26 votes

Weekly US politics news and updates thread - week of October 28

This thread is posted weekly - please try to post all relevant US political content in here, such as news, updates, opinion articles, etc. Extremely significant events may warrant a separate topic, but almost all should be posted in here.

This is an inherently political thread; please try to avoid antagonistic arguments and bickering matches. Comment threads that devolve into unproductive arguments may be removed so that the overall topic is able to continue.

60 comments

  1. [19]
    DefinitelyNotAFae
    Link
    'Washington Post' flooded by cancellations after Bezos' non-endorsement decision 200,000 cancellations by midday today, an 8% drop.
    17 votes
    1. [14]
      DefinitelyNotAFae
      Link Parent
      Washington Post social media calls out Jeff Bezos... which is wild (Tiktok)
      6 votes
      1. [10]
        Halfloaf
        Link Parent
        In a wild series of events, WaPo has lost 200,000 subscribers. Then, Jeff Besos himself wrote an opinion piece. It’s titled “The Hard Truth: Americans don’t trust the news media” (wow) This...

        In a wild series of events, WaPo has lost 200,000 subscribers.

        Then, Jeff Besos himself wrote an opinion piece. It’s titled “The Hard Truth: Americans don’t trust the news media” (wow)

        This morning, a piece covers that choice.

        Edit: whoops - missed that the first link was about the drop of subscribers. Sorry, it’s been a lot this last week.

        5 votes
        1. [8]
          psi
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          From Jeff Bezos: In a single paragraph, Bezos managed to say that he was right twice (without evidence) while simultaneously making an absolutist claim about what Pennsylvanians think. Personally...

          From Jeff Bezos:

          Presidential endorsements do nothing to tip the scales of an election. No undecided voters in Pennsylvania are going to say, “I’m going with Newspaper A’s endorsement.” None. What presidential endorsements actually do is create a perception of bias. A perception of non-independence. Ending them is a principled decision, and it’s the right one. Eugene Meyer, publisher of The Washington Post from 1933 to 1946, thought the same, and he was right. By itself, declining to endorse presidential candidates is not enough to move us very far up the trust scale, but it’s a meaningful step in the right direction. I wish we had made the change earlier than we did, in a moment further from the election and the emotions around it. That was inadequate planning, and not some intentional strategy.

          In a single paragraph, Bezos managed to say that he was right twice (without evidence) while simultaneously making an absolutist claim about what Pennsylvanians think. Personally I found the rest of the piece equally uncompelling, with him offering more of a vibes-based argument than any sort factual analysis. (The closest we get is "[unlike today] in the 1990s we achieved 80 percent household penetration in the D.C. metro area" and implying the reason is because the news is too partisan. Besides the fact that this is obviously not the reason -- the decline of journalism correlates strongly with the rise of free alternatives on the internet -- Bezos certainly knows better, from which we can only conclude that he is being dishonest. )

          I'm reminded of this article from The Atlantic back in August, which dealt with Musk's interview of Trump but could be said about billionaires more generally:

          And yet, Musk might have been telling the truth about the conversation in some way. It did offer a glimpse into something real and illuminating: In eschewing the adversarial interview, Musk and Trump may have recreated the kind of behind-closed-doors conversation that is all too common among certain types of billionaires and other elites. What is remarkable about these conversations isn’t the subject matter itself, but how vapid, predictable, and sycophantic the back and forth becomes.

          [...] Every few minutes, one of the men paused to compliment the other. “Congratulations. This is great. You're an interesting character[.]” [...] As the evening progressed, both parties repeatedly mentioned how important their conversation was. [...]
          [...]
          Both the Musk texts [from his Twitter lawsuit] and Monday’s Trump conversation operate in the same detached, self-congratulatory sphere. They feature the ramblings of men who are insulated and detached from the realities of many average citizens. They’re radicalized and captured by their own audiences. In Musk’s texts, you can see powerful people—venture capitalists, corporate board members, media executives—fawning over the billionaire in order to curry favor; in Monday’s conversation, the dynamic was reversed, with Musk playing the yes man and, at one point, angling for a role in a hypothetical Trump administration to help rein in federal spending.

          In both circumstances, we were given a front-row seat to see the way power cozies up to power. The true revelation here isn’t that these men are especially conniving or even cunning: It’s that they are boring and more likely to regurgitate Fox News talking points than offer genuine insight.

          10 votes
          1. [7]
            streblo
            Link Parent
            It's definitely an assertion lacking evidence, but I think without any evidence one way or another I'm inclined to agree he's probably correct.

            In a single paragraph, Bezos managed to say that he was right twice (without evidence) while simultaneously making an absolutist claim about what Pennsylvanians think.

            It's definitely an assertion lacking evidence, but I think without any evidence one way or another I'm inclined to agree he's probably correct.

            4 votes
            1. [5]
              psi
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              I'm not so sure. According to this article [1] about 3% of PA's electorate is undecided. As there were about 7 million votes cast for the Presidential election in 2020 [2], that puts us at roughly...

              I'm not so sure. According to this article [1] about 3% of PA's electorate is undecided. As there were about 7 million votes cast for the Presidential election in 2020 [2], that puts us at roughly 200 thousand undecided voters in PA. It is certainly conceivable that at least one of those voters would consider newpaper endorsements when making their choice; I would definitely not feel comfortable making an absolutist claim like Bezos did.

              Now you might object that I'm just being pedantic -- I also doubt that The Washington Post's endorsement would have tipped the election. But I raise the point to emphasize how sloppy Bezos's logic is. He claims that his decision is more "principled" than The Post's prior position, but mostly he just expects us to take us at his word. He claims that Presidential endorsements are harmful to The Post's financials, but he provides no evidence for the claim. Bezos believes that partisanship is harmful to journalism, but then he barely grapples with the impact of his own meddling in the newsroom.

              Insofar that there is evidence that The Post's partisan bias impacts its financials, the evidence points the other way -- hundreds of thousands of people have since unsubscribed because of Bezos's actions. Personally I don't mind if the Washington Post is a little biased; all media are a little biased. However, for journalism to be effective it must remain independent [3] -- and Bezos has single-handedly undermined that core tenet of journalism.


              1. "About 3% of Pennsylvania voters are still undecided. Here’s what we know about the group that could swing the race." The Philadelphia Inquier.
              2. "United States presidential elections in Pennsylvania." Wikipedia.
              3. "Independent Media." Wikipedia.
              8 votes
              1. [4]
                streblo
                Link Parent
                You make some good points and to be clear I don’t agree with Bezos’s decision or his rationale. But I do think he’s right in the sense that newspaper endorsements aren’t what they were 20 years...

                You make some good points and to be clear I don’t agree with Bezos’s decision or his rationale.

                But I do think he’s right in the sense that newspaper endorsements aren’t what they were 20 years ago. I don’t believe that they literally don’t move the needle at all, but I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that, in this media environment, their effects are probably negligible.

                The thing Bezos is getting wrong is the idea that just by being “objective” the traditional media can reclaim its trust. I think that ship has sailed and there’s no reason to withhold an endorsement in pursuit of a fruitless goal.

                8 votes
                1. psi
                  Link Parent
                  Yeah, in a vacuum Presidential endorsements are pretty weird (as @V17 also mentioned). But the larger issue in my opinion is (1) the meddling and (2) the timing. If Bezos had demanded that The...

                  Yeah, in a vacuum Presidential endorsements are pretty weird (as @V17 also mentioned). But the larger issue in my opinion is (1) the meddling and (2) the timing. If Bezos had demanded that The Post stop endorsing from 2028 onward, I would still think that inappropriate (I don't think Bezos should be making any newsrooms decisions) but at least you couldn't argue that his decision was to the benefit of a particular candidate.

                  However, by making the decision after the piece had been written, Bezos created an appearance of bias much more problematic than the partisan bias he attempted to restrain, which as you mentioned was probably a pointless endeavor anyway.

                  9 votes
                2. [2]
                  MrFahrenheit
                  Link Parent
                  A few things I'd be concerned with: why now? If one of the most significant national newspapers is going to end its longstanding pattern of endorsements, they could not have picked worse timing...

                  A few things I'd be concerned with: why now? If one of the most significant national newspapers is going to end its longstanding pattern of endorsements, they could not have picked worse timing (or better, if you're a fascist). This is the sort of thing you roll out during the midterms, not a week or two ahead of an incredibly consequential presidential election. The absence of an endorsement, especially a no-brainer like Harris over trump, is a victory for trump.

                  And with the rationale employed, why even have an editorial section at all?

                  5 votes
                  1. DefinitelyNotAFae
                    Link Parent
                    At first I was going to say don't give him ideas about elimitating the editorial section. But then where would he post his defenses of his own actions as the billionaire owner of the newspaper he...

                    At first I was going to say don't give him ideas about elimitating the editorial section. But then where would he post his defenses of his own actions as the billionaire owner of the newspaper he shouldn't be interfering with?

                    He has already interfered with the editorial opinions. Can you restore trust in those? I don't know

                    2 votes
            2. rosco
              Link Parent
              Out of curiosity, does anyone in your inner circle - good friends or family - get their information from daily news papers? My dad does and it's always interesting when we talk about California...

              Out of curiosity, does anyone in your inner circle - good friends or family - get their information from daily news papers? My dad does and it's always interesting when we talk about California propositions I'll find that he is often parroting things he has heard in the local paper - one that is "progressive" in terms of social liberty (as long as it in no way impedes property rights) but is incredibly financially conservative. When I start poking around he'll usually end up admitting he read about in the paper and saw the endorsement. If he indulges me and we run through the actual ballot measure together he'll usually change his mind (the local paper voting guide is usually opposite to my own selection). So in his case the endorsements of the paper carry a lot of weight. I can imagine that if he was on the fence in this election it would push him over the edge.

              5 votes
      2. [3]
        elcuello
        Link Parent
        Is it just me or does the video only play if you're on the tab? It's infuriating.

        Is it just me or does the video only play if you're on the tab? It's infuriating.

        1. [2]
          DefinitelyNotAFae
          Link Parent
          Uh I've never tabbed away from a Tiktok I guess since they're not long. I also have the app so I watch there generally. I don't have a mirror handy

          Uh I've never tabbed away from a Tiktok I guess since they're not long. I also have the app so I watch there generally. I don't have a mirror handy

          1. elcuello
            Link Parent
            No worries I saw the clip it was just an annoyance on the laptop

            No worries I saw the clip it was just an annoyance on the laptop

    2. [2]
      V17
      Link Parent
      As an outsider it's still crazy to me how normalized and here obviously even demanded it is for US media to endorse their candidates. Where I'm from this is viewed as unacceptable, journalists are...

      As an outsider it's still crazy to me how normalized and here obviously even demanded it is for US media to endorse their candidates.

      Where I'm from this is viewed as unacceptable, journalists are expected to officially at least pretend to be impartial and comment, not explicitly endorse. The closest we got to open endorsement was in the last presidential election, when the biggest tabloid paper decided to sell a full frontpage (envelope) advert to the team of one of the candidates (who ultimately won), probably for a low price in a secret deal, but it was still explicitly a purchased ad space not officially endorsed by the owners for plausible deniability. It was unprecedented and possibly only done because the other candidate is a populist oligarch who owned several newspapers and has been using them for "covert" political advertisement, Orbán style, for years.

      4 votes
      1. DefinitelyNotAFae
        Link Parent
        Yeah I think if the norm had been different here I'd have a different opinion. There's a difference between the journalists and the editorial board/opinion writers though. Many journalists,...

        Yeah I think if the norm had been different here I'd have a different opinion. There's a difference between the journalists and the editorial board/opinion writers though. Many journalists, especially those on the political beat, do not disclose their personal political leanings including not voting in primaries for that reason. And I think that does make sense. It's more the institution of the paper that is doing the endorsement.

        Again I get this is not the norm elsewhere, but my opinion is definitely based in this paradigm.

        5 votes
    3. [2]
      Eji1700
      Link Parent
      Sadly irrelevant I suspect. He's gotten what he's wanted out of this.

      Sadly irrelevant I suspect. He's gotten what he's wanted out of this.

      1. DefinitelyNotAFae
        Link Parent
        I mean it's a drop in Bezos' personal wealth bucket but it sends a message

        I mean it's a drop in Bezos' personal wealth bucket but it sends a message

        3 votes
  2. [3]
    Kind_of_Ben
    Link
    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's message to supporters this evening: Wanted to share since my (liberal) dad has been saying "it is a guaranteed fact that Trump will be the next president" and I'm...

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's message to supporters this evening:

    We live in a constant state of injustice. We are always struggling against systems of mass incarceration, of extreme income inequality, of late stage capitalism. Those conditions do exist.

    But one thing that I think is important is that we must mobilize for an affirmative vision for this country — we can’t just mobilize on fear.

    We need to be clear about what the stakes are. We do. But I don’t believe in a ‘fear only’ approach.

    . . .

    We can’t give up. I’ve been in that place when I was a waitress. I did spend some time giving up and being cynical and saying, “F*ck this.”

    And you know what it got us? Nothing. Depression, cynicism, and a sense of purposelessness. Giving up is a privilege that people just can’t afford.

    Movements wax and wane. And there are times when it feels like our power is waning, and it’s really easy to take our ball and go home. But the strength of a movement really depends on the durability of it, and the commitment to it.

    That black pill of cynicism is the death of movements, not the birth of them.

    In solidarity,

    Alexandria

    Wanted to share since my (liberal) dad has been saying "it is a guaranteed fact that Trump will be the next president" and I'm feeling pretty defeated. This helped with that somewhat and I hope it does for anyone else who's feeling similarly.

    13 votes
    1. nukeman
      Link Parent
      AOC’s take relates to the one I have on dooming: while politically literate doomers may still vote, volunteer, and work to affect change; average people who come into contact with doomerism and...

      AOC’s take relates to the one I have on dooming: while politically literate doomers may still vote, volunteer, and work to affect change; average people who come into contact with doomerism and get swept up into it are much more likely to shrug and say “why bother”. It’s not the initial person doing the dooming, it’s the ripple effect you see of other folks dooming and then checking out.

      11 votes
    2. boxer_dogs_dance
      Link Parent
      Remember valley forge and the first two years of the civil war. Since the Madison square garden rally I have felt pretty confident. The Puerto Rican voters are strategically located in...

      Remember valley forge and the first two years of the civil war.

      Since the Madison square garden rally I have felt pretty confident. The Puerto Rican voters are strategically located in Pennsylvania.

      But if we lose we move to doing what is needed then

      4 votes
  3. [4]
    boxer_dogs_dance
    Link
    Celebrities and politicians react to Trump rally comedian diss of Puerto Rico, Latinos, Jews and black Americans
    9 votes
    1. [3]
      Omnicrola
      Link Parent
      Related - the Madison Square Garden rally where the "jokes" about Puerto Rico where made, along with a pile of other racist crap : (NPR) Off-color jokes, vitriol take over Trump Madison Square...

      Related - the Madison Square Garden rally where the "jokes" about Puerto Rico where made, along with a pile of other racist crap : (NPR) Off-color jokes, vitriol take over Trump Madison Square Garden rally

      The Trump campaign also distanced itself from Hinchliffe's remarks.

      "This joke does not reflect the views of President Trump or the campaign," Danielle Alvarez, a senior adviser to the Trump campaign, said in a statement.

      How far off the rails does someone have to go for the Trump campaign (but not Trump himself, of course) to distance themselves from you? This far, apparently.

      Carlson went beyond insults, nodding to the racist “great replacement theory” he has espoused in the past.

      That sentiment was echoed later, when former Trump White House aide Stephen Miller told the crowd: “America is for Americans and Americans only.”

      Do they hear themselves? Do they understand who they sound like?

      9 votes
      1. [2]
        boxer_dogs_dance
        Link Parent
        The comedian and other presentations were on a teleprompter. The content was absolutely seen ahead of time. And yes these are loud and proud fascists

        The comedian and other presentations were on a teleprompter. The content was absolutely seen ahead of time.

        And yes these are loud and proud fascists

        11 votes
        1. gpl
          Link Parent
          Loud and proud. This is rhetoric that is not very different than what has been spewed at Trump rallies throughout the campaign. However, this particular instance has the potential to break through...

          Loud and proud. This is rhetoric that is not very different than what has been spewed at Trump rallies throughout the campaign. However, this particular instance has the potential to break through because a) it is one week before the election, and will be on the minds of low-information or low-propensity voters as they head to the polls in a way it wouldn't have been if it happened a month ago and b) this happened in MSG in NYC, the backyard of a lot of legacy media. Might be harder to ignore/rationalize by the media when it wasn't in rural PA. Already I have seen multiple outlets denouncing this as explicitly racist as opposed to using the usual euphemisms — racially tinged, off-color, etc.

          9 votes
  4. [5]
    boxer_dogs_dance
    Link
    Shocking Iowa poll from pollster with excellent long term record has Harris up by three points
    9 votes
    1. [4]
      nukeman
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Pardon my language, but this is a big fucking deal. In 2016, the final Selzer poll had Trump at +7 (when others had Iowa as a tossup), he won by 9.4. In 2020, she had him up +7 again, he won by...

      Pardon my language, but this is a big fucking deal. In 2016, the final Selzer poll had Trump at +7 (when others had Iowa as a tossup), he won by 9.4. In 2020, she had him up +7 again, he won by 8.2. Even if she’s off by her worst presidential error (2008, Obama won +10 versus predicted +17), we are still talking about a significant underperformance for Trump. One needs to be careful when extrapolating to other states (Iowa is very rural and very white), but this suggests good news for Harris in the Midwest, even if she doesn’t win Iowa. She’s also used a relatively minimalist methodology of making fewer assumptions (unlike other pollsters) like what she did in 2020 and 2016.

      10 votes
      1. [3]
        skybrian
        Link Parent
        Even if you knew for certain who would win a few days in advance, what could you do? I guess you could make money on prediction markets, but other than that, it doesn't seem like there's a whole...

        Even if you knew for certain who would win a few days in advance, what could you do? I guess you could make money on prediction markets, but other than that, it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot to be done about it.

        1 vote
        1. nukeman
          Link Parent
          I’m not sure how much recent internal polling the Harris campaign has done in non-swing states, but if there hasn’t been much, and there’s enough funds, I’d put out a last minute blitz in Texas,...

          I’m not sure how much recent internal polling the Harris campaign has done in non-swing states, but if there hasn’t been much, and there’s enough funds, I’d put out a last minute blitz in Texas, Florida, and Ohio; along with less likely states such as Kansas, Alaska, South Carolina, and Nebraska.

          1 vote
        2. GenuinelyCrooked
          Link Parent
          For me it's just a matter of anxiety levels.

          For me it's just a matter of anxiety levels.

          4 votes
  5. [3]
    boxer_dogs_dance
    Link
    how each of the seven swing states would handle a recount
    5 votes
    1. [2]
      KapteinB
      Link Parent
      Expect recounts in basically every Pennsylvania precinct if Trump loses the state. It wouldn't be hard for his campaign to find 3 cultists in each precinct who believe his lies about widespread fraud.

      Pennsylvania

      The state automatically triggers a recount if the margin between two candidates is within 0.5%. But three voters can also request a recount in a specific precinct if they allege there was fraud or an error in that precinct.

      Expect recounts in basically every Pennsylvania precinct if Trump loses the state. It wouldn't be hard for his campaign to find 3 cultists in each precinct who believe his lies about widespread fraud.

      11 votes
      1. FrankGrimes
        Link Parent
        I agree that's likely what will happen. I can't find if there's repercussions for lying about alleged fraud, or if those people need actual evidence that gets reviewed by a court? Or is it as...

        I agree that's likely what will happen. I can't find if there's repercussions for lying about alleged fraud, or if those people need actual evidence that gets reviewed by a court? Or is it as simple as a few people just proclaim they think there was fraud, and that triggers a recount? If it's the latter, that seems like a shockingly low bar.

        2 votes
  6. [2]
    hungariantoast
    Link
    ‘A once-in-a-generation change’: Portland, Oregon, prepares for monumental overhaul of city government
    3 votes
    1. EgoEimi
      Link Parent
      That makes sense: management-by-committee is hell in private organizations; I imagine that at the municipal level, it's similarly dysfunctional and difficult to find alignment.

      ince 1913, Portland has used a commission form of government. The commission consisted of five people elected citywide and who were responsible for passing policies and also acting as administrators in charge of city departments.

      The system was briefly popular in other major US cities, but then largely abandoned, said Richard Clucas, a political science professor at Portland State University.

      “Most cities who adopted that form of government realized there were problems with it,” he said. “Someone may be good as a legislator but it doesn’t make them good as an administrator.”

      That makes sense: management-by-committee is hell in private organizations; I imagine that at the municipal level, it's similarly dysfunctional and difficult to find alignment.

      4 votes
  7. [4]
    NoPants
    Link
    Three Trump Judges Just Issued a Shock Ruling That Could Wreak Havoc on the Election
    2 votes
    1. [3]
      heraplem
      Link Parent
      Slight clickbait, because the ruling (for now) only applies to Mississippi, which is not in contention. But scary for the future, especially as someone who lives in a location where voting by mail...

      Slight clickbait, because the ruling (for now) only applies to Mississippi, which is not in contention. But scary for the future, especially as someone who lives in a location where voting by mail is the rule rather than the exception.

      9 votes
      1. NoPants
        Link Parent
        It is shocking giving the timing. Judicial precedent says you don't make changes 90 days ahead of an election. Purcell v. Gonzalez (2006) It could wreck havoc in future elections These judicial...

        It is shocking giving the timing.

        throwing the legality of its voting procedures into question just 11 days before the election

        Judicial precedent says you don't make changes 90 days ahead of an election. Purcell v. Gonzalez (2006)

        It is surely too close to the election to change the rules of the game under the Supreme Court’s Purcell principle

        It could wreck havoc in future elections

        But the 5th Circuit has now created a vehicle for the justices to visit this issue after the election and potentially strike down nearly 20 states’ laws, making voting exponentially harder in the future.

        These judicial precedents have stood the test of time for centuries.

        States have counted late-arriving absentee ballots for more than a century, and federal courts have never stopped them from doing so (until now).

        Every time the hammer blows away these judicial precedents, they favor only one party.

        Republicans believe that these ballots are disproportionately likely to support Democrats

        This is part of the long game that tilts the election scales in one parties favor (Citizens United v FEC, Shelby County v Holder, Brnovich v DNC)

        The court’s obvious goal, aside from destabilizing a close election, is to tee up a Supreme Court decision that could wipe out all these laws in one fell swoop.

        Yet the long game also works as a short game if the election is close enough

        (Bush v Gore which was initially bullshit per curiam but became even more bullshit stare decisis because it continued to favor one party)

        2 votes
      2. chocobean
        Link Parent
        That does sound kind of click baity -- honestly unless he's going to jail and can't actually run there's not really much point looking at news for the next week

        That does sound kind of click baity -- honestly unless he's going to jail and can't actually run there's not really much point looking at news for the next week

  8. [5]
    boxer_dogs_dance
    Link
    Two newbies to political advertising use porn sites to host anti Trump ads
    2 votes
    1. [4]
      DefinitelyNotAFae
      Link Parent
      To be clear this was a specific, and IMO well thought out, strategy not a new guy mistake.

      To be clear this was a specific, and IMO well thought out, strategy not a new guy mistake.

      3 votes
      1. [2]
        EgoEimi
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I feel that it'd backfire. There are many people who watch porn who feel ashamed that they do and wish they didn't and couldn't. edit: anecdote: my queer SF friends are very pro-porn, pro-sex...

        I feel that it'd backfire. There are many people who watch porn who feel ashamed that they do and wish they didn't and couldn't.

        edit: anecdote:

        • my queer SF friends are very pro-porn, pro-sex work, some of theme actively doing porn content creation or sex work. But... I fear that their views are in the minority in America.
        • when my normie friends—who I feel are representative of the average American—tell me they watch porn, it's always with a hushed tone of shame and wishing they had a partner or that their sex life with their current partner were better, and they feel regretful that porn is so easily accessible.
          • or that they wish their partner didn't watch so much porn and they feel that porn causes issues in their relationship and wish that porn could just... go away.

        From the data I can find online, the number of Americans who feel strongly pro-porn is in the single digit %; the rest feel there should be regulation to lesser or greater degree.

        I feel that very few voters will be motivated to get out to vote for Harris to keep porn; but there will be more than a few who will feel energized by the promise of a porn ban.

        2 votes
        1. DefinitelyNotAFae
          Link Parent
          It might have, but it'll be hard to measure if it did. However as the article says this was carefully targeted, I'd imagine they aimed for sites and categories of porn less commonly supported by...

          It might have, but it'll be hard to measure if it did.

          However as the article says this was carefully targeted, I'd imagine they aimed for sites and categories of porn less commonly supported by people who are pro sex-work nor . And if you aim it at those young men (especially college age) who might feel swayed by the toxic masculinity, you might catch someone willing to be swayed back away from it by conservative Christian values.

          1 vote
      2. boxer_dogs_dance
        Link Parent
        Oh yes. It was IMHO strategic and clever.

        Oh yes. It was IMHO strategic and clever.

        1 vote
  9. [3]
    boxer_dogs_dance
    Link
    Elon musk tells voters to be ready for hardship
    1 vote
    1. [2]
      PelagiusSeptim
      Link Parent
      Don't know how much this will actually matter, but seems a bad approach on his part. With how myopically most voters seem to look at the economy, and his personal willingness to lie in service of...

      Don't know how much this will actually matter, but seems a bad approach on his part. With how myopically most voters seem to look at the economy, and his personal willingness to lie in service of getting trump elected, why admit that there would be any hardship down the line?

      1 vote
      1. boxer_dogs_dance
        Link Parent
        Best case scenario, this is Elon being reckless because that's what Elon does.

        Best case scenario, this is Elon being reckless because that's what Elon does.

        3 votes