What does emotionally mature comedy look like to you?
I've given this some thought and I'm still not sure if I'm expressing it the right way.
I generally don't like "dumb" entertainment. Having said that, I don't think I'm particularly highbrow or pretentious. A quote I refer to often was made in regard to videogames and it aligns very neatly with my philosophy: “If every movie were a porn movie, most people wouldn’t see movies. The majority of games are basically porn—the onus is on [designers] to make more things that are worth a reasonable person’s time.” That's equally applicable to other forms of media as well. You can even argue that various popular mainstream movies/franchises are essentially porn of another type (gun porn, trauma porn, etc.). All of that is to say that I try to look for a level of emotional maturity or sophistication that's beyond cheap gratification.
In practice, that usually means that my plan-to-watch list has a lot of stuff on the more serious side of the spectrum. However, I enjoy comedy just as much as anyone else. Generally, I like clever, witty comedy and I find that I get that mostly from standup comics, sketch shows, and the rare sitcom - not so much movies. But am I limited by my sense of humor? Does emotionally mature comedy necessarily mean "intellectual"/smart comedy? What comedic films would you present as emotionally mature?
You would be looking at middle-brow/high-brow films for that type of comedy. And even going into satires more than comedies.
Stuff like The Big Short, The Favourite, Knives Out, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Wes Anderson films, Woody Allen films, James Brooks films, Chaplin films, Marx brothers films, Coen Brothers comedy films.
A lot of this stuff goes into dramedy. Where there’s comedy but there’s also a layer of seriousness and drama to it. Think Little Miss Sunshine.
From what I understand it’s considered high brow to also like low brow stuff like Adam Sandler movies and whatnot.
Hm. I would think satire leans more to the intellectual side than emotional, no? Dramedy makes sense though.
Some kind of post-irony coolness? I must be no-brow, sheesh.
I think one problem with satire is you generally need to be quite familiar with the content that is being mocked and that tends to be pretty low-brow. For example a favorite of mine is Tucker and Dale vs Evil which is pretty funny to anyone who has watched a lot of low brow horror movies but to anyone who hasn't, like my poor sister who I tried to make watch it, will only see it as crass and pointless.
I don’t know, probably. I just know that high brows tend to like both high brow and low brow art but detest middle brow
Some of the greatest chefs in the world just wanna go eat a dirty-water dog when they get off their shift.
I suspect it's because high-brow and low-brow are strong opposites, a yin/yang. While middle brow is just like a blended grey.
I remember reading Virginia Wolff’s criticism on middle-brow people and art. In that it’s these people that only read for the sake of being seen as high-brow or only read stuff to get something out of it rather than enjoying it for what it is.
And, definitely, the masterpiece that is Dude, Where's My Car?
We now use the power of the Continuum Transfunctioner to banish you to Hoboken, New Jersey.
I always quote “and then. No and then”
I think dark comedy fills that niche pretty well. Usually it has some larger statements or a deep look into the mundane than most comedies. Or maybe just the ones that present things in a new - often surreal - light.
In Bruges - Probably my favorite movie of all time, utterly hilarious, and also deals with some pretty heavy concepts. None of the jokes are tropey - well almost none of the jokes - and the ones that are are still done in a pretty morbid but enjoyable way. They deal with a bevy of dark components: violence, depression, suicide, racism, drug use, poverty, crime - and handle them all with a perfect amount of levity. 10/10 for me.
The Menu - Ralph Fiennes finds himself on this list quite a bit. The menu is a great film - be it a very violent one - that addresses class struggle with surrealist humor. I don't want to give much away so I'll leave it at that. A great laugh if you enjoy dark humor and a cathartic take on modern capitalism.
Everything Everywhere All at Once - What a banger. I've seen plenty of surrealist films - the Lobster, Beau is Afraid, the Favorite, I'm thinking of Ending Things - and so many present life with such a pessimistic bent. EEAO was such a refreshing, crude, and insightful presentation of absurdism. They address family issues, generational stress, poverty, and self identity through a really fun lens.
Four Lions - Another one of my favorites. Imagine Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels (which itself fits this criteria) but for jihadists. It's fucking amazing. They take such a dark topic, humanize the people caught up in it, and present it in an almost slapstick way. I was so hoping Guy Ritchey's movie on post war Afghanistan would take a bit of this bent - but all it did was make a bad boy foreign hero violently overcome the local shabab. Give it a watch.
Sorry to Bother You - Another great absurdist look at modern life. I worked in Oakland for a long time and there was actually a call center on the ground floor of our building so it has special resonance for me. But the whole film, it's depiction of business and capitalism, and the great point it makes while getting wildly absurd are amazing. I'd say this was the appetizer for EEAO.
O Brother Where Art Thou - Beyond diving into some really amazing pieces of American disfunction and being an absolutely amazing primer for "Americana", O Brother makes the darkest of dark incredibly light. It's freaking genius writing and one that makes me laugh regardless of how frequently I've seen it. I also quote it endlessly, including on here.
Sorry To Bother You is an excellent example and ties in beautifully to the other discussion today on call center customer service sludge
I don't know how I forgot EEAOO when I was listing a few of my favorites. It's....crazy well done visually, but I guess because it's every genre I forgot it's a comedy.
It also has some of the best costume design I've seen in any movie. Cannot recommend this movie enough, it's fantastic.
Haha, I had missed that discussion. Very topical.
Yeah, EEAOO really could be just about anything. Action, Drama, Comedy. But boy was it impactful watching it the first time!
What is your opinion of Very Bad Things?
I've never seen it. Do you like it?
I just watched the trailer though and it looks like it could go either way to me. I'm not a big fan of Jeremy Piven, but it looks like it definitely fits the bill of dark comedy.
I like starting with Ebert's take, ripped from Wikipedia:
It's gory, irreverant, and absurd. It is the inverse of The Hangover. I put it right up there with Death to Smoochy. Here's Ebert's take on that:
These are relatively low-brow dark comedies, well-executed IMO.
Man, I love Ebert's analysis of film, and I wish we still have them for new films.
Here's his full review
What I found most disturbing from the long list of things wrong with that film was that in the end Diaz's character, the "b*tch wife" effigy, got the shortest end of the sticks in a way that purely wanted to magnify suffering and makes no even "in universe" sense. If she was such a horrible women to deserve the worst possible ending, why wouldn't she simply walk away from all these dependents? It's like the film has no moral code too sacred except that "women should be caretakers", and that is what I found most disturbing of all.
Dark comedy is a great shout. Gallows humor might be the epitome of emotional maturity.
I enjoy surrealism and absurdism very much but I think that demands intellectual sophistication more than emotional to both write it well and to appreciate. Or maybe it's just how I process things, I dunno.
In any case, any more S-tier dark comedy recs? In Bruges has been on my to-watch list forever... I think I borrowed it back when Netflix DVDs/Redbox was still a thing, fell asleep while watching, returned it, and somehow never got back around to it.
I'll have to noodle other ones, those are the ones that jump to top of mind.
Any that stand out to you?
Well, I don't have very many comedy films under my belt, period. On top of that, my memory when it comes to movies and shows is atrocious. I can think of movies that have dark comedy elements rather than are dark comedy films outright.
Lakeboat is a personal fave. A grad student takes a summer job on a Great Lakes cargo ship and grapples with the personalities of the men who live that life. It's not that dark overall, more like an absurdist dramedy, but the notes are there and some great performances bring it to life.
I know I've seen a few more but I couldn't tell you which for the life of me. I can only think of Parasite and Dr. Strangelove, and everyone here will probably vouch for those.
A few shows that qualify... Atlanta, Blackadder, certain episodes of Black Mirror.
British and Irish humor is mainly what comes to mind.
I can offer some examples of emotionally less immature comedies I enjoy, and hopefully film buffs can tell me if there's a name of these kinds of humour.
The Wedding Banquet Ang Lee, 1993. Young, gay Taiwanese American man fakes a quick wedding to placate his traditional parents, by pretending his partner is a mere friend, and his artist renter is the fiance. Hilarity ensues because there is generational, cultural, sexual orientation tension at play, plus complexities of adult relationships, feminism, and to what do we owe one another. But in a light hearted way: not trauma porn, more like a funny anecdote about your family that you might share with friends. I would say this is sitcom with subject matter maturity?
Hot Fuzz, Edgar Wright, 2007 and Scott Pilgrim Vs The World, Edgar Wright, 2010. The stories might be silly, but the comedy is in the tight editing, the dialogue, visual humour, call backs, subversion of expectations and genres, and sound designs. There are so many details jam packed into the laughs that even rewatches are rewarding. I would say this is comedy that is mature on a technical, visual medium level.
Jojo Rabbit, Taika Waititi 2019 - a young boy growing up in Nazi Germany whose imaginary friend is Hitler. Very serious subject matter, satirized. There are some very immature moments about very extremely upsetting subjects, such as the Gestapo in their terrifying line of work: the maturity is in recognizing the absurdity and a warning from the past. Satire.
Trauma Dumping With Lou Wilson, Lou Wilson 2025. This is a currently airing show about a "bro" type comedic character trying to capitalize on the mental health "fad". The maturity is in the subject matter: a YouTuber trying to advertise, to gain likes subscribers sponsor and "keep mental health fun and light", rubbing up against his desire to, and fear of, sincerely engage with the topic of mental health. Cringe..
Don't have any actual suggestions, but I think you're looking at it in a black-and-white way that may not jive with the way shows and movies work. For example, you mention "Generally, I like clever, witty comedy". I'd consider South Park to be extremely clever and witty, yet they're understandably considered (very) low brow comedy. Like on the one hand they'll make gratuitous fart jokes just for the hell of it, but then on the other hand they'll provide nuanced social and political sarcasm/commentary. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are high and low brow points within the same media. The same show or movie can have both emotional maturity/sophistication AND cheap gratification. Futurama is another example, ridiculously clever and witty, yet doesn't shy from the odd low-brow gag.
That's absolutely true, great point.
It's an indictment of my viewing habits, really - I dismiss a LOT of stuff at the first whiff of inanity, and that's maybe unfair on some level. Then again, I have tolerance for silliness, so... I dunno.
One of my favorite comedy shows is "better things." I think I really walks that line of the humor of being human and honest introspection.
Danny Kaye's Court Jester is my favorite movie of all time, and I think it would fall under the umbrella of what you're looking for
I like comedy that taps into what we already perceive as absurd and silly, and only exaggerates it for comedic effect. There's so much thoughtlessness, pride, self-importance, stubbornness, pettiness and micro-embarrassment present in normal social or professional situations that you can tap into, relying on the audience to recognize it in themselves and in people around them to ever find it funny, which I guess requires a kind of emotional maturity.
I've recently been watching On Cinema at the Cinema. It's presented as an amateurish movie review show with a host and a recurring guest that is essentially a host but in name. Both characters are really just two different kinds of nerds who think themselves movie critics for watching a lot of movies, without really having anything very interesting or important to say about them and being incompetent as critics. There is an exaggerated resentment between the two; it's clear that they are friends, maybe for lack of options, but frequently get on each other's nerves, often simply for disagreeing on a topic. Their way of dealing with this usually takes the form of passive aggressive jabs and attempts to assert themselves, while trying to maintain a sense of professionalism that wasn't there in the first place.
It's funny really because you aren't that emotionally inept yourself, but because you aren't you probably recognize most of their bullshit. Especially if you are a nerd, you've probably been in social situations where the resentful friend dynamic between stubborn people who think highly of themselves but not of each other is present, just not tuned to 11.
The Office is a lot like this as well IIRC. The UK one; I think the US was more farcical and painted a more wholesome picture, but the UK one is more of just exaggerated but still relatable, awkward social situations centered around the petty, manipulative boss.