Frederico's last comment is really impactful. It drives home the fact that many people who are transphobic just don't care about the person or their feelings. It's like they see them as less than...
“They are so focused on biology and bodies, and it’s often forgotten that there are people inhabiting those bodies,” he said.
Frederico's last comment is really impactful. It drives home the fact that many people who are transphobic just don't care about the person or their feelings. It's like they see them as less than human and are perfectly okay with it.
On an unrelated note, 'Federico Barbarossa' is a great name. If you are also in the process of transitioning, and are choosing a new name, I implore you to consider taking the name of a former...
More than 100 transgender men have entered the Miss Italy pageant this week, according to an activist leading a protest against recent comments by the pageant’s organizer, who said trans women wouldn’t be allowed to compete.
The comments came after another European pageant, Miss Netherlands, crowned its first transgender winner, Rikkie Valerie Kollé, this month. About a week later, Patrizia Mirigliani, the official organizer of Miss Italy, told an Italian radio station that Miss Italy wouldn’t allow trans women to compete.
Trans activist Federico Barbarossa, who lives in Bari, a town in southern Italy, said that he became angry when he saw Mirigliani’s comments but that he was “also kind of amused by it, because I was like, ‘Yeah, well, I was assigned female at birth, but they would reject me because I look like a boy, and they would consider me as a boy,’” he said in an interview with NBC News.
On an unrelated note, 'Federico Barbarossa' is a great name. If you are also in the process of transitioning, and are choosing a new name, I implore you to consider taking the name of a former Holy Roman Emperor.
The article said that he entered the competition using his dead name, and the email shows that the name entered was 'Federica Barbarossa'. Now, I don't know if Barbarossa was his family name at...
On an unrelated note, 'Federico Barbarossa' is a great name. If you are also in the process of transitioning, and are choosing a new name, I implore you to consider taking the name of a former Holy Roman Emperor.
The article said that he entered the competition using his dead name, and the email shows that the name entered was 'Federica Barbarossa'. Now, I don't know if Barbarossa was his family name at birth or if that was chosen too, but it's quite possible he was just set up for that success from day 1!
Credit to all of them for standing up. Trans men are often ignored in the "Anti Drag"/"TERF"/Transphobic arguments (IMO) because it's hard to agree that trans men should be put in women's...
Credit to all of them for standing up. Trans men are often ignored in the "Anti Drag"/"TERF"/Transphobic arguments (IMO) because it's hard to agree that trans men should be put in women's pageants, bathrooms, etc. So they're omitted or framed as "lesbian tomboys" while ignoring that they do not look like nor are women.
Something Something the children. It's exhausting nonetheless.
As a tomboy, I kinda object trans men being seen as tomboys cause just cause I like more guy like things does not mean I feel like I'm a guy. Some tv show (I think it was DeGrassi) 10 years or...
As a tomboy, I kinda object trans men being seen as tomboys cause just cause I like more guy like things does not mean I feel like I'm a guy. Some tv show (I think it was DeGrassi) 10 years or back tried to do a job of explaining trans (and I applaud them for trying) but they did a miserable job cause their trans man explained that she liked guy things. At which point I, who really didn't understand trans then, prickled cause I thought they were saying that trans was the new way to say tomboy and that apparently now I was supposed to be considered a woman who wanted to be a guy just cause I liked guy things. To be fair, I only think I'm starting to understand it more now but on the other hand I have always felt that I don't care if I understand it or not, if it's not hurting anyone than who cares what some one wants to be (and I don't see wanting to be the opposite gender of what you are born as something that is anyone's business except the person who wants to be the opposite gender).
I'm a trans guy and that's especially annoying because being trans is an identity, not appearance, expression, hobbies, or gender roles. There are femboy trans men and tomboy trans women, also....
I'm a trans guy and that's especially annoying because being trans is an identity, not appearance, expression, hobbies, or gender roles. There are femboy trans men and tomboy trans women, also.
I'm annoyed because I see everyone do this, including trans people. A man wearing a dress isn't secretly a trans woman. A tomboy isn't secretly a trans man. Let's believe people when they tell you who they are.
I do want to reiterate that I wasn't intending to state that lumping trans men in with masc women or tomboys was an appropriate thing to do. Just that it's the way y'all get invalidated by the...
I do want to reiterate that I wasn't intending to state that lumping trans men in with masc women or tomboys was an appropriate thing to do. Just that it's the way y'all get invalidated by the 'phobes.
People just need to let gender be the squishy thing it is and respect wherever it lands for people.
Oh, absolutely! (I didnt think you were trying to do that at all either) It's just something I've been annoyed with recently because it seems like an environment has been cultivated where a lot of...
Oh, absolutely! (I didnt think you were trying to do that at all either)
It's just something I've been annoyed with recently because it seems like an environment has been cultivated where a lot of people are just trying to clock everyone else. It's very exhausting and weighs on the brain.
I'd like to be clear that I don't agree with trans men being lumped in as "tomboys" unless they identify that way themselves (gender's squishy and I'm not here to police it). It is a thing that...
I'd like to be clear that I don't agree with trans men being lumped in as "tomboys" unless they identify that way themselves (gender's squishy and I'm not here to police it). It is a thing that transphobes say to invalidate trans men's identities, along with calling them "confused lesbians." My point is that the transphobic argument is that trans women should be in men's spaces, but by that logic, trans men should be in women's spaces. So the transphobes prefer not to deal with trans men in their conversations. Either way, transphobes suck.
I grew up getting called a tomboy too, turns out I'm just really not attached to my gender and thus non-binary (and demigender) but still mostly "non-binary woman" I guess? "She" sticks around on my pronoun list at least.
While quite funny on face value, the official response to this will be interesting to see. The way I see it, the pageant might simply change the rules to restrict entry to individuals born female...
While quite funny on face value, the official response to this will be interesting to see.
The way I see it, the pageant might simply change the rules to restrict entry to individuals born female who present in traditionally feminine ways.
Oddly, I think that would be consistent with the mentality behind most pageants. I would hazard a guess that most winners of nearly all "Miss" Anything pageants present traditionally feminine and win based on how closely the entrants match those standards.
Do pageants bring anything positive to society? Do we really need to have propped up people who are often seen as conforming to the ideal? My vote is we get rid of pageants all together.
Reward people publicly who contribute something notable to society regardless of gender. That's my 2 cents at least.
While I mostly agree, and I also find them worthless, it's not like people are being forced into it. If someone wants to enter a pageant and be judged wholly or partially on their looks, why not...
While I mostly agree, and I also find them worthless, it's not like people are being forced into it. If someone wants to enter a pageant and be judged wholly or partially on their looks, why not let them? In some ways, they're similar to a costume/cosplay competition. And most people don't seem to have a problem with those.
As such, the one I'd pick to eliminate is child beauty pageants. Because those kids don't often have a choice.
I agree with you they don't add much but I also agree to the other comment to you that excepting child beauty pageants if some one wants to be judged on their looks, let them. But honestly I'd...
I agree with you they don't add much but I also agree to the other comment to you that excepting child beauty pageants if some one wants to be judged on their looks, let them.
But honestly I'd object to a pageant changing rules to make it so you had to be born female and present female cause first of all there is no harm in allowing some one who feels more woman and wants to be a woman from participating and being judged on how feminine she looks and then to even then lock out ones who were born woman but don't look woman is just outright saying, "fuck you any trans person, this isn't about wanting it to be about being femininity but we just don't like trans people."
The only thing I kinda waiver on is letting trans women in women sports. I mean I understand it does suck for them cause they want to play as their gender, but they physically born stronger. The best argument I've heard is no one is born physically the same but at the same time I could see an argument that they are given a much more unfair advantage. So, I'm torn. I've argued both ways. My friend pointed out that no one is born equal but my mom pointed out at least a case where the trans women was ranked really low in men's sports but then ranked very high in women's sports so it was obvious she had a much better advantage even being a weaker "man" compared to men. But then my mom tends to only listen to sources like Fox News so I don't know how much cherry picking that example was. But I couldn't bring that up to her cause she'd just get upset and say I do the same thing except only liberal sources <- liberal sources to her are any sources that aren't fox news or similar. Way back when it was popular with conservatives to say Sorros owned anything I brought up as a source was "obviously owned/influenced by George Sorros."
Trans women really don't dominate women's sports and there's no indication of men pretending to be trans to win women's events. I'm pretty sure I know the example your mom is thinking of, Lia...
Trans women really don't dominate women's sports and there's no indication of men pretending to be trans to win women's events.
I'm pretty sure I know the example your mom is thinking of, Lia Thomas?
While on the men's team:
During her freshman year, Thomas recorded a time of eight minutes and 57.55 seconds in the 1,000-yard freestyle that ranked as the sixth-fastest national men's time, and also recorded 500-yard freestyle and 1,650-yard freestyle times that ranked within the national top 100.[5] On the men's swim team in 2018–2019, Thomas finished second in the men's 500, 1,000, and 1,650-yard freestyle at the Ivy League championships as a sophomore in 2019.[5][4][12] During the 2018–2019 season, Thomas recorded the top UPenn men's team times in the 500 free, 1000 free, and 1650 free, but was the sixth best among UPenn men's team members in the 200 free.[13]
While on the womens' team:
In a race during January 2022 at a meet against UPenn's Ivy League rival Yale, Thomas finished in 6th place in the 100m freestyle race, losing to four cisgender women and Iszac Henig, a transgender man, who transitioned without hormone therapy.[23]
And while she won the NCAA championship in the 500 free in March 2022, she's no where near the record time and a cis woman set 18 NCAA records that day, plus Katy Ledecky has over 9 seconds on her 500 free time. She's just a swimmer best at middle distance freestyle. Despite this, she's no longer eligible for the Olympics due to what I think are stupid policy changes. She's challenging this new policy though.
So while trans women can be on the higher end of the athletic bell curve, there's little evidence that they will dominate all or any women's sports. Unless we ban anyone that has natural genetic advantages, which is basically every elite athlete. Most of the world seems to care very little about women's sports when there's not a woman or girl they think is trans involved.
That example sounds about right (it was a swimmer anyways that she was ranting about). And she wasn't worried about a man pretending to be a women to get advantage, she was just thinking it was...
That example sounds about right (it was a swimmer anyways that she was ranting about). And she wasn't worried about a man pretending to be a women to get advantage, she was just thinking it was unfair cause they were born already much stronger than a woman and transitioning didn't change that.
Ah, I didn't know much about hte case when she was arguing it with me and as I said I couldn't just point out to mom I didn't trust her sources cause she totally believes her sources are...
Ah, I didn't know much about hte case when she was arguing it with me and as I said I couldn't just point out to mom I didn't trust her sources cause she totally believes her sources are completely unbiased and it is any other sources that are biased. Hell, if I tried to point this out to her with any other sources other than Fox News (or similar) she'd probably just tell me that my sources were unreliable/biased (I think she's over claiming Sorros owned now so I guess Fox is no longer doing that but I've long ago stopped trying to find sources to show her I'm not pulling things out of my ass cause she just always discounted them... which makes it really hard to argue with her).
And the one time I was able to even point out Fox News even said so, she trotted out, "all media is biased!" (she didn't believe Trump said something, I pointed out even Fox reported it).
(I should clarify this is my stepmom. She mostly raised me so I see her as much my mom as my mom but my mom is die hard democrat and not so brainwashed then my stepmom and dad and would not like me to lead people to believe she is the same as my stepmom). Oh, and my stepmom used to not be like this when I grew up (my dad has as far back as I remember been a rush limbaugh die hard republican though) but when Fox News came around she got brainwashed (dad had it on all the time and she was not one who cared so much about politics before then). Fuck Fox News (also fuck Rush Limbaugh who I would say paved the way for Fox News).
I'd also like to point out that literally nobody actually cares about biological advantages, even if they think they do. If they did, everybody would have been calling for Michael Phelps and his...
I'd also like to point out that literally nobody actually cares about biological advantages, even if they think they do. If they did, everybody would have been calling for Michael Phelps and his webbed feet to be banned from every swimming competition out there instead of releasing article after article praising him for basically being half fish.
The whole "unfair biological advantage" thing is a complete distraction and engaging directly with that instead of the source of the ideas is why you have droves of liberals essentially saying that we can have a little bit of segregation as a treat (and that little bit of segregation obviously would never grow into something even worse now that theyve 'legitimized' transphobes' arguments)
The sad thing is I tried to argue with her if she really cared about fairness then we shouldn't differentiate between genders but more just on ability. She still wasn't going for it. Some how she...
The sad thing is I tried to argue with her if she really cared about fairness then we shouldn't differentiate between genders but more just on ability. She still wasn't going for it. Some how she agreed that some women are better than other women and life isn't fair that way but some how it was bad to be unfair to women to let a trans woman (or is trans man, sorry, I'm not actually super clear on which is which) on the team. She just could not see my point on it (She kept claiming she understood).
I honestly though don't know if she's transphobic or just doing her usual spouting whatever Fox News tells her to care about (I don't think she'd care so much if Fox News wasn't telling her to care). While I think she is prejudiced against some (and sadly I don't think she wants to be but she'll never acknowledge some biases she has so she'll never get better), lgbt+ I don't think is some hill she'd care much about if Fox News didn't tell her differently (She's never had a problem with gay and lesbian at least... and I'm betting she never even knew about trans people until Fox News made it an issue).
On trans women in sports, I’d previously commented on a different thread that we would likely see a “transition prior to puberty” policy, i.e., for high school and collegiate athletics, trans...
On trans women in sports, I’d previously commented on a different thread that we would likely see a “transition prior to puberty” policy, i.e., for high school and collegiate athletics, trans woman (potentially all trans folks to avoid equal protection violations) would need to be on blockers and/or hormones prior to the start of puberty in order to play, to minimize any sort of muscle/bone imbalances. This would be controversial, but ultimately any “solution” would be.
If a person says to me "The Jews control Hollywood" I would not say "gee, there sure are a lot of Jews in Hollywood, maybe we need to implement a quota system". I should instead say "Fuck off...
Exemplary
If a person says to me "The Jews control Hollywood" I would not say "gee, there sure are a lot of Jews in Hollywood, maybe we need to implement a quota system". I should instead say "Fuck off Nazi", and then punch[1] them as hard as I can.
I wish people would stop posting far right anti trans talking points on tildes, and especially into lgbt.
Your assumption is that the anti-trans argument is coherent and can be addressed with logic. That's false. The only coherent part is "I hope this will make life harder, even impossible, for trans people". This is why the only valid response is to say "Fuck off", and then punch them. They are pushing an oppressive, violent, hateful ideology and they need to be met with forceful resistance. There is a long history of such action in tackling fascists.
You're going to say "But no no, I don't listen to the far right, I only listen to the people with reasonable objections". In the UK there have been environmental groups, animal rights groups, pro-NHS groups, that were set up by extremist right wing organisations. They appear to be organisations with reasonable concerns. They also recruit people, sometimes by radicalising them, into more obviously far right groups. This is how they work. If someone says "I hate trans people and I want them to stop existing" most reasonable people recognise this as extremist hate. But when the same person says "I have reasonable concerns about child health", (or women's sports, or whatever) people don't take the time to check whether that person signed the Women's Declaration International (which calls to "eliminate the practice of transgenderism").
And it's the same for anti-trans talking points. Helen Joyce wrote the anti-trans book "Trans - when ideology meets reality". In that book she claims that George Sorros donated $100 million in 2010 to the Human Rights Campaign, an American LGBTQ rights group. The amount he actually donated to HRC was about $10,000 (ten thousand). The $100m went to Human Rights Watch - an NGO that monitors human rights. This may look like a simple error, but she previously credited Jenifer Bilek and Bilek made the same claim.
The gender critical movement is inherently antisemitic and inherently far right, and it's frustrating to see people on tildes fall for obvious bullshit. And it is obvious bullshit, because the argument doesn't make any sense: they simultaneously say that transition destroys the body and leaves people severely weakened (destroys bone density!), while also saying transition confers innate biological advantage (testosterone!). Reading what trans people say has exposed me to counter arguments to this, and those arguments are usually comprehensively detailed and sourced to credible research, with good caveating about the state of the science.
The real feminist argument about women in sports is that we need to correct the disparity in funding, and recognise the historic oppression that hampered women's involvement. For example
After the "first golden age" of women's football occurred in the United Kingdom in the 1920s, with one match attracting over 50,000 spectators,[4] The Football Association instituted a ban from 1921 to 1970 in England that disallowed women's football on the grounds used by its member clubs.[5] In many other nations, female footballers faced similarly hostile treatment and bans by male-dominated organisations.[6]
This 50 year ban (longer for schools) has had, and continues to have, much more impact on female sports than any trans athlete.
I want to clarify that I’m not supportive of these bans/restrictions. I was just trying to say what you may end up seeing implemented in some areas. I’ve never heard the point that anti-trans...
I want to clarify that I’m not supportive of these bans/restrictions. I was just trying to say what you may end up seeing implemented in some areas.
I’ve never heard the point that anti-trans arguments are antisemitic, do you have more info about that?
The arguments, besides being made by many of the same people, include targeting Jewish doctors and Jewish hospitals and tying trans-affirming care into a Jewish conspiracy to corrupt and sterilize...
The arguments, besides being made by many of the same people, include targeting Jewish doctors and Jewish hospitals and tying trans-affirming care into a Jewish conspiracy to corrupt and sterilize children.
You also have everyone's least favorite children's fantasy author now making Holocaust denial comments in service to her anti-trans beliefs. The two hate movements deal in the same dog whistles and tropes too. https://www.critfacts.com/transcripts/gender-critical-antisemitism
I talked about this elsewhere in this thread but all that does is legitimize and legalize transphobes arguments, especially since they dont actually care about biological advantages or sports,...
I talked about this elsewhere in this thread but all that does is legitimize and legalize transphobes arguments, especially since they dont actually care about biological advantages or sports, they just want trans people dead or in hiding.
Frederico's last comment is really impactful. It drives home the fact that many people who are transphobic just don't care about the person or their feelings. It's like they see them as less than human and are perfectly okay with it.
The actions of bullies need to come back around to hurt them. That's the best way to get them to stop - simple self-interest.
On an unrelated note, 'Federico Barbarossa' is a great name. If you are also in the process of transitioning, and are choosing a new name, I implore you to consider taking the name of a former Holy Roman Emperor.
The article said that he entered the competition using his dead name, and the email shows that the name entered was 'Federica Barbarossa'. Now, I don't know if Barbarossa was his family name at birth or if that was chosen too, but it's quite possible he was just set up for that success from day 1!
Credit to all of them for standing up. Trans men are often ignored in the "Anti Drag"/"TERF"/Transphobic arguments (IMO) because it's hard to agree that trans men should be put in women's pageants, bathrooms, etc. So they're omitted or framed as "lesbian tomboys" while ignoring that they do not look like nor are women.
Something Something the children. It's exhausting nonetheless.
As a tomboy, I kinda object trans men being seen as tomboys cause just cause I like more guy like things does not mean I feel like I'm a guy. Some tv show (I think it was DeGrassi) 10 years or back tried to do a job of explaining trans (and I applaud them for trying) but they did a miserable job cause their trans man explained that she liked guy things. At which point I, who really didn't understand trans then, prickled cause I thought they were saying that trans was the new way to say tomboy and that apparently now I was supposed to be considered a woman who wanted to be a guy just cause I liked guy things. To be fair, I only think I'm starting to understand it more now but on the other hand I have always felt that I don't care if I understand it or not, if it's not hurting anyone than who cares what some one wants to be (and I don't see wanting to be the opposite gender of what you are born as something that is anyone's business except the person who wants to be the opposite gender).
I'm a trans guy and that's especially annoying because being trans is an identity, not appearance, expression, hobbies, or gender roles. There are femboy trans men and tomboy trans women, also.
I'm annoyed because I see everyone do this, including trans people. A man wearing a dress isn't secretly a trans woman. A tomboy isn't secretly a trans man. Let's believe people when they tell you who they are.
I do want to reiterate that I wasn't intending to state that lumping trans men in with masc women or tomboys was an appropriate thing to do. Just that it's the way y'all get invalidated by the 'phobes.
People just need to let gender be the squishy thing it is and respect wherever it lands for people.
Oh, absolutely! (I didnt think you were trying to do that at all either)
It's just something I've been annoyed with recently because it seems like an environment has been cultivated where a lot of people are just trying to clock everyone else. It's very exhausting and weighs on the brain.
I'd like to be clear that I don't agree with trans men being lumped in as "tomboys" unless they identify that way themselves (gender's squishy and I'm not here to police it). It is a thing that transphobes say to invalidate trans men's identities, along with calling them "confused lesbians." My point is that the transphobic argument is that trans women should be in men's spaces, but by that logic, trans men should be in women's spaces. So the transphobes prefer not to deal with trans men in their conversations. Either way, transphobes suck.
I grew up getting called a tomboy too, turns out I'm just really not attached to my gender and thus non-binary (and demigender) but still mostly "non-binary woman" I guess? "She" sticks around on my pronoun list at least.
Don’t you understand? Traditional gender roles are the fabric that is holding society together!
While quite funny on face value, the official response to this will be interesting to see.
The way I see it, the pageant might simply change the rules to restrict entry to individuals born female who present in traditionally feminine ways.
Oddly, I think that would be consistent with the mentality behind most pageants. I would hazard a guess that most winners of nearly all "Miss" Anything pageants present traditionally feminine and win based on how closely the entrants match those standards.
Do pageants bring anything positive to society? Do we really need to have propped up people who are often seen as conforming to the ideal? My vote is we get rid of pageants all together.
Reward people publicly who contribute something notable to society regardless of gender. That's my 2 cents at least.
While I mostly agree, and I also find them worthless, it's not like people are being forced into it. If someone wants to enter a pageant and be judged wholly or partially on their looks, why not let them? In some ways, they're similar to a costume/cosplay competition. And most people don't seem to have a problem with those.
As such, the one I'd pick to eliminate is child beauty pageants. Because those kids don't often have a choice.
I agree with you they don't add much but I also agree to the other comment to you that excepting child beauty pageants if some one wants to be judged on their looks, let them.
But honestly I'd object to a pageant changing rules to make it so you had to be born female and present female cause first of all there is no harm in allowing some one who feels more woman and wants to be a woman from participating and being judged on how feminine she looks and then to even then lock out ones who were born woman but don't look woman is just outright saying, "fuck you any trans person, this isn't about wanting it to be about being femininity but we just don't like trans people."
The only thing I kinda waiver on is letting trans women in women sports. I mean I understand it does suck for them cause they want to play as their gender, but they physically born stronger. The best argument I've heard is no one is born physically the same but at the same time I could see an argument that they are given a much more unfair advantage. So, I'm torn. I've argued both ways. My friend pointed out that no one is born equal but my mom pointed out at least a case where the trans women was ranked really low in men's sports but then ranked very high in women's sports so it was obvious she had a much better advantage even being a weaker "man" compared to men. But then my mom tends to only listen to sources like Fox News so I don't know how much cherry picking that example was. But I couldn't bring that up to her cause she'd just get upset and say I do the same thing except only liberal sources <- liberal sources to her are any sources that aren't fox news or similar. Way back when it was popular with conservatives to say Sorros owned anything I brought up as a source was "obviously owned/influenced by George Sorros."
Trans women really don't dominate women's sports and there's no indication of men pretending to be trans to win women's events.
I'm pretty sure I know the example your mom is thinking of, Lia Thomas?
While on the men's team:
While on the womens' team:
And while she won the NCAA championship in the 500 free in March 2022, she's no where near the record time and a cis woman set 18 NCAA records that day, plus Katy Ledecky has over 9 seconds on her 500 free time. She's just a swimmer best at middle distance freestyle. Despite this, she's no longer eligible for the Olympics due to what I think are stupid policy changes. She's challenging this new policy though.
So while trans women can be on the higher end of the athletic bell curve, there's little evidence that they will dominate all or any women's sports. Unless we ban anyone that has natural genetic advantages, which is basically every elite athlete. Most of the world seems to care very little about women's sports when there's not a woman or girl they think is trans involved.
Another helpful link: https://www.genderjustice.us/get-the-facts-trans-equity-in-sports/
That example sounds about right (it was a swimmer anyways that she was ranting about). And she wasn't worried about a man pretending to be a women to get advantage, she was just thinking it was unfair cause they were born already much stronger than a woman and transitioning didn't change that.
Essentially she was not a "mediocre" swimmer when she was on the men's team. She was elite in both, but was not at the absolute top of the field.
Ah, I didn't know much about hte case when she was arguing it with me and as I said I couldn't just point out to mom I didn't trust her sources cause she totally believes her sources are completely unbiased and it is any other sources that are biased. Hell, if I tried to point this out to her with any other sources other than Fox News (or similar) she'd probably just tell me that my sources were unreliable/biased (I think she's over claiming Sorros owned now so I guess Fox is no longer doing that but I've long ago stopped trying to find sources to show her I'm not pulling things out of my ass cause she just always discounted them... which makes it really hard to argue with her).
And the one time I was able to even point out Fox News even said so, she trotted out, "all media is biased!" (she didn't believe Trump said something, I pointed out even Fox reported it).
(I should clarify this is my stepmom. She mostly raised me so I see her as much my mom as my mom but my mom is die hard democrat and not so brainwashed then my stepmom and dad and would not like me to lead people to believe she is the same as my stepmom). Oh, and my stepmom used to not be like this when I grew up (my dad has as far back as I remember been a rush limbaugh die hard republican though) but when Fox News came around she got brainwashed (dad had it on all the time and she was not one who cared so much about politics before then). Fuck Fox News (also fuck Rush Limbaugh who I would say paved the way for Fox News).
I'd also like to point out that literally nobody actually cares about biological advantages, even if they think they do. If they did, everybody would have been calling for Michael Phelps and his webbed feet to be banned from every swimming competition out there instead of releasing article after article praising him for basically being half fish.
The whole "unfair biological advantage" thing is a complete distraction and engaging directly with that instead of the source of the ideas is why you have droves of liberals essentially saying that we can have a little bit of segregation as a treat (and that little bit of segregation obviously would never grow into something even worse now that theyve 'legitimized' transphobes' arguments)
The sad thing is I tried to argue with her if she really cared about fairness then we shouldn't differentiate between genders but more just on ability. She still wasn't going for it. Some how she agreed that some women are better than other women and life isn't fair that way but some how it was bad to be unfair to women to let a trans woman (or is trans man, sorry, I'm not actually super clear on which is which) on the team. She just could not see my point on it (She kept claiming she understood).
I honestly though don't know if she's transphobic or just doing her usual spouting whatever Fox News tells her to care about (I don't think she'd care so much if Fox News wasn't telling her to care). While I think she is prejudiced against some (and sadly I don't think she wants to be but she'll never acknowledge some biases she has so she'll never get better), lgbt+ I don't think is some hill she'd care much about if Fox News didn't tell her differently (She's never had a problem with gay and lesbian at least... and I'm betting she never even knew about trans people until Fox News made it an issue).
Trans woman, whatever someone identifies as is what they are so trans women are women.
/Gen
Thanks :).
On trans women in sports, I’d previously commented on a different thread that we would likely see a “transition prior to puberty” policy, i.e., for high school and collegiate athletics, trans woman (potentially all trans folks to avoid equal protection violations) would need to be on blockers and/or hormones prior to the start of puberty in order to play, to minimize any sort of muscle/bone imbalances. This would be controversial, but ultimately any “solution” would be.
If a person says to me "The Jews control Hollywood" I would not say "gee, there sure are a lot of Jews in Hollywood, maybe we need to implement a quota system". I should instead say "Fuck off Nazi", and then punch[1] them as hard as I can.
I wish people would stop posting far right anti trans talking points on tildes, and especially into lgbt.
Your assumption is that the anti-trans argument is coherent and can be addressed with logic. That's false. The only coherent part is "I hope this will make life harder, even impossible, for trans people". This is why the only valid response is to say "Fuck off", and then punch them. They are pushing an oppressive, violent, hateful ideology and they need to be met with forceful resistance. There is a long history of such action in tackling fascists.
You're going to say "But no no, I don't listen to the far right, I only listen to the people with reasonable objections". In the UK there have been environmental groups, animal rights groups, pro-NHS groups, that were set up by extremist right wing organisations. They appear to be organisations with reasonable concerns. They also recruit people, sometimes by radicalising them, into more obviously far right groups. This is how they work. If someone says "I hate trans people and I want them to stop existing" most reasonable people recognise this as extremist hate. But when the same person says "I have reasonable concerns about child health", (or women's sports, or whatever) people don't take the time to check whether that person signed the Women's Declaration International (which calls to "eliminate the practice of transgenderism").
And it's the same for anti-trans talking points. Helen Joyce wrote the anti-trans book "Trans - when ideology meets reality". In that book she claims that George Sorros donated $100 million in 2010 to the Human Rights Campaign, an American LGBTQ rights group. The amount he actually donated to HRC was about $10,000 (ten thousand). The $100m went to Human Rights Watch - an NGO that monitors human rights. This may look like a simple error, but she previously credited Jenifer Bilek and Bilek made the same claim.
The gender critical movement is inherently antisemitic and inherently far right, and it's frustrating to see people on tildes fall for obvious bullshit. And it is obvious bullshit, because the argument doesn't make any sense: they simultaneously say that transition destroys the body and leaves people severely weakened (destroys bone density!), while also saying transition confers innate biological advantage (testosterone!). Reading what trans people say has exposed me to counter arguments to this, and those arguments are usually comprehensively detailed and sourced to credible research, with good caveating about the state of the science.
The real feminist argument about women in sports is that we need to correct the disparity in funding, and recognise the historic oppression that hampered women's involvement. For example
This 50 year ban (longer for schools) has had, and continues to have, much more impact on female sports than any trans athlete.
I want to clarify that I’m not supportive of these bans/restrictions. I was just trying to say what you may end up seeing implemented in some areas.
I’ve never heard the point that anti-trans arguments are antisemitic, do you have more info about that?
The arguments, besides being made by many of the same people, include targeting Jewish doctors and Jewish hospitals and tying trans-affirming care into a Jewish conspiracy to corrupt and sterilize children.
https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/antisemitism-and-anti-transgender-hate-attacks-gender-affirming-healthcare
You also have everyone's least favorite children's fantasy author now making Holocaust denial comments in service to her anti-trans beliefs. The two hate movements deal in the same dog whistles and tropes too.
https://www.critfacts.com/transcripts/gender-critical-antisemitism
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/antisemitism-transphobia-lgbtq-hate-1.6729223
I'm not an expert on this, but I found these articles compelling.
Thank you, that was informative.
I talked about this elsewhere in this thread but all that does is legitimize and legalize transphobes arguments, especially since they dont actually care about biological advantages or sports, they just want trans people dead or in hiding.