Sue the pants off the company and make the HR guy do a million hours of community service. Initially, I thought maybe it's an innocent mistake where two teams each thought the coworker was with...
Sue the pants off the company and make the HR guy do a million hours of community service.
Initially, I thought maybe it's an innocent mistake where two teams each thought the coworker was with the other.
The man [...] used his cellphone to pin-drop his location to his co-workers, who informed him that he was on the wrong route and instructed him to hike back up to the summit to get to the correct trail down, officials said.
Yeah, no. That's the point at which coworkers on their way home should have realised, oh no we left a guy, turn the entire dang car around, and call for rescue. What would have happened if he lost signal or ran out of battery or phone fell into water/crevice??!?! [Edit: thanks /u/lackofaname for pointing out that's exactly what happened with his cell]
You go up on a hike with 15, you best believe no one leaves the site until you have 15. That's incredibly idiotic that once they were informed they left a guy they just did nothing.
He did lose cellphone signal after his first contact and long before being report missing. His last ping at 4pm but not being reported missing until 9pm? Shockingly irresponsible behavior by his...
"Shortly after that message, a strong storm passed through the area with freezing rain and high winds, and he again became disoriented, losing his cell phone signal as well," rescue officials said.
He did lose cellphone signal after his first contact and long before being report missing. His last ping at 4pm but not being reported missing until 9pm?
Shockingly irresponsible behavior by his coworkers, and what a scary situation to find oneself in.
Good point: he lost signal in the storm, and it lost signal all that time overnight until by some grace of God it worked again and he called 911. Not sure they could have been able to locate him...
Good point: he lost signal in the storm, and it lost signal all that time overnight until by some grace of God it worked again and he called 911. Not sure they could have been able to locate him otherwise, some 12+ hours after his last known location, wearing all black, no supplies, no flashlight, unable to get up and disoriented from falls and likely dehydration
It doesn't matter if he was a braggart or insisted on summiting alone or is a hiking expert. Doesn't matter if the trail is obvious. Even if not morally just something you don't do, even if it's just HR and no decency and they hate the guy, whoever's representing the company should have at least stayed at the parking area and called for rescue far sooner. It's an employee under company care: the legal aspect should have at least prevented this.
Funny, I immediately thought this was nefarious (probably because I first read the title as “strangled,” instead of “stranded.”) This is the damning line right here, imo: “Making matters worse,...
Funny, I immediately thought this was nefarious (probably because I first read the title as “strangled,” instead of “stranded.”)
This is the damning line right here, imo:
“Making matters worse, his colleagues descending the mountain ahead of him inexplicably collected belongings left in a boulder field to mark the path down, officials said.”
Opposite of a teambuilding activity. After reading this I'm still very unclear how he wound up separated from the group. Why was he making for the summit alone?
Opposite of a teambuilding activity.
After reading this I'm still very unclear how he wound up separated from the group. Why was he making for the summit alone?
It’s hard to say for sure but I imagine he presented himself as an experienced hiker capable of going it solo. Maybe there was a power dynamic at play too, if he had some seniority in the company,...
It’s hard to say for sure but I imagine he presented himself as an experienced hiker capable of going it solo. Maybe there was a power dynamic at play too, if he had some seniority in the company, and the people who reported to him were more inclined to let him make the choice for himself.
The alternative is that they were just heartless and abandoned the guy against his will, which strikes me as extremely unlikely.
If this is an HR mandated or suggested trip, it just reminds me on why HR is a scourge against humanity (in the USA - do other countries even have HR?). They send you on these “team building” or...
If this is an HR mandated or suggested trip, it just reminds me on why HR is a scourge against humanity (in the USA - do other countries even have HR?).
They send you on these “team building” or “trust building” activities with no instructions or guidance about what I’m supposed to do or learn during these experiences.
How about you send people to continuing education classes together on how to communicate and work as a team ? Accountability ? How to work through conflict ?
No, just more meetings, more consultants, more crap we didn’t ask for all wrapped up in some expensive paper to cover up the shit (benefits) package inside.
Eh, I disagree in degree not in the points you made below. Yes other countries have HR. I think you're a bit confused by what HR is. The stuff you're talking about it "Learning and Development" or...
If this is an HR mandated or suggested trip, it just reminds me on why HR is a scourge against humanity (in the USA - do other countries even have HR?).
Eh, I disagree in degree not in the points you made below.
Yes other countries have HR. I think you're a bit confused by what HR is. The stuff you're talking about it "Learning and Development" or "Culture." When it comes to the bullshit "team building" stuff I agree and it is the most visible part for the majority of people. And honestly most businesses suck at it.
I'm a bit biased as I am in HR, but there is a lot more than happens in HR that you definitely want to happen and is legally required. To name a few: compliance keeping the business honest, labor managing unionized conflict, compensation administrating wage increases, benefits managing healthcare, HR systems managing sensitive data and maintaining data quality, analytics providing the data necessary for decision making and helping other teams find areas of improvement.
Whenever I see the pithy “HR is there to protect the company, not you”, I always think “and whatever stupid thing your boss/coworker did is a great way to get the company slapped with a...
Whenever I see the pithy “HR is there to protect the company, not you”, I always think “and whatever stupid thing your boss/coworker did is a great way to get the company slapped with a seven-figure lawsuit, so it’s in the company’s best interest to help you.” I’m aware that doesn’t always happen, but HR isn’t a bad thing.
I try to split the difference. I fully agree that HR's job is to protect the company. However that doesn't automatically mean that by protecting the company the individual loses. As you point out,...
I try to split the difference. I fully agree that HR's job is to protect the company. However that doesn't automatically mean that by protecting the company the individual loses. As you point out, most of the time those interests align (in a healthy company). I work with people in HR frequently, and they handle all the bureaucratic things I really really hate doing when hiring/onboarding/offboarding people. So I appreciate those folks a lot.
Also individuals (both HR and non-HR) can be jerks, but that doesn't mean all HR people are jerks.
The thing to remember is that HR is a bunch of people. Yes, their remit is to protect the company from liability. Yes, employment lawsuits are an absolutely gigantic potential liability, and so in...
The thing to remember is that HR is a bunch of people. Yes, their remit is to protect the company from liability. Yes, employment lawsuits are an absolutely gigantic potential liability, and so in theory HR should e.g. come down like a ton of bricks on managers who sexually harass their reports. In practice, they often don't, not because they're mechanically optimizing for minimal liability, but because HR usually works pretty closely with management, and so they're being asked to punish people they work with and know, which is something all people everywhere suck at.
But anyway, yes, if you don't have an at least nominally independent formal HR org, then your HR processes and concerns are being handled directly by management, which is much, much worse in almost every way.
Yeah exactly. With HR, sure they might structure every company policy in favour of the company, but at least enforcement is (nominally) centrally controlled. If each manager could just choose to...
But anyway, yes, if you don't have an at least nominally independent formal HR org, then your HR processes and concerns are being handled directly by management, which is much, much worse in almost every way.
Yeah exactly. With HR, sure they might structure every company policy in favour of the company, but at least enforcement is (nominally) centrally controlled. If each manager could just choose to enforce whatever policy worked in their favour and ignore them when it suits, the workplace could be so much more hostile.
In my company, team building activities are just an excuse for a specific product team to go do something fun together, like bowling or kayaking or go-kart racing. No HR involved, we just have a...
In my company, team building activities are just an excuse for a specific product team to go do something fun together, like bowling or kayaking or go-kart racing. No HR involved, we just have a discretionary budget for it and the leads choose to use it this way.
This trip sounds like it could have been one of those.
Sue the pants off the company and make the HR guy do a million hours of community service.
Initially, I thought maybe it's an innocent mistake where two teams each thought the coworker was with the other.
Yeah, no. That's the point at which coworkers on their way home should have realised, oh no we left a guy, turn the entire dang car around, and call for rescue. What would have happened if he lost signal or ran out of battery or phone fell into water/crevice??!?! [Edit: thanks /u/lackofaname for pointing out that's exactly what happened with his cell]
You go up on a hike with 15, you best believe no one leaves the site until you have 15. That's incredibly idiotic that once they were informed they left a guy they just did nothing.
He did lose cellphone signal after his first contact and long before being report missing. His last ping at 4pm but not being reported missing until 9pm?
Shockingly irresponsible behavior by his coworkers, and what a scary situation to find oneself in.
Good point: he lost signal in the storm, and it lost signal all that time overnight until by some grace of God it worked again and he called 911. Not sure they could have been able to locate him otherwise, some 12+ hours after his last known location, wearing all black, no supplies, no flashlight, unable to get up and disoriented from falls and likely dehydration
It doesn't matter if he was a braggart or insisted on summiting alone or is a hiking expert. Doesn't matter if the trail is obvious. Even if not morally just something you don't do, even if it's just HR and no decency and they hate the guy, whoever's representing the company should have at least stayed at the parking area and called for rescue far sooner. It's an employee under company care: the legal aspect should have at least prevented this.
Funny, I immediately thought this was nefarious (probably because I first read the title as “strangled,” instead of “stranded.”)
This is the damning line right here, imo:
“Making matters worse, his colleagues descending the mountain ahead of him inexplicably collected belongings left in a boulder field to mark the path down, officials said.”
What the actual fuck. That is malicious.
That's messed up... they left him behind.
Yeah, sounds like he might be able to sue(?), but I wouldn't stay at that company by the looks of it. So much for teamwork.
Opposite of a teambuilding activity.
After reading this I'm still very unclear how he wound up separated from the group. Why was he making for the summit alone?
It’s hard to say for sure but I imagine he presented himself as an experienced hiker capable of going it solo. Maybe there was a power dynamic at play too, if he had some seniority in the company, and the people who reported to him were more inclined to let him make the choice for himself.
The alternative is that they were just heartless and abandoned the guy against his will, which strikes me as extremely unlikely.
Not a good team building exercise, but a rather apt one in the realities of corporate life.
If this is an HR mandated or suggested trip, it just reminds me on why HR is a scourge against humanity (in the USA - do other countries even have HR?).
They send you on these “team building” or “trust building” activities with no instructions or guidance about what I’m supposed to do or learn during these experiences.
How about you send people to continuing education classes together on how to communicate and work as a team ? Accountability ? How to work through conflict ?
No, just more meetings, more consultants, more crap we didn’t ask for all wrapped up in some expensive paper to cover up the shit (benefits) package inside.
Eh, I disagree in degree not in the points you made below.
Yes other countries have HR. I think you're a bit confused by what HR is. The stuff you're talking about it "Learning and Development" or "Culture." When it comes to the bullshit "team building" stuff I agree and it is the most visible part for the majority of people. And honestly most businesses suck at it.
I'm a bit biased as I am in HR, but there is a lot more than happens in HR that you definitely want to happen and is legally required. To name a few: compliance keeping the business honest, labor managing unionized conflict, compensation administrating wage increases, benefits managing healthcare, HR systems managing sensitive data and maintaining data quality, analytics providing the data necessary for decision making and helping other teams find areas of improvement.
Whenever I see the pithy “HR is there to protect the company, not you”, I always think “and whatever stupid thing your boss/coworker did is a great way to get the company slapped with a seven-figure lawsuit, so it’s in the company’s best interest to help you.” I’m aware that doesn’t always happen, but HR isn’t a bad thing.
I try to split the difference. I fully agree that HR's job is to protect the company. However that doesn't automatically mean that by protecting the company the individual loses. As you point out, most of the time those interests align (in a healthy company). I work with people in HR frequently, and they handle all the bureaucratic things I really really hate doing when hiring/onboarding/offboarding people. So I appreciate those folks a lot.
Also individuals (both HR and non-HR) can be jerks, but that doesn't mean all HR people are jerks.
The thing to remember is that HR is a bunch of people. Yes, their remit is to protect the company from liability. Yes, employment lawsuits are an absolutely gigantic potential liability, and so in theory HR should e.g. come down like a ton of bricks on managers who sexually harass their reports. In practice, they often don't, not because they're mechanically optimizing for minimal liability, but because HR usually works pretty closely with management, and so they're being asked to punish people they work with and know, which is something all people everywhere suck at.
But anyway, yes, if you don't have an at least nominally independent formal HR org, then your HR processes and concerns are being handled directly by management, which is much, much worse in almost every way.
Yeah exactly. With HR, sure they might structure every company policy in favour of the company, but at least enforcement is (nominally) centrally controlled. If each manager could just choose to enforce whatever policy worked in their favour and ignore them when it suits, the workplace could be so much more hostile.
In my company, team building activities are just an excuse for a specific product team to go do something fun together, like bowling or kayaking or go-kart racing. No HR involved, we just have a discretionary budget for it and the leads choose to use it this way.
This trip sounds like it could have been one of those.