20 votes

What are people’s thoughts on Edward Snowden?

So what are your thoughts on him do you like him dislike him what do you think about the things he says and what he does

30 comments

  1. [2]
    thundergolfer
    Link
    To be honest this is totally beside the point. I've been in too many conversations about Snowden or Assange that have become swamped in triviality about whether they're cool or slimy or arrogant...

    do you like him dislike him

    To be honest this is totally beside the point. I've been in too many conversations about Snowden or Assange that have become swamped in triviality about whether they're cool or slimy or arrogant or whatever, and thus sidelined the actually important discussion about the revelations they revealed to the public.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there has been a deliberate attempt to make discussions about Snowden a personality thing.

    The information he revealed to the world was hugely valuable, and he ought to be celebrated. Hack right-wing pundits have often transmuted the nature of his act from one of selflessness and sacrifice to one of grandstanding and narcissism. A nice reposte to that is this paraphrased quote:

    Some people are so unprincipled that they've lost the ability to recognise principle and integrity in others.

    27 votes
    1. Five
      Link Parent
      I don’t think it’s beside the point for a couple of reasons people usually get an opinion on someone very quickly and decide if they like or dislike them and people use a couple of things to...

      I don’t think it’s beside the point for a couple of reasons people usually get an opinion on someone very quickly and decide if they like or dislike them and people use a couple of things to decide this what the person has done and how they act and come across

  2. [16]
    Keegan
    Link
    I think he did the right thing. Blindly spying on all citizens is very much something that should be outed to the public. Also, he recently went on Joe Rogan Experience:...

    I think he did the right thing. Blindly spying on all citizens is very much something that should be outed to the public.

    Also, he recently went on Joe Rogan Experience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efs3QRr8LWw

    26 votes
    1. [2]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. Keegan
        Link Parent
        I've only watched a few of his podcasts, and this one stood out to me as well. A lot of his fans were mentioning that Joe was silent on Reddit too. And yeah Snowden did say some powerful stuff. I...

        I've only watched a few of his podcasts, and this one stood out to me as well. A lot of his fans were mentioning that Joe was silent on Reddit too.

        And yeah Snowden did say some powerful stuff. I want to get his book as well, preferably in paperback, but he doesn't get any of the money from it due to legal stuff AFAIK.

        2 votes
    2. [14]
      monarda
      Link Parent
      I started watching this and realize I don't have the time to do it in a sitting. but it sounds super interesting!. Do you, or anyone reading this, know how I can download this on my phone to...

      I started watching this and realize I don't have the time to do it in a sitting. but it sounds super interesting!. Do you, or anyone reading this, know how I can download this on my phone to listen to as I have time? I have no data plan, but spend a good amount of time commuting and would love to listen to this while doing so.

      3 votes
      1. [3]
        Icarus
        Link Parent
        Using a podcast app on your phone, you should be able to search for "Joe Rogan Experience" and it will be the top result. Select it and there will usually be an option somewhere to download it to...

        Using a podcast app on your phone, you should be able to search for "Joe Rogan Experience" and it will be the top result. Select it and there will usually be an option somewhere to download it to your device. I use podcast addict on Android and find it respectable. If you can find it on Spotify, that would probably be an easier user experience.

        7 votes
      2. [10]
        Keegan
        Link Parent
        If you have Android, you can get an app like YouTube Vanced for what is essentially YouTube Premium for free, or download NewPipe, which is open source, and has a much lighter app. If you are on...

        If you have Android, you can get an app like YouTube Vanced for what is essentially YouTube Premium for free, or download NewPipe, which is open source, and has a much lighter app.

        If you are on iOS, I am 99% sure you can download the podcast from Apple Podcasts, but I'm not positive and it may be audio-only.

        If neither of these options work for you, PM me and I will send a link to an MP4 of it that you can download.

        2 votes
        1. [9]
          monarda
          Link Parent
          I didn't know it was a podcast that I could download. Icarus pointed it out, and I downloaded it on my phone. Another question: For some reason I had it in my head that Joe Rogan wasn't someone I...

          I didn't know it was a podcast that I could download. Icarus pointed it out, and I downloaded it on my phone.

          Another question: For some reason I had it in my head that Joe Rogan wasn't someone I wanted to listen to. I don't know why anymore. I listened to his Bernie Sanders video and wondered why the heck isn't there more things like this. Do you know why Joe might have a negative connotation in my mind?

          4 votes
          1. [3]
            huh
            Link Parent
            He's had on a lot of alt right guests and doesn't really challenge them, just gives them a platform. I don't think he's a bad person or anything, just a bit of a pseudo intellectual. I started...

            He's had on a lot of alt right guests and doesn't really challenge them, just gives them a platform. I don't think he's a bad person or anything, just a bit of a pseudo intellectual. I started listening to the podcasts a while ago but got put off when he had on some "alternative history" type of guy and a skeptic (an actual skeptic, not the climate change "skeptic"/conspiratorial usage of the word). They were talking about "unknown" previous civilisations before hunter gatherers that were a lot more advanced than we currently are. Joe basically teamed up with this alternative history guy and spent the entire time laying into the skeptic for saying that we don't really have any evidence of that. Joe said he was "muddying the waters" and that that's just what skeptics do. lol. he has some good episodes though, depends on the guest.

            6 votes
            1. [2]
              CALICO
              Link Parent
              Graham Hancock goes far in a few places, but some of what he's been proposing is being backed up with new evidence; the LIDAR maps of the Amazon revealing remains of cities, and evidence of an...

              Graham Hancock goes far in a few places, but some of what he's been proposing is being backed up with new evidence; the LIDAR maps of the Amazon revealing remains of cities, and evidence of an impact crater beneath the Greenland Ice Sheet are the two that immediately come to mind.

              I think Graham has ideas worth throwing away, ideas worth considering, and fields of science are too hostile to new ideas—not to suggest that we ought to believe anything and everything without evidence, only that if we stay too close minded we may miss something important by never considering or looking for it.

              2 votes
              1. huh
                Link Parent
                Yea, i knew there was some truth to it, and i don't even mind it when people get a bit fantastical/theoretical when discussing that sort of thing, but purely in relation to joe's technique as a...

                Yea, i knew there was some truth to it, and i don't even mind it when people get a bit fantastical/theoretical when discussing that sort of thing, but purely in relation to joe's technique as a host, he was being completely unreasonable to the skeptic. The skeptic was saying that yea it's an interesting possibility but you can't really come to any decisive conclusions just based on those theories because they lack evidence. I haven't really watched enough of his podcasts but that was the hardest i've ever seen him come down on anyone he's had on his show. rubbed me in the wrong way.

                1 vote
          2. Keegan
            Link Parent
            Ah okay. Maybe he has a bad connation due to the episode with Elon Musk where Elon smokes weed? More likely due to the episode with Alex Jones, though.

            Ah okay.

            Maybe he has a bad connation due to the episode with Elon Musk where Elon smokes weed? More likely due to the episode with Alex Jones, though.

            1 vote
          3. [4]
            eladnarra
            Link Parent
            I'd never heard of him before today, but I just came across his name on Twitter in a discussion about a trans girl who was the center of a custody battle. It sounds like he's transphobic.

            I'd never heard of him before today, but I just came across his name on Twitter in a discussion about a trans girl who was the center of a custody battle. It sounds like he's transphobic.

            1 vote
            1. [3]
              Amarok
              Link Parent
              Does it?
              4 votes
              1. eladnarra
                Link Parent
                From what I read, it sounded like he was siding with the father. Based on the facts of the custody case that seems transphobic to me. @monarda is free to look into it (or not) and decide for...

                From what I read, it sounded like he was siding with the father. Based on the facts of the custody case that seems transphobic to me.

                @monarda is free to look into it (or not) and decide for themselves. I was only offering a possible reason they may have heard bad things about him.

                1 vote
              2. cfabbro
                (edited )
                Link Parent
                While I don't think that Joe holds any genuine hatred towards transgender people, he definitely has some oldschool notions about gender, and is incredibly ignorant about transgender issues (yet...

                While I don't think that Joe holds any genuine hatred towards transgender people, he definitely has some oldschool notions about gender, and is incredibly ignorant about transgender issues (yet still chooses to opine about them semi-regularly). He has also only ever had one transgender guest on the show that I am aware of (Buck Angel), whereas he has hosted plenty of incredibly transphobic ones (e.g. Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, etc). So while I wouldn't say Joe is transphobic, he is not exactly in the clear on this either IMO, especially since he very rarely challenges anything those transphobic guests say about the topic.

                p.s. And as you might already know, this is coming from a massive Joe Rogan fan and longtime JRE listener. I just really wish, at the very least, he would have more transgender people and/or trans rights activists on the show (e.g. Sarah McBride), to educate him and help counterbalance all the misconceptions, lies, FUD and hate he has allowed to be spread via his platform.

                1 vote
  3. user2
    Link
    I think he's an absolute hero. He is the type of person who is very principled and did what his ethical compass told him to do, regardless of the disadvantages of it to his own personal life. I am...

    I think he's an absolute hero. He is the type of person who is very principled and did what his ethical compass told him to do, regardless of the disadvantages of it to his own personal life.

    I am very grateful for what he revealed and have since changed my online habits. I've been getting complacent these last few months though, need to step up my game.

    9 votes
  4. DanBC
    Link
    I'm confused that people say he revealed anything: we already knew all of it anyway. I'm confused when people say that now everyone knows how extensive state surveillance is (most people don't...

    I'm confused that people say he revealed anything: we already knew all of it anyway. I'm confused when people say that now everyone knows how extensive state surveillance is (most people don't know and many people don't care, and almost no-one knows the true extent). I guess people are ignorant of history[1].

    He did somewhat publicise state surveillance, and some of it made its way into popular culture (The Good Wife / The Good Fight plotlines, for example) but some of that was worryingly inaccurate.

    [1] state postal services were created in order to spy on communications; ECHELON was reasonably well known about and there were reports by EU Parliament about it; in the UK the aim to get a secret service informant on every street was known, but not by many people.

    5 votes
  5. Arshan
    Link
    I believe he was put into an incredibly difficult position and that he made one of the better possible decisions. I personally have no patience for the "but now were less safe" argument. If...

    I believe he was put into an incredibly difficult position and that he made one of the better possible decisions. I personally have no patience for the "but now were less safe" argument. If intelligence agencies NEED the level access they had/have to protect against <insert boogeyman>, why don't they take more control, so we can be even safer? And since Snowden's whistleblowing, I haven't heard any specific incidents that occurred that could have been prevented if Snowden kept quiet.

    5 votes
  6. [3]
    Five
    Link
    On a side note after posting this my internet crashed lol I think that says something

    On a side note after posting this my internet crashed lol I think that says something

    4 votes
    1. [2]
      bhrgunatha
      Link Parent
      There's a great part in the Joe Rogan podcast linked by @Keegan, where you hear some technicians talking and Snowden says "The FBI just joined us".

      There's a great part in the Joe Rogan podcast linked by @Keegan, where you hear some technicians talking and Snowden says "The FBI just joined us".

      5 votes
      1. Keegan
        Link Parent
        That part was especially funny to me because it made me realize that Snowden has been keeping up with memes. It's the "FBI has joined the chat" meme.

        That part was especially funny to me because it made me realize that Snowden has been keeping up with memes. It's the "FBI has joined the chat" meme.

        4 votes
  7. freestylesno
    Link
    He did somethingi think is very American and is a patriot and I'm glad he did it. At the same time he did do something against the American government that weakened the security of America. It is...

    He did somethingi think is very American and is a patriot and I'm glad he did it. At the same time he did do something against the American government that weakened the security of America. It is far from a black and white issue.

    2 votes
  8. [5]
    skybrian
    Link
    I think he is who he says he is, and the Internet changed for the better due to security improvements since then. (Still a long way to go, though.) If there was lasting damage due to the leaks,...

    I think he is who he says he is, and the Internet changed for the better due to security improvements since then. (Still a long way to go, though.) If there was lasting damage due to the leaks, it's not obvious.

    I'm conflicted about leaks in general. I have sympathy for the notion that leaks can be damaging and you can't run an effective organization where there's a lot of leaking going on. I don't assume whistleblowers are always right. But sometimes they are?

    While it's uncomfortable, I would guess that most people probably aren't harmed by NSA snooping. If they don't act on what they see and don't reveal it to anyone, does it do damage? There are special cases (journalists, activists) that you have to worry about.

    1. [2]
      Karunamon
      Link Parent
      The chilling effect caused by knowing you're being watched is more than enough harm. And besides, that's not the right lens to be looking at this through. The right question is not "is this a good...

      I would guess that most people probably aren't harmed by NSA snooping.

      The chilling effect caused by knowing you're being watched is more than enough harm. And besides, that's not the right lens to be looking at this through. The right question is not "is this a good thing?", rather, it's "do they have the right to do this?"

      5 votes
      1. skybrian
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        What data do we have on this effect? For some people it might mean installing Signal, which doesn't seem like a bad result? I see the effect of beefing up security as a good result of the Snowden...

        What data do we have on this effect? For some people it might mean installing Signal, which doesn't seem like a bad result?

        I see the effect of beefing up security as a good result of the Snowden leak. Maybe knowing what's going on has bad effects, but I still think it's better to know.

        1 vote
    2. [2]
      teaearlgraycold
      Link Parent
      But what good does it do people?

      I would guess that most people probably aren't harmed by NSA snooping. If they don't act on what they see and don't reveal it to anyone, does it do damage?

      But what good does it do people?

      2 votes
      1. skybrian
        Link Parent
        Yeah, I don't know if it does any good. It seems hard to evaluate the performance of secretive organizations?

        Yeah, I don't know if it does any good. It seems hard to evaluate the performance of secretive organizations?