I'm Catholic myself, so this is a very nice and welcoming change to see within my church. I've been pushing for this for awhile so this is genuinely fantastic to see. Hope they go even further...
I'm Catholic myself, so this is a very nice and welcoming change to see within my church. I've been pushing for this for awhile so this is genuinely fantastic to see. Hope they go even further with it, and also crack harshly down on the conservative priests who will inevitably lose their cool over this.
Edit: I should also mention: this very clearly isn't enough, it makes the obviously horrid exception for if "it causes scandal." Frankly, there should be no scandal from respecting and loving God's creation except one that is malicious and at no fault of the trans person in question. Shame.
I'm really curious if we're going to see another schism in the church with the American Catholics electing their own pope. There's plenty of historical precedent, and the American bishops'...
I'm really curious if we're going to see another schism in the church with the American Catholics electing their own pope. There's plenty of historical precedent, and the American bishops' rhetoric has become increasingly cataclysmic. Especially since Pope Francis removed a Bishop in Texas.
Yeah, that's not been my experience with American Catholics either... and I say that as a queer ex-Catholic that fucking despises the church (although the new Pope has given me a tiny bit of hope...
Yeah, that's not been my experience with American Catholics either... and I say that as a queer ex-Catholic that fucking despises the church (although the new Pope has given me a tiny bit of hope in the institution).
However, despite me leaving the faith, all of my immediate family, and the majority of my extended family are still practicing Catholics. My Godfather is even good friends with his local parish priest, and has him over for dinner and parties regularly, so I have interacted with him at length on numerous occasions. My nephew was also baptized into the church, and has his Confirmation coming up. And none of my family are hateful people, and neither are any of the people I've met via the churches I've been to over the years. And I have been exposed to quite a few Catholic churches and communities all over North America... here in Canada on both the east and west coast, as well as in Florida, Boston, and even London UK when I lived in there.
So I have no idea where @Gunbudder is getting all that from. Perhaps they live in a region where the Catholics there are a lot more extreme and politicized for whatever reason?
Catholicism has all the faults everyone knows about, but in most places, it doesn't share some of the issues more commonly associated with Evangelicals and, even more aptly, Neopentecostals. For...
Catholicism has all the faults everyone knows about, but in most places, it doesn't share some of the issues more commonly associated with Evangelicals and, even more aptly, Neopentecostals.
For example, Catholicism officially denies creationism.
That said, one of the reasons Catholics are often harmless is that they're not really believers. In much of the world, Catholicism serves as a connection to tradition, rite, and family bonds. Not faith.
Furthermore, Catholicism is a fading power, so it must be lenient. That is why you can easily find highly progressive Priests that go way beyond what the official doctrine allows, with no consequence. Catholics are literally dying out, and they cannot afford to lose anyone.
As far as I know, the only place where Catholicism is showing some growth is Africa. And I wouldn't trust those numbers anyway, I know way too many Catholics in name only to take them seriously....
As far as I know, the only place where Catholicism is showing some growth is Africa. And I wouldn't trust those numbers anyway, I know way too many Catholics in name only to take them seriously. True Catholics, the ones that can support the religion forward, are old and dying. Neopentecostals, on the other hand, are growing slowly but surely.
But over the same period, the world’s overall population also has risen rapidly. As a result, Catholics have made up a remarkably stable share of all people on Earth. In 1910, Catholics comprised about half (48%) of all Christians and 17% of the world’s total population, according to historical estimates from the World Christian Database. A century later, the Pew Research study found, Catholics still comprise about half (50%) of Christians worldwide and 16% of the total global population.
Rapid growth has occurred in sub-Saharan Africa, which today is home to about 171 million Catholics (16%), up from an estimated 1 million (less than 1%) in 1910. There also has been rapid growth in the vast Asia-Pacific region, where 131 million Catholics (12%) now live, up from 14 million (5%) a century ago.
North America’s share of the global Catholic population has increased more slowly, from about 15 million (5%) in 1910 to 89 million (8%) as of 2010.
Though the Middle East and North Africa are the ancient cradle of Christianity, the Middle East-North Africa region is home to less than 1% of Catholics today, about the same as in 1910.
As a percentage of regional population, the largest growth occurred in sub-Saharan Africa, which went from about 1% Catholic in 1910 to 21% Catholic in 2010. The Catholic share of the population in the Asia-Pacific region grew from 1% to 3% during this period. Meanwhile, the Catholic share of North America’s population grew from 16% to 26%
Oh hey, queer ex-Catholics unite. We are legion. I've found that internet Catholics (see the subreddit for example) tend towards very traditional and politically conservative but my IRL...
Oh hey, queer ex-Catholics unite. We are legion.
I've found that internet Catholics (see the subreddit for example) tend towards very traditional and politically conservative but my IRL experiences with American Catholicism have been much like yours though I'm not as close with family for a variety of reasons.
Catholic beliefs don't align well with our current American political parties so they can fall either way. I've met conservative Catholics but I'm pretty sure the aforementioned subreddit is all sure the current Pope is the Antichrist.
Maybe it's an East vs West coast Catholic thing in the US? I only have experience with East coast Catholics in the US, and while I'm sure there were some that were racists/homophobes in private,...
Maybe it's an East vs West coast Catholic thing in the US? I only have experience with East coast Catholics in the US, and while I'm sure there were some that were racists/homophobes in private, none of the ones I encountered ever went around openly spouting racial or homophobic slurs and demonizing Democrats. The majority actually seemed like reasonably tolerant folks, all things considered. Not exactly the most progressive people I've ever met, certainly, and still somewhat conservative when it came to certain social issues (abortion in particular), but not homophobic, racist, hateful, crazy right wingers like you describe.
Reminds me of an 'incident' we had in Ireland this time last year that really illustrates the cultural divide. A priest who was from Ireland but had spent most of his long career in America...
Reminds me of an 'incident' we had in Ireland this time last year that really illustrates the cultural divide.
A priest who was from Ireland but had spent most of his long career in America (Florida I think) came home for a while and filled in for a local priest who was out sick. He went on a fiery rant at sunday mass about gay and trans people, contraception, promiscuity etc.. This was a MASSIVE upset, it was such a scandal that parishioners walked out on him, it made the papers, the bishop had to issue an apology and reprimand him, and the Taoiseach ("prime minister") even publicly denounced it.
Not to imply that this guy was representative of American Catholics, it's just funny how in America this might be taken as "this priest crawled out of some bigoted backwater town" and in Ireland the reaction was "this priest is a literal crazy person".
Where do you live at or are from? Are you by chance from like Minnesota or somewhere up that way? Because this isn't the first time I'm hearing this about Catholics, that most American Catholics...
Where do you live at or are from? Are you by chance from like Minnesota or somewhere up that way? Because this isn't the first time I'm hearing this about Catholics, that most American Catholics are hardcore hateful conservatives, and doesn't mesh at all with Catholics I've met (and I was raised Catholic). And so far, the few times I've heard this mass characterization of Catholics, it's Catholics from the northern Midwest. That's not to say I haven't met Catholics as conservative as that (and they were from Minnesota). But I've never known them to be the majority of Catholics.
When priests ordain they swear to abide some vows (poverty, chastity, obedience). Depending on the order the priest belongs to, they might center on one of them. From my understanding Franciscans...
When priests ordain they swear to abide some vows (poverty, chastity, obedience). Depending on the order the priest belongs to, they might center on one of them. From my understanding Franciscans focus on the vow of poverty, while Jesuits on the vow of obedience. This mean they don't get to decide where to live or work. They are told by a superior and that's it.
By the way, I have met Jesuit priests who don't pay much attention to the poverty vow.
Jesuit is a religious order, not something a "regular" person is a part of. They have priests and religious brothers(I don't think they have lay brothers but I didn't go look.). The concept of...
Jesuit is a religious order, not something a "regular" person is a part of. They have priests and religious brothers(I don't think they have lay brothers but I didn't go look.). The concept of monks might be familiar (though they're not technically monks) if that helps.
Jesuits, Franciscans, Dominicans, Benedictines are all specific Roman Catholic religious orders. General members of Catholicism may attend a school or church or be in a hospital run by or supported by a particular order but they aren't members of the order. So there aren't "Jesuit believers". Hope that makes sense!
Jesuits make the same vows as other orders plus a specific vow of obedience to the Pope to be sent wherever they're needed. (Other orders may take an extra vow to tend to the sick ) and they tend to be big supporters of education, in asking questions rather than declaring answers, and iirc several were among the bigger names among advocates for liberation theology.
I attended a Jesuit University so I rather have a fondness for Jesuits despite no longer being Catholic.
I just read your linked article and explored this topic further. I also found this NYTimes article. Regarding: the article So, it appears Bishop Strickland is critical of Pope Francis, believing...
I just read your linked article and explored this topic further. I also found this NYTimes article.
Regarding: the article
So, it appears Bishop Strickland is critical of Pope Francis, believing the (Roman Catholic) Church is not conservative enough. However, regardless of his opinion, as a bishop, he can't just accuse the Pope of "undermining the deposit of faith". To do so, he needs solid theoretical backing and alignment from similar-thinking bishops. Otherwise, he's undermining the authority of the Pope.
The bishop also:
"questioned whether Vatican officials even qualified as Catholics" and "warned that the global meeting of bishops and lay people in October, which is key to Francis’ vision of the church, was a vehicle to threaten “basic truths” of Catholic doctrine".
Yeah... I can see why the Pope would take issue with him. It's one thing to be conservative — a 'Traditionalist'. However, as a bishop practising Roman Catholicism, Strickland is still required to respect the hierarchy and acquiesce to higher authority. If you disagree with the fundamental structure of Roman Catholicism to such a degree, how can you still remain Catholic, let alone Traditional Catholic?
”Regrettably, it may be that some will label as schismatics those who disagree with the changes being proposed,” Strickland wrote in a public letter in August. “Instead, those who would propose changes to that which cannot be changed seek to commandeer Christ’s Church, and they are indeed the true schismatics.”
This statement signifies Strickland's potential separation from the Catholic Church. However, the notion that the Catholic Church can be schismatic to itself makes no sense. How can the pope not be Catholic? That's the whole point of Catholicism, right? That there is an unbroken line of popes to the first pope. Strickland is such an egotist. To act as if he is in the superior position and the Catholic Church is insubordinate to him during this split is laughable.
Regarding: the rest of your comment — the potential schism
It is truly bizarre; (supposedly) 'Traditional Catholics' declaring "total war" on the Pope... because the Pope removed a heresiarch who completely diverged from the Church in liturgy and doctrine.
I came across this comment discussing this trend, and it aligns with what I have seen as well (albeit with the schism within the Anglican Diocese in Australia over gay marriage).
You joke but as a Roman Catholic in America, I am seeing this schism unfolding in real time. You have Roman Catholics who still follow the Pope and you have this growing ultra-conservative, GOP-following, listening to people like Trump over the Pope branch of Catholics that I just call "American Catholic" rather than "Roman Catholic."
It's weird coming across these Catholics because they sound and act like Baptists. They are easy to spot among the crowd because they are the Catholics shaking the Bible around and trying to convert people to their Catholicism. At Mass, the women wear the head scarves. Growing up, no one except the Nonnas who were fresh off the boat wore scarves. Now you have young girls wearing scarves for modesty reasons. What? How? Why? When did this become a thing here in the US? I am also seeing a growing, "Young Earth" movement from them. We're Catholics! We haven't done that garbage in centuries. Why is this American Catholic movement going back?
I swear, in another generation or two, they will completely break off from The Vatican and just become a complete political-religious branch of Catholicism. And fine by me. Because you are not making me wear a head scarf and Man did not ride on the backs of dinosaurs.
Could this trend be a consequence of declining number of followers? Catholicism was once followed by a more diverse cross-section of society. As society grows increasingly non-religious, would the people who continue to practice self-select themselves to be more ardent?
It's hard to point to any clear cut causes, but it is clearly a reactionary movement. An interesting question is why are Americans Catholics reacting so much stronger to cultural changes compare...
It's hard to point to any clear cut causes, but it is clearly a reactionary movement. An interesting question is why are Americans Catholics reacting so much stronger to cultural changes compare to Catholics in other countries? Italy elected a very right-wing government that loves to preach Catholic values, but that's worlds apart from the borderline blasphemy of American bishops.
It seems to me to principally be influence from US evangelical/fundamentalist Protestants (which is the faith I grew up in). They're a huge cultural and political force, especially in Texas and...
An interesting question is why are Americans Catholics reacting so much stronger to cultural changes compare to Catholics in other countries?
It seems to me to principally be influence from US evangelical/fundamentalist Protestants (which is the faith I grew up in). They're a huge cultural and political force, especially in Texas and the Midwest, and they're American Catholics' principle allies on issues like abortion and contraception. Of course, we grew up believing Catholics aren't real Christians but to be fair I suppose vice-versa is likely true.
That said, most Catholics I knew growing up were far more liberal than my family and church was growing up. Believed in evolution, were a lot more on-the-fence about gay people. And I know for a fact that the way I grew up isn't even close to the most extreme fundamentalist Protestant sects in the US.
Fwiw Catholics are taught that other Christians are misguided (in a literal sense) but are still Christian. Any individual school/church might have a person that taught something odd, but...
Fwiw Catholics are taught that other Christians are misguided (in a literal sense) but are still Christian. Any individual school/church might have a person that taught something odd, but canonically the only reason non-Catholic Christians can't have communion is essentially they don't believe it's really* Jesus**.
*Transubstantiation
** There are other reasons technically but it was weird when people said I wasn't Christian growing up. ***
*** Weirder since I'm not now but I went to sixteen years of Catholic school and deep dive into religion as a young adult before ending up an unwilling agnostic.
lol they taught us about transubstantiation when we learned about the reformation in school (private fundie Christian school ofc) but no one ever told me non-Catholics aren't supposed to take...
lol they taught us about transubstantiation when we learned about the reformation in school (private fundie Christian school ofc) but no one ever told me non-Catholics aren't supposed to take communion at Catholic churches until after I'd already done it. I def took it at a couple weddings/funerals without knowing I wasn't supposed to! But ig they're not gonna question you about that in the moment.
To be fair to Catholics, my church also believed most mainline Protestants weren't real Christians either. There was a lot of focus on real vs "nominal" Christians in that environment.
Well if it was a non-Catholic school, there's no policy from most non-Catholic Christian church standards to not have communion. It's a Catholic side policy. I think Catholics allow Eastern...
Well if it was a non-Catholic school, there's no policy from most non-Catholic Christian church standards to not have communion. It's a Catholic side policy. I think Catholics allow Eastern Orthodox churches to have communion or for Catholics to have communion there but the Eastern Orthodox may not be ok in return.
Ah no I mean that I'd go to Catholic weddings/funerals (I was in a children's choir) and take the offered communion because no one had ever taught me about that Catholic side policy.
Ah no I mean that I'd go to Catholic weddings/funerals (I was in a children's choir) and take the offered communion because no one had ever taught me about that Catholic side policy.
Polish catholic church is also on the course for schizm, it's been mostly an arm of outgoing government and we'll see if they radicalize even more now. The church has been ignoring Vatican and...
Polish catholic church is also on the course for schizm, it's been mostly an arm of outgoing government and we'll see if they radicalize even more now. The church has been ignoring Vatican and won't openly defy it but they've been in a convenient positions where supposedly catholic politicians could openly criticize the pope.
I can imagine there are enough catholic communities worldwide to band together so that it doesn't look entirely silly. Having multiple popes is a long standing tradition, no reason we can't have it now.
I'm Catholic myself, so this is a very nice and welcoming change to see within my church. I've been pushing for this for awhile so this is genuinely fantastic to see. Hope they go even further with it, and also crack harshly down on the conservative priests who will inevitably lose their cool over this.
Edit: I should also mention: this very clearly isn't enough, it makes the obviously horrid exception for if "it causes scandal." Frankly, there should be no scandal from respecting and loving God's creation except one that is malicious and at no fault of the trans person in question. Shame.
I'm really curious if we're going to see another schism in the church with the American Catholics electing their own pope. There's plenty of historical precedent, and the American bishops' rhetoric has become increasingly cataclysmic. Especially since Pope Francis removed a Bishop in Texas.
You’re painting Roman Catholics in America as a whole with some staggeringly broad strokes here that are neither fair nor accurate in my experience.
Yeah, that's not been my experience with American Catholics either... and I say that as a queer ex-Catholic that fucking despises the church (although the new Pope has given me a tiny bit of hope in the institution).
However, despite me leaving the faith, all of my immediate family, and the majority of my extended family are still practicing Catholics. My Godfather is even good friends with his local parish priest, and has him over for dinner and parties regularly, so I have interacted with him at length on numerous occasions. My nephew was also baptized into the church, and has his Confirmation coming up. And none of my family are hateful people, and neither are any of the people I've met via the churches I've been to over the years. And I have been exposed to quite a few Catholic churches and communities all over North America... here in Canada on both the east and west coast, as well as in Florida, Boston, and even London UK when I lived in there.
So I have no idea where @Gunbudder is getting all that from. Perhaps they live in a region where the Catholics there are a lot more extreme and politicized for whatever reason?
Catholicism has all the faults everyone knows about, but in most places, it doesn't share some of the issues more commonly associated with Evangelicals and, even more aptly, Neopentecostals.
For example, Catholicism officially denies creationism.
That said, one of the reasons Catholics are often harmless is that they're not really believers. In much of the world, Catholicism serves as a connection to tradition, rite, and family bonds. Not faith.
Furthermore, Catholicism is a fading power, so it must be lenient. That is why you can easily find highly progressive Priests that go way beyond what the official doctrine allows, with no consequence. Catholics are literally dying out, and they cannot afford to lose anyone.
In western Europe and america. It's growing everywhere else. Raw numbers are going up.
As far as I know, the only place where Catholicism is showing some growth is Africa. And I wouldn't trust those numbers anyway, I know way too many Catholics in name only to take them seriously. True Catholics, the ones that can support the religion forward, are old and dying. Neopentecostals, on the other hand, are growing slowly but surely.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/02/13/the-global-catholic-population/
Oh hey, queer ex-Catholics unite. We are legion.
I've found that internet Catholics (see the subreddit for example) tend towards very traditional and politically conservative but my IRL experiences with American Catholicism have been much like yours though I'm not as close with family for a variety of reasons.
Catholic beliefs don't align well with our current American political parties so they can fall either way. I've met conservative Catholics but I'm pretty sure the aforementioned subreddit is all sure the current Pope is the Antichrist.
Maybe it's an East vs West coast Catholic thing in the US? I only have experience with East coast Catholics in the US, and while I'm sure there were some that were racists/homophobes in private, none of the ones I encountered ever went around openly spouting racial or homophobic slurs and demonizing Democrats. The majority actually seemed like reasonably tolerant folks, all things considered. Not exactly the most progressive people I've ever met, certainly, and still somewhat conservative when it came to certain social issues (abortion in particular), but not homophobic, racist, hateful, crazy right wingers like you describe.
I heard them say they were describing only a particular flavor of Catholics, those outside the jesuit tradition.
That's all lay (non-ordained) Catholics though and all sisters/nuns and most priests/brothers/monks.
Reminds me of an 'incident' we had in Ireland this time last year that really illustrates the cultural divide.
A priest who was from Ireland but had spent most of his long career in America (Florida I think) came home for a while and filled in for a local priest who was out sick. He went on a fiery rant at sunday mass about gay and trans people, contraception, promiscuity etc.. This was a MASSIVE upset, it was such a scandal that parishioners walked out on him, it made the papers, the bishop had to issue an apology and reprimand him, and the Taoiseach ("prime minister") even publicly denounced it.
Not to imply that this guy was representative of American Catholics, it's just funny how in America this might be taken as "this priest crawled out of some bigoted backwater town" and in Ireland the reaction was "this priest is a literal crazy person".
Where do you live at or are from? Are you by chance from like Minnesota or somewhere up that way? Because this isn't the first time I'm hearing this about Catholics, that most American Catholics are hardcore hateful conservatives, and doesn't mesh at all with Catholics I've met (and I was raised Catholic). And so far, the few times I've heard this mass characterization of Catholics, it's Catholics from the northern Midwest. That's not to say I haven't met Catholics as conservative as that (and they were from Minnesota). But I've never known them to be the majority of Catholics.
Most Jesuits can't live wherever they want? I've never heard anything about this, can you tell me more?
When priests ordain they swear to abide some vows (poverty, chastity, obedience). Depending on the order the priest belongs to, they might center on one of them. From my understanding Franciscans focus on the vow of poverty, while Jesuits on the vow of obedience. This mean they don't get to decide where to live or work. They are told by a superior and that's it.
By the way, I have met Jesuit priests who don't pay much attention to the poverty vow.
Oh, so it only applies to the priests? It's not just like, any Jesuit believer has to ask permission if they want to move?
Jesuit is a religious order, not something a "regular" person is a part of. They have priests and religious brothers(I don't think they have lay brothers but I didn't go look.). The concept of monks might be familiar (though they're not technically monks) if that helps.
Jesuits, Franciscans, Dominicans, Benedictines are all specific Roman Catholic religious orders. General members of Catholicism may attend a school or church or be in a hospital run by or supported by a particular order but they aren't members of the order. So there aren't "Jesuit believers". Hope that makes sense!
Jesuits make the same vows as other orders plus a specific vow of obedience to the Pope to be sent wherever they're needed. (Other orders may take an extra vow to tend to the sick ) and they tend to be big supporters of education, in asking questions rather than declaring answers, and iirc several were among the bigger names among advocates for liberation theology.
I attended a Jesuit University so I rather have a fondness for Jesuits despite no longer being Catholic.
Laypeople can't really be full members of these orders, even though there are usually lower forms of affiliation. A layperson can do as they please.
I just read your linked article and explored this topic further. I also found this NYTimes article.
Regarding: the article
So, it appears Bishop Strickland is critical of Pope Francis, believing the (Roman Catholic) Church is not conservative enough. However, regardless of his opinion, as a bishop, he can't just accuse the Pope of "undermining the deposit of faith". To do so, he needs solid theoretical backing and alignment from similar-thinking bishops. Otherwise, he's undermining the authority of the Pope.
The bishop also:
Yeah... I can see why the Pope would take issue with him. It's one thing to be conservative — a 'Traditionalist'. However, as a bishop practising Roman Catholicism, Strickland is still required to respect the hierarchy and acquiesce to higher authority. If you disagree with the fundamental structure of Roman Catholicism to such a degree, how can you still remain Catholic, let alone Traditional Catholic?
This statement signifies Strickland's potential separation from the Catholic Church. However, the notion that the Catholic Church can be schismatic to itself makes no sense. How can the pope not be Catholic? That's the whole point of Catholicism, right? That there is an unbroken line of popes to the first pope. Strickland is such an egotist. To act as if he is in the superior position and the Catholic Church is insubordinate to him during this split is laughable.
Regarding: the rest of your comment — the potential schism
It is truly bizarre; (supposedly) 'Traditional Catholics' declaring "total war" on the Pope... because the Pope removed a heresiarch who completely diverged from the Church in liturgy and doctrine.
I came across this comment discussing this trend, and it aligns with what I have seen as well (albeit with the schism within the Anglican Diocese in Australia over gay marriage).
Could this trend be a consequence of declining number of followers? Catholicism was once followed by a more diverse cross-section of society. As society grows increasingly non-religious, would the people who continue to practice self-select themselves to be more ardent?
It's hard to point to any clear cut causes, but it is clearly a reactionary movement. An interesting question is why are Americans Catholics reacting so much stronger to cultural changes compare to Catholics in other countries? Italy elected a very right-wing government that loves to preach Catholic values, but that's worlds apart from the borderline blasphemy of American bishops.
It seems to me to principally be influence from US evangelical/fundamentalist Protestants (which is the faith I grew up in). They're a huge cultural and political force, especially in Texas and the Midwest, and they're American Catholics' principle allies on issues like abortion and contraception. Of course, we grew up believing Catholics aren't real Christians but to be fair I suppose vice-versa is likely true.
That said, most Catholics I knew growing up were far more liberal than my family and church was growing up. Believed in evolution, were a lot more on-the-fence about gay people. And I know for a fact that the way I grew up isn't even close to the most extreme fundamentalist Protestant sects in the US.
Fwiw Catholics are taught that other Christians are misguided (in a literal sense) but are still Christian. Any individual school/church might have a person that taught something odd, but canonically the only reason non-Catholic Christians can't have communion is essentially they don't believe it's really* Jesus**.
*Transubstantiation
** There are other reasons technically but it was weird when people said I wasn't Christian growing up. ***
*** Weirder since I'm not now but I went to sixteen years of Catholic school and deep dive into religion as a young adult before ending up an unwilling agnostic.
lol they taught us about transubstantiation when we learned about the reformation in school (private fundie Christian school ofc) but no one ever told me non-Catholics aren't supposed to take communion at Catholic churches until after I'd already done it. I def took it at a couple weddings/funerals without knowing I wasn't supposed to! But ig they're not gonna question you about that in the moment.
To be fair to Catholics, my church also believed most mainline Protestants weren't real Christians either. There was a lot of focus on real vs "nominal" Christians in that environment.
Well if it was a non-Catholic school, there's no policy from most non-Catholic Christian church standards to not have communion. It's a Catholic side policy. I think Catholics allow Eastern Orthodox churches to have communion or for Catholics to have communion there but the Eastern Orthodox may not be ok in return.
Ah no I mean that I'd go to Catholic weddings/funerals (I was in a children's choir) and take the offered communion because no one had ever taught me about that Catholic side policy.
Ah yeah. Makes sense tbh
Polish catholic church is also on the course for schizm, it's been mostly an arm of outgoing government and we'll see if they radicalize even more now. The church has been ignoring Vatican and won't openly defy it but they've been in a convenient positions where supposedly catholic politicians could openly criticize the pope.
I can imagine there are enough catholic communities worldwide to band together so that it doesn't look entirely silly. Having multiple popes is a long standing tradition, no reason we can't have it now.