wants a mastectomy and the best thing I've come up with so far is:
A cis-male 15 year old has man boobs and wants to get them removed
A non-binary 15 year old wants to get their boobs removed
In both cases, having breasts is causing gender dysphoria and I'm going to hazard a guess that it's a lot more accepted and easier for cis-male 15 year olds to get moobs removed and that they won't require any or as much counseling and other hoops to get the surgery. And I also doubt there's as many religious people freaking out about the cis-male saying he should keep the boobs "God" gave him.
If you have other ideas to help explain to a family member who supports trans (binary trans) but just can't understand non-binary and why someone would want booby choppy, but keep their vagina, and not want to start dressing/presenting male, etc., let me know.
And I just found this which I'll share with my 15 year old as I know they have a lot of anxiety and fear of judgement if they choose to wear a skirt around people who know they are non-binary. CBC.ca: I shouldn't have to 'look' non-binary for my identity to be respected
I think the example of a cis male with gynecomastia is a good one, you could also bring up other forms of top surgery:
lots of cis women get breast augmentation as a form of gender-affirming care (and I think there's a whole class of harmful stereotypes about women who get breast implants)
and there are cis women who get breast reductions, often for reasons such as reducing back pain, and not necessarily for gender-affirming reasons.
the overarching theme is that people modify their bodies for a wide variety of reasons, and we can always empathize with those desires even if we don't have first-hand experience with them.
some other articles your kid might like:
What Does It Mean To ‘Look’ Non-Binary?
12 Things People Get Wrong About Being Nonbinary
This Is What Gender-Nonbinary People Look Like
there's also nonbinary and gender tags you can peruse.
if you're comfortable with it, and if they want one, you could give your kid a Tildes invite and they could read & post here as well. Tildes in general and ~lgbt in particular are very welcoming, queerphobia gets nuked from orbit. (if your account is too new to have invite codes, I'd be happy to PM you one of mine)
To add to this, boobs can sometimes (often?) be a bit of a pain to work around when dressing and managing ones' appearance? I'm going in the opposite direction (flat chest -> HRT -> boobs) and I kind of miss how comfy a flat chest used to be. I could just throw on a tee without worrying about the tightness of the fit. Bras can be so hot and sweaty on summer days, too! Having a plain ol' boxy silhouette is just kinda... Freeing in a lot of ways? It doesn't really attract attention in the same way. It's neutral-feeling, and kinda stealth. To the point where I even have a binder I use depending on the outfit, even though I opted into boobs!
I can imagine the stealth aspect but getting older also had that effect. :D I also appreciate you sharing why you use a binder sometimes too.
I once had a friend who got a breast reduction and was thrilled with it, e.g., being able to sleep on her stomach without pain or on her side without needing to reposition anything, being able to wear smaller strapped bras and have less back pain, finding it easier to find clothing that fit well, more comfort exercising, etc.
Not even just appearance. I sleep best on my stomach. While I'm perfectly satisfied with the appearance of my boobs, it would be nice to have a nap that didn't make my lower ribs ache.
Thank you so much for sharing those links. I think they'll help my kid to feel more comfortable expressing themselves how they want and feel less boxed in by what they fear other people will think.
Also, it's crucially important for them to see non-binary people are are having good lives and especially the third link may help with that. Navigating Canada's healthcare system has been hell and sometimes it's difficult for them to believe that they will someday get the surgery.
Also thanks for offering to provide an invitation should they decide they want to join Tildes. Unfortunately when I first mentioned both Lemmy and Tildes, they said they didn't want anything other than Reddit. But if that changes and they decide they want to join Tildes, I'll PM you.
This is a good point. At the end of the day adding or subtracting mass from a person's breasts is an essentially aesthetic operation, for lack of better terminology. It's just plastic surgery. You don't have to be trans or enby to get psychological benefits from having it. Even cis women get breast reduction surgery from time to time, and some cis men get pec implants to give them a more "muscular" look.
I'm gonna focus on something a little different - breast reduction, instead of mastectomy (bc mastectomies in young people haven't really historically been a thing).
Breast reductions are legal for underage people but usually require parental consent under 18, sometimes under 16 depending where. So legally, they can be done. But we aren't talking about the legality, we're talking about the social acceptance.
I think social acceptance usually comes with necessity. These procedures are almost never recommended by doctors to people under 18 because they aren't considered necessary except in extreme circumstances. Part of the reason is indecision in children but another part is that their bodies are still growing, so removing or reducing the breasts in the midst of that process isn't ideal and it's better to wait until they've finished puberty.
However, in a case where a girl's boobs are absolutely enormous and are causing significant difficulties and pain, reduction would be recommended even at that young age. Similarly, for a boy who actually has legit moobs - as in, not just a tubby boy who's flabby all over, but a boy who specifically has disproportionately larger deposits of fat in his chest... it's likely indicative of some hormonal imbalance/medical condition, and would be more likely to be recommended for reduction/removal while underage.
So the question for some people becomes: is breast removal medically necessary, and is it medically necessary at that age rather than at 16/18? And the answer will depend on who you ask. If we accept that gender dysphoria is a medical condition and booby choppy will help with that, then perhaps the answer is yes. But it's a hard sell for a lot of people.
I will be honest that even as someone who thinks it is totally fine to start kids younger than your 15 year old on hormone blockers, and as someone who enjoys crossdressing, I struggle to say that I think it's okay to perform a surgery like that on a child, and that's because I don't feel like it is paramount to their physical health. But I'm also saying that as someone who isn't trans or nonbinary and I realize it's not really possible for me to put myself in the shoes of someone who has gender dysphoria so bad that they want to physically alter their body. For them it may indeed feel like a "I need this and if I can't do it in the next 3 years it's going to destroy me" situation.
I think it would help if there was a study of people who got top surgery between 15-17 years old and the percentage that had regrets later.
It's a case by case basis for sure and I can understand the requirements for youth to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria as well as have a Doctor sign off that they are a good candidate for surgery -- both of which presumably determine if the benefits of surgery outweigh the risks.
Another factor is that suicide ideation tends to be lessened once someone has completed their transition. E.g., 20% in those not planning a transition (perhaps gender dysphoria is lower for them?), 46% planning but not yet begun, 36% in process, 23% once transition has been completed. Source (EDIT to add those stats include medical and/or surgical transitions.)
Canada's healthcare system forces people into the category you said, e.g., If I can't do it in the next 3 years it's going to destroy me situation. Basically it's classist with very long wait lists. I think it took me 3-4 years after being referred to an allergist before I finally met her. And while seeing her was free, meds aren't covered so if I didn't have $1000/year to pay for the 2 serums for her to inject me with, I would still be suffering. Similarly seeing a psychiatrist is free but the meds aren't. Counselling is not covered at all and neither is dental.
A Psychologist I contacted told me it would cost us about $5K (requires many, many, sessions over time) for her to diagnose our kid with gender dysphoria and decide whether she could sign off on surgery. She said when she used to work in a trans health clinic most people just got their Psychiatrist to sign off...but the kid's Psychiatrist doesn't feel comfortable diagnosing that as he focuses more on the medication side than counseling.
And so it's also difficult to find medical professionals who are also educated on and comfortable with LGBTQ+ health. For instance any doctor in Canada can give Testosterone but our kid's family doctor isn't comfortable doing that...Our kid just wants to talk to someone about the pros and cons so that's more wait lists to see who they get to meet first -- a gynecologist or an endocrinologist. The gynecologist we found ourselves by calling many to ensure we first found one is comfortable with trans health especially with youth and then our doctor sent the referral to her about 9 months ago.
Anyway I'm sharing all of this to show that top surgery (at least here) isn't a thing a child can decide and parents approve and then get quickly. We're currently on a waiting list for a University hospital's trans program who has all the professionals needed who have the required (by the government) LGBT health training to diagnose/sign off. Our health care is so fragmented that we're hopeful having a multidisciplinary approach where medical professionals will actually talk to each other will be more helpful and also put an end to multiple waiting lists.
Also they use binders that can hurt them with continuous use. The mental health aspect can't be ignored either. I'm fine with the year of live in experience and therapy but after that they should be allowed to go forward with Drs recommendation. The states religious dictators should not have a say.
I don't think the govt/law should stand in front of it either as I said, and they don't do that for breast reductions which at the end of the day are a very similar deal. But point is doctors aren't going to recommend it unless they think it's truly necessary and I could imagine doctors feeling hard pressed to justify it vs waiting. While something like preventing access to hormone blockers has very real and irreversible consequences, waiting for a cosmetic mastectomy does not.
Mental health issues are a lot harder to qualify and usually aren't the domain of someone who will be assessing the need for surgery.
There could also potentially be medical complications that arise from removing someone's breasts while they are still growing/still going through puberty but that I'm not sure of (and if we are talking about breast removal that's obviously someone who is undergoing female puberty).