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5 votes
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Flags and symbols of patriotism in context
Recently I was watching the World War 2 series "Masters of the Air". In one of the last scenes, there is an American prisoner of war who climbs up the flag pole and replaces the German flag with...
Recently I was watching the World War 2 series "Masters of the Air". In one of the last scenes, there is an American prisoner of war who climbs up the flag pole and replaces the German flag with the American flag as American troops liberate the camp. I thought it was a powerful aesthetic image: A battered flag of freedom replacing a flag of oppression.
The American flag looks very nice to me, especially used in dramatic art. But I think that's mostly the connotations of my upbringing. If you look at the aesthetics of it without any history of it, it looks like a striped tablecloth sewn to a starry apron or something. And to a lot of other people in the world it looks like greed or violence or oppression or something else again.
I'm sure these aren't original thoughts, but the use of this flag as a symbol has been bothering me for the last 8 or 10 years. It's been co-opted to mean something different than before, inside the very places where it previously would have much more positive connotations. If I see that flag on a big pickup truck, I have a strongly negative connotation with it. Or if I see it defaced with a blue line on it. Or if I see it on the pin of a politician. Or on a pole in a used car lot. Or in any advertisement.
This is more about my own naivete about whatever the United States was actually about, separate from what we are taught as children and the stories we tell ourselves. But I'm guessing a lot more people have these thoughts than did a few years ago.
I remember some people a few years ago were telling progressives to "Take back the flag from the right wing". I guess I don't know if that's going to work, there seems to be a poisoned well now and anyway everyone always brings their own experiences to such symbols and your display of positivity may have the opposite effect on others.
17 votes -
Girlfriend and I bought plan B at Costco yesterday, pharmacist said they'd already sold more than 100 since the election
We live in Texas, so abortion is already illegal here. We ordered a plan C pill as soon as Roe v Wade was overturned back in 2022 and just ordered another yesterday, as well. We also went to...
We live in Texas, so abortion is already illegal here. We ordered a plan C pill as soon as Roe v Wade was overturned back in 2022 and just ordered another yesterday, as well. We also went to Costco to get some plan B, just in case, and the pharmacist literally said they'd sold over 100. It's so crazy to me that Trump can win with policies as unpopular as abortion bans, ugh. I worry for my girlfriend and women and LGBTQ+ people across the US, but especially in red states like here.
47 votes -
Donald Trump's team mulls postponing Ukraine's NATO membership for at least twenty years, WSJ reports
30 votes -
Why US Democrats won't build their own Joe Rogan
30 votes -
Thoughts on Donald Trump, America and what this all means
So this is reality. I warned myself not to take anything for granted with Trump, 2016 happened, but still I was starting to feel hopeful for a minute there. But nope, this is what America looks...
So this is reality. I warned myself not to take anything for granted with Trump, 2016 happened, but still I was starting to feel hopeful for a minute there. But nope, this is what America looks like now. For now.
This sucks for a lot of Americans, some are justifiably devastated. A lot is uncertain and we all have to figure out how to navigate this version of the country for, at least, the next 4 years. That's of course part of the insanity, that there are big questions about what happens when Trump's term is over. We kinda know there's going to be some level of a coup attempt, we just don't know if it will be successful.
But for the moment I want to put aside the myriad fucked up social, economic and geopolitical implications and explore what it means from a more ideology and identity sort of angle.
This means that we don't live in a just world. When my partner was crying last night, I think that's what she was feeling the loss of most of all. The idea that despite the imperfections of the world, somewhere underneath there is some form of justice based in the fundamentally good nature of human beings.
Intellectually it seems obvious that there is no inherent justice. But emotionally it's a different story. Speaking for Americans, it's not the story we're told growing up in the shining beacon of democracy. The concept of what America is, and who Americans are, that we translate to our childen is missing most of the nuance. And many of us keep that with us emotionally as adults, even if we know better.
The grown up version, the story we tell ourselves in American culture, has more nuance but not as much as you'd hope for. As an example, we've been pretending that giant corporations, conglomerates and the ultrawealthy can serve the public interest for an embarrassingly long time. We've made materialism into an art. A little light to medium evil in our foreign policy is just something we need to accept.
Of course the nuance isn't lost on everyone, a lot of us have a clear view of what America is, and western capitalist democracy writ large, but Trump is president, in part, because a lot of people do not. Full stop. We, as a culture, are telling the wrong stories about ourselves.
But Trump is president, in spite of his escalating rhetoric and Jan 6th and the nazis on parade and the election wasn't even close. So we have to come to terms with what that means about what America is, and who Americans are.
That's going to take time and processing and I'm not sure how that might or should look. I just want to add that this isn't new. This is the country we've been living in for some time. The only thing that's really changed is that we can't rationally tell any other story now.
It's heartbreaking but after we grieve I think we'll have an opportunity, collectively, to come to terms with what we are, good and bad. Which is of course a vital early step in the process of change.
One thing I'd like to add to the conversation, that's been said a lot and still not nearly enough, is that the enemies here are not just bigotry, or ignorance, or extremist religion or lack of security. Perhaps the biggest reason, directly and indirectly, for Trump's second term is unchecked capitalism.
I hope that, as a whole, we'll learn from this, and focus our energy on the right demons. The ones we maybe have to deal with before we can handle the others.
And also I want to say: this is sad and it feels bleak at the moment... and this grief is shared by millions. We're not alone in this. We'll get through it.
50 votes -
2024 United States election megathread
Post any/all news and discussion related to the US Election here. If there is something substantially newsworthy, feel free to post it as a separate topic. This will be a noisy topic. Please use...
Post any/all news and discussion related to the US Election here.
If there is something substantially newsworthy, feel free to post it as a separate topic.
This will be a noisy topic. Please use the
ignore
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Election Dashboards:
97 votes -
Elections: ultimately, it’s going to be okay
I think some of you will react very poorly to this post; I understand that. I’d ask you to assume noble intent - I am not blasé about the implications of the election for transgender folks. Please...
I think some of you will react very poorly to this post; I understand that. I’d ask you to assume noble intent - I am not blasé about the implications of the election for transgender folks. Please know that I don’t blame you if you need to vent… or even catastrophize a bit. Trust me, I get it.
I get it because I am writing this, in large part, for myself. I had a pretty hard time this morning, and I’m very nervous about the implications of a second round of a Trump presidency. But the more calculating, rational part of me is saying this: ultimately, it’s mostly going to be okay.
I have spent much of my adult life living in the poorest countries in the world. Two of those countries were actively engaged in civil war when I was in them. It is hard to really convey how horrible the most desperate parts of the world can be. But more than anything, what I have taken from those experiences is hope.
For almost everybody - even people in those horrible places, going through horrible times - life goes on. People plan expensive (it’s all relative) weddings, get married, go shopping, gossip. They laugh and they cry. Mostly, life is normal.
A lot of things are about to get worse in America, and a few things will probably get better - accidentally, if nothing else. But mostly, day-to-day life is going to be okay. And so are you.
59 votes -
How California has been ‘Donald Trump-proofing’ itself against federal reprisal
40 votes -
German government coalition collapses as Olaf Scholz sacks Finance Minister Christian Lindner
35 votes -
America defeats America
44 votes -
Ezra Klein reminisces with Jon Stewart about right wing US media, social media, the rise of Donald Trump, cancel culture and where to go from here
12 votes -
Yes, elections produce stupid results. Is there an alternative?
7 votes -
Inside the plan to use AI to purge US voter rolls
13 votes -
Pennsylvania should not determine the outcome of the election
Comment box Scope: venting Tone: sad, irritated, upset Opinion: yes Sarcasm/humor: none I currently reside in Pennsylvania. The election season has been vitriolic, hateful and stressful. Even in...
Comment box
- Scope: venting
- Tone: sad, irritated, upset
- Opinion: yes
- Sarcasm/humor: none
I currently reside in Pennsylvania. The election season has been vitriolic, hateful and stressful. Even in church they are angry. They are going to fizzle out they are so mad. Even the ones who are kind are interminably irritable. I may sometimes be a partisan, utilitarian to the core, but I do not talk about politics in God's house. I will speak on justice and righteousness, but not in such terms as are popular. I would rather take that one moment in the week to see my neighbors for who they are and not the tribe they belong to. Somehow that is gone. Service on Sunday was not pleasant. You could feel the tension even as people sat listening. Even the children could feel it.
There is an election sign, or several, on every block. Every building zoned for electric screens has rotating ads (for both candidates) on it. It's all that is spoken about. One cannot escape it. It swallows you whole, spits you out again having transformed you for the worse. Have you voted? Did you hear what he said? Oh, keep quiet, that couple at the next table looks like they voted for the wrong one. Did you hear the vice president is coming to town? Horrible traffic, oh just so terrible. All the out-of-towners, coming in, you know who they support. Despicable. Do you have an election day plan? I voted early this year. That's nice. There was a sign in the next yard over. I just wanted to run it over with my car. Don't look at that man, sweetie, he is wearing boots only the wrong people would wear. The neighborhood watch got a report today. Vandalism, keys. Looking to do some election volunteering. Ballots are on fire. Did you hear? Have to go into that neighborhood, and make sure they don't vote for the wrong person. It would be so bad for them. Oh, they don't understand. Honey, bring your pepper spray, you're not safe there. You'll be shot, knifed. It's the crime, you know who they voted for. Do you know where your polling place is? I voted by mail this year. Did you hear what she said? Well, she didn't say it, but he said she said it. Let's get out of here, sweetheart, you know they voted for the wrong one, just look at the cars they drive, they don't care. Real Americans vote for the right one. All these people voting for the wrong one, so poor, so uneducated. I hate the rich. Let's get out of this bar. Go home. Back where it's safe. We can watch partisan election predictions and not be disturbed.
Nothing else has made me want to leave this state more than its unyielding power in the election. It is not democratic for six or seven states to effectively determine the winner of an election. And it is not a good experience as a resident to be given that much attention. It turns you against each other. It turns your civic and neighborly lifestyle into a caricature. It is worse that it is so all-or-nothing. The stakes are so high. Our 19 electoral votes are worth more than gold, because they only come in a package.
The Lord says
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
It is bad for many reasons. But it is only this bad because of the way our electoral system is set up pits us against each other. It does not have to be this way.
Here are my suggestions. If you are a Senator, please tell your colleagues that scroll_lock has issued a decree and make it happen. Perfection is the domain of nerds, I am simply concerned about minimizing the dominance of the two-party system and improving basic human decency.
- State Constitutional amendments mandating some variety of ranked-choice voting. I'm sure there is some mathematically optimal method. I don't care a whole lot which, as long as it is not first-past-the-post. I am less interested in the most "virtuous" system and rather the most useful one in effectively increasing the number of political parties present in an elected body.
- Federal Constitutional amendment forbidding the first-past-the-post method in elections for any federal or state office. (The states can decide how to implement the alternative. I'm not convinced there is any single best option.)
- Adoption of the National Interstate Popular Vote Compact.
- When it is inevitably ruled unconstitutional: a national Constitutional amendment requiring the allocation of electoral votes in a given state proportionally to the votes of the electorate, rather than a "winner-take-all" system.
- OR, maybe this is better done at the state level. Not important to me. The legal nerds can battle out the specifics.
- Federal Constitutional amendment not only forbidding faithless electors but invalidating the votes of any faithless elector. In other words, that "real" vote for the president in December should become a formality only.
- May as well get rid of this silly meeting while we're at it.
- Federal Constitutional amendment separating the office of president into two equal offices within the executive branch, to be elected in a staggered configuration following the same system of presidential terms we currently have, just offset:
- President 1: head of state
- President 2: head of government
- Federal Constitutional amendment forbidding so-called "independent expenditure-only committees" from collecting annually more than an amount to be designated by Congress for political purposes, from any particular entity.
- Federal law forbidding the spending of campaign funds on public political advertising more than 3 months ahead of the election.
- Federal law forbidding the spending of PAC or equivalent funds on political advertising in support of a particular candidate more than 1 month ahead of the election.
And there we go. Not going to solve every problem, but that is the worst part done with.
Godforsaken land. I am buying extra food tomorrow. Let's hope it is over and done with by the end of the week.
53 votes -
Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu dismisses his defense minister
17 votes -
British government urged to pause financial cooperation with Egypt until UK national Alaa Abd el-Fattah freed
5 votes -
How to vote rationally + Intrinsic values survey
13 votes -
USA: The nine dates that matter after election day
18 votes -
Weekly US politics news and updates thread - week of October 28
This thread is posted weekly - please try to post all relevant US political content in here, such as news, updates, opinion articles, etc. Extremely significant events may warrant a separate...
This thread is posted weekly - please try to post all relevant US political content in here, such as news, updates, opinion articles, etc. Extremely significant events may warrant a separate topic, but almost all should be posted in here.
This is an inherently political thread; please try to avoid antagonistic arguments and bickering matches. Comment threads that devolve into unproductive arguments may be removed so that the overall topic is able to continue.
26 votes -
A pregnant teenager died after trying to get care in three visits to Texas emergency rooms
81 votes -
Kalundborg in Denmark is a modern-day 'gold rush' town – but pharmaceutical giant Novo Nordisk has invested more than £6.5 billion and it still isn't booming
6 votes -
War and crisis: The impact of narratives on the militarisation of US police
5 votes -
Why I’m running for Commissioner of Agriculture in North Carolina
9 votes -
Botswana president concedes election defeat, BDP loses power after fifty-eight years
23 votes -
‘Fandom has toxified the world’: Watchmen author Alan Moore on superheroes, Comicsgate and Donald Trump
46 votes -
Russian court fines Google $20,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
57 votes -
Washington Post cancellations hit 250,000 – 10% of subscribers
81 votes -
The case against California Proposition 36
23 votes -
Lithuania’s Social Democrats defeat conservatives in parliamentary elections
23 votes -
Jeff Bezos vetoed Washington Post plan to endorse Kamala Harris, paper reports
86 votes -
Project 2025, and Why It’s Bad, a cartoon by Michael Goodwin and Dan Burr
54 votes -
The misogynistic, bigoted and crude US rally remarks Donald Trump hasn’t disavowed
56 votes -
They ran for US President. What did they learn? (original from 2004)
7 votes -
The lines at US food banks are growing longer
24 votes -
Redding property manager fired after posting on Reddit that he used ex-tenant mail-in ballots to vote for Donald Trump
52 votes -
Japan's government in flux after election gives no party majority
21 votes -
Weekly US politics news and updates thread - week of October 21
This thread is posted weekly - please try to post all relevant US political content in here, such as news, updates, opinion articles, etc. Extremely significant events may warrant a separate...
This thread is posted weekly - please try to post all relevant US political content in here, such as news, updates, opinion articles, etc. Extremely significant events may warrant a separate topic, but almost all should be posted in here.
This is an inherently political thread; please try to avoid antagonistic arguments and bickering matches. Comment threads that devolve into unproductive arguments may be removed so that the overall topic is able to continue.
19 votes -
My voter registration name keeps getting changed/misspelled. Should I complain to the state or my county clerk?
I have a slightly unusual last name, leading to people assuming they know how to spell it better than I do. I have already fixed my registered name once this year and I just received a new voter...
I have a slightly unusual last name, leading to people assuming they know how to spell it better than I do. I have already fixed my registered name once this year and I just received a new voter registration card...and it had the old spelling. I checked my registration online and the spelling has reverted in the state database too. Whose fault is this and WHY THE HELL DO PEOPLE MANUALLY ENTER/EDIT NAMES THAT USERS ENTER INTO COMPUTER SYSTEMS? WHY IS THIS A THING?? WHY DO I GET SO MUCH MAIL WITH MY NAME MISSPELLED??? JUST SPELL IT THE WAY I ENTERED IT INTO YOUR SYSTEM, YOU JACKASSES.
41 votes -
US Senate investigation into Medicare and Medicaid insurance providers finds they are using "AI" to deny care
35 votes -
Elon Musk has been in regular contact with Vladimir Putin
65 votes -
How ‘snowflake babies’ could change IVF politics
18 votes -
US Consumer Financial Protection Bureau draws bipartisan support for new rule protecting financial data privacy
15 votes -
Lee Hsien Yang, youngest son of Singapore founder, claims asylum in the UK
15 votes -
Amazon in case in front of US National Labor Relations Board over union busting tactics
27 votes -
The Electoral College is bad
49 votes -
Moldova narrowly votes to secure path toward EU membership after accusing Russia of interference
46 votes -
How elderly dementia patients are unwittingly fueling political campaigns
22 votes -
Devin James Stone (Legal Eagle) presents his legal reasoning for public endorsing Kamala Harris
32 votes -
Weekly US politics news and updates thread - week of October 14
This thread is posted weekly - please try to post all relevant US political content in here, such as news, updates, opinion articles, etc. Extremely significant events may warrant a separate...
This thread is posted weekly - please try to post all relevant US political content in here, such as news, updates, opinion articles, etc. Extremely significant events may warrant a separate topic, but almost all should be posted in here.
This is an inherently political thread; please try to avoid antagonistic arguments and bickering matches. Comment threads that devolve into unproductive arguments may be removed so that the overall topic is able to continue.
13 votes