This paragraph was striking: "Like most women in North Korea, she is the main earner in the family. The meagre wages men earn in their compulsory state jobs are all but worthless, forcing their...
This paragraph was striking: "Like most women in North Korea, she is the main earner in the family. The meagre wages men earn in their compulsory state jobs are all but worthless, forcing their wives to find creative ways to make a living."
The Hard Road Out by Jihyun Park talks a lot about all the side businesses her mother had which meant that her family was able to survive and keep afloat. It's all the more impressive because the...
The Hard Road Out by Jihyun Park talks a lot about all the side businesses her mother had which meant that her family was able to survive and keep afloat. It's all the more impressive because the work required of women by the state basically amounts to a full time job anyway - they are responsible for keeping the communal areas in apartment blocks spotless for example, on top of cleaning the home, childcare and cooking.
A rare look behind the closed borders of North Korea and into the effects of the Kim dynasty's approach since 2020. Some quotes from the article which really hit home:
A rare look behind the closed borders of North Korea and into the effects of the Kim dynasty's approach since 2020.
Some quotes from the article which really hit home:
"I can’t sleep when I think about my children, having to live forever in this hopeless hell"
“With no supplies coming from the border, people do not know how to make a living.” Recently she has heard of people killing themselves at home, while others disappear into the mountains to die
But Ji Yeon hopes for something simpler. She wants to live in a society where people don’t starve, where her neighbours are alive, and where they don’t have to spy on each other. And she wants to eat three meals of rice a day.
The last time we heard from her, she did not have enough to feed her child.
This is truly the saddest and worst of humanity. It's crazy to think that their dictator cares so little about his own people. It just goes to show there are concepts to build society around that...
This is truly the saddest and worst of humanity. It's crazy to think that their leader dictator cares so little about his own people. It just goes to show there are concepts to build society around that are inherently incorrect.
So much unnecessary suffering. And since the only way to survive is to cheat the system, trust nobody, compete like a starving animal, whoever survives this intergenerational tragedy will inherit...
So much unnecessary suffering. And since the only way to survive is to cheat the system, trust nobody, compete like a starving animal, whoever survives this intergenerational tragedy will inherit a broken culture. The wheel of violence and suffering will turn for generations to come.
As a long time communist I have a hard time believing in everything that is posted about "North Korea" by popular news media. It seems contradictory that a country is so closed down and at the...
As a long time communist I have a hard time believing in everything that is posted about "North Korea" by popular news media. It seems contradictory that a country is so closed down and at the same time they have a lot of bad info from it (there is never a good thing to say about it).
Here in Brazil we have people who studies and visits North Korea (Lucas Rubio for example) and I tend to look to them for information.
For example, here is a link about women's role in Korea (it's in portuguese) and they have the same salary as men and participate in everything. They had a crucial role in the revolution.
The same way we have Elias Jabbour who studies China and goes there quite frequently and others like Gustavo Gaiofato who has gone to Cuba.
Also Mundo Sem Fim did a trip to China and it's quite nice to watch.
These days I'm really glad that in Brazil the radical left is gaining traction on the internet because the far right and neoliberalism are pretty dominant there and a lot of bullshit is being cleared up. Including major lies about our Movimento Sem Terra (Landless Workers Movement) which are being unfairly investigated right now by politicians who are partners with deforesters and big landowners.
Looking from the outside, if there was not a far right coup here in Brazil impeaching Dilma Roussef (our former president from the Workers Party) a lot of people would call Brazil some kind of authoritarian leftist dictatorship because the Worker's Party candidate would've been president for 20 years.
The only way the Worker's Party lost was because of a coup and illegal imprisonment of Lula (he was released and is now president again), making it impossible for him to run for election.
Now, I'm not saying people are living well in North Korea or anything, but reality is way more complex.
Living 4 years under Bolsonaro far right government (and 2 years of Michel Temer's before that) and seeing the destruction and misinformation they spread really opened my eyes to a lot of things and made me go far way left than I already was.
Democracy and dictatorship are not black and white. It's a spectrum and it changes from person to person. If you go to indigenous people (the Yanomami) or black people living in slums here in Brazil and asks if we live in a democracy, you'll get a totally different answer than if asking a private investor.
There are people who still believes that citizens are dying of hunger in Cuba. The propaganda is strong.
I suppose my question for you would be: who (if anyone) would benefit from engaging in a massive, multi-decade disinformation campaign to smear North Korea, and is also so powerful that no...
I suppose my question for you would be: who (if anyone) would benefit from engaging in a massive, multi-decade disinformation campaign to smear North Korea, and is also so powerful that no information showing the "truth" ever emerges? It's easy to say that something is propaganda, and I agree that it is, given that all media tries to encourage people to view the world in a particular way. But what evidence is there that it's false?
We have to look at history here, specially the United States role in it. There is a multi decade campaign to smear any socialist country. Be it Cuba, North Korea or China (there are good points...
We have to look at history here, specially the United States role in it.
There is a multi decade campaign to smear any socialist country. Be it Cuba, North Korea or China (there are good points about it being socialist or being capitalist).
The benefit is not having workers see that united they can change things.
Mind you, and I'm sorry for that because this thread is about North Korea, I'm more well informed about Cuba's history, but the bits I read about every revolution have the same similar things happening to them.
I'm not saying North Korea is not a bad place or it is heaven on earth. There are problems there for sure, the same way there is here in Brazil's "democracy" were the Yanomamis are dying of hunger and black people are being shot and jailed.
But you have to dig pretty, pretty deep to find any US or Brazilian news company that reports that every citizen in Cuba has full access to food, good education, health care and housing. I'm not exagerating when I say there aren't people living in the streets and everyone is literate.
Not having a workers revolution is reason enough for capitalists country to spread anti socialist propaganda. We have to remind who is in charge and running these countries. It is not the president.
If I were a socialist country leader, I would never let any US citizen enter without constant supervision. So, any US citizen who enters my country will call it a dictatorship. I call it remembering history.
Anti-communisn and neoliberalism are huge in the US and in Brazil recently too, but at least here due to the strong presence and influence of the worker's party we are able to balance the information a bit.
I'm not saying there isn't any truth there about North Korea. I'm just saying we have to take it with a grain of salt. As I said, I trust more the people who studies and visits the country.
You answered only half the question. This article isn't published by an American news outlet, but I'll concede that the UK is also capitalist. But all of your stuff about Cuba and China is beside...
You answered only half the question. This article isn't published by an American news outlet, but I'll concede that the UK is also capitalist. But all of your stuff about Cuba and China is beside the point. Who could successfully show only negative things about North Korea, and also hide every positive thing about North Korea? Can you answer that without digressions into larger issues of communist vs. capitalist narratives or other countries' successes?
Besides, none of the articles that I've seen that decry NK are focusing on the communist aspect, but on the authoritarian issues, the human rights abuses, the suffering of the people. You're framing this as an anti-communist article, but it's talking about the suffering.
Definitely. I never ever think "communism" when I think about North Korea. And I'm pretty sure not a single article I've read about the country had any focus on the communism aspect.
Besides, none of the articles that I've seen that decry NK are focusing on the communist aspect, but on the authoritarian issues, the human rights abuses, the suffering of the people.
Definitely. I never ever think "communism" when I think about North Korea. And I'm pretty sure not a single article I've read about the country had any focus on the communism aspect.
I can find the good and bad things about North Korea. The point is what is getting to regular citizens who will not actively look for it? You're right, the article is talking about something else...
Who could successfully show only negative things about North Korea, and also hide every positive thing about North Korea?
I can find the good and bad things about North Korea.
The point is what is getting to regular citizens who will not actively look for it?
You're right, the article is talking about something else and I went on an entirely tangent rant.
My every day life here in Brazil is getting to me. So sometimes I look for things that are not there.
I don't know if you are aware of what happened in January 8th here with Bolsonaro followers trying a "capitol" episode and doing a coup.
They failed and yet not any major news calls them terrorists. A lot call them protesters. And at the same time they frame the MST (landless workers movement) as invaders. It's enraging.
Ok, look. I feel like you're arguing in bad faith at this point, because when pressed on your initial point, you first tried to bring in a bunch of unrelated information and then pivoted to...
Ok, look. I feel like you're arguing in bad faith at this point, because when pressed on your initial point, you first tried to bring in a bunch of unrelated information and then pivoted to another unrelated one. I hope you have a great day, and I'm not interested in attempting to discuss this any further with you.
Regarding literacy: Politifact: “When Fidel Castro came into office, you know what he did? He had a massive literacy program.” Axios: Hispanic Heritage: Cuba's literacy legacy JSTOR Daily: Rosa...
But you have to dig pretty, pretty deep to find any US or Brazilian news company that reports that every citizen in Cuba has full access to food, good education, health care and housing. I'm not exagerating when I say there aren't people living in the streets and everyone is literate.
Well, yes. With the internet these things are hard to hide, but let's look at it from the perspective of regular people who don't go looking around at the internet and receive their news in their...
Well, yes. With the internet these things are hard to hide, but let's look at it from the perspective of regular people who don't go looking around at the internet and receive their news in their smartphones daily.
I can only speak for my country, but when we talk about Cuba to every one here the first thing that come to mind is hunger. When we "imported" Cuban doctors to isolated areas to take care of people because we lacked doctors who wanted to go there, there was a huge campaign against it saying Cuba is a dictatorship and they were trying to infiltrate here and take the doctors jobs. The program had to shut down and these places are still out of doctors since no doctor wants to live in these places.
Sure we can find the right info, but what are being reported to regular citizens is another thing entirely.
How can they make sure that people say those nice things once they get out of there? Lucas is brazilian and lives here. How does North Korea controls what he says?
How can they make sure that people say those nice things once they get out of there?
Lucas is brazilian and lives here. How does North Korea controls what he says?
FWIW I believe the argument is that they are shown a very whitewashed view of what living inside the DPRK is like, and if they say things the government doesn't like they are not invited back....
FWIW I believe the argument is that they are shown a very whitewashed view of what living inside the DPRK is like, and if they say things the government doesn't like they are not invited back.
It's hard to tell fact from fiction when it comes to the DPRK for sure, especially with people like Yeonmi Park very clearly grifting. It makes it difficult to tell what is really happening inside when there is no free flow of information and the snippets we get are filtered through people that just make up absurd shit.
I simply do not buy that it is a socialist utopia. It sounds like it is horribly mismanaged. But it doesn't help anyone when people like Park lie for personal gain.
I think nobody clear minded thinks that. At least not the socialists I know. No serious socialist these days thinks that a socialist utopia exists, because marxists are materialists.
I simply do not buy that it is a socialist utopia.
I think nobody clear minded thinks that. At least not the socialists I know.
No serious socialist these days thinks that a socialist utopia exists, because marxists are materialists.
I think you need to take a real hard look at socialism vs communism. Cuba was only a socialist country on an international face they put on. Internally, communist.
I think you need to take a real hard look at socialism vs communism.
Cuba was only a socialist country on an international face they put on. Internally, communist.
There is no such thing as a communist country. Communism by it's definition does not have a government. In fact, there is no definition of how communism is (neither socialism, it depends entirely...
There is no such thing as a communist country. Communism by it's definition does not have a government.
In fact, there is no definition of how communism is (neither socialism, it depends entirely on region, culture, history). The communism happens after socialism, when all the contradictions of capitalism are resolved. There is and probably never will be a communist planet (a country can't be communist).
They most certainly are. Democracies across the world aren't perfect, but they are held in check by independent media, a general rule of law, and personal freedoms. There is no comparison to a...
Democracy and dictatorship are not black and white.
They most certainly are. Democracies across the world aren't perfect, but they are held in check by independent media, a general rule of law, and personal freedoms. There is no comparison to a dictatorship.
It's honestly scary to see someone defending North Korea.
as also a brazilian, there are unfortunately very many leftist brazilians who defend north korea, and it’s just incredibly annoying. it mostly comes from (understandable) anti-americanism, but to...
as also a brazilian, there are unfortunately very many leftist brazilians who defend north korea, and it’s just incredibly annoying. it mostly comes from (understandable) anti-americanism, but to let that get to the point where you defend NK is quite annoying.
the instagram profile they linked to, Lucas Rubio, is a somewhat well-known full-blown tankie and he should simply not be trusted in any way when it comes to China/NK/Russia/etc because he is incredibly biased towards authoritarian communism, and he's also linked to CEPS-BR (also linked by OP), which is pretty much a North Korean propaganda arm:
The CEPS (Centre for Songun Policy Studies) is an organisation dedicated to the study, discussion, and awareness of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, popularly known in the West as North Korea, and of its philosophical and practical pillars: the idea of Juche and policy of Songun. To write our articles and produce content, we use sources from the People's Government of the DPRK, books written within the country, news from various government sources on the Internet, and opinion from us, who have gone to the People's Korea.
from their official website at https://cepsongunbr.com/sobre/ - translated from Portuguese, emphasis mine. you couldn't possibly get a fair view of north korea by using its own government as a source! so yeah, i think it’s fairly easy to dismiss these people as propagandists.
To be honest I only found about Lucas Rubio recently and as I said I don't have much knowledge about North Korea. I believe in what you are saying about him, but it is really hard to filter when...
To be honest I only found about Lucas Rubio recently and as I said I don't have much knowledge about North Korea.
I believe in what you are saying about him, but it is really hard to filter when there are strong propagandas on both sides.
This is true but authoritarianism is a scale and definitely in the eye of the beholder. The DPRK is a very strange example for 'authoritarianism' working correctly, just like how the United States...
This is true but authoritarianism is a scale and definitely in the eye of the beholder. The DPRK is a very strange example for 'authoritarianism' working correctly, just like how the United States is a strange example for neoliberalism working. A better example for each would be China and maybe a western european country.
Does China do evil authoritarian things? Yes. Do they also provide a lot of value to their citizens that do assimilate into a Han supremacist society? Also yes. Meanwhile the DPRK does evil things without actually providing that value. I think that people in China accept the weird big-brother-is-watching stuff because they are living comfortably enough and aren't being made miserable daily by a government that doesn't work.
And as long as everyone agrees that the end goal isn't to provide good education, healthcare, food and shelter for everybody. I think it is inevitable that the contradictions pile up as we are...
And as long as everyone agrees that the end goal isn't to provide good education, healthcare, food and shelter for everybody.
I think it is inevitable that the contradictions pile up as we are already seeing. It isn't going to collapse alone by itself, but the same way that the bourgeois revolution took care of feudalism something is bound to happen sooner or later.
They are making a bad job here then. Because we are still the country who kills more trans people in the world and nothing changed. Trans people certainly don't think we live in a democracy. Their...
but they are held in check by independent media
They are making a bad job here then. Because we are still the country who kills more trans people in the world and nothing changed.
Trans people certainly don't think we live in a democracy. Their personal freedoms are not respected, they are not being heard and laws don't apply to them.
It's honestly scary to see someone defending North Korea.
Paradoxically it takes a nation to care enough about trans lives to report and record trans deaths. In socially repressed countries, the idea of transitioning would be unthinkable for trans...
Paradoxically it takes a nation to care enough about trans lives to report and record trans deaths. In socially repressed countries, the idea of transitioning would be unthinkable for trans people, and the deaths of trans people would be dismissed as 'private family matters'.
The fact that conversations about "bad internal things" (minority and human rights, etc.) even happen in western nations is because there are media and audiences that care enough to have them and governments that will sanction and tolerate them. That is, their societies at large aspire to become something better, even if in a struggling way.
It's a very bad sign when a nation doesn't have any self-critical conversations. These conversations don't happen in such nations not because those issues are solved there — but because their media are not independent or (but often and) their societies don't care enough to have them in the first place, and even if they did, their governments would suppress them.
Im only fluent in Chinese and English, so my apologies if I can't understand the video. It's one person's "first impressions" of their visit to China, right? They had a nice time and folks seemed...
Im only fluent in Chinese and English, so my apologies if I can't understand the video. It's one person's "first impressions" of their visit to China, right? They had a nice time and folks seemed to walk about freely that sort of thing?
If you want some sources on "is China really as bad as America says it is", I have quality journalism to share. But if your mind is already made up due to existing bias I will save my breath.
Full disclosure: I have my own personal bias on China because the regime murdered family members and are actively putting people I know in jail.
You can share your sources. Yes, the video is about first impressions. I was not saying China does not have problems or that the video is a reflection of the reality of those living there. English...
You can share your sources.
Yes, the video is about first impressions.
I was not saying China does not have problems or that the video is a reflection of the reality of those living there. English is not my first language so sorry if I'm all over the place.
I was mainly talking about propaganda. We hear a lot of talk, specially here in Brazil, about China having extremely strict rules about visitors and that you can't do certain things because the police will get you and when you watch them visit you see that it is nothing like that.
I believe you when you say the regime murdered your family members the same way I believe our democratic regime here in Brazil took a men's eye out with a rubber bullet in a peaceful protest against Bolsonaro and another one died of asphyxiation in an improvised gas chamber for riding without an helmet while the president did this every other week in his campaign.
We point fingers at everyone but ourselves.
When something bad happens in a socialist country, the problem lies in it being socialist. When it happens in a capitalist one, the problem is always on the individual.
It's like when one black doctor said: If i make a mistake as one of the first black doctors, all black people are at fault. If it is a white one, the problem is just himself.
There is propaganda, and you do well not buying in on the default American bias against Communism. For what it's worth I am a socialist, and I believe China does its best honest works when it...
There is propaganda, and you do well not buying in on the default American bias against Communism. For what it's worth I am a socialist, and I believe China does its best honest works when it actually follows communist principles.
But it's not some kind of glorious workers paradise, is all I'm saying. The enemy of your enemy is not your friend.
How about independent journalist who have fled HK and now live in the UK? This is a special on the 34th anniversary of the Tienanmen massacre, YouTube has English subtitles. It includes a summary of 34 years of memorials now silenced, statement issued on behalf of the Tienanmen Mothers group, a small story of a tiny bridge bearing a memorial protest phrase which after 30 years got erased.
As someone who grew up in a colony, now lives in a oligopoly pretending to be a democracy, with friends and family living in a "communist" country, I have the duty to point fingers at every single one. No system should be above reproach by the people it ought to serve.
I'm going to look at your links. I don't disagree with anything you said really and as I said I'm not affirming in any way that China is a paradise and that problems goes away once there is a...
I'm going to look at your links.
I don't disagree with anything you said really and as I said I'm not affirming in any way that China is a paradise and that problems goes away once there is a workers revolution. We inherit history, culture and it's problems.
I chose the wrong place to do a general rant about imperialist countries biases. I guess I'm still in reddit mode hehe.
I don’t understand what Kim Jon Ung gets out of killing his population. I thought dictators wanted to be worshipped, but his actions are turning people against him.
I don’t understand what Kim Jon Ung gets out of killing his population. I thought dictators wanted to be worshipped, but his actions are turning people against him.
Possibly he gets nothing. It's very easy for people in such positions to become so insulated from the ramifications of their decisions that they end up making choices that are really obviously...
Possibly he gets nothing. It's very easy for people in such positions to become so insulated from the ramifications of their decisions that they end up making choices that are really obviously bad, and they just have no idea.
It's a little like dead reckoning. Have you ever tried to walk in a straight line with your eyes closed? It seems like it should be easy; after all, you've got years and years and years of experience doing it. Yet cut off your visual feedback, and you walk in circles without any idea that you're doing so.
We greatly underestimate how much we rely on feedback to stay grounded with reality.
Feel free to label this comment as off-topic but I found this article really annoying to read. My country's version of BBC does something similar with big stories, making them interactive like...
Feel free to label this comment as off-topic but I found this article really annoying to read. My country's version of BBC does something similar with big stories, making them interactive like this just isn't helpful. Just let me read your article the normal way, these graphics and animations are excessive to the point of being a bother
This paragraph was striking: "Like most women in North Korea, she is the main earner in the family. The meagre wages men earn in their compulsory state jobs are all but worthless, forcing their wives to find creative ways to make a living."
Wow.
The Hard Road Out by Jihyun Park talks a lot about all the side businesses her mother had which meant that her family was able to survive and keep afloat. It's all the more impressive because the work required of women by the state basically amounts to a full time job anyway - they are responsible for keeping the communal areas in apartment blocks spotless for example, on top of cleaning the home, childcare and cooking.
Fascinating and depressing.
A rare look behind the closed borders of North Korea and into the effects of the Kim dynasty's approach since 2020.
Some quotes from the article which really hit home:
This is truly the saddest and worst of humanity. It's crazy to think that their
leaderdictator cares so little about his own people. It just goes to show there are concepts to build society around that are inherently incorrect.So much unnecessary suffering. And since the only way to survive is to cheat the system, trust nobody, compete like a starving animal, whoever survives this intergenerational tragedy will inherit a broken culture. The wheel of violence and suffering will turn for generations to come.
As a long time communist I have a hard time believing in everything that is posted about "North Korea" by popular news media. It seems contradictory that a country is so closed down and at the same time they have a lot of bad info from it (there is never a good thing to say about it).
Here in Brazil we have people who studies and visits North Korea (Lucas Rubio for example) and I tend to look to them for information.
For example, here is a link about women's role in Korea (it's in portuguese) and they have the same salary as men and participate in everything. They had a crucial role in the revolution.
The same way we have Elias Jabbour who studies China and goes there quite frequently and others like Gustavo Gaiofato who has gone to Cuba.
Also Mundo Sem Fim did a trip to China and it's quite nice to watch.
These days I'm really glad that in Brazil the radical left is gaining traction on the internet because the far right and neoliberalism are pretty dominant there and a lot of bullshit is being cleared up. Including major lies about our Movimento Sem Terra (Landless Workers Movement) which are being unfairly investigated right now by politicians who are partners with deforesters and big landowners.
Looking from the outside, if there was not a far right coup here in Brazil impeaching Dilma Roussef (our former president from the Workers Party) a lot of people would call Brazil some kind of authoritarian leftist dictatorship because the Worker's Party candidate would've been president for 20 years.
The only way the Worker's Party lost was because of a coup and illegal imprisonment of Lula (he was released and is now president again), making it impossible for him to run for election.
Now, I'm not saying people are living well in North Korea or anything, but reality is way more complex.
Living 4 years under Bolsonaro far right government (and 2 years of Michel Temer's before that) and seeing the destruction and misinformation they spread really opened my eyes to a lot of things and made me go far way left than I already was.
Democracy and dictatorship are not black and white. It's a spectrum and it changes from person to person. If you go to indigenous people (the Yanomami) or black people living in slums here in Brazil and asks if we live in a democracy, you'll get a totally different answer than if asking a private investor.
There are people who still believes that citizens are dying of hunger in Cuba. The propaganda is strong.
I suppose my question for you would be: who (if anyone) would benefit from engaging in a massive, multi-decade disinformation campaign to smear North Korea, and is also so powerful that no information showing the "truth" ever emerges? It's easy to say that something is propaganda, and I agree that it is, given that all media tries to encourage people to view the world in a particular way. But what evidence is there that it's false?
We have to look at history here, specially the United States role in it.
There is a multi decade campaign to smear any socialist country. Be it Cuba, North Korea or China (there are good points about it being socialist or being capitalist).
The benefit is not having workers see that united they can change things.
Mind you, and I'm sorry for that because this thread is about North Korea, I'm more well informed about Cuba's history, but the bits I read about every revolution have the same similar things happening to them.
I'm not saying North Korea is not a bad place or it is heaven on earth. There are problems there for sure, the same way there is here in Brazil's "democracy" were the Yanomamis are dying of hunger and black people are being shot and jailed.
But you have to dig pretty, pretty deep to find any US or Brazilian news company that reports that every citizen in Cuba has full access to food, good education, health care and housing. I'm not exagerating when I say there aren't people living in the streets and everyone is literate.
Not having a workers revolution is reason enough for capitalists country to spread anti socialist propaganda. We have to remind who is in charge and running these countries. It is not the president.
If I were a socialist country leader, I would never let any US citizen enter without constant supervision. So, any US citizen who enters my country will call it a dictatorship. I call it remembering history.
Anti-communisn and neoliberalism are huge in the US and in Brazil recently too, but at least here due to the strong presence and influence of the worker's party we are able to balance the information a bit.
I'm not saying there isn't any truth there about North Korea. I'm just saying we have to take it with a grain of salt. As I said, I trust more the people who studies and visits the country.
You answered only half the question. This article isn't published by an American news outlet, but I'll concede that the UK is also capitalist. But all of your stuff about Cuba and China is beside the point. Who could successfully show only negative things about North Korea, and also hide every positive thing about North Korea? Can you answer that without digressions into larger issues of communist vs. capitalist narratives or other countries' successes?
Besides, none of the articles that I've seen that decry NK are focusing on the communist aspect, but on the authoritarian issues, the human rights abuses, the suffering of the people. You're framing this as an anti-communist article, but it's talking about the suffering.
Definitely. I never ever think "communism" when I think about North Korea. And I'm pretty sure not a single article I've read about the country had any focus on the communism aspect.
I can find the good and bad things about North Korea.
The point is what is getting to regular citizens who will not actively look for it?
You're right, the article is talking about something else and I went on an entirely tangent rant.
My every day life here in Brazil is getting to me. So sometimes I look for things that are not there.
I don't know if you are aware of what happened in January 8th here with Bolsonaro followers trying a "capitol" episode and doing a coup.
They failed and yet not any major news calls them terrorists. A lot call them protesters. And at the same time they frame the MST (landless workers movement) as invaders. It's enraging.
Ok, look. I feel like you're arguing in bad faith at this point, because when pressed on your initial point, you first tried to bring in a bunch of unrelated information and then pivoted to another unrelated one. I hope you have a great day, and I'm not interested in attempting to discuss this any further with you.
I said in the comment above that I went off topic on a rant. I apologize.
Regarding literacy:
Politifact: “When Fidel Castro came into office, you know what he did? He had a massive literacy program.”
Axios: Hispanic Heritage: Cuba's literacy legacy
JSTOR Daily: Rosa Hernández Acosta on the Cuban Literacy Campaign
No one is hiding or burying these facts.
Well, yes. With the internet these things are hard to hide, but let's look at it from the perspective of regular people who don't go looking around at the internet and receive their news in their smartphones daily.
I can only speak for my country, but when we talk about Cuba to every one here the first thing that come to mind is hunger. When we "imported" Cuban doctors to isolated areas to take care of people because we lacked doctors who wanted to go there, there was a huge campaign against it saying Cuba is a dictatorship and they were trying to infiltrate here and take the doctors jobs. The program had to shut down and these places are still out of doctors since no doctor wants to live in these places.
Sure we can find the right info, but what are being reported to regular citizens is another thing entirely.
The North Korean government is only going to let in people who will say nice things about them.
How can they make sure that people say those nice things once they get out of there?
Lucas is brazilian and lives here. How does North Korea controls what he says?
FWIW I believe the argument is that they are shown a very whitewashed view of what living inside the DPRK is like, and if they say things the government doesn't like they are not invited back.
It's hard to tell fact from fiction when it comes to the DPRK for sure, especially with people like Yeonmi Park very clearly grifting. It makes it difficult to tell what is really happening inside when there is no free flow of information and the snippets we get are filtered through people that just make up absurd shit.
I simply do not buy that it is a socialist utopia. It sounds like it is horribly mismanaged. But it doesn't help anyone when people like Park lie for personal gain.
I think nobody clear minded thinks that. At least not the socialists I know.
No serious socialist these days thinks that a socialist utopia exists, because marxists are materialists.
I think you need to take a real hard look at socialism vs communism.
Cuba was only a socialist country on an international face they put on. Internally, communist.
There is no such thing as a communist country. Communism by it's definition does not have a government.
In fact, there is no definition of how communism is (neither socialism, it depends entirely on region, culture, history). The communism happens after socialism, when all the contradictions of capitalism are resolved. There is and probably never will be a communist planet (a country can't be communist).
They most certainly are. Democracies across the world aren't perfect, but they are held in check by independent media, a general rule of law, and personal freedoms. There is no comparison to a dictatorship.
It's honestly scary to see someone defending North Korea.
as also a brazilian, there are unfortunately very many leftist brazilians who defend north korea, and it’s just incredibly annoying. it mostly comes from (understandable) anti-americanism, but to let that get to the point where you defend NK is quite annoying.
the instagram profile they linked to, Lucas Rubio, is a somewhat well-known full-blown tankie and he should simply not be trusted in any way when it comes to China/NK/Russia/etc because he is incredibly biased towards authoritarian communism, and he's also linked to CEPS-BR (also linked by OP), which is pretty much a North Korean propaganda arm:
from their official website at https://cepsongunbr.com/sobre/ - translated from Portuguese, emphasis mine. you couldn't possibly get a fair view of north korea by using its own government as a source! so yeah, i think it’s fairly easy to dismiss these people as propagandists.
To be honest I only found about Lucas Rubio recently and as I said I don't have much knowledge about North Korea.
I believe in what you are saying about him, but it is really hard to filter when there are strong propagandas on both sides.
I will view him with caution from now on.
This is true but authoritarianism is a scale and definitely in the eye of the beholder. The DPRK is a very strange example for 'authoritarianism' working correctly, just like how the United States is a strange example for neoliberalism working. A better example for each would be China and maybe a western european country.
Does China do evil authoritarian things? Yes. Do they also provide a lot of value to their citizens that do assimilate into a Han supremacist society? Also yes. Meanwhile the DPRK does evil things without actually providing that value. I think that people in China accept the weird big-brother-is-watching stuff because they are living comfortably enough and aren't being made miserable daily by a government that doesn't work.
The question is: working for who?
It works for neoliberals for sure.
well by "working" I mean not in active collapse. Neoliberalism is capable of being sustainable so long as the people up top aren't too greedy.
And as long as everyone agrees that the end goal isn't to provide good education, healthcare, food and shelter for everybody.
I think it is inevitable that the contradictions pile up as we are already seeing. It isn't going to collapse alone by itself, but the same way that the bourgeois revolution took care of feudalism something is bound to happen sooner or later.
They are making a bad job here then. Because we are still the country who kills more trans people in the world and nothing changed.
Trans people certainly don't think we live in a democracy. Their personal freedoms are not respected, they are not being heard and laws don't apply to them.
That's not what I did.
Paradoxically it takes a nation to care enough about trans lives to report and record trans deaths. In socially repressed countries, the idea of transitioning would be unthinkable for trans people, and the deaths of trans people would be dismissed as 'private family matters'.
The fact that conversations about "bad internal things" (minority and human rights, etc.) even happen in western nations is because there are media and audiences that care enough to have them and governments that will sanction and tolerate them. That is, their societies at large aspire to become something better, even if in a struggling way.
It's a very bad sign when a nation doesn't have any self-critical conversations. These conversations don't happen in such nations not because those issues are solved there — but because their media are not independent or (but often and) their societies don't care enough to have them in the first place, and even if they did, their governments would suppress them.
Im only fluent in Chinese and English, so my apologies if I can't understand the video. It's one person's "first impressions" of their visit to China, right? They had a nice time and folks seemed to walk about freely that sort of thing?
If you want some sources on "is China really as bad as America says it is", I have quality journalism to share. But if your mind is already made up due to existing bias I will save my breath.
Full disclosure: I have my own personal bias on China because the regime murdered family members and are actively putting people I know in jail.
You can share your sources.
Yes, the video is about first impressions.
I was not saying China does not have problems or that the video is a reflection of the reality of those living there. English is not my first language so sorry if I'm all over the place.
I was mainly talking about propaganda. We hear a lot of talk, specially here in Brazil, about China having extremely strict rules about visitors and that you can't do certain things because the police will get you and when you watch them visit you see that it is nothing like that.
I believe you when you say the regime murdered your family members the same way I believe our democratic regime here in Brazil took a men's eye out with a rubber bullet in a peaceful protest against Bolsonaro and another one died of asphyxiation in an improvised gas chamber for riding without an helmet while the president did this every other week in his campaign.
We point fingers at everyone but ourselves.
When something bad happens in a socialist country, the problem lies in it being socialist. When it happens in a capitalist one, the problem is always on the individual.
It's like when one black doctor said: If i make a mistake as one of the first black doctors, all black people are at fault. If it is a white one, the problem is just himself.
There is propaganda, and you do well not buying in on the default American bias against Communism. For what it's worth I am a socialist, and I believe China does its best honest works when it actually follows communist principles.
But it's not some kind of glorious workers paradise, is all I'm saying. The enemy of your enemy is not your friend.
I'm not sure what sources you would actually trust, though. Human Rights Watch? Amnesty International? An independently run journalist body like Hong Kong Free Press?
How about independent journalist who have fled HK and now live in the UK? This is a special on the 34th anniversary of the Tienanmen massacre, YouTube has English subtitles. It includes a summary of 34 years of memorials now silenced, statement issued on behalf of the Tienanmen Mothers group, a small story of a tiny bridge bearing a memorial protest phrase which after 30 years got erased.
As someone who grew up in a colony, now lives in a oligopoly pretending to be a democracy, with friends and family living in a "communist" country, I have the duty to point fingers at every single one. No system should be above reproach by the people it ought to serve.
I'm going to look at your links.
I don't disagree with anything you said really and as I said I'm not affirming in any way that China is a paradise and that problems goes away once there is a workers revolution. We inherit history, culture and it's problems.
I chose the wrong place to do a general rant about imperialist countries biases. I guess I'm still in reddit mode hehe.
I don’t understand what Kim Jon Ung gets out of killing his population. I thought dictators wanted to be worshipped, but his actions are turning people against him.
Possibly he gets nothing. It's very easy for people in such positions to become so insulated from the ramifications of their decisions that they end up making choices that are really obviously bad, and they just have no idea.
It's a little like dead reckoning. Have you ever tried to walk in a straight line with your eyes closed? It seems like it should be easy; after all, you've got years and years and years of experience doing it. Yet cut off your visual feedback, and you walk in circles without any idea that you're doing so.
We greatly underestimate how much we rely on feedback to stay grounded with reality.
Feel free to label this comment as off-topic but I found this article really annoying to read. My country's version of BBC does something similar with big stories, making them interactive like this just isn't helpful. Just let me read your article the normal way, these graphics and animations are excessive to the point of being a bother
The
interactivetag is often applied to topics with this style of interactive journalism, if you wished to filter them out.