Sure glad the folks who decided they just couldn't vote for Biden because his handling of Gaza was deemed unacceptable sat the election out (but I suppose it's time for me to get over that and...
Sure glad the folks who decided they just couldn't vote for Biden because his handling of Gaza was deemed unacceptable sat the election out (but I suppose it's time for me to get over that and look forward...). This idea is classic Trump - childishly simplistic, and completely unworkable.
It was clear from the start that those people’s concern for Gaza started and stopped with its convenience as a cudgel to beat Democrats. They view politics as a game where Democrats winning...
Exemplary
It was clear from the start that those people’s concern for Gaza started and stopped with its convenience as a cudgel to beat Democrats.
They view politics as a game where Democrats winning elections delays the glorious revolution and so we must elect Republicans until the Democratic Party withers away and they will replace it with a proper leftist party. It’s deluded, nihilistic, and destructive and we’re past the point where we should let ourselves continued to be fooled into viewing such people as allies. They’re handmaidens to fascists. They view a slide into fascism as a necessary first step to realizing their political goals. Every community they claim to care about is something they’re willing to martyr for their ideology. Every cause they claim is non-negotiable is actually a sacrifice they’re willing to make in service to the millenarian doomsday cult.
I was particularly thinking in this context. Bringing about revalation is no small part of their ideology. Well "they" as Republicans. The "they" in terms of the idiotic sector of the...
I was particularly thinking in this context.
Every community they claim to care about is something they’re willing to martyr for their ideology.
Bringing about revalation is no small part of their ideology. Well "they" as Republicans. The "they" in terms of the idiotic sector of the left....that's a more complicated problem. The Democrats do plenty of their own foot-shooting in the name of courting Republicans and don't really need the left to help.
Gaza was that "dragon's tears" support that wasn't really support, but yet another tool.
Thought that "glorious Revolution" was Jan. 6th? They lost pretty badly overall. But I guess they got the last laugh given the pardons. I sure would love to hear a coherent take on what these...
Democrats winning elections delays the glorious revolution and so
Thought that "glorious Revolution" was Jan. 6th? They lost pretty badly overall. But I guess they got the last laugh given the pardons.
we must elect Republicans until the Democratic Party withers away and they will replace it with a proper leftist party... They view a slide into fascism as a necessary first step to realizing their political goals.
I sure would love to hear a coherent take on what these political goals are. I, in my kindest interpretation, simply see it as a mix of single voter issues enforced on everyone (guns, aborttion, religion, etc) as well as a "return to the good times" in the 50's/60's where "success" was easier to obtain.
Nevermind that the powers that be don't want the blue collar to return to that single income household style (much easier to charge more for everything) and that the Internet irrevokably changed how interpersonal dynamics work. A few laws can alter that.
@NaraVara is talking about lefties with accelerationist tendencies. Republicans winning encourages people to swing to the left and help bring about the revolution.
@NaraVara is talking about lefties with accelerationist tendencies. Republicans winning encourages people to swing to the left and help bring about the revolution.
I see. Well it's been some 20 years of more of the usual of the presidency swinging around. I don't think they are accelerating much. Can we just keep it simple and address Gerrymandering and...
I see. Well it's been some 20 years of more of the usual of the presidency swinging around. I don't think they are accelerating much.
Can we just keep it simple and address Gerrymandering and First Past the Post instead?
I think it is very easy to criticize the people who decided the war was their deciding issue in the election, but I don't think that population is all that big. Feel like it should not be the main...
I think it is very easy to criticize the people who decided the war was their deciding issue in the election, but I don't think that population is all that big. Feel like it should not be the main focus of discussion when we see Trump about to do something terrible for literally everyone.
When the overall margin was 1%, and even less in the swing states that mattered, every individual thing made a difference. The main focus of discussion should be what Trump is doing, but it’s hard...
When the overall margin was 1%, and even less in the swing states that mattered, every individual thing made a difference. The main focus of discussion should be what Trump is doing, but it’s hard not to be frustrated when the actual time to do something to stop it has already passed, and the people who claimed to care most couldn’t bring themselves to do it.
This is anecdotal but I run in some pretty lefty circles and everyone I know that voted “uncommitted” in the Democratic primary still voted for Biden in the general.
This is anecdotal but I run in some pretty lefty circles and everyone I know that voted “uncommitted” in the Democratic primary still voted for Biden in the general.
Actual uncommitted voters yeah, but they were a small and unheeded minority among the Palestine protesters. I'm actually not mad at them, they did the best they could with the unimaginably shitty...
Actual uncommitted voters yeah, but they were a small and unheeded minority among the Palestine protesters. I'm actually not mad at them, they did the best they could with the unimaginably shitty situation and I have an immense amount of respect for that. It's the larger mass of mostly uninterested virtue signalers online whose main focus is using whatever the fashionable cause is this week as the excuse to trash the Democrats that earn my contempt. I could practically see them salivating over the Gaza issue because marginalized groups only have utility for them as martyrs for them to posture about.
And the margins were significantly larger than any estimated non-voter blocs, especially when you consider the electoral margin and where those non-voters were located.
And the margins were significantly larger than any estimated non-voter blocs, especially when you consider the electoral margin and where those non-voters were located.
Voter turnout among Gen Z was very low compared to historical turnout for voters of that age. I always wonder if TikTok is just some massive psy ops by China to dumb down and disengage young...
Voter turnout among Gen Z was very low compared to historical turnout for voters of that age.
I always wonder if TikTok is just some massive psy ops by China to dumb down and disengage young Americans. It seems successful.
Ok, so just so we're clear. You're not mad at the Biden administration for sending billions of dollars of unconditional military aid to a far-right government that is accused of war crimes and...
Ok, so just so we're clear. You're not mad at the Biden administration for sending billions of dollars of unconditional military aid to a far-right government that is accused of war crimes and genocide. You're not mad at the Harris campaign, that not only refused to distance itself from the deeply unpopular policy, but also sent the most avid Israeli supporters in the Democratic coalition to districts with high uncommitted voters. You're mad at the people who stuck to their principles and refused to vote for someone who is actively supporting a genocide.
The idea that people in Gaza would somehow be better off under a continuation of Biden policies after everything we've seen over the past 15 months is insane.
Trump has not stopped aid to Israel*, he's lifted the restriction on 2000 pound bombs, and is now proposing a temporary ethnic cleansing of the Gaza Strip. Suggesting Harris was the better option...
Trump has not stopped aid to Israel*, he's lifted the restriction on 2000 pound bombs, and is now proposing a temporary ethnic cleansing of the Gaza Strip. Suggesting Harris was the better option is not insane at all. We can only hope at this point that Trump accidentally stumbles upon a better solution.
*One of just two countries that the temporary foreign aid halt does not apply to.
You say it’s “insane” but how can we even do the comparison? There’s a ceasefire now and there wasn’t before, so Gaza seems pretty obviously better off now than during the war. Who gets the...
You say it’s “insane” but how can we even do the comparison?
There’s a ceasefire now and there wasn’t before, so Gaza seems pretty obviously better off now than during the war.
Who gets the credit? All the negotiation happened during the Biden administration. But the timing is suspicious. It doesn’t seem like there was much progress until after Trump won the election? Having a deadline to finish the deal before Trump somehow blows it up might have been important?
Does anyone know more about why the cease-fire deal happened when it did? Any guesses about what might have happened if Harris had won? I haven’t the the foggiest idea.
Netanyahu wanting Trump in office probably had an impact. It doesn't feel like there's a lot of good faith negotiation happening regardless. But I think it would have happened even if Harris was...
Netanyahu wanting Trump in office probably had an impact. It doesn't feel like there's a lot of good faith negotiation happening regardless. But I think it would have happened even if Harris was president, the external factors - public opinion in Israel, pressure from other countries - would still have been there.
But it looks like something is happening. Much like the stack of executive orders, it looks like something is happening even if most of them are harmless. And that's what people all over the world...
This idea is classic Trump - childishly simplistic, and completely unworkable.
But it looks like something is happening. Much like the stack of executive orders, it looks like something is happening even if most of them are harmless. And that's what people all over the world seem to want by voting out all incumbents: something, anything, must happen.
It's effective politically, even if it's unworkable and simplistic.
I don't favor making people move involuntarily, but the part that does make sense to me is that anyone in Gaza who wants to leave should be able to. Every rich country in the world should accept...
I don't favor making people move involuntarily, but the part that does make sense to me is that anyone in Gaza who wants to leave should be able to.
Every rich country in the world should accept some immigrants, including the US.
There’s a backstory to why it’s hard to resettle Gazans. When Jordan took in a large population of Palestinian refugees the PLO tried to launch a coup against the Jordanian government because they...
There’s a backstory to why it’s hard to resettle Gazans. When Jordan took in a large population of Palestinian refugees the PLO tried to launch a coup against the Jordanian government because they were not sufficiently militant about reconquering Israel. There’s a view in the Arab world that this population has simply been too radicalized to bring in large numbers without empowering Jihadi factions in their own politics.
Sure, but if multiple countries accept them in smaller numbers, this seems less likely? Gaza’s total population is around 2 million and many will not want to go. There don’t seem to be any...
Sure, but if multiple countries accept them in smaller numbers, this seems less likely? Gaza’s total population is around 2 million and many will not want to go.
There don’t seem to be any statistics on how many people leave Gaza. Some estimates seem to be about 10,000 a year before the war, but that would change if it were easier. According to this article, one route was getting a visa in Turkey and applying for asylum in Greece.
For sure, but it's hard to say up front how big or small the community would need to be. And you also would need to have a large enough community that it's an actual community and not just a...
For sure, but it's hard to say up front how big or small the community would need to be. And you also would need to have a large enough community that it's an actual community and not just a culture that gets erased via dilution.
Tibetans have more or less accepted that they're diasporic nation/culture now, but they have strongholds in the USA and India where there are enough of them to maintain shared traditions and cultural institutions. Palestinians would need something like that if "Palestinian" is to mean anything. Otherwise in a generation or two they just become Egyptians, Jordanians, Kuwaitis, etc.
Although I'm interested in cultural traditions and have some interest in preserving them, I don't entirely buy into this argument because I'm more interested in helping people (reducing suffering)...
Although I'm interested in cultural traditions and have some interest in preserving them, I don't entirely buy into this argument because I'm more interested in helping people (reducing suffering) than in preserving cultures. If an immigrant family prospers in their new country then that seems like a win, however much they choose to assimilate?
Then again, I would say that, wouldn't I? After all, I'm a descendant of immigrants and I don't speak any language other than English. (Well, a bit of French.)
Sure glad the folks who decided they just couldn't vote for Biden because his handling of Gaza was deemed unacceptable sat the election out (but I suppose it's time for me to get over that and look forward...). This idea is classic Trump - childishly simplistic, and completely unworkable.
It was clear from the start that those people’s concern for Gaza started and stopped with its convenience as a cudgel to beat Democrats.
They view politics as a game where Democrats winning elections delays the glorious revolution and so we must elect Republicans until the Democratic Party withers away and they will replace it with a proper leftist party. It’s deluded, nihilistic, and destructive and we’re past the point where we should let ourselves continued to be fooled into viewing such people as allies. They’re handmaidens to fascists. They view a slide into fascism as a necessary first step to realizing their political goals. Every community they claim to care about is something they’re willing to martyr for their ideology. Every cause they claim is non-negotiable is actually a sacrifice they’re willing to make in service to the millenarian doomsday cult.
Revelation. The dominance of the Evangelical wing can not be overstated.
I think NaraVara's comment is referring to those who are pro-gaza, evangelicals who are waiting for revelation generally are pro-israel
I was particularly thinking in this context.
Bringing about revalation is no small part of their ideology. Well "they" as Republicans. The "they" in terms of the idiotic sector of the left....that's a more complicated problem. The Democrats do plenty of their own foot-shooting in the name of courting Republicans and don't really need the left to help.
Gaza was that "dragon's tears" support that wasn't really support, but yet another tool.
Thought that "glorious Revolution" was Jan. 6th? They lost pretty badly overall. But I guess they got the last laugh given the pardons.
I sure would love to hear a coherent take on what these political goals are. I, in my kindest interpretation, simply see it as a mix of single voter issues enforced on everyone (guns, aborttion, religion, etc) as well as a "return to the good times" in the 50's/60's where "success" was easier to obtain.
Nevermind that the powers that be don't want the blue collar to return to that single income household style (much easier to charge more for everything) and that the Internet irrevokably changed how interpersonal dynamics work. A few laws can alter that.
@NaraVara is talking about lefties with accelerationist tendencies. Republicans winning encourages people to swing to the left and help bring about the revolution.
I see. Well it's been some 20 years of more of the usual of the presidency swinging around. I don't think they are accelerating much.
Can we just keep it simple and address Gerrymandering and First Past the Post instead?
I think it is very easy to criticize the people who decided the war was their deciding issue in the election, but I don't think that population is all that big. Feel like it should not be the main focus of discussion when we see Trump about to do something terrible for literally everyone.
When the overall margin was 1%, and even less in the swing states that mattered, every individual thing made a difference. The main focus of discussion should be what Trump is doing, but it’s hard not to be frustrated when the actual time to do something to stop it has already passed, and the people who claimed to care most couldn’t bring themselves to do it.
This is anecdotal but I run in some pretty lefty circles and everyone I know that voted “uncommitted” in the Democratic primary still voted for Biden in the general.
Actual uncommitted voters yeah, but they were a small and unheeded minority among the Palestine protesters. I'm actually not mad at them, they did the best they could with the unimaginably shitty situation and I have an immense amount of respect for that. It's the larger mass of mostly uninterested virtue signalers online whose main focus is using whatever the fashionable cause is this week as the excuse to trash the Democrats that earn my contempt. I could practically see them salivating over the Gaza issue because marginalized groups only have utility for them as martyrs for them to posture about.
And the margins were significantly larger than any estimated non-voter blocs, especially when you consider the electoral margin and where those non-voters were located.
Voter turnout among Gen Z was very low compared to historical turnout for voters of that age.
I always wonder if TikTok is just some massive psy ops by China to dumb down and disengage young Americans. It seems successful.
Ok, so just so we're clear. You're not mad at the Biden administration for sending billions of dollars of unconditional military aid to a far-right government that is accused of war crimes and genocide. You're not mad at the Harris campaign, that not only refused to distance itself from the deeply unpopular policy, but also sent the most avid Israeli supporters in the Democratic coalition to districts with high uncommitted voters. You're mad at the people who stuck to their principles and refused to vote for someone who is actively supporting a genocide.
The idea that people in Gaza would somehow be better off under a continuation of Biden policies after everything we've seen over the past 15 months is insane.
Trump has not stopped aid to Israel*, he's lifted the restriction on 2000 pound bombs, and is now proposing a temporary ethnic cleansing of the Gaza Strip. Suggesting Harris was the better option is not insane at all. We can only hope at this point that Trump accidentally stumbles upon a better solution.
*One of just two countries that the temporary foreign aid halt does not apply to.
You say it’s “insane” but how can we even do the comparison?
There’s a ceasefire now and there wasn’t before, so Gaza seems pretty obviously better off now than during the war.
Who gets the credit? All the negotiation happened during the Biden administration. But the timing is suspicious. It doesn’t seem like there was much progress until after Trump won the election? Having a deadline to finish the deal before Trump somehow blows it up might have been important?
Does anyone know more about why the cease-fire deal happened when it did? Any guesses about what might have happened if Harris had won? I haven’t the the foggiest idea.
Netanyahu wanting Trump in office probably had an impact. It doesn't feel like there's a lot of good faith negotiation happening regardless. But I think it would have happened even if Harris was president, the external factors - public opinion in Israel, pressure from other countries - would still have been there.
But it looks like something is happening. Much like the stack of executive orders, it looks like something is happening even if most of them are harmless. And that's what people all over the world seem to want by voting out all incumbents: something, anything, must happen.
It's effective politically, even if it's unworkable and simplistic.
That's an interesting thought - just bread and circuses, only executive orders?
I don't favor making people move involuntarily, but the part that does make sense to me is that anyone in Gaza who wants to leave should be able to.
Every rich country in the world should accept some immigrants, including the US.
There’s a backstory to why it’s hard to resettle Gazans. When Jordan took in a large population of Palestinian refugees the PLO tried to launch a coup against the Jordanian government because they were not sufficiently militant about reconquering Israel. There’s a view in the Arab world that this population has simply been too radicalized to bring in large numbers without empowering Jihadi factions in their own politics.
Sure, but if multiple countries accept them in smaller numbers, this seems less likely? Gaza’s total population is around 2 million and many will not want to go.
There don’t seem to be any statistics on how many people leave Gaza. Some estimates seem to be about 10,000 a year before the war, but that would change if it were easier. According to this article, one route was getting a visa in Turkey and applying for asylum in Greece.
For sure, but it's hard to say up front how big or small the community would need to be. And you also would need to have a large enough community that it's an actual community and not just a culture that gets erased via dilution.
Tibetans have more or less accepted that they're diasporic nation/culture now, but they have strongholds in the USA and India where there are enough of them to maintain shared traditions and cultural institutions. Palestinians would need something like that if "Palestinian" is to mean anything. Otherwise in a generation or two they just become Egyptians, Jordanians, Kuwaitis, etc.
Although I'm interested in cultural traditions and have some interest in preserving them, I don't entirely buy into this argument because I'm more interested in helping people (reducing suffering) than in preserving cultures. If an immigrant family prospers in their new country then that seems like a win, however much they choose to assimilate?
Then again, I would say that, wouldn't I? After all, I'm a descendant of immigrants and I don't speak any language other than English. (Well, a bit of French.)
Easy peasy! Why didn’t they think of that?
Oh for f*ck's sake.