How to move on after a relationship?
Two years ago by wife and I split up as friends and while I understand it and think it was the right move, I'm still in tears and the feeling of a broken and pointless life. She moved on, found friends, new hobbies, new whatever. I still am where she left me and I don't know what to do. We've been together for almost 20 years and while I wasn't very communicative before, I sure ain't now. Even less than before.
I tried finding new friends, but I can't really read people and seem to misinterpret everything. I've met a woman on my daily walks with my dogs and her dog loves me and my little idiot dog. We two seemed to like eachother and after a few months of random meetups I asked her if I should give her my email (because I thought that would be less intrusive than my phone) to meet for walks. I made clear that I didn't intend to hit on her, but the look on her face broke my heart. I can't really tell what it was, but it wasn't positive. Now I'm back in my hole and back at feeling alone.
How do people move on? How can I get out of this... I don't know, terrible loneliness combined with the fear of seeing that expression again if I open up to others? I don't think I can handle this often.
I think from your brief post, I can see you've made several important steps:
(1) you're reaching out to human beings on tildes for advice
(2) you're asking for advice on how to move forward, instead of putting blame on your ex or this dog walker or society in general
(3) you're taking care of yourself physically by exercising, and taking good care of your dog which also keeps you emotionally in better place
(4) you've phrased it as "I don't think I can handle his often" rather than "ever again".
These are all great.
I don't know how that interaction went, and of course I don't know how you're previous ones went, but I will try to ask if you're aware in general aware of how women move about the world that is different from how a man does. In short, we move around with a lot of fear. Not of you, in particular, but if men. Imagine a tank full of fishes living in a tank where it's just neon tetras. Now imagine a tank where neon tetras live alongside predatory fish, 50-50. Dog walking is something a woman does close to her home. It would be disastrous if some sort of misunderstanding were to occur and she is followed home by a crazy person.
You're not a crazy person, of course. But she can't afford to take that risk.
My point is: you meant well and she KNOWS that, but women knowing something to be "probably safe" is not enough to negate the lizard brain screaming "FIRE". She might have wanted to handle it with grace and manners and friendship, and probably chose her words to reflect that, and perhaps your perception of rejection has also been super heightened due to recent events.....but nevertheless, please try to understand this wasn't a rejection of you, it was interpreted as an unsafe thing to ask.
Example, you are hiking and a bear appears and wants to hike alongside. Your rejection of the bear is not due to your knowing this bear is an asshole who cheats at cards.
Example: you are paddleboarding and a shark appears. Your rejection of the shark is not due to to your being a marine biologist, it's just primal
As Margaret Atwood says, men are afriad women will laugh at them; women are afraid men will kill them.
So you're probably thinking, well that's not bloody fair. Yes, it isn't, thank you for noticing how unfair it is for us. And for you too of course.
So to get back to practical terms: how do you make friends? Or, where can a grown man interact with human beings where people feel safe? The internet is one. I would not be having this conversation with you if I were out on a walk by myself. I can go on but I just wanted to first reiterate that you're doing a great job so far and you're going to meet friends and be okay. :)
I get what you mean, but my lizard brain is triggered now and last time I've seen her I panicked and ran away. I wanted to assure her that I've understood and would stop pestering her, but before I could say anything I was gone. Not sure how she thinks of me now.
I thought about finding people via the internet (meet my wife via ICQ) but I don't know where to start. I'm afraid to create a profile.
Reading my comment I realize women have nothing to fear from me, because I'm all fearful myself and would probably hide under a stone if anyone would be interested in me. That'll be a great future.
As a woman, I would agree with you :)
In this brief interaction youve shown yourself to be reflective, thoughtful, and considerate. And my optimism for you is anchored around these good things.
The hiding under a stone comment is I guess fairly common of folks who turn inwards in the face of pain: you're more likely to take less good care of yourself than you are to lash out at others.
Anyway, it will take a lot of time to heal the wound of the end of a 20 year marriage.....a lot of folks will tell you to "give yourself time" and part of what that means is "don't take measurements of how you are doing now as absolute truths about who you are as a core person".
Example, readings of seismic activity should not be read as normal average of a region. Readings of hourly precipitation during epic freakish rain falls should not be read as normal average for the area etc. There'd been a sea change, and when we're hurt and the hurt feels active, wanting to hide from further pain is normal and purposeful.
Thank you for your kind words. While they don't change my situation they make me feel less unfit to find a new place in society ... sometime. That's a start I guess 💖
and thank you for being a delight : )
feel free to ping me if you want to just rant about your day, even if it's just "ugh, blargh, end transmission".
I think your comment is the first one I've ever had to reply to in a split screen. And "first one" includes 9 years of reddit. That's a LOT of text...
I'm sorry for what happened to you. I feel like this is a sentence that comes easy from a lot of people, but I mean it. That sounds like the worst ride one could take, emotionally speaking. Good thing you made it, and good thing you understand that you're not responsible.
I started taking antidepressants yesterday (my neurologist prescribed them weeks ago but I was too scared of them or didn't accept that I'm that far beyond normal, but yesterday I broke down) and I really hope the feeling of my body wanting to rip out of my skin will fade soon, because I hate it. At least I feel like vomiting and that might help getting a bit of my weight down.
Our relationship started as a friendship and ended in one, but she was the first to speak of the end. We both knew we were living in a roommate situation with extended intimacy, but both of us feared to admit it. My mind knows that it was the right thing to split up, but my heart still refuses to accept it. I don't have the trauma that you had and I'm thankful for that. But it still hurts and I'd like to not feel it.
This was the point where I realized I had a depression. I don't have fun and I don't have hobbies anymore. I'm watching youtube and netflix and care for my dogs and I get up for work. That's all I do. But I started to change it and this week was the first time in about half a year that I was able to fold my laundry and not just pick whatever I needed from the drying rack. The smaller one didn't survive that part of me, it broke down from the load of my sheets. There are still heaps of (clean at least) laundry I need to take care of, but I'm slowly starting to do so.
For my inability to find friends and the feeling like I belonged to no one. It's the same old story for decades now, but me and my wife patched up that hole in our souls for twenty years. We've both been in the same spot when we met. And she's nothing like my mother, thank god. Not like I don't love my mother, I just don't want to date her :-D
I lived alone and in roommate situations for years before we met, but I always felt like a stone in the river. Part of it and getting wet, but still not like the water surrounding me. But at least I had friends.
Do I feel guilt for driving her away? Sort of, I do feel like I have trouble keeping up relationships (romantic or of platonic nature) and I feel guilty towards my dogs. She's their mom still and I feel like I deprive them of that relationship. But I don't think I wrecked our marriage. I've done my part for sure, and so did she, but that's life. I don't think either of us was the worst spouse one could imagine. It's just that love came for some years and then left and looked for someone else to pester.
I'm checkin' in with my doc tomorrow and ask for therapy. Don't know how remote therapy works, but I'm sure he can help me find it. I don't feel like sitting in public transport for half an hour each way, half of it crying. And I sure don't want to be driving while doing so.
Thank you so much for your kind words. They mean a lot 💖
So I would ask first, what have you done to grieve the loss?
Second, do you have a therapist? Finding a good therapist is a real pita. And a bad therapist can be worse than no therapist. But a good one is awesome, no matter how healthy you are.
Third, and related to two, have you explored whether you have any trauma history? I don’t mean necessary grave, obvious trauma, although people can live in self-imposed oblivion even to those. But smaller, repeated traumas, especially when young, can have grievous impacts. I speak from experience.
While it has yet to lead to anything long term or serious, I have had good luck connecting with people through dance. Contra dance is really easy and a lot of fun; the hottest dance I’ve don lately is a cuban form of salsa called casino or rueda.
Mainly crying.
No, I haven't gotten myself to accept the fact that I might need one. I know that it might help. To be honest, I hate that they all seem to settle on the other end of the city. That would be one hour only to get there and I hate it. The last therapist I really liked and trusted died last of cancer year, but he was more of a friend tbh.
I'm not sure if trauma. I've always struggled making friends and felt alone almost my entire life. I've never felt like I belonged to any group I've been in. More like tolerated. My wife and I were each others therapy I guess. Or emotional bandaid. I've been in therapy in my youth, but I guess I didn't find the best match.
Oh god, I hate dancing. I'm happy that you find joy in it, but I'm not the person to try. Are women interested in soldering?
You sound like you would benefit from joining a hackerspace or more generally a makerspace.
Huh, I realized I actually am a member of one. I just lost track when they closed their doors due to COVID. Maybe I should check if they have restarted their evening classes. I always wanted to learn to weld. Sewing would be helpful too. Thanks!
Join a sewing or fibre arts circle! Be kind and helpful to the babushkas and they'll hook you up. Only 20% joking.
I had a doc that had about 80% retired people as patients. If you were nice waiting for your appointment they tried to get intel to set you up with their grandchildren.
They didn't believe too much in attraction though. You gotta eat what gets served, no questions asked.
Oh, you are 0% joking. Older people with less to do are the glue that holds society together. They watch over the neighborhood (for better or worse,) they connect people who otherwise wouldn't have met, and they gossip like they need it to live... I mean keep everyone up to date on what's happening nearby.
shsss, I'm trying to lure OP into the gingerbread house that is little old ladies circles :D Come on in, dearie, there's tea on the stove and the cookies are freshly baked.
No joke, I knew one younger woman who joined one of these circles to borrow their sewing machines when they're not being used, and she used the down time to gather volunteers and made hundreds of re-usable sanitary napkins to send to girls in impossible places so that they can go to school. She doesn't club, doesn't social media, doesn't drink, doesn't gamble or online games etc etc -- you can only meet people like that via "secret" places guarded by the crones.
The first part sounds like straight from brothers Grimm...
Even ignoring all the old ladies with nothing to do but play matchmaker, fibre arts is still reasonably popular with young women these days, so it's also not a bad place to meet them!
Im going to assume you're in North America, and recommend you join a local course called DivorceCare. Its for people who have or are going to go through divorce and deals with the trauma that it causes to any of us who have gone through it. Its far less intimidating than going to a therapist, and part of its usefulness is meeting others who are going through the same situation - its a small group setting.
It's pretty pragmatic, and the sessions deal with Deep hurt, Recovery, Anger, Grief & depression, Loneliness, Fears & anxiety, Family & friends, Financial & legal issues, Conflict, Forgiveness, Your former spouse, Single living and ends with a session on Brighter days.
I joined after my 22 yr marriage ended and found it quite helpful. Its usually held in a church but the sessions are for anyone and you dont have to be religious to benefit from it. We had 8 people in our group from a super outgoing and 'semi-healed' person to one guy who was so racked with grief that he could barely say his name. Everyone is welcome and you will find people you can relate to there.
https://www.divorcecare.org/
Europe. But it sounds like it could help. Thank you
Looks like its in Europe too, but in very few centres. https://www.divorcecare.org/countries/gb
Best of luck. Hope all goes well for you. Last suggestion: You could always order the workbook and work through it yourself but that's a half measure compared to talking with others.
I'll check it out, thank you!
In the US a lot of therapists now accept video and phone call appointments. I'm not sure where in Europe you are but it might be an option.
It might help to try and not think of therapy as something that's "bad" but more as getting support from someone who is trained to listen and give advice. My view is that humans are social creatures but a lot of us (myself included) have ingrained the mentality of "I should be strong enough to do this on my own." Often that's not the case. That's not to say that we're weak or that we should be able to do it on our own but can't. It's just to say that we should try and rely more on our support network, one part of which could be a therapist.
In an increasingly secular and socially atomized world, we have lost the "wise elder." There's no village matriarch, no pastor, fewer older relatives who live nearby. Who can we turn to? The therapist, who replaces those with the professional, trained in the finest universities to help with all the most modern techniques.
Is this better? It's better than not having anyone to turn to, but feels much more limited to those of us who have significant resources to pay for the attention. (Though I suppose a 10% tithe to the church isn't cheap either.)
I need to check this, but my country isn't known for the latest high tech solutions in IT. Only in cars.
I don't see therapists as bad, I just have seen some bad examples. But if they'd be fine with remote sessions I'd give it a try. I'll check with my doc next week if he's got something on this. Thanks for the hint!
It seems my country adopted the idea of remote therapy while locking down and it's even fully covered by healthcare. I'll definitely try this.
oh absolutely. I visited my normally-remote job site last year and the technician showed me the soldering he did vs what the site manager did and we had a good laugh. Also something mesmerizing about watching solids melt and pool and just....when it's a good one it's so pretty. There are women site engineers and I'm sure they into good soldering as well.
It was more of a joke, but now I'm intrigued to find one.
haha that's the spirit!
can you imagine, it's friday night, the work is done and you've just had a fantastic dinner, you turn to your companion and say, hey baby, wanna go solder? she smiles and say, you know i like it hot.
:) they're out there. There are dozens of us.
A man can dream...
This question may sound inane, but I encourage you to really think about, if you haven’t.
What, exactly, are you grieving? This question is about more than what you have lost, it’s more about why that is so important.
It's a good question and one that I've thought about a lot. It's not my wife per se. I still like her as a friend. I just miss the company, intimacy, shoulder to lean on, and ear to babble to. I miss being there for someone and cooking for that person.
With intimacy I don't necessarily mean bedroom related. More like a bond that can't be replaced by friendship.
I miss loving someone and being loved. So much.
Let me acknowledge the power and courage you are showing by allowing yourself to be vulnerable in this public space. Even with a shield of anonymity, I hesitate to share emotional details about myself here.
I've walked a similar path as you before, didn't learn the lessons, repeated the mistakes, and paid a heavy price. I share so others may benefit from my experience without having to have it all themselves.
If it's doable for you (I was going to say "if it's comfortable," but in my experience, if I'm doing this work right, it's really uncomfortable, but healing), maybe go deeper. For each of those things you listed, maybe become curious about why you miss that thing. Ask why did you want that? What did it do for you? You might start with a specific example, or maybe an activity that you and she would do that embodies one of the things on your list.
I miss family meal planning. When we were doing that, I was very present with my family, and we were all very present with each other. It created a feeling of belonging, an emotion I feel like gentle warmth and contact around my whole chest, sides, back and shoulders. I especially delight in the feeling because it's one I felt so seldom as a child. It also created a sense of safety. Having a plan, providing predictability and clarity, allowed me to relax and appreciate being cared for. I'm not good at planning, a result in part from too much unstructured time as a child, and unpredictable, inconsistent calendars. It was also empowering, it allowed us to make healthier choices in diet.
It works best for me when I take some real time with it. If you are associated with a deity, prayer might be helpful here. It also works best for me when I make it tangible, that is, I don't just think about the answers, but I materialize them. This can vary. Most often it's writing, which is sometimes with a pen and sometimes typing. But also it's writing with my non-dominant hand, sometimes with crayon, sometimes drawing, sometimes moving my hand and applying pressure to the place on my body that feels the most.
I had more than one opportunity spend time with this before my latest, really disastrous, divorce. I came to it as soon as I could, but if I could have with one of the earlier breakups, disaster may have been averted. I cried plenty at the previous breakups, and thought that was enough, and eventually just "got over it." But really I was just compartmentalizing and avoiding important emotions and their origins. Eventually, they would not be ignored.
Inability to trust other humans is quite a huge emotive issue many in the present times are dealing with. It's quite natural to feel not being able to trust in today's world, there has been just so much cynicism and bad things in the last 1-2 decades or so.
But somehow, you need to bring back that ability to trust and be trusted. And there is absolutely no doubt that you can do it because you've already done it in your childhood. None of us were born like that. As a child grows up, it starts losing that ability due to the situations and people life throws at it. And once lost, it's very difficult to gain back that ability. But dude, you've got to somehow bring it back. It's just like quitting cigarette or tobacco by remembering how cool were the days when we didn't smoke and had that will or control over mind.
And yeah, don't that that particular "dog" woman seriously, there are million other females in this world.
I'm not sure it's missing trust. I just don't know and understand what people want. If they communicate that I can trust, but I have a hard time finding out what I'm expected to do it not do.
The conventional wisdom is that it takes half the time of the relationship to grieve the loss of it. So for you it might be 10 years. In my experience it can be a lot shorter based on the work that you do to process it, and the work that you do to focus on yourself so you regain your confidence and self-love.
Others here have commented extensively about therapy and I agree with their points. It's a net-positive and will help you process quicker.
The biggest thing for me is finding things about myself that I want to work on - fitness, education, income, becoming a better lover, etc. When I invest in those things it helps heal my self image and helps me get over everything.
Oh god, I'm not going to wait ten years. I need a cuddle 😅
And I need to cut down my walks, my feet hurt. Last month my step counter was at 505k, I'm wrecking my shoes faster than I can replace them.
The main thing is to just keep building yourself up mate. You'll get there. And don't be slow to rely on friends when you need
I was married for 8 years, divorced for 1.5, and am still working through some stuff.
I had a whole long reply typed out that I didn't get to finish yesterday morning, and now that I'm sitting down to finish there's a lot of great comments and advice others have shared. So I won't repeat most of it, except the key points I want to emphasize.
I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment others have offered (particularly @Moomtinuum) about focusing on yourself. I realized coming out of my divorce that I was entirely too focused on not just my spouses' needs, but everyone elses but mine. So one of my main goals for myself is... myself. Learning about me, naming my feelings, describing them to myself a lot, trying to discern why I feel that way and accept it before trying to change it (if it even needs changing). I have deeply internalized the classical male trope of trying to be the protector and hero and champion and white knight, and I have wound up with codependency issues. So learning to set healthy boundaries, and communicate them to others is currently my heavy lift.
Learning how to move forward, and rebuild friendships, deepen existing ones, and find new ones is hard. The best way I've learned how to frame it in my own head is, everything is practice. Every interaction with someone is practice for a better one later. So it's ok to mess up, to stumble, to fall down, to be embarrassed, and to look foolish. You know what one of the most attractive things about a person can be? Not that you never look silly, it's that if you look silly, you laugh at yourself and learn from it. So one of the things I've done while focusing on myself is to practice talking to people. Removing the pressure to succeed by not saying to myself "I am trying to make a friend/girlfriend" and instead just practicing talking to people.
There's a lot more I could say on this topic, but in the end I am an armchair therapist at best. I cannot recommend finding a therapist strongly enough. Everyone should have one, just like we all have a physical doctor. I'm in the process of finding a new one.
So while you're working through finding yourself and your new path in life, here is a list of things that I have kept for myself that I've found helpful over the last decade or so: